The politically correct cache

5.9k · July 26, 2002

I am interested to know if PC caches are as big a concern as they seem to be in some of the posts I've read. I've pasted my last rant on the subject below. I'm interest to hear opinions on this subject and some ideas on the "perfect" cache in PC terms.

It's all I can do not to type IN ALL CAPS! Who cares how threatening a cache container looks!?!? My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE! There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.” ~!@# that. I became interested in geocaching because it offered adventure. Adventure can be dangerous, and so apparently is common sense. (What terrorist is going to bomb an old stump deep in the woods?) As long as it’s identified as a cache container (GEOCACHE written on the outside for example) then why worry about it? At the rate geocaching is growing it’s inevitable that someone somewhere will use the hobby or some portion thereof for an unlawful act. What then? Jeremy going to pull the plug on the whole thing? Are we going to kill it off with rules and regulations? I’ve said it before; it does NOT take a village to place a cache. I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident. I’m sure everyone is aware of recent events and won’t be putting an ammo can up in the supports of a local bridge. Duh.

I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue.

Whew, glad I got that off my chest. Sorry to all.

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What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 26, 2002

Don't confuse "politically correctness" with "environmentally resposible" or "security irreposibility". There have been many discussions on how to place a cache such that you aren't damaging wetlands or habitats. That has NOTHING to do with political correctness. There have been incidences where geocaches have taken the time and resources of bomb squads (and our court system). Discussion about ammo boxes with skulls and cross bones being placed near a resevoir isn't about offending someone with disabilities ... it's about keeping this a viable sport so you can continue to do it period.

1.7k · July 26, 2002

I strongly agree with DisQuio, a little coomon sense goes a long way about where to place caches goes a long way. I use ammo cans as cache containers, but I take 5 minutes to spray paint over the label that indicated the type of ammo it used to hold. Just so if someone finds it by accident it doesn't sppok anybody.

1.5k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE!

I don't think it is the community here that cares what they look like - moreso that they are worried about OTHERS finding the caches, and having them BLOWN UP by bomb squads or something, because it is unclear what they are.

No matter what the container, I feel it should be clearly labeled with what it is, along with the geocaching.com URL. I think most folks are just trying to keep the hobby of geocaching from becoming something feared or looked down upon from the rest of the humans.

quote:
There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.”

Yeah - this is where it gets a little more silly, imho. Any location where a cache is hidden has the potential for danger. Someone might just be a klutz and fall over their own two feet and hurt themselves while hunting a 1/1 cache - while another person may scale a mountain and get a 5/5 cache without incident.

I think it is pretty simple - if you don't like the area around a cache, don't go after it.

quote:
I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident.

*laugh*

quote:
I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue.

That was me about until about 2 years ago... work in retail for a while and you'll learn that most humans are crap. More than 50% of the customer base of the crappy store I worked in came in there only to steal, complain, tear things up, or switch price tags. My filtered view of the world changed a bit after being there a while.

But yeah, I know what ya mean... cache HIDERS are probably the cream of our crop here - people putting forth effort to continue the fun that we enjoy here. Probably 95% of the hunters that come from the site are probably good people as well - but there are the very few who enjoy stealing caches, looting items, littering on their hunts, or doing unmentionable things in filled caches.

I haven't changed how I live, but I've learned not to be surprised when people do the things they sometimes do. There are more morons in the world than I care to think about.

Umm... what was this thread about again? Sorry for the rant. heh

--== http://www.bigfoot.com/~rbatina ==--

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on July 26, 2002 at 10:23 AM.]

1.5k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE!

I don't think it is the community here that cares what they look like - moreso that they are worried about OTHERS finding the caches, and having them BLOWN UP by bomb squads or something, because it is unclear what they are.

No matter what the container, I feel it should be clearly labeled with what it is, along with the geocaching.com URL. I think most folks are just trying to keep the hobby of geocaching from becoming something feared or looked down upon from the rest of the humans.

quote:
There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.”

Yeah - this is where it gets a little more silly, imho. Any location where a cache is hidden has the potential for danger. Someone might just be a klutz and fall over their own two feet and hurt themselves while hunting a 1/1 cache - while another person may scale a mountain and get a 5/5 cache without incident.

I think it is pretty simple - if you don't like the area around a cache, don't go after it.

quote:
I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident.

*laugh*

quote:
I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue.

That was me about until about 2 years ago... work in retail for a while and you'll learn that most humans are crap. More than 50% of the customer base of the crappy store I worked in came in there only to steal, complain, tear things up, or switch price tags. My filtered view of the world changed a bit after being there a while.

But yeah, I know what ya mean... cache HIDERS are probably the cream of our crop here - people putting forth effort to continue the fun that we enjoy here. Probably 95% of the hunters that come from the site are probably good people as well - but there are the very few who enjoy stealing caches, looting items, littering on their hunts, or doing unmentionable things in filled caches.

I haven't changed how I live, but I've learned not to be surprised when people do the things they sometimes do. There are more morons in the world than I care to think about.

