Should a cache be placed where a fee must be paid to reach it??

July 11, 2002

I just got back from trying to access cache number GC6F1C. The description stated that it was in Twin Lakes campground. That is a National forest campground here in N. central PA. When I got there there was a $5 per car fee to get in. I turned around and left although the GPS said I was .35 miles from the cache. This fee was not noted anywhere in the cache description. They were still collecting this fee at 7:15 PM !! I was not going to pay $5 at the end of the day for what was going to be a 1 hr hike at most.

I pay lots of user fees when I'm going to be at a facility and using it but this one just irked me. It was a wasted hour in the car.

July 11, 2002

IMO, a required fee should be listed on the cache page. Since it isn't, I would log it as a note and mention the $5 fee for future hunters.

3.5k · July 11, 2002

Don't blame the cache hider, all sorts of places that used to be open and free to the public (thru your taxes) are now assessing user fees on top of your taxes due to the budget crunch. It is rather irritating to have to fork over more money antime you want enjoy nature. Most of the fees are directed at car use however, so if possible, leave the car elsewhere and walk in.

The fee may not have been in effect when the cache was posted.

If you think others should know, post a note on the page, or ask the hider to do so.

"The quality of mercy is not strained;

It dropeth as the gentle rain from heaven,

upon the place beneath.

It is twice blessed;

It blesseth him that giveth and him that takes."

July 11, 2002

I did put it as note on the cache and in this case the cache owner had to know about it because it was placed this week.

9.1k · July 11, 2002

I would agree that any access fees ought to be disclosed on the cache page, and I'm sorry your hunt was interrupted by one of those obnoxious booths in the middle of the road.

This cache, Twin Lakes Overlook, was just placed on July 1st. Often times with a new cache, early finders will be able to offer helpful suggestions for improving the description, parking coordinates, inaccuracy in cache coordinates, etc.

It seemed to me a bit harsh of you to post a request to archive the cache. Usually that option is only exercised after there has been no response from the owner? As others have suggested, I would have posted a note, or just sent an e-mail.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

"Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house."

[This message was edited by The Leprechauns on July 11, 2002 at 07:52 PM.]

38.2k · July 11, 2002

I have no problem with placing a cache where an entry fee is charged. The cache owner should however mention this on the page. In their defense however, sometimes a cache is placed in the off season and they're not aware of a fee charged during the summer months.

Also, sometimes there is a way to avoid paying the fee (an alternate approach) and a good cache owner will provide this info as well.

July 11, 2002

I went to one cache in a park that charged $3.00 per car. I parked outside and walked in for free. The cache was missing anyway.

3.5k · July 11, 2002

I totally agree with Mr Leprechauns(did I get that right?)...

''Often times with a new cache, early finders will be able to offer helpful suggestions for improving the description, parking coordinates, inaccuracy in cache coordinates, etc. Did you send an e-mail to the cache owner?

It seemed to me a bit harsh to post a request to archive the cache''

I've posted caches where a permit was required to park (though most people ignore it). I didn't even think to put it on the page as how I have one of those stinky permits. After someone mentioned it, it occured to me to place it on the page. Let's all try and be helpfull to each other and not assume the worst.

"The quality of mercy is not strained;

It dropeth as the gentle rain from heaven,

upon the place beneath.

It is twice blessed;

It blesseth him that giveth and him that takes."

[This message was edited by EraSeek on July 11, 2002 at 09:31 PM.]

July 12, 2002

Where did I ask for it to be archived??

5k · July 12, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by headmj:
Where did I ask for it to be archived??

Head, your log for that cache has a

next to it which indicates that you selected "Cache shoud be archived" from the list of choices when you submitted your log.

If this was unintentional, simply go to the cache page, click on the "[edit]" link for your log, and change your log to a "Counldn't find it" or a "Post a note."

