Geocaching = Public Lewdness

[+GeoCraig]

I was visiting Orange County CA and decided to get a couple of quick caches. Went to Santiago Park cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=19459, logged the cache and then returned to my car. On the way back, I was stopped by a Park Ranger, handcuffed, and was accused of public lewdness. The cop couldn't understand what I would be doing in the bushes that wasn't illegal. It took 30 minutes of explaining what Geocaching is and then a visit to the cache, still in cuffs, before he believed me and let me go. Not a fun way to go caching.

[+sbell111]

Somebody needs to take a closer look at the Bill of Rights.

[+mph6563]

Man, I bet district attorneys just love cops who arrest people with zero evidence of wrongdoing.

[+georgeandmary]

Sound like it's a crusing park for the locals who are to cheap to get a hotel room for they're random sexual encounters.

 

I sympathize with the Ranger wishing to clean up the park but the whole handcuff thing seems to take it too far.

 

There are a couple of similar parks in this area. It's another thing I learned from geocacing. I've heard about the places but now I know where those places are. It's a shame.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[MACpa]

If you feel you were mistreated you should have complained to the rangers Boss first then here. If you say nothing to anyone that matters we are wasting our time. Go back to the park office in person and ask for a supervisor and calmly explain what happened and when.

It sounds like you ran into a ranger that flunked out of the police accademy and could not get a job as a prison guard.

[umc]

I don't understand how they 'caught' you. Where they following you around or did someone else spot you or what? Please give more detail.

 

Thanks

 

[+bigredmed]

The issue of these other activities may well crunch our hobby. Nebraska's first geocache is located in a park that is used rampantly for this type of random sexual encounter. While I was hunting for it, my wife counted three men who pulled up and began to engage in this stuff.

 

It would be sad to see our venerated first cache be archived because of this.

 

With regard to your situation, I am a pretty strict law and order man, but placing you under arrest without actually seeing you do something sounds like either you were doing something that looked like something else (placing a PVC cache tube back in its place looks like a bomb being placed), or the cop was in error. Either way, you should pursue this with either your city's internal review system or the civilian police adminstration. Either you need to know what it was that you did to get into trouble or the cop needs to know what proper procedure means.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

[umc]

You know the bomb/cache thing has come up before, just recently and I am still trying to figure out why anyone would think that someone else would place a bomb in the middle of the woods. What could possibly gained from that, blow up a few worms and maybe a squirrel that happened by?

 

[+Planet]

Sounds to me like perhaps they thought you were squatting to take a dump. That can be considered public lewdness as well as a sexual act can. But if they don't have the "evidence" to begin with there should have been no attempt to arrest.

I don't think it could have been the "bomb" thing. That's not lewd or crude.

 

Can I say "take a dump" here? Or would that be lewd?

 

Cache you later,

Planet

[Lyra]

quote:

---

 

Can I say "take a dump" here? Or would that be lewd?

 

Cache you later,

Planet

---

 

You're under arrest!

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[Lyra]

quote:

---

 

Can I say "take a dump" here? Or would that be lewd?

 

Cache you later,

Planet

---

 

You're under arrest!

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[+eroyd]

Sounds like I'm in BIG trouble.

[+Criminal]

Well, if that sort of thing is going on at that park, there are probably plenty of places to stuff a travel bug........

 

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

Throw your jelly out the window; let the dog-gone shack burn down.

**Huddie Ledbetter**

[+Criminal]

Well, if that sort of thing is going on at that park, there are probably plenty of places to stuff a travel bug........

 

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

Throw your jelly out the window; let the dog-gone shack burn down.

**Huddie Ledbetter**

[+eroyd]

I can't understand why relieving ones self behind the bushes, asumingly in a wilderness park is considered 'lewdness'. "Dropping a Duce" on the center of the highway line might be.

[Eeyore and Shadow]

Lewdness is a moralitly issue to begin with.

Modern morality is outrageous. Soon enough it will be considered lewd for the the wildlife to procreate or "drop a deuce"

 

I like that phrase!!!!

 

It took a GPS to get me away from technology.

[Eeyore and Shadow]

Lewdness is a moralitly issue to begin with.

Modern morality is outrageous. Soon enough it will be considered lewd for the the wildlife to procreate or "drop a deuce"

 

I like that phrase!!!!

 

It took a GPS to get me away from technology.

[+GeoCraig]

This is a suburban park with a dry wash on the north side of it. The cache was hidden in the bushes along the side of the creek. The ranger accused me of masturbating in a public place. Said he and a father playing in the park with his children observed me. All I was doing was writing an entry in the logbook. Apparently, this park is a meetingplace for some low-lifes.

