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geocaching, terrorism and police!!!


gorka115
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Hello to all; a quick note to share an experience I just had a few days ago while geocaching around London. I was looking for the hints of a series of virtual caches when I saw a police car arriving full speed, stopping close to me and two police officers getting off and asking me to stop. The reason? I was acting "suspiciously" and I had a GPS in my hands... reasons good enough to be fully inspected, have pockets emptied, asked many questions and have to explain what geocache is, trying to convince them that having a GPS does not necessarily mean marking potential terrorism targets. They have been very polite, especially after understanding I was totally unharmful, but, for the sake of peace, print the geocache page where it is explained what this is all about, print the page of the cache you are looking for and TAKE THEM WITH YOU because you may need them to take yourself off the hook. Good hunt to all.

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Unless you're up here in Washington on the Olympic Peninsula near that stupid Marine base with those trigger-happy nitwits guarding the place! Watch out for wrong turns, they are very content with their shoot-to-kill orders.

 

And this was years before bin Laden and all that crud!

 

"Geocaching: the perfect sport for introverts!"

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i have been approached in the same type of situation. i went looking for a cache in the middle of the night. we ended up in an area that didnt look like a park. it was a parking lot and a few fields. there was no sign at all that had a name or hours of this "park". me and my friend parked in the lot and went on out way. when we came back, my car had been blocked in by 3 sherrifs cars. the sherrifs were nowhere to be found. we sat down on the back of my car. about 15min later, they came out with their guns drawn. now, i know it looked suspicious, a 16 and 18 year old males running around in the middle of the night with bookbags and a gps in the middle of downtown columbus. it was kind of hard to convince them what was going on until i thought of one thing. i simply stopped, and said hold on. opened my bookbag and dumped about 60 random things out of it onto my car and said to the cop, "honestly, does it look like i am doing something bad here?" they let me go but warned me about having a minor out after curfew.

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quote:
Unless you're up here in Washington on the Olympic Peninsula near that stupid Marine base with those trigger-happy nitwits guarding the place! Watch out for wrong turns, they are very content with their shoot-to-kill orders.

 

I'll bet you didn't know they were guarding one of the largest nuclear weapons arsenals on the west coast. Wait, of course you did, smartass. By the way, why don't you wander on to their propery and see just how trigger happy they are. I happen to know for a fact their deadly force criteria are not in your favor.

 

BTW, I'm from WA and know just who I am targeting with this message. There are enough clowns like you who think the rules only apply when you agree with them. You're a spoiled punk.

 

Hey, at least you capitalized Marine. You can't be half that jacked up. And before I forget, it's a Naval Submarine Base with a Marine Security Forces detachment. Now you're a little more informed.

 

[This message was edited by OlyHippy on April 25, 2003 at 01:26 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by OlyHippy on April 25, 2003 at 01:27 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by OlyHippy on April 25, 2003 at 01:29 PM.]

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Hey Ol' Hippy,,,,you rock!! I hate when people (I use that term with forced politeness) bash the military. I put in 13 years.... served during 3 wars, and now am 30 % disabled because of injuries I recieved as a firefighter. AND I WOULD DO IT ALL AGAIN!! So BRIANCM, unless you served your time to help make this country free, keep your stupid comments about the military inside your lips until you get some education and can hold an inteligent conversation. If you already have served your time, (in the military, not prison), I'll consider your comments either the result of a severe brain injury......or a poor upbringing.

 

Earth First!!! We'll cache the other planets later!!

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Ok back to the original post here,

 

If people would just mind there own business and not live there life in a panic, everything would be just fine... The person who called the Bobbies on you , how do they know if you aren't working for a survey company or for the city/state etc.... Man I work with people like that !!! I hate that ... Ethier come up to me and ask me what I am doing or bug off, dont go running and call the cops, I mean unless you see someone actually braking into a place or destroying something etc etc.....Man you would think we went back in time 300 years and we were walking around with these weird gadets having face offs with Buffalo Bill...

 

Every time i cache i say i need a second job, everytime i apply for a job i realize there will be no time to cache???

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

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I get some of the strangest looks when caching, but I have a volunteer firefighter plate on my car, and many times I wear a shirt with my department name and #.

It seems to satisfy most people. Of course, I tend to avoid the nuke storage sites as well. Somebody said those things are dangerous !

