geocaching, terrorism and police!!!

[+flask]

If the threat of terrorism seems like a new threat to you, you just haven't been paying attention. 9/11 pales in comparision to the regular toll that violence takes in the world. the only difference is that a lot happened in one day at one time. we only really noticed because it happened here. think of it as just getting caught up to other areas of the planet.

 

i don't want to sound jaded, but horrific acts of violence take place all over and throughout time. it isn't about "why THEY hate us". there's no real THEM. we're all US, and we need to insist that we treat us all better.

 

there's no reason to sink to the lowest common denominator. i'm not immue to the gigantic toll that an extreme act takes on the heart of everyone around. i am not unaware. without taking the risk to reach out to our fellow creatures we lose the opportunity to stop the nonsense.

 

it's not skipping on blithe and blind; it's a conscious choice to stand my ground against a very strong tide. i'm of little use anywhere but in my small corner of the planet, but by golly, i'm going to open up this little corner and let in the light and air.

 

i'm playing games here, and i am deadly serious about it. i am also deadly serious about singing and dancing and playing pranks. there must be food and drink. there must be laughter. i simply refuse to let destruction and agression interfere with this more pressing business.

 

creating a class of outsiders and suspects will create more poor behavior. somebody has to step back. i insist on meeting suspsicion with openness. i resolutley and cheerfully rfeuse to be deterred from having a really good time.

 

come on over to my house; i'm a passable fair cook.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+briansnat]

quote:

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Oh, you find it funny? Hold on RIGHT there. Just because you live on the East coast, do you think that you have more of a right to feel a loss due to 9-11? That only the New York area is allowed to feel the effects? We ALL live in an area that is a target for those monsters, it's called AMERICA, and WE ALL DID live through a 9-11, not just you....did you think the people who died that day only had relatives in New York? I DID wait for news of family.

---

 

Funny ha-ha? No. But there is a big difference between watching events on TV, hundreds of miles away and being there. I'm sure many Americans waited for news of family and friends. But here, there were few people who were untouched. Hundreds of thousands of us lost friends, neighbors and family.

 

I was one of the lucky ones. Other than some of my brother's good friends, most of the people who died that day were just pictures in the paper to me.

 

Still, I recall passing by a normally empty train station late that night. I suddenly realized why the cars were still there. That hit home hard.

 

My brother (who, as I mentioned earlier, worked on the 105th floor of 2 WTC) was recently walking down a NYC street when someone ran up to him, hugged him and started screaming "You're alive, I can't believe it, you're alive!" At first my brother was startled, then he recognized the guy as the bartender in a local pub that he used to frequent with his co-workers. He didn't know the guy's name, and the guy didn't know his. But the bartender regularly served drinks to my brother and his colleagues. Of all those people, my brother was the only one who survived and this guy was so overjoyed to see him that he ran up to a virtual stranger and embraced him on the street.

 

There is no doubt that our entire nation was effected by the events of that day, but you must admit that the people who were closer, were affected more. As a result, they may be a tad more sensitive to "weird goings on" than someone in Scottsdale AZ.

 

BTW, the first geocache I ever placed was put there in honor of this man.

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 01, 2003 at 06:18 AM.]

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Those who were closer were affected more? Maybe and maybe not. Three years ago, my brother's wife was kidnapped, taken into the desert, sexually assaulted and shot twice in the head by someone the police later said was probably a serial killer. I'm all too aware of the after effects of violence. What the nation felt on 9/11, I'd already lived through. I'll never forget the phone call after midnight saying (name) was abducted and shot in the head, come to the hospital. It took me years to learn to trust people again, to trust people of that vermin's ethnic group again. No one in my family will ever be the same again. It isn't any different to have a family member seriously injured that way than by what happened on 9/11 or in Oklahoma City. Random acts of violence are devastating to everyone. I know people here who didn't hear from their daughter for three days, and she worked in the WTC. They were frantic, helpless to do anything, even to search the hospitals. They could only watch the TV and wait for the phone to ring. Others who had loved ones who were supposed to be in meetings at the WTC during the time the planes hit. Others whose son's office was in the area of the Pentagon destroyed by the plane. My mother's business partner had an office in a building across from the WTC. She couldn't get ahold of him for a week. I know easily a dozen people who suffered from the losses of that day, and a dozen others who suffered losses from other acts of violence. I'm sorry about everyone's personal tragedies and whether or not you are all dealing with the aftermath, but don't dismiss the rest of us because we weren't in New York or Oklahoma City on the days of those acts of terrorism. Violence in any form is still violence.

 

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

 

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

[+briansnat]

quote:

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don't dismiss the rest of us because we weren't in New York or Oklahoma City on the days of those acts of terrorism.

---

 

Nobody's doing that. Our nation was hit hard those days, but the people who were there, or lost someone close, were hit harder.

 

It's fact of life. When I read about the OK City bombing & the Columbine killings, I felt sort of safe here in NJ. They were horrid events, but having no personal relationship with the victims and their families, there was a bit of a disconnect. I just thought "We're lucky, that didn't happen here". But it can happen anywere.

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 01, 2003 at 09:12 AM.]

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

On 9/11, I never felt "we're lucky, that won't happen here." I wondered honestly if I would ever see my husband again. I was alone that day, he was hours away with his dying mother. Ever since my sister-in-law's kidnapping and attempted murder I have never truly felt safe. I go out and I do things alone, but I always watch my surroundings. After 9/11, I believed that those events could easily happen here. After all some of those terrorists lived here for a time. At any time I've believed they could strike here, just like any nut with a gun could hurt me or my family. (Pro gun people please don't chew me out. I wrote "nut with gun" not responsible person with gun.) I lost my sense of safety years ago, but I do not hide in fear.

