Alternate Mosquito Repellents - Backpacker Mag. Article

July 4, 2003

Awhile back someone posted about the "Hazards of DEET". A debate began and some folks were skeptics about alternate types of mosquito repellent. They refuse to believe that even though DEET is known to peel paint, melt plastic, and cause psychological problems, it is still a better way to repel mosquitos than alternate organic types of repellents.

I stumbled across this article today while browsing through backpacker.com and thought some people would find it interesting. Take it for what you will. After seeing DEET melt the plastic on my pocket knife, I have avoided using DEET at all costs. I have found a hemp based repellent that has eucolyptus and bay in it that works as well as DEET. If I have to use DEET I use the lowest concentration that I can find. Everything in moderation, and I try to reserve the use of DEET to only when absolutely necessary. Have a good one.

http://www.backpacker.com/technique/article/0,1026,1999,00.html

Aronius

Farewell Mother Hips....for now.

[This message was edited by Aronius on July 04, 2003 at 10:48 PM.]

24.7k · July 4, 2003

Must be a new study. Everything I've ever read only shows that DEET is the best there is. Other things work but you have to slather up twice as thick for half the result.

Chemicals are chemicals. Organic or not. DEET has at least been studied and we know the side effects. Including melting plastic.

July 5, 2003

I don't think it's a new study. reading the article, it appears it was the manufactures that did the studies.

As for the Repel lemon stuff they mentioned, I've already tried that and think it attracts mosquitoes, and yellow jackets.

If anyone does actually find something that works good, I hope they'll share brand names, places to buy etc. Even heavy DEET seems to come up short on occasion.

2.7k · July 5, 2003

I used to have a recipe for homemande bug dope. But have lost it over time. It basically had oil of lemon, oil of sweet, citronella, etc. and was mixed with vaseline.

Oh you were a greasy bugger in the woods but the bugs didn't bite and it didn't run off the the heat & humidity.

I personally use low to no concentrations of deet. But with the West Nile Virus that is spreading around, we have to think a different approach on our battle with these little pests.

I found some web links that may be helpful.

one,two and three.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

July 5, 2003

Asking a manufacturer to test his own product as like asking a politician whether he's honest.

Tests on these types of products done by third-parties (like Consumer Reports) consistently show that they don't work nearly as well as DEET. "Effective for 6-8 hours" may mean that there's a 50% reduction in bites in the first hour, dwindling down to a 10% reduction in the last few hours. In a time when a single mosquito bite can make you sick, it's not necessarily wise to take chances.

Yes, DEET dissolves plastic. So what? Are you made of plastic? You want to see something scary, mix vinegar with baking soda some time (and we EAT that stuff?).

Deet has been used by millions of people for decades, with extremely few complications. When you consider how many people have died from malaria during that same time, you'll see that DEET is a life-saver - literally.

It's all about risk-assessment. If you'd rather risk getting West Nile Virus, by all means, don't use DEET. For what it's worth, West Nile Virus isn't as bad as it's been cracked up to be (80% of people who are infected won't even become sick). But there's still a risk for that small percentage (around .75%) that they'll become extremely sick, with tremors, convulsions and paralysis a possibility. When you weigh that against the possibility DEET might give you a temporary skin rash, I'll go with DEET.

July 5, 2003

You could try an old Seminole Indian recipe. It's fish based, alligator or long nose gar work best. Put the fish in a large pot and boil them down to a goo. Smear this on your body and the bugs can't stand you. Niether can people but that aint so bad sometimes!

38.2k · July 6, 2003

The latest study I saw (I think it was from the AMA, but can't be certain) said these alternative "repellents" simply aren't effective and the only reliable repellent was DEET.

You really have to take an article like this with a grain of salt. Of course the manufacturer is going to claim their product is effective. I had a friend who was using Natrapel on a Allagash canoe trip. It took about 15 minutes before he asked me to borrow some of my Deep Woods Off!

Malaria, West Nile Virus, Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever, Lyme, Babesiosis, Ehrlichiosis. Hmmmm, I think I'll take my chances with DEET.

I once read that some Indians smeared their bodies with bear fat to repel bugs. Now that's pretty disgusting.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on July 06, 2003 at 04:55 AM.]

3.9k · July 6, 2003

I have been scared of deet for years and refused to use it...until west nile virus raised it's ugly head. I've heard all the horror stories of deet but finally took the plunge. I squirted my self down with it and stood stock still waiting on the adverse reaction that would send me to my knees grasping my throat trying to get in a breath of air. Alas! No reaction. Go figure!