[Lyra]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeoCraig:

This is a suburban park with a dry wash on the north side of it. The cache was hidden in the bushes along the side of the creek. The ranger accused me of masturbating in a public place. Said he and a father playing in the park with his children observed me. All I was doing was writing an entry in the logbook. Apparently, this park is a meetingplace for some low-lifes.

---

 

In order for him to arrest you, he would have to have probable cause to do so. "Probable cause" means that he has reason to believe that you have committed a crime. In order for it to be public lewdness, it would have to have been committed in a place open to the public and visible to others (remember the Pee Wee Herman case?). There is case law (at least here in Virginia) that establishes that such an arrest cannot be predicated merely upon the information of another, since the officer himself would have to observe behavior of a suspicious nature that would suggest that you committed the crime.

 

Virginia, however, has a nifty statute for us criminal defense attorneys ( ) that states that an officer cannot make a warrantless arrest on a misdemeanor charge (with a few exceptions for certain crimes) committed "outside of his presence".

 

My belief, based upon what you've posted, is that he did not have sufficient probable cause to arrest you, or even to detain you. If you'd actually been charged, I'd be champing at the bit to take your case.

 

The other posts here are pretty much on point. If that had happened to me, I'd be a might bit pissed off and would complain, though I think the only thing that would come of it (no pun) is that the officer would get a reprimand, if even that.

 

Um, at the risk of making a joke at your expense, might I suggest to everyone that GeoCraig receive the honorary nickname, well intended toward martyrdom for the cause of geocaching, of GeoPeeWee?

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[Lyra]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeoCraig:

This is a suburban park with a dry wash on the north side of it. The cache was hidden in the bushes along the side of the creek. The ranger accused me of masturbating in a public place. Said he and a father playing in the park with his children observed me. All I was doing was writing an entry in the logbook. Apparently, this park is a meetingplace for some low-lifes.

---

 

In order for him to arrest you, he would have to have probable cause to do so. "Probable cause" means that he has reason to believe that you have committed a crime. In order for it to be public lewdness, it would have to have been committed in a place open to the public and visible to others (remember the Pee Wee Herman case?). There is case law (at least here in Virginia) that establishes that such an arrest cannot be predicated merely upon the information of another, since the officer himself would have to observe behavior of a suspicious nature that would suggest that you committed the crime.

 

Virginia, however, has a nifty statute for us criminal defense attorneys ( ) that states that an officer cannot make a warrantless arrest on a misdemeanor charge (with a few exceptions for certain crimes) committed "outside of his presence".

 

My belief, based upon what you've posted, is that he did not have sufficient probable cause to arrest you, or even to detain you. If you'd actually been charged, I'd be champing at the bit to take your case.

 

The other posts here are pretty much on point. If that had happened to me, I'd be a might bit pissed off and would complain, though I think the only thing that would come of it (no pun) is that the officer would get a reprimand, if even that.

 

Um, at the risk of making a joke at your expense, might I suggest to everyone that GeoCraig receive the honorary nickname, well intended toward martyrdom for the cause of geocaching, of GeoPeeWee?

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[+GeoCraig]

I am in the process of filing a complaint with the park ranger's sergeant. I'll let you know how it comes out.

[fig]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeoCraig:

This is a suburban park with a dry wash on the north side of it. The cache was hidden in the bushes along the side of the creek. The ranger accused me of masturbating in a public place. Said he and a father playing in the park with his children observed me. All I was doing was writing an entry in the logbook. Apparently, this park is a meetingplace for some low-lifes.

---

Was the logbook sticky???

 

Sorry. Hahaha...

Fig

[umc]

I hate sticky log books

 

 

Oooops

 

Wrong thread

 

[umc]

I hate sticky log books

 

 

Oooops

 

Wrong thread

 

[cappd]

How long were you writing in that log book for the father to have time to notify the ranger and the ranger to respond? Did you have the geocache page with you for hints and to use as proof?

 

We, as a family, have biked past two young guys kissing at a park. We were even on the family side of the lake when this happened! That park is notorious for gay play by males and females. ( for the girls!) Seems most parks in the area are used for this kind activity. It made for a delicate conversation at the dinner table a few nights later when the kids finally broached the subject. We just hope we never run into anything more explicit.

 

In closing......wonder if they ever wash those handcuffs! EWWWWWWWWWWWW!

[cappd]

How long were you writing in that log book for the father to have time to notify the ranger and the ranger to respond? Did you have the geocache page with you for hints and to use as proof?

 

We, as a family, have biked past two young guys kissing at a park. We were even on the family side of the lake when this happened! That park is notorious for gay play by males and females. ( for the girls!) Seems most parks in the area are used for this kind activity. It made for a delicate conversation at the dinner table a few nights later when the kids finally broached the subject. We just hope we never run into anything more explicit.

 

In closing......wonder if they ever wash those handcuffs! EWWWWWWWWWWWW!

