trash

[Guest trash]

I recently located a cache in a Wilderness Area. While most of you may disagree, I feel that caches placed in Wilderness Areas, National Forests and National Parks are not native and should be thrown away. Tupperware, trinkets and other items placed in the wild do not belong there. Trash belongs in dumpsters, not in our forests. I doubt if appropriate permission was given to those who placed these caches. I will be on the lookout for more illegally placed, and littered, caches in the future. Please play your game elsewhere.

 

"Your cache ain't nothin but trash"

 

Thanks

[Guest jeremy]

Troller.

[Guest c.mathis]

OK, we'll all stop caching.

[Guest The Bees]

"You doubt if appropriate permission was given?"

 

Did you ask? or did you just assume?

 

I hope while your being righteous that you also pack out any other garbage you run across.

 

As for native, ROFLMAO, as if asphalt, pre-packaged tours, buses, campers, mobile homes, electric lines, souvenir (sp?) stands, etc etc are really native. So many of our parks national parks, etc are commercialized its ridiculous. And lets not forget George W.'s buddies waiting to get in there with a drilling truck! Native... puh-leese...

 

Next time just sign the logbook

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest The Bees]

"You doubt if appropriate permission was given?"

 

Did you ask? or did you just assume?

 

I hope while your being righteous that you also pack out any other garbage you run across.

 

As for native, ROFLMAO, as if asphalt, pre-packaged tours, buses, campers, mobile homes, electric lines, souvenir (sp?) stands, etc etc are really native. So many of our parks national parks, etc are commercialized its ridiculous. And lets not forget George W.'s buddies waiting to get in there with a drilling truck! Native... puh-leese...

 

Next time just sign the logbook

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest jbwcpa]

Check this idea out.

 

GREAT IDEA

 

What's a troller?

 

[This message has been edited by jbwcpa (edited 08 August 2001).]

[Guest Markwell]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jbwcpa:

What's a troller?

---

 

Troller - n. an individual posting a broad inflammatory statement to a discussion board for the purposes of getting everyone overly excited. The individual usually makes no attempt to research the subject ahead of time, and usually once they post their message, they never return. If they do return it is just to "stir the pot" again. See also "Troll", "Inflammatory Posts"

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 08 August 2001).]

[Guest Hawk-eye]

Jeremy ... actually we really don't have to call him names ... like troller ... I think he's picked an appropriate name for himself and his thoughts

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 08 August 2001).]

[Guest Hawk-eye]

Jeremy ... actually we really don't have to call him names ... like troller ... I think he's picked an appropriate name for himself and his thoughts

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 08 August 2001).]

[Guest bunkerdave]

How can you type with your arms chained around that tree you're hugging?

 

------------------

David Wallentine

dwallent34@yahoo.com

[Guest bunkerdave]

How can you type with your arms chained around that tree you're hugging?

 

------------------

David Wallentine

dwallent34@yahoo.com

[Guest Big-Bird]

He forgot to sign his first name "Trailer"

[Guest Big-Bird]

He forgot to sign his first name "Trailer"

[Guest EyezOfTheWorld]

rial">quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bees:

As for native, ROFLMAO, as if asphalt, pre-packaged tours, buses, campers, mobile homes, electric lines, souvenir (sp?) stands, etc etc are really native. So many of our parks national parks, etc are commercialized its ridiculous. And lets not forget George W.'s buddies waiting to get in there with a drilling truck! Native... puh-leese...

---

 

I doubt the OP was talking about places where the government has built. Yes, Yosemite and other parks are grossly built up by all that you mentioned. Does that make it okay for someone to go in and start leaving things such as a cache?

 

Also, while you're ROTFLYAO about ridiculous commercialization you failed to mention the protected wilderness of places like Yosemite for example... where most of the acreage there is still pure wilderness... 95%? 98? Maybe more than 99? See? Even with alllllll that crap you seem to hate, most of the park is STILL wilderness. I know when I venture out of the areas with man-made structures, it disheartens me to find trash. No, i'm not implying a cache is trash... if it's well hidden & definitely out of sight then fine. One problem i have with the Original Poster is if this person went out with a GPS looking to remove the cache then i think that's lame. If it was hidden & out of sight then no harm... a hiker won't even know it's there.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by c.mathis:

OK, we'll all stop caching.

---

 

Hey, you can do that if you want, the OP merely asked to do it elsewhere, not stop altogether. If i'm not mistaken, the entire country isn't made up of National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness Areas.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by (Captain Benjamin) Hawk-eye (Pierce, 4077th):

Jeremy ... actually we really don't have to call him names ... like troller ... I think he's picked an appropriate name for himself and his thoughts

---

 

Amen. If someone comes in here calling us Gay Nazi Losers or something 20 times worse, there'd be no need to call that name caller names. You'd be demonstrating you're no better. There's NEVER any good reason to call someone a name even if they've called you one first.

 

And in the case of this thread, the Original Poster never called anyone a name. The OP never even put down geocaching!

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

How can you type with your arms chained around that tree you're hugging?

---

 

I'm a treehugger. I love trees, I've helped to save trees, I wanna help to save more trees. Do you love beautiful forests that have become govenment protected land? Land like that got protected because of treehuggers.