An alternative to deet is Avon's Skin So Soft. It contains no deet and is effective. The draw back is that it only last and hour at best. The plus side is that it contains sunblock and it makes you smell good.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

July 7, 2003

I spray teh stuff on the bill of my ballcap that I wear when I go out....

but if you're concerned about it melting plastic....have you seen what Coke and pepsi do to rust? And some of us drink that stuff!

Deet spray it on the Bill of a ball cap, and if you need more. tie a Bandana to your pack that is sprayed....

Give me a Tall ship, and a Star to steer her bye...

The White Fleet....

5.3k · July 7, 2003

1st. I would not consider an article in Back Packer re any product to be very reliable. Back packer does not do scientific studies.

2nd. Read the New England journal of Med Article, if you want protection uses DEET.

6.4k · July 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Johnnyvegas:
1st. I would not consider an article in Back Packer re any product to be very reliable. Back packer does not do scientific studies.

2nd. Read the New England journal of Med Article, if you want protection uses DEET.

I'm with Johnny on this one. Backpacker didn't even do the most basic of realworld tests. The article just regurgitates the manfacturer's claims for the product. If I were to take every published claim at face-value, For just 4 easy payments of $9.99 (plus S/H) I could lose 25lbs by popping a pill, buy a mansion and a yacht for no money down, get an exotic sports car at auction for $500, and become the most attractive man on earth with just a spritz of cologne.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

July 7, 2003

When DEET corroded the plastic frames on my husband's glasses six years ago, we decided it wasn't for us. We have found a couple of alternatives:

We first used Green Ban, an Australian product. It works very well but it does have a strong piney/tea-tree oil scent that you may or may not want to wear. A couple of years ago at the beach we found an awesome product called Cactus Juice that works as both a sunscreen and bug repellent. It's a little pricey, but it's all-natural and I have never been bitten while wearing it. It's not greasy and it has the added benefit of being a good skin conditioner. It doesn't have the heavy smell of Skin-so-soft, just a light citrusy scent. The only drawback I can think of is that the citrus smell might attract bees, but I have never been stung while wearing it even when I discovered a major bee colony. I love this stuff so much that I bought a case of travel sizes and give them to my friends and leave them in caches all the time.

Note: I have no connection with the merchants I'm linking to, I just used both of these products and found them very good.

Another, even more natural solution is to take lots of vitamin B. A friend's grandfather was a biologist who traveled to the Amazon a lot for research. He was the only one in his group who didn't get malaria and he chalks it up to the massive doses of vitamin B he would take before and during each trip. The vitamin B makes you smell and taste bad to the bugs (personally I think it makes you smell bad, period, but it's a subtle smell). I've also heard that white vinegar is a good non-smelly bug repellent, but you'd have to reapply it pretty often.

July 7, 2003

We have used Green Ban, Skin so Soft, (we call it Skin so tasty, this has go to be the WORST repellant, in our opinion, never works for us) and countless others, even eating garlic the night before hiking with little or no success. The only product that seems to work for us, at least some of the time, is deet. We use it with no fear, but avoid getting it on our plastic items. We have two kinds of deet spray. One is Ben's 100% deet, in the orange bottle, and the other is a 29% deet spray, (Repel, I think)in a little green and white spray can. We'll start off with the 29% spray, then switch to the 100% if need be.

I think if the little vampires are hungry enough, they'll get you no matter what you put on to repel them.

38.2k · July 7, 2003

Although many people swear by Skin-So-Soft, researchers have never been to demonstrate its effectiveness. In fact all evidence has shown that it is not effective as a repellent.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

July 7, 2003

Re: Skin so soft:

yes, the effictiveness (or lack thereof) has been measured. See Snope's article regarding mosquito repellents. Here's an extract of the page:

******************

According to the first study to scientifically compare a wide range of products for their effectiveness in repelling mosquitoes, most insect repellents containing herbal oils proved far less effective than those containing DEET. This study appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine in July 2002.

Mark Fradin and Jonathan Day of the University of Florida tested 17 nationally marketed mosquito repelling products under laboratory conditions. They asked 15 volunteers to stick a forearm coated with repellent into a cage containing 10 mosquitoes and observed how much time elapsed before the first bite. Products containing DEET repelled best, and the more DEET they contained, the better they worked. Off! Deep Woods, which contains 23.8 percent DEET, provided the longest-lasting protection: 302 minutes on average. By contrast, Avon Skin-So-Soft Bath Oil failed after 9.6 minutes, on average.

