Geocaching Permits! What the Heck!

February 13, 2003

Read an article a friend alerted me to concerning permits to geocache in Ann Arbor, Michigan!

Anybody care to discuss this? I guess I knew this would be coming sometime. But what about hikers, ect? They need permits to use the parks, ect? I should dig the article up, eh?

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

1.5k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team KnuckleHeads:
But what about hikers, ect? They need permits to use the parks, ect?

Poor comparison. Geocache-seekers don't need permits, geocache placers do.

I imagine that you'd need to get a permit if you wanted to establish a new trail in a park...

February 13, 2003

Link the article, I think it would be interesting to read about it.

Happy. Hunting.

February 13, 2003

Poor comparison. Geocache-seekers don't need permits, geocache _placers_ do.

I imagine that you'd need to get a permit if you wanted to establish a new trail in a park...

Er, nope. Hate to bicker with ya, but BOTH need the permits, according to this article. I have to get it out and copy some into this forum for you.

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

6.4k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team KnuckleHeads:
Er, nope. Hate to bicker with ya, but BOTH need the permits, according to this article. I have to get it out and copy some into this forum for you.

A permit to carry a radio receiver? THIS I GOTTA SEE!

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

February 13, 2003

The discussion's going on at the MiGO site.... feel free to join in.

I think the permit applies to placinga cache, not going out to find them.

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

February 13, 2003

I support the permit idea. I feel also that there should be a Geocaching tax. The revenues from this should be used to form the Dept. of geocaching to watch over and regulate geocaching. Then comes the hiring of Geocops to enforce the geocaching rules. The money collected from fines could buy some really cool 4x4 hummers for the geocops to drive.

What do you think?

February 13, 2003

Here's the link I was talking about,as requested!

http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news-3/104506637686080.xml

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

1.5k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team KnuckleHeads:
Er, nope. Hate to bicker with ya, but BOTH need the permits, according to this article. I have to get it out and copy some into this forum for you.

Wow, that's surprising. Let's see that article.

February 13, 2003

I have a permit for geocaching in drag...

--majicman

My new book available now!: (http://www.mcwj.com )

5.3k · February 13, 2003

Read the article...where does it say anything about permits?

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."

February 13, 2003

The online article HARDLY goes into what the printed copy did. I am sorry , here is what I was talking about:

"The Ann Arbor Parks Advisory Commision passed a resolution Tuesday night that would require permits for those wishing to locate "geocaches" in city parks..."

also...

"The City is concerned that sensitive environmental areas could be damaged by geo-cachers tramping through the woods. The commissions resolution must go through the city's attorney's office and be passed by City Council to take effect."

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

February 13, 2003

Hmm...

the article dosen't mention anything about permit fees... try getting with Victory Mike to see what he knows about the fees, he seems to be heading up the communications with the City regarding caches. Besides, mebbe the Press got some stuff mixed up, and the fee is only to PLACE caches, not find them. How would THAT be enforced? Post a ranger at each cache to make sure each finder has their permit??

Ann Arbor seems to be willing to work with us, they just want to make sure caches aren't placed in sensitive areas, and isn't it a good idea in general for the land manager to be in with where the caches are, so they don't get blown to bits becuase they were mistaken for a bomb?!?

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

5.9k · February 13, 2003

...and that's exactly what happens when you ask a government bureaucracy for permission to do something.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team KnuckleHeads:
"The Ann Arbor Parks Advisory Commision passed a resolution Tuesday night that would require permits for those _wishing to locate_ "geocaches" in city parks..."

_also..._

Is this one of those instances where the verb "locate" could refer to "place" rather than "find" a geocache? Its a bit ambiguous.

Rich

mobilis in mobili

February 13, 2003

A tax on Geocaching is an idea that had to have come from Ted Kennedy!

Happy. Hunting.

February 13, 2003

Wow, I never thought that I would get this many responses this quick, I wish the online article had not been edited. Here is more from that article:

"..But Natural Areas Preservation Program Workers, alerted to the presence of geocaches in parks, began to notice that the trails from treasure hunters were being worn though some of the parks environmentally sensitive areas."

more...

..Because the city parks ordinance actually restricts " activities off trail, unless a permit for the activity" has been issued, it is unclear how and to whom the permits would be issued. Other outdoor enthusiasts, such as orienteers, also go off-trail for their activities, commissioners noted. And walkers and joggers do as well.

