How commercial is too commercial?

[+Web-ling]

Geocaching.com prohibits commercial caches. But what makes a cache commercial? I have been considering asking my company's outlet store (a toy company) to sponsor a cache. I don't mean a cache full of ads, catalogues, or promotional material, but rather the actual product the company sells (in this case, toys.) In return, they're probably going to want some sort of mention on the cache page and/or in the cache. Where should the line be drawn on this sort of thing?

 

[+Renegade Knight]

Good question. There is a post by Jerimy asking if he should archive a normal cache where the owner admits he puts the excess money the cache generates into a charity.

 

I'd have to ask an admin what they think commerical is. It can't be the location because caches are often located in parking lots etc. It cant be the product since companies make the cache trade items.

 

If a company placed a cache to promote the company that would definatly be commercial.

on the other hand if you get a sponsor, you aren't commercial but may have a higher quality cache.

 

Are NASCAR drivers commercial? The decals on their cars are, but most people would say they arent...

[+Doombot!]

Almost anything that promotes caching should be allowed.... a little corporate sponsorship might be what this sport needs.

[+Rockdoctors]

Doombot,

 

Why do you think geocaching requires corporate sponsorship, and how would it support the sport?? Is it not growing at a fast rate on its own? Why do you want to change the current nature of the sport by promoting it further? There is nothing wrong with it the way it is. Is there??

[+Markwell]

I've seen enough caches full of McToys to actually have a McCache - but that's another story...

 

What I think "commercial" is referring to is a cache that brings you to a location trying to get you to purchase something. Go to these coordinates and buy a copy of coffee - they'll give you the coordinates for the next step.

 

Take the "toy" element out of it. Make it Barstucks. Let's say you get the local Barstucks to give you 20 coupons for a cup of their new specialty drink, the "Flaming Frapacino." You'd also like to make this a coffee themed cache (stirrers, espresso mugs). I don't see any problem with THIS type of cache, as I'm not being coerced into buying any coffee or even going to a Barstucks.

 

Where it would get tricky is in mentioning Barstucks in the NAME of the cache ("Barstucks Booty"). I think that may take on a commercial nature. But if you state that original contents were donated by the local Barstucks store (and maybe in the cache's physical log book you give the coordinates to the store that helped) - again, I would have no problem.

 

But remember, even in your toy cache, eventually the contents will be traded out for other toys, and the corporate sponsorship will be lost.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

[+Markwell]

For a little history...

 

In this thread, sbell111 said:

quote:

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The position of Geocaching.com is that religious tracts are verboten. Therefore, they should be removed from caches, if found.

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Jeremy then responded:

quote:

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Incorrect.

 

The position of Geocaching.com is that any cache with the main intent to solicit anything, whether politics, religion, or commercial ends, is inappropriate for the game and inappropriate for listing on the site.

---

 

I presume your cache is not trying to solicit seekers into buying anything. I would interpret the above statement being only directed toward trying to get you to buy the toys...

 

Why not write to Geocaching.com people and ask for a ruling as well?

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

 

(Update)...

 

Man, Jeremy has got to make this easier to find...

Requirements page explains commercial caches, too.

[+Web-ling]

I don't think geocaching REQUIRES sponsorship.

 

The idea would be to place much nicer items in the cache, and periodically cull out the happy meal toys and golf balls, and replace them with more good stuff. I can't afford to do this out of my own pocket, but if my company would be willing to sponsor the cache - with no obligation on the part of the cacher, and no promotional "junk" in the cache, just a brief mention on the web page and on the cover of the logbook - it would sure keep the cache well stocked.

 

Would the company benefit? Possibly. It would put their name out there in front of a few dozen potential customers.

 

Would cachers benefit? If they like nice trinkets, absolutely.

 

Is this "too commercial?" That's what I want to find out.

 

[MTBguy]

What I have always concidered a comercial cache is one that is one or more of the following: sponsered by a company, on the bussnises property with the obvious intent of bringing people the bussinness, any cache with a certain company theme, ect. A perfect example a a commercial cache would be the "Blue Ovel Cache" in Carthage MO. It is placed under a Ford sign, at a Ford dealership, and was placed there by a Ford car salesmen. But it you can get your store to give you free toys to put in the cache, without them wanting any exsesive mention of there company (a simple "Thanks to this company for supplying the bootynuggets" in the logbook might be fine) then I'd so GO FOR IT! Overall in moy opinion there are already to many rules for where you can place geocaches, If I could give one word of advice to the geocaching admin about the rules, I would say "RELAX!" This is about fun, let people have fun (even if it is "commercial" fun!)