 

 

Okay, way too much information about me. I don't usually talk about what happened. I'll be quiet now.

 

*****************

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

 

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

 

[This message was edited by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking on May 01, 2003 at 02:09 AM.]

[+flask]

nobody is safer here or there. the greatest risk is at the cause. even in rural vermont we waited for news of family. we are a global culture whether we like it or not. being close to the act of violence doesn't make you more entitled to be apalled; it just makes you close to the "act du jour". later there will be another terrible act and we will all suffer.

 

because when you get right down to it, we're all one people. salvation lies in returning better than we got. i hope today to be a better person than i was yesterday.

 

and brian, i'm not kidding about being a fair cook. next time you're caching i my neighborhood you give me a jingle and i'll make you a lunch.

 

it's a good thing all of us are not uniformly struck by every violent act. otherwise there'd be nobody available to hold our hands and make us cookies.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+briansnat]

quote:

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even in rural vermont we waited for news of family.

---

 

My brother just moved his family up to rural Vermont chiefly because he didn't want them in the NY metro area. He felt it was too much of a target for the evildoers.

 

I may be in Vt next week to bag a few caches and maybe place one or two. You guys certainly need more there. There are what, maybe 40 in the entire state? And no, they won't be vacation caches. I go to Vermont nearly every weekend in the winter and at least once a month in other seasons.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

[+flask]

just be careful yu're not undermining delicate permissin negotiations that the locals are working on. the state park system is formulating policy as we speak, and so are many city parks.

 

land managers are just starting to become aware of geocaching around here, and we also have some sensitive debates about land use.

 

what region are you considering?

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

quote:

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Originally posted by TEAM 360:

"I find it funny that the people here who disagree with me live in places like Arizona, Minnesota and Vermont. Maybe if you lived in an area that is a target for these monsters you might have a different attitude. Maybe if you lived through a 9/11; a day where you waited for hours for news of family, friends and neighbors, you might take this threat a bit more seriously."

 

Oh, you find it funny? Hold on RIGHT there. Just because you live on the East coast, do you think that you have more of a right to feel a loss due to 9-11? That only the New York area is allowed to feel the effects? We ALL live in an area that is a target for those monsters, it's called AMERICA, and WE ALL DID live through a 9-11, not just you....did you think the people who died that day only had relatives in New York? I DID wait for news of family.

---

 

Who says WE (Arizonans) all disagree? I work in a job where one of the largest 'potential' targets in the US could be a significant deal should something large enough and well organized (WTC 1993, anyone?) were to take place. I'm referring to PVNGS. In fact, my workplace is close enough to the danger zone, should a nuclear incident occur, that I might not make it home without a fatal dose of radiation.

 

Did you know that on 9-13-01, 2 helicopters were spotted on radar heading right toward PVNGS? Davis-Monthan AFB had 2 F-16s scrambled and flying over the plant in 3 minutes. Yes, that IS 3 minutes from liftoff to arrival over the area. Nothing was located, but it plays to the seriousness of how that place is treated. Even now, it is one of the most secure facilities in the country, military or otherwise.

 

On another note, I don't believe that one part of the country has more 'right' to mourn these events or feel the effects than another. While some locations in the country are more likely targets (anywhere in NYC, LAX, Vegas Strip, Disneyland), the reality is that ANYWHERE you are isn't safe if there is a population. It seems that people have forgotten all the talk about soft targets, although that may have been more in the intelligence reports I've read, but they are anywhere, and everywhere. A multi-story apartment building, or a parking garage completely packed after a major sporting event aren't found only in mega metropolitan areas such as Dallas, or LA, or NYC.

 

Have I changed how I live my live as a result of those events? Partially. I have a stronger sense of my environment, but I try quite hard to keep that under control, in order to prevent hypervigilance. This article is a bit 'deep', and deals primarily with law enforcement, but the reality is that many people in this country have experienced some degree of hypervigilance in their lives at one point or another since 2001. Of course, it doesn't help that I work in a law enforcement related position.

 

Hypervigilance: A psychological term referring to an elevated state of awareness which may be chronic or acute and is usually rooted in fear or neuroses. ...a state of primed awareness brought about by specific events, in which the associations one makes about subsequent events are predictable and tend to reinforce the perception of the priming event(s).

 

In more ways than you know, the events of 9/11 have impacted the country. While most people can 'complain' about the overt changes in law enforcement, there have been enormous changes post-attack that many never see. In addition, there are events which have occurred that the public largely knows nothing about that have caused law enforcement on all levels to scramble in an effort to thwart off whatever threat intelligence has provided them.

 

[/soapbox]

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

[edit]See above post[/edit]

 

Ok, it was pointed out to me that I responded to a quote that appears to be from Team360, when it was in fact from BrianSnat (the first paragraph, while the second IS from Team360). I just wanted to clear up any potential misconception as to who this post was directed to.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[bit64]

OlyHippy, its people like you that give the military a bad wrap. Please keep your mouth shut about it and stop posting such offensive things. People hae the right to their opinions, but they do not have the right to talk to people the way you have in here. Show some respect and some dignity. If you were a Marine, you sure don't act like one.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

quote:

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Originally posted by bit64:

If you were a Marine, you sure don't act like one.

---

 

Not implying anything in OlyHippy's case, but you can go both ways with Marines. Some are great guys/gals with enormous confidence, while others live the rest of their lives on an ego-inflated power trip because they are "The Few. The Proud..."

 

I guess the same thing could be said about other military branches, but my experience shows it to be more prevalent with the Marine element.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[iryshe]

To summarize, be aware of your surroundings and do research before going out on a cache hunt. If someone approaches you and asks you what you are doing, tell them. If you bring additional cache information with you, display it to an authority if one asks you what you are doing.

 

Since this has run its course I'm closing the thread.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™