Umm... what was this thread about again? Sorry for the rant. heh

--== http://www.bigfoot.com/~rbatina ==--

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on July 26, 2002 at 10:23 AM.]

5.9k · July 26, 2002

That's sort of my point. To clarify:

1. I default to believing we've all got a little bit of common sense. I trust that’s more so about geocachers due to the nature of their equipment [watch yourself magicman]. I guess what I don’t like is one person telling another how to place their cache. I agree that “PC” isn’t as all encompassing as it is the way I’m using it, but I think you get the point.

2. I don’t believe in cutting down a tree to place a cache but I also don’t believe that any impact I make on the environment is necessarily negative (or evil) either.

3. I’m active duty Air Force so I certainly appreciate the security concern, but common sense, not paranoia, should be your guide.

4. I do not believe in dumbing-down a cache (or anything else) to the lowest moronic denominator.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I’m sure everyone is aware of recent events and won’t be putting an ammo can up in the supports of a local bridge. Duh.

so i should move that cache??? lol, im with you all the way here. people say "use common sense when placing a cache" i say use common sense when placing that call to the bomb squad. most of the terrorists that we are at war with today have 2 goals when blowing something up, or 3.

1. blow up alot of people

2. make sure alot of other people know about the first lot that got blown up(international headlines).

3.blow themselves up (hey no body said it was a great occupation)

so, when deciding to call the bombsquad about that scary looking package out in the middle of BFE, ask yourself these questions, who's it gonna kill, and who's gonna know about it. once you do that you should be able to tell a threat from a geocache. but just in case, i will give an example.

example one: you are out in the woods going for a walk, and happen upon an ammo box sticking partialy out of a tree. there is no one around for miles, and you can just make out GE on the box. this is;

a1: a geocache that has been recently placed and you havent found it yet (or for those nongeocachers, some stash someone hid for some reason that doesnt concern you) or

b2: a bomb that is all part of an elaborate terrorist plot to destroy americas trees.

answer a1

example 2: you are in the mall of america when you notice a container (could be anything from a box to a duffel bag) right next to a support collum in the middle of a large crowd and the guy who had been holding in five seconds ago is now making a quick gettaway.

is this;

a1: a geoca... aww heck you should get the idea by now... if the container is blinking twitching or strapped to someone in a large crowded area it might be a bomb. if its hidden out in the woods, what would be the point.

now putting on my fire retardent suit for the flamage to come. well criminal, you started it but i guess im gonna be takin the heat for it.

20.7k · July 26, 2002

We all know that tupperware has been blown up by the bomb squad as aften as ammo boxes.

Does tupperware look inherently dangerous? Could a biological threat not be hidden in a film canister? If one is truly concerned about a cache being confused as a terrorist device, they should only create/hunt virts.

Why would a terrorist not paint his ammo can/bomb pink with yellow flowers and a geocaching.com URL?

July 26, 2002

(deleted)

[This message was edited by HomerSimpsonOKC on July 29, 2002 at 08:47 AM.]

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
(snip) I trust that’s more so about geocachers due to the nature of their equipment [watch yourself magicman].

hehe

--majicman

BigSig rules to live by:

1.) Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive!

2.) There is NO... Rule #2.

3.) NEVER get "off-topic." These threads are ALL far too serious for that!

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
(snip) I trust that’s more so about geocachers due to the nature of their equipment [watch yourself magicman].

hehe

--majicman

BigSig rules to live by:

1.) Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive!

2.) There is NO... Rule #2.

3.) NEVER get "off-topic." These threads are ALL far too serious for that!

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
Why would a terrorist not paint his ammo can/bomb pink with yellow flowers and a geocaching.com URL?

Fashions change and any modern terrorist will want to keep up with latest in stylings.

I've heard rumors that Paris has released a whole new line of cache camo designs.

I've not seen them myself but if history repeats themselves the newest designs will be entirely too thin to hold anything realistically sized.

Obligatory reality: Bad people want press, a blown up bush does not press make.

July 26, 2002

quote:
Eric O'Conner writes:
Obligatory reality: Bad people want press, a blown up bush does not press make.

Well said! We, as cachers, do need to practice some common sense when placing a cache or when hunting (so we don't alarm the non-caching public). However, the country also needs to begin practicing a little common sense, even in light of 9/11.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son!

July 26, 2002

quote:
Eric O'Conner writes:
Obligatory reality: Bad people want press, a blown up bush does not press make.

Well said! We, as cachers, do need to practice some common sense when placing a cache or when hunting (so we don't alarm the non-caching public). However, the country also needs to begin practicing a little common sense, even in light of 9/11.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son!

July 26, 2002

In some ways, I can't help but feel that this is directed towards me, regarding a comment I made about plastic ammo cans being non-threatening. Considering that the outburst came directly below my statement.

We currently live in a paranoid country. It may not be what we like. I saw the following signs on my local roads. They're all over the place.