So.. there you go, the 'gists' of The Article

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

February 13, 2003

I suspect the word ''locate'' was probably used in that sentence to mean ''place'', as in ''We will permit you to locate your cache in this park''.

Newspeople often mis-quote or improperly paraphrase their sources. Best to contact the source directly for clarification.

February 13, 2003

The link to the article is actually here! I posted the wrong link. Sheesh! I am sorry!

http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news-3/104506638186080.xml

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

1.1k · February 13, 2003

My take on it is that whom ever places the acche would need the permit and I suspect they would have to have a Park Ranger help them place any permited caches.

Also, They seem to be looking at geocachers having to have permits and not hikers as they can sit back and catch cachers as they come for the goods.

Well, until the first person caught gets back and logs to the web anyway. How fast will that kill a cache?

I wonder how much they will charge for placing the cache and then for a permit to hunt the cache, as that will be next in line once the placeing of caches is permited?

Then, how fast will other cities and counties and states get onto the bandwagon?

Snowball effect I guess.

logscaler.

February 13, 2003

Jesus Chr!st!!..

A freakin license to walk in the woods...I wont even ask whats next!!

I'm tellin ya, in another 10yrs, you wont be able to wipe yer bum with out a government issued license to make sure your wiping correctly, and disposing of it properly. Of course, this will also be after they spend a billion dollars on research on the social, environmental and health issues involved.....And of course their excuse will be something like... "Just think, all the revenue generated will be used to save the whales, or subsidize all the out of work plumbers in Africa or some such nonsense"....

Can you tell how much I love the government yet?

Art

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

February 13, 2003

Or maybe I'm just invisible?

February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sparx:
Or maybe I'm just invisible?

I posted the REAL article. Just so ya know, please check it out! Ya have to go back up the posting a bit...

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

3k · February 13, 2003

Does anyone have a definition of 'environmentally sensitive area'?

I think that is a term open to subjection. I think of how huge this earth is and have a hard time understanding how a small/narrow foot path can do any sort of damage. I think of how there are such bigger issues in this world that this is trivial. Maybe its me but if these areas are so 'sensitive' then shouldn't we close down the parks and put large fences up inorder to keep people away from them?

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

February 13, 2003

quote:
_''..Because the city parks ordinance actually restricts " activities off trail, unless a permit for the activity" has been issued, it is unclear how and to whom the permits would be issued. Other outdoor enthusiasts, such as orienteers, also go off-trail for their activities, commissioners noted. And walkers and joggers do as well.''_

''Sir, are you geo-catching, or whatever they call it?''

''No, Mr. Ranger sir, I'm just going for a walk with my GPS.''

What Would Yoda Do?

24.7k · February 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team KnuckleHeads:
Read an article a friend alerted me to concerning permits to geocache in Ann Arbor, Michigan!

Anybody care to discuss this? I guess I knew this would be coming sometime. But what about hikers, ect? They need permits to use the parks, ect? I should dig the article up, eh?

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

Just great. I need a friggin permit to leave my driveway. Nazi's had permits for everthing. They can bite me and expect to start a recall drive for the stupid politician who allows it if they try that crap here and get my dander up.

Wherever you go there you are.

February 14, 2003

I'm wondering if this just isn't another attempt to TAX something, derive revenue from yet another source?

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

3.1k · February 14, 2003

It should be pointed out that the article does not mention fees, just permits, which have been put to very good effect in other park systems, such as Cleveland Metroparks. Nor were fees mentioned when the park service contacted area geocachers. Just permits to place them. Among the reasons were prescribed burns that the park performs (presumably not in eco-sensitive areas)

I doubt it's being looked at as a source of revenue. Caching fees would just prevent people from caching there altogether. Even if it didn't, what would they stand to make? $50 a year?

My only real concern is that the article could attract the attention of self-appointed enviro-cops -- which are plentiful in Ann Arbor.

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

February 14, 2003

not that i like the idea i could see how they could possibly enact laws to requiring the cache owner to get a permit, however it is impossible to require caches seekers to get permits. also considering how much traffic a frequently visited cache gets (anybody know the busiest cache?), i would suspect that hikers/joggers etc greatly outnumber cachers and that cachers may be handed the ****ty end of the stick here due to being a minority and relatively out of the mainstream.