Jamie

July 12, 2002

Although it would be best if the placer knows about it to mention the fee, most people realize that that many parks, national forests, etc. do charge a fee. Also, it is possible that it was a free area at the time it was placed. This just happened to me. When I placed the cache, there was no entry fee. When I went to check on it last week, they had just begun to charge a $2.00 entry fee in the last few days. I noted this on the cache page, but if anybody had gone after it between the time they had started charging and I went to check on it, it would just have to be your decision whether it's worth it. Personally, if just .35 miles and 5 bucks was separating me from a cache, Mr. Lincoln would be gone in a heartbeat.

Ever notice everybody is willing to give THEIR 2 cents worth but only offer a penny for YOUR thoughts?

July 12, 2002

I have no problem with it. Also note the profile for the hiders 0/1. I am willing to bet the info on the access fee was just overlooked. If I drove an hour to just do a cache I would have paid the money found the cache and shot some pictures. But thats just me.

July 12, 2002

I have no problem with it. Also note the profile for the hiders 0/1. I am willing to bet the info on the access fee was just overlooked. If I drove an hour to just do a cache I would have paid the money found the cache and shot some pictures. But thats just me.

July 12, 2002

I am the owner of the "Twin Lakes Overlook" cache. I placed the cache when we were camping. We rented the pavilion below the breast of the dam. Hence I parked in the first parking lot going up the road, before you get to the fee booth. There is no fee at the first parking lot. When I placed the cache, we walked from the pavilion. It took about 45 minutes to walk to the cache location.

I wasn't aware that fees had to be disclosed. Fees seem to be so commonplace that I would just consider them another expense. I read the hiding a cache tutorial and didn't see any mention of fee reporting.

I have since edited the cache page with mention of the fees and parking areas. I hope this helps everyone from now on.

Next time that you record a cache, don't forget to include the price of the gas and wear and tear on you hiking boots.

July 12, 2002

Fees are commonplace - regionally. Nationally they tend to be irregular at best. I am not in any dispute over the current arguement, but will rather make a case for general guidelines supporting the disclosure of fees.

Almost every State Park in Texas charges a fee. Those fees can vary from $2 a person to $10 a car. That's a big difference when you're trying to figure out how much cache you'll need to take with you. Sometimes carrying a 20 dollar bill won't cut it either, such as when the ranger offices here in Texas close. Exact change is required, and you have to fill out a slip, rip off a receipt for the car, and deposit the cash in an "Iron Ranger" of sorts.

Now, suppose you live in the land of free parks for all. You decide to go caching in Texas, and being the frugal person you are, don't pack any cash. After all, you have a full tank of gas, your geotrinkets and you won't have to pay to access the park, right?

A simple fee schedule on the listing should alleviate this potential for frustration which can be so easily prepared for but can be such a burden if unexpected.

But the title of this thread is "Should a cache be placed where a fee must be paid to reach it??" To that, I say as long as it isn't prohibited caching land (National Parks, etc), there is no reason they shouldn't be placed in such places.

---------------

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

20.7k · July 12, 2002

I completely agree with Ventureforth.

I have hunted many caches in fee areas. There is nothing wrong with them, but it helps for the fees to be fully disclosed on the cache page so I will bring the appropriate cache, umm cash.

July 12, 2002

I don't mind, as long as (a) it's disclosed in the cache page and ( the area has some redeeming feature other than the cache if the fee is more than a few dollars.

I went to one cache where the fee was posted on the cache page as $3 per person, but once I got there I found out that if you were from out of the county (I was) it was $6 per person. That, coupled with the fact is was a rainy day made me skip it and move on to another one. I'll come back on a nice sunny day with one of the kids and get my $ worth.

July 12, 2002

I don't mind, as long as (a) it's disclosed in the cache page and ( the area has some redeeming feature other than the cache if the fee is more than a few dollars.

I went to one cache where the fee was posted on the cache page as $3 per person, but once I got there I found out that if you were from out of the county (I was) it was $6 per person. That, coupled with the fact is was a rainy day made me skip it and move on to another one. I'll come back on a nice sunny day with one of the kids and get my $ worth.