"Report any suspicious activity IMMEADIATELY to police".

yes, the IMMEADIATELY was bolded and underlined. You can see the sign itself by looking at

www.azog.org/homesec.jpg

What is considered suspicious activity? Someone standing on a bridge over an interstate taking photographs of the surrounding area? Which is just what I've most recently done.

For me, feel free to browse my caches. Most of them are "safe", because I'm still a newbie and am just doing the local radius thing.

The comment about the bridge abuttments was mildly funny, because I actually planned on placing a cache near one. But I guess I really don't think as clearly.

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I’ve said it before; it does NOT take a village to place a cache.

Geocaching is a community game in the truest sense. The manner in which people participate definitely has an effect on the pleasure that others get from it. If it wasn't a community effort then why have these forums? (for that matter - since you seem to enjoy playing with yourself - why do you even participate in these forums?). Geocaching still has very few rules - there are however many concerns that people have, and they use this forum to air them. I listen to those concerns - I learn from some - and discard some. If I do change my behaviour in response to concerns raised by some (which I have done from time to time) then I have made the game more enjoyable for other players. Additionally, for the most part we are using regulated public lands to play the game - restrictions on which could completely destroy it. Whether you like it or not, the way we behave, or are perceived to behave by others can have a real impact on Geocaching.

You can take a "to hell with you" attitude if you wish (there is no rule that says you can't) but if too many people have that attitude the game will rapidly deteriorate to the point where you will only have yourself to play with.

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

July 26, 2002

I'm a pretty keen "outdoors" person, as I imagine many geocachers are, so I was wondering about leaving small, useful items in caches I find.

One that occurs is a flint & steel, they're cheap (I've got loads lying around) and useful items, although obviously a source of ignition they aren't readily combustible like matches or the like.

Views ?

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I am interested to know if PC caches are as big a concern as they seem to be in some of the posts I've read. I've pasted my last rant on the subject below. I'm interest to hear opinions on this subject and some ideas on the "perfect" cache in PC terms.

It's all I can do not to type IN ALL CAPS! Who cares how threatening a cache container looks!?!? My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE! There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.” ~!@# that. I became interested in geocaching because it offered adventure. Adventure can be dangerous, and so apparently is common sense. (What terrorist is going to bomb an old stump deep in the woods?) As long as it’s identified as a cache container (GEOCACHE written on the outside for example) then why worry about it? At the rate geocaching is growing it’s inevitable that someone somewhere will use the hobby or some portion thereof for an unlawful act. What then? Jeremy going to pull the plug on the whole thing? Are we going to kill it off with rules and regulations? I’ve said it before; it does NOT take a village to place a cache. I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident. I’m sure everyone is aware of recent events and won’t be putting an ammo can up in the supports of a local bridge. Duh.

I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue.

Whew, glad I got that off my chest. Sorry to all.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

Turn the Caps Lock off now, and nobody will get hurt!

Maybe it's time to lighten up. Geocachers are part of their own community, and a part of the 'community' at large. We can't go around with a 'What! Me worry?' attitude. It doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that your adventure to a cache is not the same as my 3 year old nephew's, or my wife's, or my impatient 30 year old son's. Will somebody feel threatened by an ammo can in a city park? You bet. Not me, not you, but folks in general may not know what to think. Sure, you can take the Bull-in-the-Woods attitude that you don't care what Mom and Toddlers think when they stumble over an urban cache, but is it helpful to our community?

So you have a rocket box as a cache. If it's in a well-travelled spot that I can take my nephew to, I bet you will have problems with it. If it's out in some remote area that I've (by myself)hiked two hours to get to, I bet there will never be a word said. Just like real estate -- Location, location, location!

The point is (See!) all of us have to think how our caches will be perceived by folks that may stumble on them. I prefer ammo boxes, I also prefer a good hike to a cache. For high traffic areas -- use good judgment, IMHO.

Keep on Caching,

Bluespreacher

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

1.4k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I’ve said it before; it does NOT take a village to place a cache.

No, but unfortunately, the villiage idiot occasionally places one...

I couldn't care less about political correctness. I do agree, however, that common sense needs to prevail. There are a lot of paranoid goofballs running around out there that would call the bomb squad if they found something suspicious. The less suspicious we can make our caches, especially in high-traffic areas, the better. I had one old geezer threaten to call the cops a couple of days ago because I was inspecting an electric tower, looking for a clue to a cache. I bet he'd call the ATF if he found an ammo box...

Use common sense.

1.4k · July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I’ve said it before; it does NOT take a village to place a cache.

No, but unfortunately, the villiage idiot occasionally places one...

I couldn't care less about political correctness. I do agree, however, that common sense needs to prevail. There are a lot of paranoid goofballs running around out there that would call the bomb squad if they found something suspicious. The less suspicious we can make our caches, especially in high-traffic areas, the better. I had one old geezer threaten to call the cops a couple of days ago because I was inspecting an electric tower, looking for a clue to a cache. I bet he'd call the ATF if he found an ammo box...

Use common sense.