For decades rumor has held that Skin-So-Soft Bath Oil is an effective counter to mosquitoes, yet a 1993 Consumer Reports analysis found it ineffective for that purpose. Because so many people were buying the product for its purported mosquito combating properties, in 1994 Avon added a non-DEET repellent and a sunscreen to the popular bath oil and began marketing the new concoction as Avon Skin-So-Soft Bug Guard Repellent. Avon disputes the 2002 results posted in the New England Journal of Medicine study, claiming its Bug Guard Repellent works for three hours, not the 10.3 minutes for its Bug Guard Repellent and the 22.9 minutes for its Bug Guard Repellent Plus the study found, but a 2003 Consumer Reports analysis found the Skin-So-Soft repellent deterred mosquitoes for only one hour.

**************

Hmm.. I wonder if there's a small percentage of the population where some stuff *does* actually work, due to specific body chemistry. You always hear of ppl (and I'm one of them) who are 'mosquito magnets', while others are hardly bugged at all.

Plus, when you get into the use of essential oils, you're still playing with stuff that can be toxic/harmful in large enough quantities, or used in the wrong way, or ingested. Even some herbs/spices can melt plastic(though not nearly as quickly as deet)... I used to keep dried herbs and spices in plastic baggies in a plastic hardware orginization box... I think it was either star anice or cloves that started melting the plastic bin it was in!

Me, I'm stickin' with my Deep Woods Off. None of the alternate remedies works for me.

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

[This message was edited by Squirrel Nut on July 07, 2003 at 10:10 AM.]

July 7, 2003

I am ready to try anything. I have tried the garlic sups, the Vitamin B sups, the natural lotion stuff I shipped from England that all the celebs said was "hot", even Deep Woods Off. I sat one night with the can off DW off in my hand spraying it on me every 5 minutes. Still got swarmed. My neighbor who I was talking to had swarms on her, but either never gets bit, or is immune to the itch!

My only remedy: sweat pants or scrub pants and long sleeve shirt and my mosquito net hat. I live near Houston..since we started geocaching, my kids have skeeter bites all over legs now.

Like I said, I will try anything at this point!

July 7, 2003

I spent the 4th of july at a friend of mine's land, its about 80 acres (mostly wooded) in the middle of nowhere, Central Florida. The bugs are horrendous out there. I decided to give it a shot and bought some 100% DEET spray (OFF brand) and used it. Another person used something "herbal", mine claimed to hold for 10 hours, theirs for 8. We were out there for ~6hours in the dark, bugs got bad. I felt bugs all over me all night. The Next next day, i had *NO* bites and the other person had ~20 all over their legs and arms.

So, take what you will from that, DEET seems to work for me.

24.7k · July 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Although many people swear by Skin-So-Soft, researchers have never been to demonstrate its effectiveness. In fact all evidence has shown that it is not effective as a repellent.

_"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry_

Consumer Reports did a study and Skin So Soft did work. Just not well. DEET won hands down. By an large I've found if you bring a Nordic Blond along in a party of Brunettes the Brunettes will have great protection. I don't know why this is and it really isn't to much fun for the Blonde.

July 7, 2003

Hmmm... I've always been a bug magnet (and no, sorry, I'm not a Nordic blonde) but the Green Ban and Cactus Juice have both worked well for me.

July 7, 2003

Okay, after this weekends cache hunting, I've once again flip flopped, and decided mosquitoes really aren't much of a problem (My opinion varies with the area and season ) I really need to find something that works good against those darned horseflies. I did a 15 mile hike (Cache hunt and hide), wearing my DEET bug spray, and litteraly got eaten alive. My legs were a bloody mess from the chunks they were taking out of me. At the moment, I'm not sure I'm concerned about long term risks. Getting chunks removed from me can't be healthy, and I've got to wonder what nice place these guys were prior to paying me a call. I think I'm willing to try about anything if it actually will work.

July 7, 2003

I recently read an article in a women's magazine that says catnip keeps mosquitos away. I don't know if this is true or not, but I intend to test it out. Will post my results if anyone's interested?

I am ready to give up on caching till after the bugs are dead with the first good frost or cold snap. Went out this weekend smothered in Skin So Soft and then in Skintastic, and I am covered from head to toe in bug bites. Went out with some friends a couple weekends ago, we wore Deet and I wasn't bothered one bit. I would much prefer something that was not quite as harsh as Deet, but if that's what it takes, that's what I'll have to use.

One thing these studies don't take into account that people's natural body odors or other factors. When I was out this weekend with my dad, he was being left alone, and I was being eaten alive. There are always those folks who will not be bothered by the bugs and then those of us who are just sweet enough to be devoured by the little bloodsuckers!