July 12, 2002

In addition to any required fees, a cache page should also list if there are restrictive access hours. Two months ago, I was hunting a cache where there was a small fee, which was annoying but I would have paid. The problem was that the location holding the cache closes at 4:30pm and I went after work.

July 12, 2002

i have no problem with caches being placed in areas where fees are charged. its a part of life -- someone has to pay to maintain the park, use taxes seem very fair to me -- a general tax doesn't always cover what is needed.

i can also understand a cacher not mentioning the fee in a description --they may not have been aware of the fee (there are so many parks, in NYS at least, where there are fees during certain seasons or during certain times of day), they may have a season pass(making it easy to forget there is a fee at all) -- or they may have been so excited to place the cache -- that they just forgot to mention it!

i've know cachers to post fee schedules with what hours and what times or year/day fees are charged -- it was great information! thanks!

BUT really, this sport is about using your energy to play in the woods & find something that someone put out there so you could have a good time -- seems silly to waste that energy on little things that won't matter tomorrow

July 12, 2002

i have no problem with caches being placed in areas where fees are charged. its a part of life -- someone has to pay to maintain the park, use taxes seem very fair to me -- a general tax doesn't always cover what is needed.

i can also understand a cacher not mentioning the fee in a description --they may not have been aware of the fee (there are so many parks, in NYS at least, where there are fees during certain seasons or during certain times of day), they may have a season pass(making it easy to forget there is a fee at all) -- or they may have been so excited to place the cache -- that they just forgot to mention it!

i've know cachers to post fee schedules with what hours and what times or year/day fees are charged -- it was great information! thanks!

BUT really, this sport is about using your energy to play in the woods & find something that someone put out there so you could have a good time -- seems silly to waste that energy on little things that won't matter tomorrow

3.4k · July 12, 2002

If there is a fee, then mentioning it upfront would be a good idea, but ultimately, it is up to the cache hunter to decide if he or she wants to pay it on arrival if it wasn't noted before. Nothing to get ones shorts in a wad about.

July 12, 2002

I didn't even think about it, but This Cache is in a park with a $4.00 parking fee. If I hadn't happened to have been in the park for another reason anyway, discoverign the fee would have annoyed me. I'll have to go edit my log to mention the fee.

As some else mentioned, with a bit of warning, I could have parked outside and walked or biked in for free.

3.1k · July 12, 2002

I don't mind paying a fee but it's good to read about it before you head off.

Are their caches in Disneyland? That might make up for putting up with long lines if we had a cache to look for in there too.

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

July 12, 2002

There's a whole heap o' caches at the Orlando theme parks (Disney, Universal, Sea World, etc.).

July 12, 2002

Yep, I pushed the wrong button. Meant to push the note button.

July 12, 2002

but went to one recently where the fee wasn't mentioned. This was a county park (a nice enough park but nothing spectacular) and it charged $2 per person. For families, this can get a little expensive. By comparison, the state parks (bigger and more to do) charge $3 per car or you can get the annual pass for around $20 that gets you into all state parks. What was particularly annoying is that we specifically avoided a geocache in another county park that day because we knew it charged a per person fee. Guess it's now standard for all parks in this particular county. If we're going for the day, maybe we'd pay it. But with a family of five, it's not worth it if we're only going long enough to find a geocache.

I'm working on setting up a multi-cache and have ruled out one park I considered because of the $2 per car entry fee. It's an O.K. park but there are others just as nice that are free.

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

July 13, 2002

search for nearest caches and hit to or three while your up there. My dad and I recently went up into the uintas and payed five dollars to get into the place. We were going to go to about 5 caches and decided to go to the nearest one. We ended up on a 4 wheeler trail for about 16 miles over this mountain and ended up right next to a main road where the cache was and ended up where we didn't even have to pay or go over that stinkin mountain. It's ok, I just need to get some topo maps, this base map just wasn't cutting it.