 

The Mountain Bike Guy.

Long Live Long Rides!

 

[This message was edited by MTBguy on July 19, 2002 at 11:13 AM.]

[+sbell111]

Wow. I was quoted for paraphrasing a previous post by Jeremy in the same thread, so I'll guess I'll chime in.

 

I've been to a few caches locally that have been sponsored by local merchants (REI and another sporting goods store, Blue Ridge Mountain??). The sponsorships were stated clearly on the cache pages. They were not located at the stores. The merchants merely donated items (carabiner keychains, etc).

 

I had no problem with these caches and would have no problem if they also included coupons to be used at the stores. I don't believe that this type of cache is wrong in any way. In fact, in a number of ways these are better than other caches. From a purely nmaterialistic standpoint, the quality of the trinkets started out higher than average. Also, a cache that is sponsored in this manner is more likely to be placed in an appropriate location. The merchant certainly would not allow it to be placed in a location that would bring disfavor on itself.

[RobertLG]

Many have stated, rationally I believe, that geocaching is supposed to be fun. Having to navigate through words of definitions like lawyers is not fun.

 

I make crafts to supplement my income. One of them has to do with lat/long. I would dearly love to have every geocacher, hiker, pilot, and sailor on the planet visit my web site.

 

But to keep the keepers of geocaching happy (and some of its players), I have kept the mention of my business at the barest minimum.

 

I frankly disagree with having to keep silent about my small business, but will continue to do so to keep peace. However, if another site is established that is willing to accommodate entrepreneurs, I will be quick to take advantage of it.

 

RobertLG

[+Doombot!]

Rockdoctors....If some store has containers with their logo on it, and they gave me $100.00 to make 10 caches with, I say bring it on. I would place far more caches if they were free and I could put good stuff in them .

[+briansnat]

I found a beer themed cache behind the parking lot of a brew pub. On the cache page it suggested cachers try the good food and beer nearby.

 

Since we found the cache on our way to get something to eat, we decided to try the place and found that the beer was excellent and the food was very good.

 

I don't think the cache was placed by the owner of the brew pub, as the cach placer had a number of other caches in the area. Perhaps he was an employee there, or someone who simply enjoyed the place and wanted to share it with others.

 

Either way, we had no problem with the cach and its thinly veiled commercialism

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

[DisQuoi]

I would love to find a cache created and maintained by a fellow geocacher in which nice new toys were the reward. I have one question though. Would you expect people to trade up for nice new toys? The whole trade-up philosophy tends to keep cache contents cheap since people are hesitant to place a $20 item in a cache for a $15 item that they could have bought in store.

 

If you do this cache, I'd recommend either selecting $1-$3 dollars toys.

 

or ...

 

Make it clear that the toys are a reward for a very difficult cache find. Make the cache difficulty such that the demand doesn't exceed your supply of toys.

 

This has been discussed many times in "first finder prizes" discussions but I had a new fossil watch in a cache that I couldn't get people to take (someone finally did stating their hesitancy) since they felt that they should have to trade something of equal value which they didn't want to do.

 

I have no problem with a "commercial" cache like this (donated toys in exchange for mentioning versus 1/2 price coupons redeemable at a store).

[+Bear and Ting]

If they give you something, give them something in return (a little advertising). If I, as a cacher, want to visit the sponsor, I will.

 

Here is a virtual cache that is on my list to avoid (only because I know what and where it is and what it is "promoting"). WOW! Look at That. This cache is "sponsored".

 

Bear & Ting

 

I thought I was a little off, then I looked at my GPS and discovered I accurate to 12 ft.

 

Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

[+Web-ling]

quote:

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Here is a virtual cache that is on my list to avoid (only because I know what and where it is and what it is "promoting"). http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=6475. This cache is "sponsored".

 

Bear & Ting

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We did the Wow! Look at That! cache while on vacation, and thought it was pretty cool. Even if you don't happen to agree with the "sponsor" (actually, there are a whole group of "sponsors"), it's still pretty spectacular. You don't actually have to go anywhere near the "sponsors" to find it.

 

[+Markwell]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web-ling:

We did the Wow! Look at that! cache while on vacation, and thought it was pretty cool.

---

 

You might try Wow! Look at That! Again! in Tennessee, next time you're near Knoxville. I have heard tell that there's an identical one in Texas too.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

[+mtn-man]

One thing you really should do if your idea for a cache is questionable in your mind is email the geocaching contact email address. Give them your idea with the cache title, etc. and you will get an answer. The worst they can say is no, and you might have got a yes answer back by now and you could be posting the cache right now!

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!