July 26, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
Don't confuse "politically correctness" with "environmentally resposible" or "security irreposibility". There have been many discussions on how to place a cache such that you aren't damaging wetlands or habitats. That has NOTHING to do with political correctness

I beg to differ. It MAY have everything to do with political correctness.

Smoochnme

"The trail will be long and full of frustrations. Life is a whole and good and evil must be accepted together"

Ralph Abele

July 26, 2002

Originally posted by Azog:

quote:
We currently live in a paranoid country. It may not be what we like. I saw the following signs on my local roads. They're all over the place.

I've never seen these signs in rural Indiana and don't expect to anytime soon. Paranoia is NOT universal in this country, yet. Give the media a little more time with all the perceived threats and maybe this will change.

I'm not trying to make light of security concerns or common sense when placing a cache. But I also don't believe in trying to guard against every conceivable negative outcome. It's not possible. People tend to get irrationally concerned over highly improbable threats (e.g. being the target of a terrorist attack) but fail to take action against very real threats that they have some direct control over (e.g. high blood pressure or heart disease). Look at the statistics. Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to watch my diet and keep on caching!

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

July 26, 2002

Originally posted by Azog:

quote:
We currently live in a paranoid country. It may not be what we like. I saw the following signs on my local roads. They're all over the place.

I've never seen these signs in rural Indiana and don't expect to anytime soon. Paranoia is NOT universal in this country, yet. Give the media a little more time with all the perceived threats and maybe this will change.

I'm not trying to make light of security concerns or common sense when placing a cache. But I also don't believe in trying to guard against every conceivable negative outcome. It's not possible. People tend to get irrationally concerned over highly improbable threats (e.g. being the target of a terrorist attack) but fail to take action against very real threats that they have some direct control over (e.g. high blood pressure or heart disease). Look at the statistics. Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to watch my diet and keep on caching!

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

24.7k · July 26, 2002

Politically correct covers a lot of ground. What's popular politically pretty much covers it. Right now, Politically correct environmentalism means using resources less effeciently. (Go figure). A simple example is the bad press the Diesel is getting. It emmits more soot (true) than gas, But overall it emits less crap and gets better MPG while doing it. In short it means less greenhouse gasses per mile and would make our oil reserves last longer than they would if we turned all crude oil into gasoline.

Sorry to say, PC is PC and it's long reach invades every corner of your life Right down to your Cache.

July 26, 2002

Common sense? Where exactly do you propose to encounter that? Let me bore you with a brief (true) anecdote:

I once knew a police dispatcher who worked in a town of about 65,000 souls. When his PD posted competitive exams for the position, he placed first out of 80 applicants. He was generally considered to be good at his job by the officers he directed (his superiors also rated him highly, but who cares what the bosses think?). I mention this only to establish that he was a generally clueful individual who made his living attempting to extract useful facts from those who did "call the cops."

I recall very clearly his comment about common sense:

"If there was a single ounce of common sense evenly divided among the population, I'd be out of a job."

His continued employment was never at risk.

"Decision making factor absent from brain"

July 26, 2002

...if the local bomb squad blew up my cache. less chance of them tracing it back to me. and btw Convict, i'm with ya on this one, it DOESN'T take a village to hide a cache, lol.

having to do what the voices in my wifes head tell me to do...

July 26, 2002

...if the local bomb squad blew up my cache. less chance of them tracing it back to me. and btw Convict, i'm with ya on this one, it DOESN'T take a village to hide a cache, lol.

having to do what the voices in my wifes head tell me to do...

July 27, 2002

Political correctness should be a crime. Honesty, consideration, initiative and tolerance are the values that are important.

Call a spade a spade, but have the consideration not to do it in front of the Queen of hearts.

5.9k · July 27, 2002

Seneca and a couple of others have put a lot of effort into NOT getting the point, so I’ll give it one more try.

It does not take a village to place a cache means any one of us can place a cache at any REASONABLE location. We do not have to pre-inspect the site and remove any and all possible hazards. We do not have to clear it through the environmentalists first. That what the ratings are for! Would you take your 3 year old to find a 5/5? YOU have the responsibility to determine the difficulty level you and your group can handle. Remember, this was a rant about a number of specific threads in different posts. The target is the extreme view that threatens to “dumb down” every cache to a 1/1.

I absolutely agree that we should view a potential cache through the eyes of a non-cacher; how would they react to finding the container. Ammo can placed smack-dab in the middle of a city park or in the supports of a bridge? That’s what the DUH was for. I like to believe we’re all intelligent enough to know what’s appropriate and what is not. We should not, however, attempt to dictate what and how caches should be placed. Common sense, remember?

My favorite part of this game is the creativity I see people use (creativity I like to use) with regard to cache containers and placement. I simply don’t want to be mothered into colorlessness. I am afraid we may end up with rules so constricting there’s no more ingenuity left in geocaching.

The part where I say “I don’t care” was also misinterpreted. I don’t care if there are a few who say I shouldn’t use ammo cans or place it in the precious, pristine, forest. I’ll place my caches where and how I want, confident in my own common sense.