3.1k · February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
...and that's exactly what happens when you ask a government bureaucracy for _permission_ to do something.

Maybe, but that's not how it happened in this case.

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

February 14, 2003

I used to work for the City of Ann Arbor, both as an employee at the Leslie Science Center and as a volunteer for the Natural Area Preservation group. With NAP I helped to do butterfly surveys and perscribed ecological burns. I know the people who work for NAP, and they are in the woods everday in the parks of Ann Arbor, rain, shine, snow, sleet. They are very well in tune with what is going on in the natural areas, and how they are changed. If they are seeing signs of wear, I deeply trust that observation. I believe that as a geocaching community we need to consider our ecological impacts of our actions. It means placing caches in great spots, yes, but also in area's that will not change the character of that place. We are no different then hikers, mountain bikers, dog-walkers...we must take the responsiblity ourselves.

I also know how messed up the city government is in Ann Arbor. I haven't made up my mind as far as permits for placing caches, this isn't too horrible. As for needing a permit to "be" an active geocacher...of course I oppose. But that is on the condition that as a geocaching community we put the word out that we are not going to disturb the habitat of ground nesting birds during nesting season, and not going to compact the soil on sensitive shoreline, and we continue to clean up trash and police ourselves. It is each our personal and civic duty to protect those area which we use.

Please also understand those that have not used Ann Arbor parks in the past, each spring and fall, NAP does ecological burns. These help keep down invasive plant species and help propogate native species of plants in Michigan. If you have a cache in an Ann Arbor park, and NAP is not aware that your cache is there (i.e. you didn't get it registered) it will get burned. Ammo boxes can withstand this I bet, but tupperware is going to get a little scorched. The leaf litter is burned all around as well, and your cache is likely to get exposed. So in Ann Arbor, it might not be a bad idea to tell the city you have a cache in the park, it might save it from distruction.

Grrrrrrrrr...

jackbear

February 14, 2003

Well one good thing to come of this is all caches will now be in a nice convenient, labeled box mounted on a post right at the edge of the trails. No more of that crappy trudging through or around briars, and picker bushes!

Please take everything I post with an MDOT trucks load of salt!

February 14, 2003

That's one great reason to hide members-only caches in the parks there. The parks dept will have to pay to find out where they are.

24.7k · February 14, 2003

Of course once they make it hard to place traditional caches, other types will take over. The impacts won't change. So it's better to be proactive and positive than to put the hammer down.

What would land managers do about Geodashing? Require a dash permit. "I see that you are carrying a GPS, do you have a permit? This permit was required by the great GPS Ban of 04"

"Um...No I was hoping to be able to find my way home, you see I have alzheimers and I have caches for soooo long and soooo intensly that I can remember how to find my way home by GPS... who did you say you are again?"

Wherever you go there you are.

February 14, 2003

Pennsylvania State Parks are working on something like that and so far I find it encouraging. Unlike the National Parks, they are trying to find a way to allow caching and still reducing the impact to the parks. The permit will let them know where you intend to place a cache and allow them to keep you out of sensitive area or some of the more dangerous locations. And they are talking about a two-year limit, which will require you to move or archive the cache so the area can recover. Imagine how terrific it would be if the National Parks were so reasonable.

Shoebox.

[This message was edited by Shoebox on February 14, 2003 at 01:15 PM.]

1.6k · February 14, 2003

Instead of a time limit, I'd rather see a system that checks the site for impact and then makes a determination of the move. A cache that's not visited very often will probably not ever need to be moved, while a very popular cache might need to be moved much sooner than 2 years.

CR

February 14, 2003

Also remember that the article you are reading was written by a "reporter", not someone from the city or a geocacher. Reporters quite often don't understand what they are talking about and get the details wrong. My other hobby is astronomy and it kills me to read articles about our club. They are always full of errors and misstated concepts.

Shoebox.

February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Shoebox:
Pennsylvania State Parks are working on something like that and so far I find it encouraging. Unlike the National Parks, they are trying to find a way to allow caching and still reducing the impact to the parks.

I agree. I feel that there are alot of geocachers that may feel that a cache is a permanent structure. We will have to be flexible, and responsible for the impact we create, and work with other groups to have a good time and not trash a spot. Who wants to follow the herd path to the spot anyway. Walk softly...

