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DEAD BEATS


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Guest c.mathis

I notice that on the geocache.com pages, when you log a find, the page displays how many caches you have found. The page could just as easily also display how many you have cached?

 

Perhaps by displaying how many caches someone has placed, it would compel people to place more. Personally, I would feel a little guilty if my "stats" showed that I had found 50 caches and only placed 1.

 

It's true that people should do what they do best, that is, caching or seeking, but the BEST thing you can do for the sport is to be a well balanced participant.

 

I think peer pressure can compel people to place quality caches. When people log their finds they should make comments as to the container and contents of the cache. Was it a good container, were the contents worth the effort, etc.

 

In many activities standards evolve without the need for written criteria. I am VERY new to geocaching and I want very much to be looked on as someone who is a good participant. I'll read the forums and the comments that are left by those finding my caches and try as much as possible to better the sport by my participation.

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Guest Bufford

This is directed to logscaler....how dare you plant a cache at Wickiup, I wanted that area icon_wink.gif. I will enjoy killing myself to find Gnarly Dude and you can bet I'll return the favor by placing a cache or two while I'm in the high lakes area. Good fun and good caching to all.....Bufford

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Guest Wii Smith

This has been quite interesting seeing the differnt replies to this subject.But to keep something alive you must feed it.The thing I like the most about a new cache is the creativeness of other individuals that brings a new spark not only to the finder but to the indviduals own inter stering for new ideas. FIND SOME HIDE SOME.

GEO--GEO--GEO.I do think the KF QUAD EXPLORERS Have avery good point here.Thanks for brining up the subjct.But only do what one can do.We will still love ya.

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Guest cleenjeep

Am I in trouble if I have placed 13 caches and only found 2? He he he.. I enjoy the game from a totally different perspective I guess. I learned to use my GPS only because of this game. I got the unit to use while jeeping and kayaking and backpacking, but haven't figured out how to use any of the thing til I discovered this game. This is probably one of the best learning tools available for a GPS, sure beats a video, and a class, for this is free!!

I know that the people who have found my caches generally are very happy that I placed them, they even email me to tell me that much! There really wasnt any in my area, so I figured it had to be someone. I dont want to hog the caches for my area, so I started taking several caches with me when I travel, to shake it up a bit. Good hunting..

Michael

 

------------------

Webmaster and List Admin for Southern Michigan Rockcrawlers

Personal Site is Cleenjeep's Site

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Guest bunkerdave

What the heck, as long as were beating the "Horseburger"...

 

I place my first cache today. I have found 19 since April 27th. That makes more than one per day. My wife is getting a little bitter. I don't think there is any way of determining what is "fair" as a ratio, and this is a topic therefore best left alone. I love to go to caches, and as often as not, I exchange nothing. I sign the log, express some thoughts, and I'm off to the next cache. Lest we forget, I think the real reason most of us got into this...sport(?) is because we thought GPS was cool and we needed an excuse to run out and buy one. Personally, I never travel more than five miles from my home without my little green buddy safely tucked in its cradle and stuck securely to the windshield...maybe the warm green glow of the backlight soothes me. Whatever. I have on my wall and on my screensaver a map of my state with all the caches on it. While there may be a problem in other areas with no having enough caches to go around, Utah is in NO danger of this. I have barely broken the 20% mark, and I have been going gangbusters the last 2-3 weeks. Those of you who are worried about running out of caches need to start taking your buddies on some hunts and getting them as hooked as you are. The success of the sport ultimately, as always, rests with the players.

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Guest JIntorcio

In thinking about this... I think comparing finds to caches hidden is a lot like comparing apples to oranges.

 

I'd suggest a better measurement would be a "find ratio" - the ratio of cache "finds provided" to caches found. What I mean by "finds provided" is the number of time caches hidden by the geocacher have been found. So, if I've hidden two caches and one has been found 6 times and the other 3 times and I've found 12 caches, my "find ratio" is (6+3)/12 = 0.75.

 

This credits geocachers for planting popular caches while giving little reward for stashing a treasure that nobody can or wants to find.

 

Perhaps striving for a find ratio of 1.0 is a worthy goal!?!?!?

 

------------------

>>> John <<<

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Guest c.mathis

quote:
Originally posted by bunkerdave:

I don't think there is any way of determining what is "fair" as a ratio, and this is a topic therefore best left alone. I love to go to caches...