Lastly, of course, the mosquitoes are attracted to the carbon dioxide we exhale. That's why these mosquito magnet products for your yard emit carbon dioxide--the mosquitoes are attracted to it and sucked in. Too bad we can't develop some kind of breathing device to do something similar--all us cachers could walk around like Darth Vader!

Meanwhile, I'm in itching agony from failed products. Anyone have any suggestions for what to do once you have the bites? I've tried Caladryl and rubbing alcohol, but I think with the sheer volume of bites, I might need something a tad stronger.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. --Galadriel, "The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship Of the Ring"

July 7, 2003

If you are having problems with mosquitoes in your backyard, this is probably the only solution:

http://www.mosquito-zapper.com/mosquito_deleto.htm

38.2k · July 7, 2003

quote:
I sat one night with the can off DW off in my hand spraying it on me every 5 minutes. Still got swarmed. My neighbor who I was talking to had swarms on her, but either never gets bit, or is immune to the itch!

One misconception that people have is that a few squirts of repellent here and there will provide protection.

DEET basically (the full scientific explanation can be found elsewhere) causes the mosquitos to become disoriented and keeps them from landing. You need to spray pretty much every inch of your exposed body for it to be fully effective. If you spray your legs and arms, but miss your feet and hands, your feet and hands are still exposed. DEET is not a perfume you apply to a few spots to keep the bugs away. It has to have full coverage to be completely effective.

And the mosquitos will still circle and annoy you. They just won't land and bite.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

July 7, 2003

We use Greenban Double Strength and are happy with it. You do have to apply more of it more often and I do think though it has more to do with how oily it is than the herbal ingredients. I always apply it real heavy on my legs and when ticks land they do not seem to want to latch on or move around in the oil. For black flies or deer flies I like Ole Time Woodsman dope. They may not make it anymore. I usually found it at small stores in the Adirondacks. This stuff smells really bad and it also drives away people and small dogs The pine tar in it is most likely worse for you than Deet. In the end though I would say Deet products do give the best results, we have just just chosen not to use them.

We Might Be Giants

July 7, 2003

I saw a great headline for an article about mosquitos. Said to avoid them this way: don't breathe or eat. They are atracted to lactic acid in the skin ( from eating) and like mentioned before, exhaled breath.

About the mosquito doleto...took two of them back to home depot. I sat RIGHT NEXT to one...brought them in my garden with me...nope they don't work. Some of these units do NOT attract the Tiger mosquito, which is what eats us alive near Houston.

Tried the garlic yard spray too...nope did not work

6.4k · July 7, 2003

Here's what has been working good for me. I cache in some very tick infested area, and the only time I get a tick on me is when I slack off and don't follow my standard practices.

I start with treating all my clothes with permethrin. Shoes, socks, everything.

Before I get dressed, I spray my entire naked body with a very mild deet (6.5% I think). When I leave the car at the trail, I spray all my exposed skin with stronger deet (20%). I also spray any "entry points", my waist, neck, bottom of my legs. Those points concern me more then my bare arms, because a tick there can (and has) go un-noticed for hours.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

5.3k · July 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Searching_ut:
Okay, after this weekends cache hunting, I've once again flip flopped, and decided mosquitoes really aren't much of a problem (My opinion varies with the area and season ) I really need to find something that works good against those darned horseflies. I did a 15 mile hike (Cache hunt and hide), wearing my DEET bug spray, and litteraly got eaten alive. My legs were a bloody mess from the chunks they were taking out of me. At the moment, I'm not sure I'm concerned about long term risks. Getting chunks removed from me can't be healthy, and I've got to wonder what nice place these guys were prior to paying me a call. I think I'm willing to try about anything if it actually will work.

Read the New England Journal of Med artical. Skin so Soft worked for something like 10 minutes. I would not call that working very well. I am sticking with DEET

July 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Zoraima:

Meanwhile, I'm in itching agony from failed products. Anyone have any suggestions for what to do once you have the bites? I've tried Caladryl and rubbing alcohol, but I think with the sheer volume of bites, I might need something a tad stronger.

Zoraima, They say rubbing chlorine bleach on yourself with a cotton ball stops mosquito bites from itching. I haven't tried it but I'd love to hear your results if you do.

July 8, 2003

Find someone who is a mosquito magnet. Go hiking with him, and stay about 20 feet away.

As for the Coleman Mosquito Deleto -- it works for me. After about two weeks in my yard the sticky trap was literally fuzzy with all the dead mosquitos stuck to it, and the local swarm was noticeably diminished.