Grrrrrrrrr...

jackbear

February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:
It should be pointed out that the article does not mention fees, just permits, which have been put to very good effect in other park systems, such as Cleveland Metroparks. Nor were fees mentioned when the park service contacted area geocachers. Just permits to place them. Among the reasons were prescribed burns that the park performs (presumably not in eco-sensitive areas)

I doubt it's being looked at as a source of revenue. Caching fees would just prevent people from caching there altogether. Even if it didn't, what would they stand to make? $50 a year?

I have never heard of ANY kind of "FREE" permit...

After all, someone has to pay for them to be printed, and to be filed, and to be reviewed, and follow up may be needed. Which means SOMEONE has to pay.....And who better to pay than the person whose name is ON the permit...

Art

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

February 14, 2003

In California and in other states (WA and OR I think) one already needs to pay for "walking in the woods" in the form of an Adventure Pass....which is actually a pilot program and not something that people actually have to pay for (yet) - but the Forest Service won't let you know that and makes it seem as though the fee is mandatory. Since this second form of taxation is actually working for them I am not surprised that other government entities are exploring ways to do it some more.

3.1k · February 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cracker7M:
I have never heard of ANY kind of "FREE" permit...

That's unfortunate. I've already mentioned Cleveland Metroparks -- no fee for the permit there, last I heard. There's also Manistee Nat'l Forest here in MI, no fee. In all the cases I know of, these parks have just wanted to know what's going on in the park, and in a few cases, didn't want caches in certain areas of a park. The cacher mentioned in the article has said that the park service has a positive attitude toward caching, and I have also found that to be the case when parks have persued permits.

A lot of other places in the country do have serious issues with parks cracking down; this instance isn't one to bother getting upset about. It's not even anything new.

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

2.7k · February 15, 2003

Poor comparison. Geocache-seekers don't need permits, geocache _placers_ do.

Do we need permission to place Virtuals, when they are only placed on the Web, and the possible location is listed. In Larimer County CO, the Parks think you need permission to place (list) a virtual. Since when has the Freedom of Speech been revoked

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

February 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 3fros:
That's one great reason to hide members-only caches in the parks there. The parks dept will have to pay to find out where they are.

Finally a good and logical use for the MOC. The only one I have ever seen.

Capn Skully

February 17, 2003

Out of curiosity, I did a google search with the keywords: "geocaching permits" This is what I found ...

GEOCACHING PROCEDURES ARKANSAS STATE PARKS AND MUSEUMS

CACHE PERMITS: A. Placement of a cache on Department property must be secured with a permit. B. The person applying for a permit must provide a valid address, telephone number, email address, vehicle license number and the website address on which the cache will be posted. C. The exact location of the cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent/ Museum Director, whose main concern will be public safety and the prevention of undesirable impacts to natural and cultural resources. D. The exact cache location, including GPS coordinates, must be stated on the permit. E. All permits will be in effect for a period of four (4) months. The exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit. Note: If, during the four (4) month effective period of a permit, a permit holder wants to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled. F. Upon expiration of a permit, the permit holder is responsible for removing the cache and for removing the cache location from all websites and any information source. G. If the permit holder fails to remove the cache, it will be removed by park staff and held for ten (10) days, after which staff will dispose of the cache. Confiscation and disposal by park staff will be recorded in an incident report.

CACHE CONTAINERS AND CONTENTS: A. Cache containers must be non-breakable, transparent and have some form of latch or other closing mechanism to prohibit content exposure to wildlife. B. Caches may not contain inappropriate or dangerous items. Such items include, but are not limited to, food, mediations, personal/hygiene products, pornography, weapons, of any type, etc. Log books are encouraged in Arkansas State Parks/ Museums, over exchange items. C. All caches are subject to random inspection by Park Superintendents and Museum Directors. Park staff has the authority to immediately remove any item held in a cache deemed unacceptable.

CACHE LOCATIONS: A. Physical caches are prohibited inside any state park/museum facility or structure. B. The location of a cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent or Museum Director. C. Caches may not be placed in locations that may lead to the creation of spur trails. D. Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation or stones be disturbed to pace a cache. E. Caches may not be placed in dangerous, inappropriate, or protected areas and habitats, on cliffs, underground, or underwater. F. Metal detectors may not be used in cache searches.