 

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

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Sounds to me like those bobbies were doing their job and doing it well given what's going on in the world. I got stopped recently outside a federal office building in Tucson because I was monitored on camera and looked suspicious. All said and done, I was glad someone was being that alert.

 

Oh yeah, For sale:

 

French rifle, never fired, dropped once ... icon_smile.gif

 

"I've never been lost, but I was a might bewildered for three days once." - Daniel Boone

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quote:
Originally posted by Natureboy1376:

Ok back to the original post here,

 

If people would just mind there own business and not live there life in a panic, everything would be just fine... The person who called the Bobbies on you , how do they know if you aren't working for a survey company or for the city/state etc.... Man I work with people like that !!! I hate that ... Ethier come up to me and ask me what I am doing or bug off, dont go running and call the cops, I mean unless you see someone actually braking into a place or destroying something etc etc....

Natureboy1376


 

Actually the wrong advice, if this was a thief, or a terrorist then they may shoot you for asking what they were doing. Better to call the cops and let them handle it, that is part of their job you know. (check out suspcious looking people)

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quote:
that is part of their job you know. (check out suspcious looking people)

 

I understand that is , but I ment the persons who called the cops... Basically even before I started caching.. If I were in Boston or Providence and saw people walking around with a gadet looking for something , I wouldn't think twice about, I would figure they were doing there job or straight out just looking for something and go my way as I was doing before i saw them, but if I saw them breaking into a place or actually doing a crime act I would call the cops.....Its almost like when your in the city taken some pictures and some one calls the cops...Even though we live in a time when crazy things are happening people need to relax a bit...

 

GOT IT FOUND IT,Whats in it????? oh a dirty golf ball, a broken Mctoy and some soggy candy melted in the heat...So log it and grab the TB and lets go.. Wait the TB hasn't been here for 5 months....Dam it I'm glad I drove 60 miles for it!!!!

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

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DevilDogs:

 

I used to be a Deputy Sheriff in a rural area and I'm 99% sure that they thought the owner/occupants of the vehicle they happened on was harvesting/planting marijuana plants. That's why they blocked you in and were out in the fields looking for you, and they approached you with guns drawn when you were waiting for them to move their cars.

 

Just thought I'd let you know that if they didn't tell you already. Of course I could be wrong.

 

Dan

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hey, northernlights, it's not fair to hold military service as the criterion for being taken seriously.

 

there are trigger happy idiots in and out of uniform. theere are thoughtful pleasant people in and out. it does not seve anyone to make sweeping categorizations.

 

but to my experience, if you want to make a jerk out of anyone, put a special hat on him and tell him to watch out for suspicious behavior. and you don't have to look to the military or police to encounter this phenomenon. try it out on a group of five-year olds. or girls scouts. or birders. or...

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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quote:
Originally posted by OlyHippy:

BTW, I'm from WA and know just who I am targeting with this message. There are enough clowns like you who think the rules only apply when you agree with them. You're a spoiled punk.


I got my medals in the Army, honorable discharge and all that. There is a DD214 form with my name on it!

 

The base needs to have a sign at the main road as in "authorized vehicles only", not a non-descript guard shack on a winding wooded road. Of course, this was in the days of pre-GPS, and one does get lost in the fog. No, I don't think it was the main gate, and vehicles can't stop on a dime when the road has ice on it.

 

Yes, I served, and I know the caliber (or lack of it) of the people I was stationed with. A trigger-happy moron is a trigger-happy moron.

 

I busted my *** to serve my country, AND I HAVE EARNED MY RIGHTS! Tough ---- for you if I use them, huh?

 

"Geocaching: the perfect sport for introverts!"

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quote:
I busted my *** to serve my country, AND I HAVE EARNED MY RIGHTS! Tough ---- for you if I use them, huh?

 

Hmm, last I checked military service or support wasn't a requirement to earn our right to free speech. I can appreciate the freedoms we have just as much as anyone, and I'm glad someone was there to fight for them when the country was founded. That doesn't mean that I won't stand up to be a voice of dissent when I feel that I must. That's my duty as a citizen. Sure, it would be easy to just kick out non-warmongers, and while we're at it, how about non-christians, immigrants and everyone else who happens to be in the minority. I don't think we'd have much of an "America" left then.