BTW, nobody responded to the other part of the post, what would be the most PC cache container and placement.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 27, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I’ll place my caches where and how I want, confident in my own common sense.

Who’s stopping you? There are a few general guidelines that Jeremy has posted as to what is and is not appropriate for the placing of caches and the contents of caches. Aside from those guidelines, I agree, one should rely on their "common sense" . But where do you get your "common sense"? I get it from learning - sometimes from personal experience but more often from the experiences and wisdom of others (an interesting thing that we humans do - teach and learn).

I agree with you - it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to place a cache - however there are numerous things that sensible people can do right AND wrong.

EXAMPLE: The second cache I placed (after having been a Geocacher for just over a month) was along the side of a well kept, newly landscaped path that was retained by a number of good sized rocks. I hid the cache under one of these rocks, and gave a description of the precise location in the clue. It sure felt like I was acting with common sense. The next thing, I was getting reports from cachers that every rock in the area was being overturned and the place was a mess. I immediately went to the cache and was horrified that the placement of my cache was wreaking havoc on the landscaping. I moved the cache to a more sensible area. I have mentioned this story a few times on the forums. I wish I had read a similar story to have learned from others before I had relied on my own "common sense" to place the cache.

Now, Criminal, maybe you would not have been as stupid as me - maybe your natural common sense (which you appear to have been born with) would have clearly prevented you from placing a cache under a rock along a path. But most people get their common sense by listening to others - this forum is a great place for that.

EXAMPLE: In your last post, you have just advised us that:

"My favorite part of this game is the creativity I see people use (creativity I like to use) with regard to cache containers and placement"

I could respond by saying

"dadgum it , why should I have to be "creative" - just to please some other Geocacher - "creative" yechhh - how sucky! - I get sick and tired of "creative" - it sounds sooooo PC .- please don’t tell me to be "creative" - I will just place my caches as I please, using my own common sense thank you very much."

But that’s not how I would respond - instead I will now remember that creativity is something some cachers particularly like - and I will try to remember that next time I place a cache. I know it sounds like common sense - but the only caches I have placed so far have not been the least bit creative - I have concentrated on having them in nice locations - but maybe the next cache will be creative - thanks for the input Criminal.

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

[This message was edited by seneca on July 27, 2002 at 12:44 PM.]

5.9k · July 29, 2002

Uh-oh, now it's PVC pipe.......

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=7290965504

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 29, 2002

Originally posted by Criminal:
Uh-oh, now it's PVC pipe.......

QUOTE]

And plastic bags around caches:

Plastic bags

Oh, wait, Criminal...you weigh in against them. Now who's telling us what to do?

evilrooster

-the email of the species is deadlier than the mail-

July 29, 2002

Originally posted by Criminal:
Uh-oh, now it's PVC pipe.......

QUOTE]

And plastic bags around caches:

Plastic bags

Oh, wait, Criminal...you weigh in against them. Now who's telling us what to do?

evilrooster

-the email of the species is deadlier than the mail-

5.9k · July 29, 2002

Not I! Do what yo be wantin!

I iz way too eazy goin to be tellin any-yo's what yo should be gwine do.

My point over and over and over and over is HAVE FUN!

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 29, 2002

...

[This message was edited by Team Screamapillar on July 29, 2002 at 05:57 PM.]

July 29, 2002

This cache is a woven hemp basket inspired by the artistry of the Lakota Sioux, acquired in barter at the Happy Carrot Co-op. It is waterproofed with organic free-range beeswax and decorated with a rainbow of children in wheelchairs joining in non-violent, cooperative activities such as square-dancing and parachute play.

The cache itself is located in a burial ground filled with dead white male oppressors and the womyn and children whose minds they poisoned.

As Bette Midler said : F*** 'em if they can't take a joke. []

July 29, 2002

This cache is a woven hemp basket inspired by the artistry of the Lakota Sioux, acquired in barter at the Happy Carrot Co-op. It is waterproofed with organic free-range beeswax and decorated with a rainbow of children in wheelchairs joining in non-violent, cooperative activities such as square-dancing and parachute play.

The cache itself is located in a burial ground filled with dead white male oppressors and the womyn and children whose minds they poisoned.

As Bette Midler said : F*** 'em if they can't take a joke. []

July 29, 2002

lets all get naked and smoke a joint!

July 29, 2002

lets all get naked and smoke a joint!

5.9k · July 29, 2002

________________________________________

As Bette Midler said : F*** 'em if they can't take a joke. [

_________________________________________

There may be a lot of F***ing gwine on then, unfortunately it excludes me.....

As for the joint, the military frowns on that sort of thing. Never having partaken in the activity I imagine it would add an interesting (and illegal for most) aspect to the game. There's another topic: Illicit drug induced geo-stumbling.....

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

5.9k · July 29, 2002

________________________________________

As Bette Midler said : F*** 'em if they can't take a joke. [

_________________________________________

There may be a lot of F***ing gwine on then, unfortunately it excludes me.....