 

I think some of us are trying to make the point that the reason people can have so much fun finding caches is that someone went to the effort to place them. It would be nice if the "finders" spent some time giving back to the community and placed a few themselves. I don't think there needs to be a "ratio" of finds to caches placed, I would just hope that the finders contribute something.

 

[This message has been edited by c.mathis (edited 15 May 2001).]

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Guest Exocet

quote:
Originally posted by c.mathis:

I think some of us are trying to make the point that the reason people can have so much fun finding caches is that someone went to the effort to place them. It would be nice if the "finders" spent some time giving back to the community and placed a few themselves. I don't think there needs to be a "ratio" of finds to caches placed, I would just hope that the finders contribute something.


 

I completely agree. It may be frustrating to know that there are some people out there that just aren't placing any caches, but who are we to 'legislate' what they do in this otherwise single person or very small group-oriented game?

 

Instead, I'd rather encourage the person I think is being a slacker, by way of an email, to place a cache. Let that person know that without placed caches that there are none to find. Fairly simple and to the point. If the person in question still doesn't want to place a cache, well then that's it! They don't want to place a cache for whatever reason.

 

There has been a lot of discussion regarding this topic on this thread and I think we all need to let each other do our own thing, within reason. Not placing a cache really doesn't hurt anyone. It just makes the sport a little less diverse. And frankly, that's the way the world works. Some people give a lot, some take a lot and others fall somewhere in between.

 

The flip side, of course, is the person who only really likes to place caches (a friend of mine, Joel, for example). Are we going to dictate that he needs to find X number of caches in order to place a cache? Hell no. The same should be true in reverse.

 

That's my opinion. I'm not forcing it on anyone or dictating anything. icon_smile.gif

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Guest Iron Chef

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but also don't forget that placing a cache can be a bit expensive for some people if they were to place over 10 caches. I'm a student myself and had to not eat for a month just to be able to get my gps and that is not to mention the cost of fuel to go visit the caches. I try to place as many caches that I can if I find a spot worthy of one, but sometimes it doesn't actually get placed for months because I want to wait and get some good stuff together to put into it. Just my zwo d-marks.

 

-Iron Chef

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Guest Peter Scholtz

One persons junk is another persons pleasure.

 

Some people would consider an AOL CD to be cheap. But believe me, some of the people finding the cache and taking the CD, could very well subscribe!

 

Luckily, in South Africa, we haven't reached the stage of ISP's spamming us with CD's yet.

 

Though, funnily enough, I've got a few AOL CD's I got from computer magazines bought at the local kilo bookshop (buy slightly older magazines by the pound!).

 

We don't have AOL in South Africa, so they have even less value than a coaster!

 

------------------

Peter Scholtz

www.biometrics.co.za

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Guest genegarris

Why does it matter if someone has ever hidden a cache. I hide caches because because I choose to. I, almost, would rather hide a cache than seek one. I would encourage people to hide caches if they know of interesting areas in the woods to visit. I have seen tunnels, statues, and all sorts of odd stuff in the woods because of geocaching.

 

I am happy that people visit my hidden caches each weekend. I enjoy the feedback.

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Guest bearboy

I would love it if everyone put out a good cache but I dont feel that it should be a rule.I think it would cause a run on mediocre or lame caches.That might cause the game to weaken and disolve.I have placed 3 and found five.I like hiding and seeking equally but lets face it is easier to seek than to hide the cache in a good area with interesting items inside.

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Guest c.mathis

quote:
Originally posted by genegarris:

Why does it matter if someone has ever hidden a cache.


 

If you and I don't place any caches, there aren't any for others to find - so ends the sport of geocaching! icon_wink.gif

 

Seriously, I don't think anyone is trying to make a "rule" that you have to place caches. I think we are only suggesting that it would be a nice gesture to give something back to the community. If someone can't afford to, or just doesn't want to place a cache, that's alright.

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Guest rsing2737

I'm a new to the sport, about month now. I have found 2 and placed 1 today. The sport hasn't really caught on here in Charleston, SC. I'm working placing more and I hope others will do the same. I enjoy the hunt and look forward to finding more. We all have to place some if we want to find some.

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Guest suntzu

This is the economist in me coming out, but seriously, what are people worried about? Do the math.... Suppose there are 20 people in your immediate search area who follow an average ratio standard of 15:1. This modest ratio would still create a surpus of 5 caches per person.