 

Anyway...

 

Flask is right on the money here. With the current state of the world, when the general public is told to be on the lookout for "suspicious behavior", people (or Sheeple, as many could be termed) are all too eager to be the one pointing their finger at the "evil". People love gossip, and want to tell their friends that they "called the cops on a terrorist".

 

I'm actually looking forward to being asked why I'm acting so "suspiciously".

 

E Pluribus Unum,

-Milgren

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You know, it's a sad state of affairs when the current U.S. administration has the general population (of apparently functionally illiterate joe-six-packs), so afraid of the 'terrorist' bogeyman that they are willing to not only give away our Constitutional protections ('Patriot Act' #1 ...and #2 coming soon), but are more than happy and willing to drop a dime on their neighbor for acting 'suspicious'. Does the word 'fascism' mean anything to you?

Probably not ...to the functionally illiterate (being spoonfed soundbites from Fox News ...as they watch American Idol).

 

[This message was edited by clps on April 27, 2003 at 04:32 AM.]

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quote:
Yes, I served, and I know the caliber (or lack of it) of the people I was stationed with.

 

I think it's fairly evident you had a bad experience in the military, which is certainly not the Marines fault, so why don't you direct your impotent rage somewhere else. You don't know the job they have; because like you said, you were in the Army.

 

I think the problem with you is that you see regular guys out doing there job (yes, it's their job to be hypersensitive of everyone around Bangor) and you personally don't like it. Too bad for you.

 

quote:
I got my medals in the Army, honorable discharge and all that. There is a DD214 form with my name on it!

 

Yeah, you, me, and countless thousands of others. I'm not really sure what your point is there. Do you think just because you have medals and a DD214 that gives you the right to make flippant remarks about the military, or more specifically, a branch of the military you didn't even serve in? I guess everyone has that right, but they are going to end up looking pretty dumb, especially if they have never worn that uniform. icon_confused.gif

 

quote:
I busted my *** to serve my country, AND I HAVE EARNED MY RIGHTS! Tough ---- for you if I use them, huh?

 

Ok, great, you busted your a$$. What does that have to do with calling Marines a bunch of trigger happy morons? To be perfectly honest, yes, we are a bunch of trigger happy morons. It's because were so fuc$ing trigger happy, that a guy like you can have an opinion. Being in the Army, you of all people should know that!

 

I've stood similar posts like those Marines on Bangor and I would have salivated for the opportunity to cap some nasty piece of trash who thought they were going to come onto my base un-announced. It's their job, and they are very good at it. After all, you were in the Army; this should be common knowledge to you.

 

quote:
Tough ---- for you if I use them, huh?

 

No, tough for you if you don't have the basic sense to know when you've made a bad decision. By all means, exercise your rights to the fullest, that's what our country is all about. Don't think for a second you have the right to sacrifice personal accountability by trespassing on a government facility. After all, you were in the Army, you already know this.

 

In a way, I feel sorry for guys like you. You go around pointing the finger at everyone else, blaming them for your problems. It's your problem you can't handle trigger happy morons. It's your problem you traveled down a foggy road. It gets foggy on the penninsula by the way. It's your problem you can't deal with some basic rules. Suck it up! You were in the Army. I know they must have taught you to have some intestinal fortitude.

 

[This message was edited by OlyHippy on April 27, 2003 at 04:16 AM.]

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Milgren-"With the current state of the world, when the general public is told to be on the lookout for "suspicious behavior", people (or Sheeple, as many could be termed) are all too eager to be the one pointing their finger at the "evil". People love gossip, and want to tell their friends that they "called the cops on a terrorist"."

 

Sounds a lot like "call the KGB and turn in your neighbor", huh?

 

We need to be careful about our rights during these times.

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yeah. civil liberties. they're what makes this country great and every time we roll over and let someone do questionable searches we become just a little less worthy of the courage and ardor that made us "a nation on earth, independent and free".

 

i feel it's my patriotic duty to question the right of every idiot in a hat who detains me or questions me while i am lawfully behaved. it is not appropriate for citizens of this country to be treated as criminal until we are under REASONABLE SUSPICION of committing a crime.

 

when you give away your civil liberties, you usually do not get them back. and in the end, giving them up does not make us more secure.