As for the joint, the military frowns on that sort of thing. Never having partaken in the activity I imagine it would add an interesting (and illegal for most) aspect to the game. There's another topic: Illicit drug induced geo-stumbling.....

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 29, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I'm interest to hear opinions on this subject and some ideas on the "perfect" cache in PC terms.

Two new caches went up in my area, but they are hidden "along well traveled paths used by children, dogs, and their companions." I live next to a park like this and as a teacher and parent, I would be very wary of strangers poking around the bushes at odd times. By looking at logs books, I was surprised to see that some cachers hunt in the wee hours of the morning or late at night. I'm sure that these folks are decent and law-abiding, but I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood park.

Why wouldn't I want strangers in my neighborhood? With the rash of child abductions I don't want to worry about keeping an eye on folks I don't know. Furthermore, in So. Cal. there have been incidents of people "booby trapping" play equipment with razor blades and nails. If I saw some one poking around the bushes or play equipment, I would be wary, indeed.

For the love of GAWD, keep the caches in out of the way areas. What you keep them in I could care less. Well, trash bags suck, but that's just me.

5.9k · July 29, 2002

I should probably leave that one alone but…….

You are right to be concerned for children, but strangers could be perverts or cachers, without the geocache there’d be only the perverts. My point is that there are strangers poking around everywhere, not just in parks. You may see them or you may not. The cache placement doesn’t increase the risk that’s always there. I would venture that it would decrease the risk as there will be more people moving about. The sleazeballs prefer to work where they cannot be discovered.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

July 30, 2002

From the first few posts in this thread I have to say I agree to some extent with each side of the issue. Reading the thread, last night, about Novel Containers, I have been inspired by the creativity of people to place their caches in the environment. From, very effective, camoflaged paint jobs to fake squirrels, birdhouses and foam tree stumps made from 5 gal buckets. If a person wants to use PVC, or an ammo box or the container from a old army rocket that should be their choice. However, for the good of the hobby and the understanding of the real possibility that uninformed people could stumble on our caches, I think the placers of caches should use some common sense to properly and effectively place and label their cache so that it isn't easilly stumbled accross casually or so that if found it can be understood that it poses no harm. Also, it should be strongly stressed to the seekers that they MUST place the cache back where they found it, as close to the original concelement as possible. That way people won't find your cammo rocket tube sitting on a nearby picnic table or along side a trail where anybody can find it and get nervous.

I definately agree that there is a big part of this sport/activity/hobby that involves adventure and I hope people will not over react and take that quality out of their cache designs and placements.

I think some public education on the hobby and what it is about might be of great value. Some might think there is a potential for over promotion where devient people might be encouraged to get involved and do the acts that make some of us a bit cautious and concerned. Thus, maybe it is appropriate to make much of the public discovery a little more gradual and pursued more by those interested rather than thrust on the public as a whole. However it might make sense to get enough publicity out there about what a cache is. For many reasons, local GeoCaching clubs and organizations might go to their Forest Preserve Districts, National and State Parks and Forests, Law Enforcement and Fire Protection and explain the concept of the game. Explain how it works and show them or give them a booklet of common cache designs and markings and help them to understand what they might encounter. Help the innitial responders to be able to see a container and immediately recognize it as a benign cache so that the next call isn't to mutual aid for a bomb disposal or hazmat team. In addition it should be encouraged that every cache owner should make sure that they label their caches with at least certain minimal pieces of information to help in that identification. I have not found my first cache yet so I don't have much experience with this yet but I would like to know how often do people find unmarked caches. Is that really a big problem? I heard one person mentioning an ammo box with it's original markings etc. I agree that perhaps that is not wise. If I, by accident, came accross a box that said 7.62mm or 50 caliber and whatever other military indicators and markings or a tube that was marked as a tube for an anti aircraft round(maybe extreme example here) just sitting along side an intersection or on a bicycle trail I might get a little concerned. Actually, I wouldn't because I have some military knowlege but not everyone knows the nature of these items as common surplus items. We can't assume that every casual jogger, hiker or skiier knows what these things are.

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE!

I don't think it is the community here that cares what they look like - moreso that they are worried about OTHERS finding the caches, and having them BLOWN UP by bomb squads or something, because it is unclear what they are.

No matter what the container, I feel it should be clearly labeled with what it is, along with the geocaching.com URL. I think most folks are just trying to keep the hobby of geocaching from becoming something feared or looked down upon from the rest of the humans.

quote:
There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.”

Yeah - this is where it gets a little more silly, imho. Any location where a cache is hidden has the potential for danger. Someone might just be a klutz and fall over their own two feet and hurt themselves while hunting a 1/1 cache - while another person may scale a mountain and get a 5/5 cache without incident.

I think it is pretty simple - if you don't like the area around a cache, don't go after it.

quote:
I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident.

*laugh*

quote:
I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue.

That was me about until about 2 years ago... work in retail for a while and you'll learn that most humans are crap. More than 50% of the customer base of the crappy store I worked in came in there only to steal, complain, tear things up, or switch price tags. My filtered view of the world changed a bit after being there a while.