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Guest johnny

I don't see what posting someone's find/place ratio does other than create animosity, flame wars, e-mail messages (someone already mentioned they'd send a "slacker" an e-mail message), and hard feelings. There are going to be people who place caches, there are going to be people who don't, for whatever reason.

 

Are we keeping score? I'm not even sure why our find stats are displayed for all to see. It shouldn't matter how many caches a person has found. I thought the purpose of the game was enjoyment of the hunt, not the quantity found (or placed).

 

John

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Guest c.mathis

quote:
Originally posted by johnny:

I don't see what posting someone's find/place ratio does other than create animosity, flame wars, e-mail messages (someone already mentioned they'd send a "slacker" an e-mail message), and hard feelings. There are going to be people who place caches, there are going to be people who don't, for whatever reason.

 

Are we keeping score? I'm not even sure why our find stats are displayed for all to see. It shouldn't matter how many caches a person has found. I thought the purpose of the game was enjoyment of the hunt, not the quantity found (or placed).


 

The original topic of this thread was about people who log a lot of finds and have not placed a single cache, not about ratios. There is a thread about ratios - http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000304.html.

 

Here's my personal take on people finding, but not placing caches...

 

Should there be any "rules" requiring anyone to place a cache? NO! Absolutely not.

 

But, let me give you an analogy. Let's say we're having a pot luck dinner (where everyone brings a dish and we share). I have invited you to attend, but you arrive empty-handed. Would we ask you to leave? No, we would not. We're too generous and polite to do that. Should you feel guilty for not bringing something to share? Perhaps - that's up to you.

 

Let's suppose that you continue to attend pot luck dinners over the years and never bring a dish. Will you acquire a reputation as someone who takes but does not give back? Probably. Will we ask you to stop participating? Probably not, we'll just accept you for who you are - someone who does not contribute.

 

I agree that "ratios" are not important, but I would hope that everyone would at least contribute something.

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Guest johnny

quote:
Let's suppose that you continue to attend pot luck dinners over the years and never bring a dish. Will you acquire a reputation as someone who takes but does not give back? Probably. Will we ask you to stop participating? Probably not, we'll just accept you for who you are - someone who does not contribute.

 

Heck, you'd probably quit inviting me (assuming it was a by invitation pot luck and not a public one). Anyway, since Geocaching isn't pay to play and there's no way (currently) to restrict who can get the coordinates to a cache, I can't see that it's anything to worry about since nothing can really be done about it.

 

John

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Guest bunkerdave

d should take pride in having done so. I was not one of those, but I certainly appreciate the effort of those people, and I hope that at the various gatherings we will have I will be able to talk to them and give them the credit they are due.

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Well, I've just started geocaching (yesterday was the first time I found one), and after reading messages about 'Deadbeats' I can't help but feel taken aback. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't mind helping out, but after reading all the threads on the legal issues and red tape I'm a bit uncertain about placing caches. I doubt I'd be able to call up a park ranger and make a good arguement for placing something in their land. Ron Streeter is certainly an advocate of placing caches, and to him I request a favor. If you could share your experiences with getting permission and such (and how you were able to convince the rangers/property owners), I know I'd probably feel a lot more comfortable doing the same. And not just Ron, but anyone who wants more caches. If this issue was a bit more clear, I'm sure people would be more willing to create the caches you're asking for.

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Guest Exocet

Rin,

 

Red tape and talk aside ...lots of people place caches. I've placed 8. No one has ever had a problem with one of mine. The only group of folk who do have a persistant problem with it are the national forest people, and that is just with a smattering of caches.

 

Bottom line... if you know of a nice place that has special meaning for you or is a "good place for a cache" ...put one there! It'd be one thing if we were advocating you dump a bag of trash or spray paint a swastika somewhere. Instead all we're really talking about is a self-contained tupperware or ammo box, some trinkets and 1 to 30 geocachers visiting the spot over the next 3 months.

 

So no worries, ok?

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Guest ClayJar

I see placing my first cache as almost an initiation. It's not so much that I feel compelled to place a cache or feel guilty for hunting more; rather, I've enjoyed other people's caches so much, that I want to place my own with my own personality and style.

 

Actually working out the details to be able to place one in an adequate spot is a bit tedious and difficult (even though I have preliminary approval of the concept of placing a cache there), but I'll work it out.