July 13, 2002

There are two right now in Busch Gardens here in Tampa. I haven't attempted them yet, spend most of my time in that park on Montu!!

"I am umbilically connected to the temperate zone. It's brought me life. It's brought me love, I never have outgrown"----J. Buffett

July 13, 2002

Fees usually mean that the area is a pretty nice place to visit and may be worth the two or so bucks whether you find the cache or not.

2.9k · July 14, 2002

At the beginning of this year, I paid $15 for Huron Clinton Metroparks pass, and paid $20 for Michigan State parks pass. So now I can go anywhere without stopping at any gate.

My home page about GPS units and information

July 14, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GOT GPS?:
At the beginning of this year, I paid $15 for Huron Clinton Metroparks pass, and paid $20 for Michigan State parks pass. So now I can go anywhere without stopping at any gate.

http://www2.arnes.si/~inovacije/animacije/5_Rubik.gif http://members.aol.com/geoffr524/myhomepage/howto.html

And if you find Bill and Gary's Excellent Adventure cache, you get entered into a drawing for a free annual pass for next year in the Metro parks. Their giving away six of them,along with a golf outing for four.

July 14, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GOT GPS?:
At the beginning of this year, I paid $15 for Huron Clinton Metroparks pass, and paid $20 for Michigan State parks pass. So now I can go anywhere without stopping at any gate.

http://www2.arnes.si/~inovacije/animacije/5_Rubik.gif http://members.aol.com/geoffr524/myhomepage/howto.html

And if you find Bill and Gary's Excellent Adventure cache, you get entered into a drawing for a free annual pass for next year in the Metro parks. Their giving away six of them,along with a golf outing for four.

July 14, 2002

Parking fees are different.

Many urban caches are in areas where you either need to park in an hourly garage, or dance the dance of the quarter meter. I wouldn't expect people to declare these sorts of expenses.

If the rural park pay booth, is setup in a way that you simply can't avoid paying the entrance fee without walking an unreasonable distance. This information, if known in advance, should be available.

Much like listing access to restrooms or if dogs, bicycles, majicman, or even camping is allowed.

July 14, 2002

Pay the parking fee. That fee goes towards the upkeep of that particular park. If they can use my money to rebuild a trail, fix a bridge, pick up litter, whatever! - then I'll happily pay it.

Now that I've had my rant, just email the cache owner and ask him/her to put a note about the fee in the cache description and we can all get back to the more important things in life.

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

July 14, 2002

No way we shoud pay to get a cach. We alredy pade for the GPS.

Bob )robert) Loggertl

July 14, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BobLog:
No way we shoud pay to get a cach. We alredy pade for the GPS.

Bob )robert) Loggertl

No way we should pay for the gas. We already paid for the car.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

July 14, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BobLog:
No way we shoud pay to get a cach. We alredy pade for the GPS.

Bob )robert) Loggertl

No way we should pay for the gas. We already paid for the car.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Dekaner:
Pay the parking fee. That fee goes towards the upkeep of that particular park. If they can use my money to rebuild a trail, fix a bridge, pick up litter, whatever! - then I'll happily pay it.

Now that I've had my rant, just email the cache owner and ask him/her to put a note about the fee in the cache description and we can all get back to the more important things in life.

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

Hey, just make a donation, you don't even have go to the park.

But that's not the point.

I also won't pay the toll for the Outerbridge to go 4 miles and hit the Staten Island caches, unless I have other things to do in Staten Island.

September 9, 2002

Should a cache be placed where a fee must be paid to reach it?? Yes, why not, noone said that you have to find all the caches. If someone is that addicted to caching, it's cheeper to buy a big ticket park (like Disney) then to sit under 'professional help'.