 

on the other hand, i think it's just plain stupid to lurk without apparent purpose near militarty installations, nuclear sites, major reservoirs, or defense contractors. appropriate vigilance in these places is important. the difference, i guess, is kind of like the difference between community policing and intimidation-based police work.

 

it is possible and preferable for those doing the defending to do so in a courteous manner, and it is possible and preferable for the citizens of the world to behave with courtesy as well.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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quote:
i feel it's my patriotic duty to question the right of every idiot in a hat who detains me or questions me while i am lawfully behaved. it is not appropriate for citizens of this country to be treated as criminal until we are under REASONABLE SUSPICION of committing a crime.

 

I always thank the guys at the airport who ask me to remove my belt while they check me with a metal detector. It's a hassle and I'm certainly not a terrorist, but they're doing their job and trying to keep people safe.

 

I think it's a matter of degree. If I were handcuffed and detained, I'd agree with your points - but just having someone ask me 'hey, what are you up to?' when I'm skulking around in the bushes doesn't bother me.

 

If only most people who skulked around in bushes were only geocachers looking for tupperware - I'd suspect a cop's job would be much less stressful! icon_smile.gif

 

There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. - Ken Olsen, President, Digital Equipment, 1977

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clps:

quote:
Probably not ...to the functionally illiterate (being spoonfed soundbites from Fox News ...as they watch American Idol).

 

I read in yesterday's paper that Ted Turner is accusing Rupert Murdoch of inciting the war effort to generate more business for his news services! icon_rolleyes.gif I guess CNN didn't benefit from the increased demand in news coverage?

 

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

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quote:
Originally posted by OlyHippy:

 

Yeah, you, me, and countless thousands of others. I'm not really sure what your point is there. Do you think just because you have medals and a DD214 that gives you the right to make flippant remarks about the military, or more specifically, a branch of the military you didn't even serve in? I guess everyone has that right, but they are going to end up looking pretty dumb, especially if they have never worn that uniform. icon_confused.gif


 

Actually, that's exactly correct. Last I checked all U.S. military personnel swear, and certainly what I swore, to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

 

The Constitution in turn grants every individual the right to speak as they will, without federal interference. you don't have to like it, but then, you have an equal right to say so.

 

But that is why you served.

 

Ron/yumitori

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While the original post involved London, it has me wanting to vent about the terrorist happenings in America. People are just scared, and are trying to adapt to the situation, learning how to behave as they go along. Many people have been placed in the position of having the responsibility of being “vigilant” but not having the training, knowledge, or personality that lets them do it correctly. Everyone needs to get involved in the process, bringing about constructive solutions, and making sure our cure isn’t worse than the disease. We all need to be vigilant, while at the same time watching out for our rights. Just as our second amendment rights have been under assault for years by those afraid of criminals, this new fear for Americans will probably result in many assaults on our basic rights and freedoms, brought about by people with good intentions, but not necessarily the best solutions.

 

As for the comment by clps regarding the “administration” making people be afraid of the terrorist bogeyman….. Seems pretty shortsighted to me. I was on the receiving end of a terrorist bomb back in June, 1996. I was lucky in that I just learned to fly, but other than bumps and bruises was unharmed. Unfortunately, the bomb left 19 US airmen dead, many more wounded severely. At that time, we had an administration that chose not to do anything about it. Time has taught us how effective the head in the sand policy was. It’s one of those problems we have to accept as real, take action to cure and prevent, while making sure the cure isn’t worse for our life style than the disease. When you encounter the fools along the way, work with the appropriate supervisors, or organizations when appropriate to come up with solutions. When you encounter individuals who are just idiots, don’t let it get to you. At least you don’t have to live in their warped heads. In the end, I can’t help but think it’s an area where everyone benefits if we all try to have a little patience, get involved, and work constructively towards solutions. Labeling people with real fears as fools doesn’t help the situation in my opinion.

 

Just my two cents worth.

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To Searching_ut:

 

My sympathies for what you experienced in 1996.

 

Violence changes people. It changes the way you feel and react. It hasn't been easy for America to adapt to a post 9/11 world.