 

My main problem is that I really don't know of many places to put a cache. Louisiana's motto could very well be "POSTED" for all I know. I'm having to do some research (and possibly negotiation) in order to be able to place a cache that might be more than a 1/1 -- I don't want a 1/1 cache. My cache finding numbers are 3 in Mississippi, 6 in Arkansas, and only 2 in Louisiana, primarily because I want to do more than just hopscotch to the container.

 

(I'm trying to come up with a good container theme for my prospective first cache. It'll be out in Livingston, LA, and be aptly named "Livingston, I Presume", but I want to be original with the container since the terrain is basically tortilla-flat and it may be a bit short in the hiking. I don't want the only draw to be that you can say, "I'm off to 'Livingston, I Presume'.")

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Thanks for the response, it does make me feel better knowing there hasn't been much of a problem getting permission. Still, I'd like to have a few more details. How did you find out who to contact? Did you mail a letter, or talk to them on the phone. Did you have to tell them exactly where the site was and what you were exactly going to place, or were you more general? Thanks for the help.

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EDIT

Wow, what an old thread... I almost wish I hadn't responded now haha, oh well.

=================

 

I really don't want to get involved in this topic, however I will add that with just under 20 finds to my name I still feel too inexperienced to place a quality cache. I do however have over 10 containers purchased and almost ready to be hidden.

 

With each find I learn something new, (whether a positive or nagative) about hiding a cache. I will hide one when I feel I'm ready to, and only then will I begin the process and expend the energy to release another cache into the world.

 

Second, I also do not agree with the 'one in/one out' comment for items in the cache. If I have equal or better quality items to swap why does it matter? I have 3 kids, two old enough to 'appreciate' a small token for their efforts. I also carry over 100 items to swap out, and chances are it's equal to or better than what they have decided to trade it for.

 

Take something fun and throw too many rules/regulations at it and you'll suck the enjoyment right out of it.

 

By all means do what you feel is right, but there's no need to force it on others.

 

Now, that said... I realized this was an old topic after I replied and saw someone mention the fact. My question is this... Why is it when someone starts a new thread about something already covered someone always jumps on them with 'do a search', however is someone does a search and replies to an existing topic then they get accused of bringing up an old topic.

 

Kind of a catch 22 huh?

Edited by XopherN71
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Wow...

 

What goes around comes around.

 

:laughing:

 

Huh? Why resurrect a 7 years old dead thread?

 

Should be obvious.

 

7 years, and still the same topics coming up... exactly the same topics.

 

20 years from now, this will still be discussed. There will still be geocaching, though it may not be at geocaching.com, and people will still argue about hiding vs finding ratios. Mark my words!

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Wow...

 

What goes around comes around.

 

:)

 

Huh? Why resurrect a 7 years old dead thread?

 

Should be obvious.

 

7 years, and still the same topics coming up... exactly the same topics.

 

20 years from now, this will still be discussed. There will still be geocaching, though it may not be at geocaching.com, and people will still argue about hiding vs finding ratios. Mark my words!

 

Well we should lock down the whole forum then. It is apparent that nobody will every have an original thought, idea, or opinion.

 

I did enjoy reading the old thread. When I have time to kill I think I will look at some of the other old ones.

 

The interesting part about it was back in 2001 it seemed like 10 finds was a lot, and I am sure it was because they were far and few between.

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Well we should lock down the whole forum then.

I've tried to bribe Jeremy to do that, but I just don't have the money. I keep playing the lottery though. Better be hoping I don't win. I might just buy Groundspeak out. :)

Not if Garmin buys it first!

 

Has someone posted that notice today? If not, I'd be surprised!

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Well we should lock down the whole forum then.

I've tried to bribe Jeremy to do that, but I just don't have the money. I keep playing the lottery though. Better be hoping I don't win. I might just buy Groundspeak out. :ph34r:

 

How much, I'll write the check right now.... of course I have enough, I still have checks left!

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Wow...

 

What goes around comes around.

 

:(

 

Huh? Why resurrect a 7 years old dead thread?

 

Should be obvious.

 

7 years, and still the same topics coming up... exactly the same topics.

 

20 years from now, this will still be discussed. There will still be geocaching, though it may not be at geocaching.com, and people will still argue about hiding vs finding ratios. Mark my words!

 

20 years from no briansnat will be tho ONLY original forum poster left. :ph34r::D;)

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