[+eroyd]

Yeh, I'm dreading having to talk to my kids about "doggy dancing".

 

I'm gone. Have a nice weekend everyone.

[+LarsThorwald]

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroyd:

Yeh, I'm dreading having to talk to my kids about "doggy dancing".

---

 

I'd start by considering your choice of words a bit more carefully!

 

Charlie

"One should never begin a journey by heading in the wrong direction."

[umc]

Just tell them that its wrong and that will be that.

 

[magellan315]

I think filing a complaint is a very good idea, if and this parent saw you masturbating they should have arrested you on the spot. Catching you in the act. I'd love to see if the father actually saw something or if the ranger was embellishing. The hand cuffs were clearly overkill and if he had you in custody for 30 minutes why wasn't a supervisor/police called in. Surely he would have radioded for back up as required by policy. Something does not sound right.

Even if he only gets a reprimand they will be more carefull about following procedure in the future.

[+Mr. Vic]

Man, I've heard of signature items, but....

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

-Mark

 

Will cache for food

[+Mr. Vic]

Man, I've heard of signature items, but....

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

-Mark

 

Will cache for food

[+Dekaner]

Did the cache owner ask permission before placing the cache in this park?

 

Another prime example of why it's good to ask -first-. The ranger would have known and perhaps left you alone. Or maybe they already knew about the problem in that section of the park and would have asked you to move to another area?

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

[+OzzieSan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dekaner:

Did the cache owner ask permission before placing the cache in this park?

 

Another prime example of why it's good to ask -first-. The ranger would have known and perhaps left you alone. Or maybe they already knew about the problem in that section of the park and would have asked you to move to another area?

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

---

 

Had he of been taking pictures and writing notes in a log book would he need ask first?

[+Dekaner]

Sorry, think we had a miscommunication here. The cacher doesn't need to ask first, the cache owner does. (I got a little excited reading the logs from another thread, can you tell?)

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

[boreal jeff & sons]

I'm going to go against the grain here and state that the Ranger was just doing his job. Maybe a little too finatical about it, but it is their job to ensure the public safety (morality). There was no physical abuse and as soon as he learnt the real story he released the guy. The handcuffs are to protect him/her. I would of thanked the guy for doing his job. How many other cops/rangers/public servants would of been too busy drinking coffee. I've seen the results when these people just don't give a dam!

 

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

[+Centaur]

quote:

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public safety (morality)

---

 

Morality Police?

[+EraSeek]

quote:

---

Originally posted by boreal jeff & sons:

I'm going to go against the grain here and state that the Ranger was just doing his job. Maybe a little too finatical about it, but it is their job to ensure the public safety (morality). There was no physical abuse and as soon as he learnt the real story he released the guy. The handcuffs are to protect him/her. I would of thanked the guy for doing his job. How many other cops/rangers/public servants would of been too busy drinking coffee. I've seen the results when these people just don't give a dam!

 

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

---

 

Good point! You are right. I agree.

 

[+Acc-Risk and Snarflax]

quote:

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Originally posted by boreal jeff & sons:

I'm going to go against the grain here and state that the Ranger was just doing his job.

---

 

Bingo... Although he may have gone a little too far... I'd prefer that to them looking the other way... And considering the story and original post, I think his actions were justified...

 

Sounds like your Rangers do a better job than our local police...

 

Contents Under Pressure...

[+bigredmed]

quote:

---

Originally posted by umc:

You know the bomb/cache thing has come up before, just recently and I am still trying to figure out why anyone would think that someone else would place a bomb in the middle of the woods. What could possibly gained from that, blow up a few worms and maybe a squirrel that happened by?

 

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/

---

I found a geocache here in Omaha that was hidden inside the boxbeam truss of a pedestrian footbridge. A PVC tube with a metal wire connecting it to the bridge to discourage theft. I imagine that this would have a law enforcement official reaching for the radio to call the bomb guys. We are not always on the side of the angels. Some of us do things that can be honestly seen as threatening.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

[+GypsyMoth]

Good luck with your complaint, GeoCraig--and just be glad you don't live in Nevada where a judge defined "probable cause" as...basically whatever the police officer thinks it is...Not necessarily evidence sufficient to convict and *even* seemining innocent (!) actions--which is how a guy dribbling a basketball down the street got shot by a local gendarme.

 

Just doing his job? Sorry! I think a citizen should be confident he will not be arrested walking in the park, crossing the street or returning to a hotel room (don't even get me started on the "solicitation" case I served as a juror for).

 

But if you're in Vegas, don't joke about you-know-what and money...

 

Judy

 

Just don't let Kirk show you what he affectionately calls the 'Captain's Log'

[+Dan_Edwards]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Acceptable Risk:

quote:

---

Originally posted by boreal jeff & sons:

I'm going to go against the grain here and state that the Ranger was just doing his job.