3k · September 9, 2002

I mentioned in another thread that CT has state park fees but also offers a season pass for $35.00 and also a life use pass for seniors to get in for free for life. Try going to your state's Department of Environmental Protection website and checking there for their parks to see if they also offer a season pass. They should also have a link to their parks and fees. If you cache a lot it's probably more than worth it. If you don't know the link try a www.google.com and type in "your state DEP" and see what comes up. That's how I found it.

Cache you later,

Planet

2.6k · September 9, 2002

It's nice if they disclose it, but I don't expect anyone to give me anything more than the coordinates.

There are ways around fees, walk in if you must. Talk to the ranger and tell them you're just checking out the area and will only be a short time. May will let you cruise in for a short time, especially late in the day.

California has many iron rangers... just a self registration drop box. Sometimes I chance it, somtimes I pay it. It's my gamble.

It's not like the fees go straight to the park. The go to the general fund and then are later budgeted to the park.

george

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

3k · September 9, 2002

I think if a fee is required to access an area, it should be disclosed in the cache description ... there's no requirement that you read anything more than the coordinates, George.

quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

There are ways around fees, walk in if you must. Talk to the ranger and tell them you're just checking out the area and will only be a short time.

That's dishonest. Why, on the grand scale of morally-reprehensible acts, it's way worse than falsely claiming "finds" by posting faked photos. Seeking a cache is a definite "use of the area."

3k · September 9, 2002

I think if a fee is required to access an area, it should be disclosed in the cache description ... there's no requirement that you read anything more than the coordinates, George.

quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

There are ways around fees, walk in if you must. Talk to the ranger and tell them you're just checking out the area and will only be a short time.

That's dishonest. Why, on the grand scale of morally-reprehensible acts, it's way worse than falsely claiming "finds" by posting faked photos. Seeking a cache is a definite "use of the area."

September 9, 2002

Speaking as one who rarely carries more than $10 cash, I'd appreciate knowing before I left if there was a fee so I could still afford to grab burgers on the way home from caching.

But I then again, I'm one who likes to read every post, every clue, and see every map and satellite image for a cache before I take the time, effort, and expense of going after it.

Daddy says money don't grow on trees!

2.6k · September 9, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

That's dishonest. Why, on the grand scale of morally-reprehensible acts, it's _way_ worse than falsely claiming "finds" by posting faked photos. Seeking a cache is a definite "use of the area."

I consider it my little protest against bloated govermnet budgets and runaway spending. There's no tea to throw in the harbor so I have to fight the power in little ways.

george

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

2.6k · September 9, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

That's dishonest. Why, on the grand scale of morally-reprehensible acts, it's _way_ worse than falsely claiming "finds" by posting faked photos. Seeking a cache is a definite "use of the area."

I consider it my little protest against bloated govermnet budgets and runaway spending. There's no tea to throw in the harbor so I have to fight the power in little ways.

george

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

September 9, 2002

I have no problem with having to pay a fee to get into a park to cache. In fact, one of my favorite caches ever was in a park that you had to pay to get into. That said, the fee should be disclosed on the page. I once drove almost an hour to a cache site only to find I had to pay to get in, I tried scraping together the change in my car but was $.50 short. The ranger would not take what I had, would not accept a check, could not take CC's, and would not take my word that I would mail the difference. I usually live in a cash free world and never have paper money with me. This was never a problem until I started caching, now I always carry a bunch of singles in my pack when caching, just in case (alot of the parks here have the honor boxes).

1.4k · September 9, 2002

I agree with most of the posts here. Mentioning the fees on the cache page is a good idea, but should not be **REQUIRED**. I have a multi-cache in the Fort Worth Zoo, and I provide a link to the Zoo's website for information about hours, admission, etc. I don't **HAVE** to provide this information, but I do so as a courtesy.

2.3k · September 10, 2002

I came to a cache like this in Paris once. Didn't like the concept of paying (it was rather expensive) for a quick geocaching visit, but entry on foot was free, so I simply walked to the cache.

Oh yes, parking outside was at no cost, too!

Anders

Should a cache be placed where a fee must be paid to reach it??

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