 

****************

 

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

 

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

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quote:
You know, it's a sad state of affairs when the current U.S. administration has the general population (of apparently functionally illiterate joe-six-packs), so afraid of the 'terrorist' bogeyman that they are willing to not only give away our Constitutional protections ('Patriot Act' #1 ...and #2 coming soon), but are more than happy and willing to drop a dime on their neighbor for acting 'suspicious'. Does the word 'fascism' mean anything to you?

 

I don't think any rational person can deny that terrorism on US soil is a real danger. I watched the WTC towers fall from a distance. By the grace of God, my brother, who worked on the 105th floor of 2 WTC was not in the office that day. He did lose every single one of his co-workers. Over 600 in all. The people who worked for him, his bosses, the friendly security guard at the door, the cheerful receptionist, the young mother a few desks over and two of his closest friends.

 

It's reasonable to assume that if the terrorists can hit us again, they will. This is no imaginary bogeyman. If they can take 300,000 lives, instead of 3,000 does anybody think they won't try? We have to realize that there are probably people plotting against us at this very moment.

 

There is nothing wrong with being vigilant. It could save lives. The trouble is that there is a fine line between vigilance and being a snitch and somtimes it's a tough call.

 

The Arab man who just moved in across the street and gets frequent visitors at odd hours. Is he plotting the next Sept 11th, or just a guy with a lot of friends? If you assume the latter, but he's doing the former, your inaction could result in many deaths. The other way around and you could cause an innocent man to be investigated.

 

The car that drives slowly down your street in the wee hours. Is it someone casing houses to rob, or a guy who is lost and looking for an address?

 

The guys communicating with hand signals on a flight. Are they plotting a hijacking, or deaf friends chatting?

 

The woman who leaves a package on a bench in a crowded park. Is it a bomb, or did she just forget her laundry?

 

There are many ambiguious situations that can cause a reasonable person some alarm. In reality, probably 99.9999 percent of the time they are harmless. But what does a person do? Do you go with the odds and assume that it is harmless and ignore it, or error on the side of caution and report it? I know I'm the kind of person who would go with the odds and ignore it, but what if I was wrong? As I said, it's a pretty tough call and I can't blame someone for acting when they see something suspicious.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 30, 2003 at 09:57 AM.]

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better watch out for that skinny white guy from upstate NY, too. he might also turn out to be a terrorist. he might bomb a building in oklahoma.

 

if you don't watch skinny white guys or guys who buy fertilizer, you might be abetting terrorism.

 

better to work on the cause than the symptoms.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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Brian, what's with all these reasonable, well-thought out replies lately? You're scaring me. Next thing ya know Mr.Snazz and Majicman will be making sense too.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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"The Arab man who just moved in across the street and gets frequent visitors at odd hours. Is he plotting the next Sept 11th, or just a guy with a lot of friends? If you assume the latter, but he's doing the former, your inaction could result in many deaths. The other way around and you could cause an innocent man to be investigated.

 

The car that repeatedly drives slowly down your street in the wee hours. Is it someone casing houses to rob, or a guy who is lost and looking for an address?

 

The guys communicating with hand signals on a flight. Are they plotting a hijacking, or deaf friends chatting?

 

The woman who leaves a package on a bench in a crowded park. Is it a bomb, or did she just forget her laundry? "

 

You're right. Let's all walk around paranoid and point our fingers at each other, and call the cops on anyone acting differently in the name of "Terrorist threat". That is EXACTLY the kind of fear that Bin-Laden and his type want to instill in us. Looks like it's working, too. Just not on me. Everyday living, that's what I am doing. I have better things to do than cower in my basement, so afraid of the next attack that it ruins what is left of the time I have. See you out on the trail...or maybe not, but at least I will still be out there.

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I think that there's going to have to be a little give on both sides....

 

The Bomb Squad is going to have to get used to even more false alarms than usual. Recently we almost had the same thing happen Here as happened to Caching Toddler, Hidden Tupperware. Even though the cache container was marked, when the container was hidden, the markings weren't visible. Somebody found it and called the cops.

 

The problem is that Bin's Boys have widened that fuzzy gray area of doubt in people's minds.

 

So, in that regard, I agree with Team 360. I sure as H@#$ am not going to let them win.

Our wedding anniversary is 9/11/93.