---

 

Bingo... Although he may have gone a little too far... I'd prefer that to them looking the other way... And considering the story and original post, I think his actions were justified...

 

Sounds like your Rangers do a better job than our local police...

 

http://www.acceptable-risk.com/images/geosig.jpg

Contents Under Pressure...

---

 

Well I would say that he went more then a little too far. If he has seen what he said he saw so clearly, then why bother listening about the Geocaching story. Even if the log book was signed, then the ranger still saw the guy commiting the act along with one other witness. What has me burned up about this is that he obviously did not see anything and someone in cuffs just on the word of what one other person said.

 

That said, I do think that there was reason to ask and find more about what was going on. That process should have been cleared up in 5-10 minutes tops.

 

A = A

[+Greenjeens]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeoCraig:

On the way back, I was stopped by a Park Ranger, handcuffed, and was accused of public lewdness. The cop couldn't understand what I would be doing in the bushes that wasn't illegal.

---

 

I was falsely ID'd by an officer for car theft and arrested in my front yard. Cops tend to look for anyone handy, especially when they get pumped up and then make mistakes.

When police saw a dozen bindles, full of brown powder on my desk, which were Chinese Herb concentrates from my acupuncturist, it went from bad to worse:-(

The sitution was a combo of "Fugitive" and "Mignight Express."

All charges were quickly dropped, but the psychological effect of being falsely accused, not believed and then jailed, lasted a long time.

Now the acupuncturist MUST put his card in with the herb powders! I NEVER will go out of the house to help law enforcement open a gate.

Suspect this kind of thing happens to people of color often.

 

Don't expect an apology, it's not going to happen, they were just doing their job. Maybe some other guy was in the bushes nearby. I bet 99% of men in the bushes in that park are up to mischief. Usually, if it looks like a duck.....

 

Would advise the cache owner to move the cache, a Gay cruising park may not be the best location.

Or... this might be an opportunity to inform the rangers about the cache. Taking an active role in interacting with the local authorities, under more favorable circumstances, might help you get past the perceived personal violation and false accusation.

Good luck, remember it was nothing personal, just being in the wrong place.

[+briansnat]

quote:

---

I'm going to go against the grain here and state that the Ranger was just doing his job.

---

No, his job would have been to respond to the scene and question the suspect. He should not have detained him without any evidence that a crime had been commited, or if there was a crime that there was some certainty that he was the the perp.

 

Without having viewed the incident himself, he'd have to have the "witness" on hand to ID the alleged perpitrator in order to have cause to detain him. To detain and handcuff a person simply because they were walking out of the woods in an area where a father reported someone acting lewedly is not good policework.

 

I think this guy has good reason to lodge a complaint.

[fig]

How about handcuffing the accuser, then going after the accused, and then when it's all cleared up, or the motions have been through, uncuff whoever needs it. I am not too comfortable with what seems like total unaccountability for people accusing others of wrongdoing. If you want to get me started, bring up people like Child Protective Services. My ex-wife got in a major fight with some supposed friends. Next thing we know, CPS is investigating a claim that we were abusing our children. Now I realize that CPS has their role, and do their job, but what gets me is total anonymity to make a claim. What happened to being able to face your accuser? We were pretty sure who made the false claim, but it's impossible to find out. I think that if you make a false claim, you should be held accountable.

I'll go relax for a while.

Fig

[+Sissy-n-CR]

If he and the father were able to observe you, then why didn't the ranger come right over right then?

 

This brings up some points that I've learned really quickly in the short time I've been doing this:

 

- go further into the woods to log in.

 

- keep a look out for people who might be watching you.

 

- if you can, take a buddy. I generally keep watch as Sissy logs in.

 

and last, but not least, don't hunker over and sign the log book against your upper thigh!

 

CR

[+Sissy-n-CR]

If he and the father were able to observe you, then why didn't the ranger come right over right then?

 

This brings up some points that I've learned really quickly in the short time I've been doing this:

 

- go further into the woods to log in.

 

- keep a look out for people who might be watching you.

 

- if you can, take a buddy. I generally keep watch as Sissy logs in.

 

and last, but not least, don't hunker over and sign the log book against your upper thigh!

 

CR

[JohnyReb]

As a proud member of People Against Logbook Masterbating (PALM for short), I applaude the ranger for his fast action and firm grip of the potentially explosive situation.

[JohnyReb]

As a proud member of People Against Logbook Masterbating (PALM for short), I applaude the ranger for his fast action and firm grip of the potentially explosive situation.

[Lyra]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JOHNYREB:

As a proud member of People Against Logbook Masterbating (PALM for short), I applaude the ranger for his fast action and firm grip of the potentially explosive situation.

---

 

I think you're just shooting off at the mouth, there, Reb!

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!