COMPLIANCE: A. Failure to comply with park / museum guidelines will result in the revocation of effective geocaching permits. Continued failure to comply with these guidelines will prevent the issuance of any further geocaching permits to the non-compliant group or individual. B. If geocaching activities as a whole are found to have a negative impact on park resources or if safety becomes an issue in geocache searches, the Park Superintendent / Museum Director may ban geocaching from certain areas or from the entire park / museum.

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

February 17, 2003

Out of curiosity, I did a google search with the keywords: "geocaching permits" This is what I found, I know this is not for our state,yet, but I do think it would impact geocaching as a sport. What do you think?

GEOCACHING PROCEDURES ARKANSAS STATE PARKS AND MUSEUMS

CACHE PERMITS: A. Placement of a cache on Department property must be secured with a permit. B. The person applying for a permit must provide a valid address, telephone number, email address, vehicle license number and the website address on which the cache will be posted. C. The exact location of the cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent/ Museum Director, whose main concern will be public safety and the prevention of undesirable impacts to natural and cultural resources. D. The exact cache location, including GPS coordinates, must be stated on the permit. E. All permits will be in effect for a period of four (4) months. The exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit. Note: If, during the four (4) month effective period of a permit, a permit holder wants to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled. F. Upon expiration of a permit, the permit holder is responsible for removing the cache and for removing the cache location from all websites and any information source. G. If the permit holder fails to remove the cache, it will be removed by park staff and held for ten (10) days, after which staff will dispose of the cache. Confiscation and disposal by park staff will be recorded in an incident report.

CACHE CONTAINERS AND CONTENTS: A. Cache containers must be non-breakable, transparent and have some form of latch or other closing mechanism to prohibit content exposure to wildlife. B. Caches may not contain inappropriate or dangerous items. Such items include, but are not limited to, food, mediations, personal/hygiene products, pornography, weapons, of any type, etc. Log books are encouraged in Arkansas State Parks/ Museums, over exchange items. C. All caches are subject to random inspection by Park Superintendents and Museum Directors. Park staff has the authority to immediately remove any item held in a cache deemed unacceptable.

CACHE LOCATIONS: A. Physical caches are prohibited inside any state park/museum facility or structure. B. The location of a cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent or Museum Director. C. Caches may not be placed in locations that may lead to the creation of spur trails. D. Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation or stones be disturbed to pace a cache. E. Caches may not be placed in dangerous, inappropriate, or protected areas and habitats, on cliffs, underground, or underwater. F. Metal detectors may not be used in cache searches.

COMPLIANCE: A. Failure to comply with park / museum guidelines will result in the revocation of effective geocaching permits. Continued failure to comply with these guidelines will prevent the issuance of any further geocaching permits to the non-compliant group or individual. B. If geocaching activities as a whole are found to have a negative impact on park resources or if safety becomes an issue in geocache searches, the Park Superintendent / Museum Director may ban geocaching from certain areas or from the entire park / museum.

"If I had a million dollars.." I'de work at playing..

February 17, 2003

Out of curiosity, I did a google search with the keywords: "geocaching permits" This is what I found, I know this is not for our state,yet, but I do think it would impact geocaching as a sport. What do you think?

GEOCACHING PROCEDURES ARKANSAS STATE PARKS AND MUSEUMS

CACHE PERMITS: A. Placement of a cache on Department property must be secured with a permit. B. The person applying for a permit must provide a valid address, telephone number, email address, vehicle license number and the website address on which the cache will be posted. C. The exact location of the cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent/ Museum Director, whose main concern will be public safety and the prevention of undesirable impacts to natural and cultural resources. D. The exact cache location, including GPS coordinates, must be stated on the permit. E. All permits will be in effect for a period of four (4) months. The exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit. Note: If, during the four (4) month effective period of a permit, a permit holder wants to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled. F. Upon expiration of a permit, the permit holder is responsible for removing the cache and for removing the cache location from all websites and any information source. G. If the permit holder fails to remove the cache, it will be removed by park staff and held for ten (10) days, after which staff will dispose of the cache. Confiscation and disposal by park staff will be recorded in an incident report.