But yeah, I know what ya mean... cache HIDERS are probably the cream of our crop here - people putting forth effort to continue the fun that we enjoy here. Probably 95% of the hunters that come from the site are probably good people as well - but there are the very few who enjoy stealing caches, looting items, littering on their hunts, or doing unmentionable things in filled caches.

I haven't changed how I live, but I've learned not to be surprised when people do the things they sometimes do. There are more morons in the world than I care to think about.

Umm... what was this thread about again? Sorry for the rant. heh

--== http://www.bigfoot.com/~rbatina ==--

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on July 26, 2002 at 10:23 AM.]

July 30, 2002

From the first few posts in this thread I have to say I agree to some extent with each side of the issue. Reading the thread, last night, about Novel Containers, I have been inspired by the creativity of people to place their caches in the environment. From, very effective, camoflaged paint jobs to fake squirrels, birdhouses and foam tree stumps made from 5 gal buckets. If a person wants to use PVC, or an ammo box or the container from a old army rocket that should be their choice. However, for the good of the hobby and the understanding of the real possibility that uninformed people could stumble on our caches, I think the placers of caches should use some common sense to properly and effectively place and label their cache so that it isn't easilly stumbled accross casually or so that if found it can be understood that it poses no harm. Also, it should be strongly stressed to the seekers that they MUST place the cache back where they found it, as close to the original concelement as possible. That way people won't find your cammo rocket tube sitting on a nearby picnic table or along side a trail where anybody can find it and get nervous.

I definately agree that there is a big part of this sport/activity/hobby that involves adventure and I hope people will not over react and take that quality out of their cache designs and placements.

I think some public education on the hobby and what it is about might be of great value. Some might think there is a potential for over promotion where devient people might be encouraged to get involved and do the acts that make some of us a bit cautious and concerned. Thus, maybe it is appropriate to make much of the public discovery a little more gradual and pursued more by those interested rather than thrust on the public as a whole. However it might make sense to get enough publicity out there about what a cache is. For many reasons, local GeoCaching clubs and organizations might go to their Forest Preserve Districts, National and State Parks and Forests, Law Enforcement and Fire Protection and explain the concept of the game. Explain how it works and show them or give them a booklet of common cache designs and markings and help them to understand what they might encounter. Help the innitial responders to be able to see a container and immediately recognize it as a benign cache so that the next call isn't to mutual aid for a bomb disposal or hazmat team. In addition it should be encouraged that every cache owner should make sure that they label their caches with at least certain minimal pieces of information to help in that identification. I have not found my first cache yet so I don't have much experience with this yet but I would like to know how often do people find unmarked caches. Is that really a big problem? I heard one person mentioning an ammo box with it's original markings etc. I agree that perhaps that is not wise. If I, by accident, came accross a box that said 7.62mm or 50 caliber and whatever other military indicators and markings or a tube that was marked as a tube for an anti aircraft round(maybe extreme example here) just sitting along side an intersection or on a bicycle trail I might get a little concerned. Actually, I wouldn't because I have some military knowlege but not everyone knows the nature of these items as common surplus items. We can't assume that every casual jogger, hiker or skiier knows what these things are.

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE!

I don't think it is the community here that cares what they look like - moreso that they are worried about OTHERS finding the caches, and having them BLOWN UP by bomb squads or something, because it is unclear what they are.

No matter what the container, I feel it should be clearly labeled with what it is, along with the geocaching.com URL. I think most folks are just trying to keep the hobby of geocaching from becoming something feared or looked down upon from the rest of the humans.

quote:
There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.”

Yeah - this is where it gets a little more silly, imho. Any location where a cache is hidden has the potential for danger. Someone might just be a klutz and fall over their own two feet and hurt themselves while hunting a 1/1 cache - while another person may scale a mountain and get a 5/5 cache without incident.

I think it is pretty simple - if you don't like the area around a cache, don't go after it.

quote:
I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident.

*laugh*

quote:
I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue.

That was me about until about 2 years ago... work in retail for a while and you'll learn that most humans are crap. More than 50% of the customer base of the crappy store I worked in came in there only to steal, complain, tear things up, or switch price tags. My filtered view of the world changed a bit after being there a while.

But yeah, I know what ya mean... cache HIDERS are probably the cream of our crop here - people putting forth effort to continue the fun that we enjoy here. Probably 95% of the hunters that come from the site are probably good people as well - but there are the very few who enjoy stealing caches, looting items, littering on their hunts, or doing unmentionable things in filled caches.

I haven't changed how I live, but I've learned not to be surprised when people do the things they sometimes do. There are more morons in the world than I care to think about.

Umm... what was this thread about again? Sorry for the rant. heh

--== http://www.bigfoot.com/~rbatina ==--

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on July 26, 2002 at 10:23 AM.]

July 30, 2002

so, when deciding to call the bombsquad about that scary looking package out in the middle of BFE, ask yourself these questions, who's it gonna kill, and who's gonna know about it. once you do that you should be able to tell a threat from a geocache.