You can also try building a bat house.

===========================================================

"The time has come" the Walrus said "to speak of many things; of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and Kings".

July 8, 2003

If you've found something that works for you, that's great.

However, I'm not going to try anything that's "hemp based." Not because I think there's anything wrong with hemp per se, but because I figure they're only using it because, it's like, hemp, dude, which is like, you know, totally natural and groovy. I used to live in Berkeley and I've seen all manner of "hemp" things sold by hippies. None of it looked like something that couldn't be made better out of some other substance. One thing being a female consumer has taught me: ingredients of cosmetics are often based on stupid associations. Like shampoos with "mink oil." What, is that supposed to make my hair all glossy and luxurious like a mink coat? What if mule sweat made my hair luxurious, do you think Revlon would bother to market THAT?

July 8, 2003

Pickled garlic + Beano = No bug problems.

I fished yesterday for six hours in a swamp-surrounded spring creek and I didn't get one bite. I just ate 12 cloves of pickled garlic (I like the Jalapeno), took a little gas medicine (very, highly recommended), and no problem.

You DO need to use a smelly soap and deoderant the next day if you need to work close to people, because the skin can still smell a little (or a lot, if you have a sweaty job, or just sweat a lot naturally). Test it out early on a weekend.

I buy all of mine from Garlic Gourmay. They have several flavors.

cy

July 11, 2003

quote:
About the mosquito doleto...took two of them back to home depot. I sat RIGHT NEXT to one...brought them in my garden with me...nope they don't work. Some of these units do NOT attract the Tiger mosquito, which is what eats us alive near Houston.

Tried the garlic yard spray too...nope did not work

I don't think you should sit next to them since they are made to attract mosquito (it emits heat and carbon dioxide which mosquitoes are attracted too). So being right next to it would be the worse place to be (they are attracted to you for the same reason, so it stands to reason you would get bitten if they are coming for a meal).

Wyatt W

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

July 11, 2003

Wyatt...I had the other doletos.They are called Mosquito Doleto. Little units that were battery operated that emitted smell that was supposed to "confuse" the skeeters. The smell they emitted, actually smelled good! I paid about 25 bucks for each one , plus batteries, plus the fragrance pack. Took them back...

But then again, I need something MOBILE!

July 12, 2003

when i dragged meta to northern MN for a vacation a couple summers ago (he thought the entire state was like the flat boring southern part that i'm from, so i had to show him otherwise), we bought sawyer's controlled-release DEET formula (20%) at REI and were astounded by the stuff. on the trails up around split rock lighthouse we saw mosquitos head toward us and then literally do U-turns to get away from us once they got to within about two feet.

it's a lotion with some sort of time-release protein thingy that keeps the stuff active for much longer than other products. i know it came in second behind deep woods off in that NEJM study (234 minutes vs. 302), but deep woods off just doesn't really do it for me -- must be my body chemistry.

DEET is certainly scary stuff... and if i slathered myself full of it every single weekend i might be a little worried, but i really don't use it too often, so i figure i'll take my chances...

July 12, 2003

My gf swears by bounce dryer sheets...It's sorta weird watching her rub a frikin dryer sheet on her body! Gotta admit...turn's me on in a demented sorta way!! She's weird!!! LOL!!!

July 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Spzzmoose:
My gf swears by bounce dryer sheets...It's sorta weird watching her rub a frikin dryer sheet on her body! Gotta admit...turn's me on in a demented sorta way!! She's weird!!! LOL!!!

I guess I'm weird too for watching!!!

July 12, 2003

I went out today,,, and used a 20% concentration and was only eaten 1/2 alive stopped by a wally world and picked up the 90% DEET Sprayed as I went had to spray my face (Plastic lenses in my glasses) and neck etcccc,,, walk for about 20 minutes and have to RESPRAY,, they started getting thru my defenses. the Bas&@#ds!!! Now Im sitting with a Glass of Knob Creek and essentially bite free. AHhhhhh,,,

"If you're not the lead dog, The view is always the same"

July 12, 2003

Maybe its the Whisky they like???

Steralize yourself from the inside out! Take my word, I AM a medical professional,,,

B.

"If you're not the lead dog, The view is always the same"

July 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Bernie:

Maybe its the Whisky they like???

Steralize yourself from the inside out! Take my word, I AM a medical professional,,,

B.

"If you're not the lead dog, The view is always the same"

LOL!! Gotta try that one!!

Alternate Mosquito Repellents - Backpacker Mag. Article

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