This year we are going to be celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary, not the anniversary of a terrorist victory (which is what it would be if we were) We have 364 other days for remembering those who have died, and I sure as H@#$ am not going to forget them, but I'm not going to crawl into a hole and let Bin win.

 

I am going to continue my life, same as before.

I am going to be happy on 9/11.

I will continue to geocache.

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MnGCA-button.gif

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"The number you have reached is imaginary, please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again... <beeeeep>"

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quote:
You're right. Let's all walk around paranoid and point our fingers at each other, and call the cops on anyone acting differently in the name of "Terrorist threat". That is EXACTLY the kind of fear that Bin-Laden and his type want to instill in us. Looks like it's working, too. Just not on me. Everyday living, that's what I am doing. I have better things to do than cower in my basement, so afraid of the next attack that it ruins what is left of the time I have. See you out on the trail...or maybe not, but at least I will still be out there.

 

I don't think anybody is talking about cowering in their basements, but what is wrong with being aware of your surroundings and keeping an eye out for potential threats? Pretty much every animal does it. It's called self preservation.

 

I'm not afraid to walk down a city street, but if I notice two, or three youths who appear to be shadowing me, I'll probably change change my route and head to a busier area area. Maybe they are simply going the same way I am. Who knows? But I'd rather not find out.

 

I'm not afraid to go into the backcountry, but if I was on a backpacking trip with my family and I ran into two guys who made me uncomfortable and they asked "so where you planning on camping?", I'd lie.

 

In each instance, I'm taking what I feel to be reasonable precautions. Maybe some people would call it paranoia. Let them.

 

We're talking about reasonable vigilance and taking reasonable precautions. You can call it paranoia and walk around with your head in the sand, but that doesn't mean the threats will go away.

 

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

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I think it's a fair statement to say that regardless how you personally deal with the aftermath of the terrorist attacks - you're kidding yourself if you don't think most people haven't changed their focus.

 

Recently, some drunk kids were climbing on the one of the NYC bridges - the bridges were CLOSED while they investigated to ensure nothing was left behind.

 

You want to argue that things haven't changed? Maybe it's a NYC thing, but people are definitely more inclined to notice someone parked near a reservoir entrance or someone climbing under a bridge abutement. Even if we're only looking for tupperware, some people will look twice at us.

 

I think it's a sign of the times - the attacks have changed the way some people view others.

 

There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. - Ken Olsen, President, Digital Equipment, 1977

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I think we need to react differently to terrorism. The airlines, for example, were actively fighting bag matching and other security measures that the FAA has wanted for years. Can someone explain why it was legal, and deemed safe, to let passengers (pre 9/11) carry box cutters and knives aboard commercial aircraft? I have never been attacked by a rabid carboard container while on a airplane. We put security in the hands of the "low cost bidder", and are paying for it now.

 

As a side note, I had an interview out East Monday. Sunday morning, the ticket agent noted that my driver's license was expired. He told me I could still travel, but would be subject to more security screens. He was right. I was still able to get a rental car, and on the return trip, was not questioned about the expired license at all.

 

We are learning some of the same lessons they've learned over the years in Europe and Asia. I also believe that the government is not exercising enough discretion in its approach to terrorism. Telling people to buy Duct Tape and plastic sheeting was irresponsible. Telling people how to be prepared for a disaster (natural or man-made) would have been a more prudent approach.

 

We will need to exercise a little more caution Geocaching. "People don't know what we're doing," was what my wife said about us Geocaching, and I think that's why we need to be extra careful.

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no, no, NO! i'm going to stamp my tiny little feet and shout. there have been ugly people with harmful intentions ever since there were people. weapons have been (mis)used ever since there have been weapons.

 

i'm not saying that we ought to ignore legitimate threat of harm, but i am saying that people's sense of hysteria is way overblown. i think it has a lot to do with the fact that multimedia pipes bad news into our homes 24/7. nobody ever made a buck reporting that things are just fine. remeber that shark attack summer? shark attacks were actually down. there was just nothing else to report.

 

i'm afraid that what it's going to take is a brave stalwart band who WILL NOT CAVE IN to general pressure. QUESTION the right of search. CONTINUE your daily lives. KEEP your civil rights. EXERCISE freedoms of speech and movement. only by accepting the challenge and the hassle do we succeed.