Like I said in my other post, with the youth of this hobby it can't be assumed that people who have casual encounters with a GeoCache will know what GeoCache means. Therefore it, I believe, would be best advice to reach out to your the officials who might encounter your cache during the course of their duties. Think of who the casual jogger or skiier... will contact when they find this suspicious looking container. That might be Parks Rangers or Superintendants. Police, Sheriff, Fire Dept... Reach out to these people and educate them on the nature of a GeoCache. Remember, The average jogger isn't going to call information on their cellphone and say Bomb Squad please. They are going to call the police, sheriff, fire department or whatever. That agency will likely send out an officer or other advance person who will assess the situation. In my area, in the case of fire, that would be maybe one or two fire depts with associated equipment etc. Those people will eather return all other responders or will call in for aditional alarms or Boxes (mutual assist). If they see that it is a geocache they might laugh it off and go home. If it is something that can't be identified or confirmed they would then call in hazmat or bomb squad. I would question whether an ammo box labled 50 caliber... would be a hazmat? Or is it something for Bomb Squad. Just a side point here, It is incredable sometimes what can be percieved as a hazerdous material. I have heard of incidents of spilled cleaning chemicals in grocery stores etc. being called out as hazmat. Break a thermometer at the drug store? Could get called out as Haz Mat.

July 30, 2002

so, when deciding to call the bombsquad about that scary looking package out in the middle of BFE, ask yourself these questions, who's it gonna kill, and who's gonna know about it. once you do that you should be able to tell a threat from a geocache.

Like I said in my other post, with the youth of this hobby it can't be assumed that people who have casual encounters with a GeoCache will know what GeoCache means. Therefore it, I believe, would be best advice to reach out to your the officials who might encounter your cache during the course of their duties. Think of who the casual jogger or skiier... will contact when they find this suspicious looking container. That might be Parks Rangers or Superintendants. Police, Sheriff, Fire Dept... Reach out to these people and educate them on the nature of a GeoCache. Remember, The average jogger isn't going to call information on their cellphone and say Bomb Squad please. They are going to call the police, sheriff, fire department or whatever. That agency will likely send out an officer or other advance person who will assess the situation. In my area, in the case of fire, that would be maybe one or two fire depts with associated equipment etc. Those people will eather return all other responders or will call in for aditional alarms or Boxes (mutual assist). If they see that it is a geocache they might laugh it off and go home. If it is something that can't be identified or confirmed they would then call in hazmat or bomb squad. I would question whether an ammo box labled 50 caliber... would be a hazmat? Or is it something for Bomb Squad. Just a side point here, It is incredable sometimes what can be percieved as a hazerdous material. I have heard of incidents of spilled cleaning chemicals in grocery stores etc. being called out as hazmat. Break a thermometer at the drug store? Could get called out as Haz Mat.

July 30, 2002

quote:
So you have a rocket box as a cache. If it's in a well-travelled spot that I can take my nephew to, I bet you will have problems with it.

Your point just made me realize something. While some have argued that an ammo box or PVC Pipe or Rocket Box would not make sense to be a bomb or other dangerous item when in the forest in a hallow tree... One of the same posters mentioned in his "Examples" a stash that is of no interest to you so not dangerous. Whats to say that the stash isn't intended to blow up the tree but might be somebody hiding some materials so that it can be retreived later for some harm. Could be a hazerdous material or explosive. Weapons or Biological agent. Maybe somebody doesn't want it in their home because they would not want it found in their possession but wants it near enough that they can retreive it when needed. Maybe they aren't that great at hiding things that a casual jogger etc. finds it.

Might seem that probable but to some it might be a rational assesment of something that is unknown to them.

July 30, 2002

dadgum, something is wrong. The hiddeous typos I have been writing lately. I apologize for the lack of accuracy and clarity in some of my comments. The last part of the cited post here should read that Might NOT seem that probable but to some it might be a rational assesment of something that is unknown to them.[/

quote:
Originally posted by wmas1960:

quote:
_So you have a rocket box as a cache. If it's in a well-travelled spot that I can take my nephew to, I bet you will have problems with it. _

Your point just made me realize something. While some have argued that an ammo box or PVC Pipe or Rocket Box would not make sense to be a bomb or other dangerous item when in the forest in a hallow tree... One of the same posters mentioned in his "Examples" a stash that is of no interest to you so not dangerous. Whats to say that the stash isn't intended to blow up the tree but might be somebody hiding some materials so that it can be retreived later for some harm. Could be a hazerdous material or explosive. Weapons or Biological agent. Maybe somebody doesn't want it in their home because they would not want it found in their possession but wants it near enough that they can retreive it when needed. Maybe they aren't that great at hiding things that a casual jogger etc. finds it.

Might seem that probable but to some it might be a rational assesment of something that is unknown to them.

5.9k · July 30, 2002

Life is a scary thing.......

Seriously though, the BEST and SIMPLEST solution is to label the cache container with “Geocache Site See www.geocaching.com for details oh how to play”. Or something like that.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

The politically correct cache

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