CACHE CONTAINERS AND CONTENTS: A. Cache containers must be non-breakable, transparent ( Transparent!? That sucks! There go my cool ammo box's! Darn!) and have some form of latch or other closing mechanism to prohibit content exposure to wildlife. B. Caches may not contain inappropriate or dangerous items. Such items include, but are not limited to, food, mediations, personal/hygiene products, pornography, weapons, of any type, etc. Log books are encouraged in Arkansas State Parks/ Museums, over exchange items. C. All caches are subject to random inspection by Park Superintendents and Museum Directors. Park staff has the authority to immediately remove any item held in a cache deemed unacceptable.

CACHE LOCATIONS: A. Physical caches are prohibited inside any state park/museum facility or structure. B. The location of a cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent or Museum Director. C. Caches may not be placed in locations that may lead to the creation of spur trails. D. Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation or stones be disturbed to pace a cache. E. Caches may not be placed in dangerous, inappropriate, or protected areas and habitats, on cliffs, underground, or underwater. F. Metal detectors may not be used in cache searches.

COMPLIANCE: A. Failure to comply with park / museum guidelines will result in the revocation of effective geocaching permits. Continued failure to comply with these guidelines will prevent the issuance of any further geocaching permits to the non-compliant group or individual. B. If geocaching activities as a whole are found to have a negative impact on park resources or if safety becomes an issue in geocache searches, the Park Superintendent / Museum Director may ban geocaching from certain areas or from the entire park / museum.

Won't be long, and this sport WILL be regulated in some manner. Yet another Freedom slips away...

"Team KnuckleHeads is in favor of Peace! NO-WAR. Kill Saddam, and Osama, but not our kids.."

[This message was edited by Team KnuckleHeads on February 17, 2003 at 03:47 PM.]

[This message was edited by Team KnuckleHeads on February 17, 2003 at 03:50 PM.]

February 17, 2003

Oooops Ignore this post.

6.5k · February 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team KnuckleHeads:
_ Out of curiosity, I did a google search with the keywords: "geocaching permits" This is what I found, I know this is not for our state,yet, but I do think it would impact geocaching as a sport. What do you think?_

GEOCACHING PROCEDURES ARKANSAS STATE PARKS AND MUSEUMS

Thats the old proposed set, the set that was actually voted in (in January no less), dropped the transperent part allowing in ammo cans, and raised the permit time from 3 to 12 months.

There are some threads right here in the forums about that. Heres just one.

1.4k · February 17, 2003

Yes, this particular park system has been in touch with Michigan geocachers about the caches in Ann Arbor parks.

They are not on a mission to shut us down and have only asked that particular caches, not all, be removed. The owners readily complied and now the parks people will work to set up a process by which we can work with them to avoid placement in these sensitive areas.

The email sent to the cache owners was very tactful and nothing if not hopeful. Here are some exerpts:

quote:
I would like to work together in a way that will benefit both of us. We will be setting up a permit system for people who want to place a geocache on park land. For caches already on park land, we would like to relocate some and register others. The caches in sensitive areas of our parks (see lists below) should be moved to more acceptable areas of the same park, or to a different site. We will cooperate with people to suggest good hiding areas. Since we work in the parks everyday I'm sure we can point out some challenging sites. For caches that are already in acceptable areas we would like to have a permit filled out for them. We have noted this on all the caches in question at geocaching.com.

So as you can see, they are not on a witch hunt. This is perfectly fair IMHO and if I were in their shoes, I'd want to protect the work I've done to make the parks a place of natural beauty.

Their concern is more along the lines of protecting sensitive areas than restricting the activity. When a group like this steps forward, addresses issues in a proactive way and WANTS to establish a permit process (with or without fees) all I can think is that it's win-win. We can keep placing caches there and keep caching there, but they want to be involved with the process of placing.

My only concerns around this is that the sensitive areas are not marked although the general "unauthorized off-trail activity is punishable by fines" clause covers this. These caches were clearly located off the trails, but the cahcers involved clearly were unaware of this ordinance and complied readily when it was pointed out.

Don't approach this from a negative perspective. This is a good thing. If anyone would like more information about this as it unfolds, please email me directly. I will be contacting the Crew Leader involved personally later this week to initiate a relationship between them and MiGO and re-inforce our willingness to work with them to answer any questions they may have about the activity and in the planning of permit processes and requirements.

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

February 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cracker7M:

I have never heard of ANY kind of "FREE" permit... /

I have permits from the Army Corps of Engineers that didn't cost me a thing.

T-storm

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Geocaching Permits! What the Heck!

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