 

most of all, be kind to each other. it's a hard enough world out there. be cheerful, be polite, be firm, and for goodness' sake, wear clean underwear. your mother would be proud.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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quote:
no, no, NO! i'm going to stamp my tiny little feet and shout. there have been ugly people with harmful intentions ever since there were people. weapons have been (mis)used ever since there have been weapons.

 

True, but instead of some guy with a bomb, or AK 47, there is a real possibility of someone getting and misusing weapons that can cause far more destruction.

 

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i'm not saying that we ought to ignore legitimate threat of harm, but i am saying that people's sense of hysteria is way overblown. i think it has a lot to do with the fact that multimedia pipes bad news into our homes 24/7. nobody ever made a buck reporting that things are just fine. remeber that shark attack summer? shark attacks were actually down. there was just nothing else to report.

 

I don't see a sense of hysteria. To the contrary, people are largely going on with their lives. Sure there are a handful who are afraid of their own shadow and are too freaked out to fly, or go to a Broadway play, or who call the police when they see an Arab walking down the street. But for the most part, people are moving on with their lives. They are doing this to a degree that I didn't think was possible.

 

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QUESTION the right of search. CONTINUE your daily lives. KEEP your civil rights. EXERCISE freedoms of speech and movement. only by accepting the challenge and the hassle do we succeed.

 

I agree with this fully. Nothing sickens me more than hearing someone saying "if you have nothing to hide, why care if the police search you?" They just don't get it.

 

But we have to realize that there is a serious danger. The threat of terrorism is no "monster under the bed". It is real and as much as we want to think so, our government can't protect us.

 

There are people who want to kill us simply because we are American. They don't care if you're black, white, or Asian; Moslem, Catholic or Jewish; liberal, or conservative. Republican, or Democrat. They want to kill you because you're an American.

 

I find it funny that the people here who disagree with me live in places like Arizona, Minnesota and Vermont. Maybe if you lived in an area that is a target for these monsters you might have a different attitude. Maybe if you lived through a 9/11; a day where you waited for hours for news of family, friends and neighbors, you might take this threat a bit more seriously.

 

I'm not talking about roadblocks, door-to-door searches and paid snitches. I'm not talking about locking yourself indoors and peering out your window to watch your neighbors. Nor am I talking about making major changes to your lifestyle. Go to ballgames, ride the subway, see a Broadway play. Heck, I'm a Libertarian. A police state is the last thing I want to see.

 

But there is nothing wrong with keeping your eyes open and being aware of what is going on around you. It's possible that the guy who seems like he's up to no good, is. I'm sure in the days leading up to 9/11, the actors aroused some suspicions. Perhaps if someone reported them, a lot of my neighbors would be alive today.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

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"I find it funny that the people here who disagree with me live in places like Arizona, Minnesota and Vermont. Maybe if you lived in an area that is a target for these monsters you might have a different attitude. Maybe if you lived through a 9/11; a day where you waited for hours for news of family, friends and neighbors, you might take this threat a bit more seriously."

 

Oh, you find it funny? Hold on RIGHT there. Just because you live on the East coast, do you think that you have more of a right to feel a loss due to 9-11? That only the New York area is allowed to feel the effects? We ALL live in an area that is a target for those monsters, it's called AMERICA, and WE ALL DID live through a 9-11, not just you....did you think the people who died that day only had relatives in New York? I DID wait for news of family.

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Brian Snat:

My sympathies for your losses on 9/11. I agree with your stance. I live in Arizona and I felt every bit the horror of 9/11. I grew up in New York and a lot of my childhood friends work in the city. Not only that, but my mother-in-law was dying of cancer here in Arizona. We were already in a devastated state that day. There was also the very real possibility one of her daughters would not make it back in time to say goodbye before my mother-in-law died because she lived in Seattle. On the reverse side, I have American Islamic friends. I saw the hell they went through after 9/11. They were scared to death of retribution, especially after someone was shot and killed out here because he wore a turban. Someone I know is an immigration lawyer. I've heard terrible things about how rights are being thrown out the window in the name of homeland security. And yet some fanatics hate us so much they are like rabid dogs. You cannot win their hearts and minds or reason with them. I've had a hard time balancing the issues of security versus our guaranteed rights. Regardless, it's a post 9/11 world and nothing will ever be the same again.

 

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

 

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

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