 

Imagine that, getting put down because you're against trash and you wanna protect some of this country's natural environment.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Big-Bird:

He forgot to sign his first name "Trailer"

---

 

Sad.

 

Personally, if i go on a non-geocaching hike, into the wilderness, i don't want to see a single piece of trash, nothing man-made that's out of the ordinary. If i do and I'm able to i will remove it. Perhaps the Original Poster found a cache by chance. To him it is trash, or if that's an exageration, it still is something that doesn't belong there in his opinion. Is his opinion wrong?

[Guest mfratto]

Good job, EyezOfTheWorld. I couldn't agree more.

 

Mauri

[Guest Pat in Louisiana]

I'm new at this but I was under the impression that a "Cache" Should be hidden out of sight. Covered with leaves or ground clutter. If so it would not be unsightly and would go unnoticed unless someone were looking for it.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

------------------

Pat in Louisiana

 

"I just want to live happily ever after every now and then"

Jimmy Buffet

[Guest Cisupete]

Re: Mr. Trash's original post.

I have been involved with Geocaching for a couple of months now and have found that the people participating are of the highest character. Everyone seems to care about our natural resources deeply, and noone has any intention of messing in our nest. Because of this activity, my family has visited and experienced the beauty of many parks that we normally would not see. I agree with The Bees, there are many ways to draw attention to our parks so they may be enjoyed, and the Geocaching community is more thoughtful, I believe, than the average bear.

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EyezOfTheWorld:

Sad.

 

Personally, if i go on a non-geocaching hike, into the wilderness, i don't want to see a single piece of trash, nothing man-made that's out of the ordinary. If i do and I'm able to i will remove it. Perhaps the Original Poster found a cache by chance. To him it is trash, or if that's an exageration, it still is something that doesn't belong there in his opinion. Is his opinion wrong?

---

 

You obviously don't recognize a troll when you see it.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by c.mathis:

OK, we'll all stop caching.

---

quote:

---

Hey, you can do that if you want, the OP merely asked to do it elsewhere, not stop altogether. If i'm not mistaken, the entire country isn't made up of National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness Areas.

---

 

You don't have to answer every joke as if it were serious. Lighten up!

[Guest Scaphites]

size="2">...are not native and should be thrown away. Tupperware, trinkets and other items placed in the wild do not belong there.

---

The same could be said for trash, his/her tent, and his/her waffle soled boots.

quote:

---

I will be on the lookout for more illegally placed, and littered, caches in the future.

---

trash is going geocaching!

quote:

---

Hey, you can do that if you want, the OP merely asked to do it elsewhere, not stop altogether. If i'm not mistaken, the entire country isn't made up of National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness Areas.

---

The states of Nevada and Utah are. I don't want to quit.

 

You don't have to hug trees to love them. Geocaching has very low impact on the environment if done following the rules.

 

I took the bait, Hook, Line, and POP-Gear

[Guest Scaphites]

size="2">...are not native and should be thrown away. Tupperware, trinkets and other items placed in the wild do not belong there.

---

The same could be said for trash, his/her tent, and his/her waffle soled boots.

quote:

---

I will be on the lookout for more illegally placed, and littered, caches in the future.

---

trash is going geocaching!

quote:

---

Hey, you can do that if you want, the OP merely asked to do it elsewhere, not stop altogether. If i'm not mistaken, the entire country isn't made up of National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness Areas.

---

The states of Nevada and Utah are. I don't want to quit.

 

You don't have to hug trees to love them. Geocaching has very low impact on the environment if done following the rules.

 

I took the bait, Hook, Line, and POP-Gear

[Guest bunkerdave]

Re: "Tree-Huggers"

 

I actually have a pic of myself "hugging" a redwood in Lady Bird Grove, and I have given money to various environmental organizations. My take on environmentalism is that if you believe in something put your money where your mouth is; make a contribution to buy up some land or support the lobbyists who work full-time to achieve your desired end. The freaks who go out and chain themselves to trees and fences and bulldozers just make the rest of us (who have jobs, families, and contribute to society) look bad.

 

Second, very few people are ever swayed by people who go around trying to spread guilt for various lifestyles/choices. I have two sisters who are vegetarian, but they don't try to sell it to me, and I think they are pretty smart for doing it. Me, I like my steak too much. Then there are those who go out and wear sandwich boards and picket and do all kinds of stuff thinking they are on some kind of "crusade" to change the world, and they are just irritating and obnoxious and make people want to do just the opposite of what they are trying to "sell." These are the "tree huggers" I was referring to, and they are not doing their cause any good. On the contrary, because of the "black eye" they give the rest of the legitimate lobbyists and other supporters, with their extreme tactics, they actually set things back a great deal. You can call yourself a tree hugger if you like, but bear in mind that for many, including environmental supporters, that is not a positive label.

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

Re: "Tree-Huggers"

 

... but bear in mind that for many, including environmental supporters, that is not a positive label.

 

---

 

Well said ... for a meat eater ... so how do you weigh in on the really important issues ... like charcoal vs gas for putting those lines on a great piece of steak?

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 10 August 2001).]

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

Re: "Tree-Huggers"

 

... but bear in mind that for many, including environmental supporters, that is not a positive label.

 

---

 

Well said ... for a meat eater ... so how do you weigh in on the really important issues ... like charcoal vs gas for putting those lines on a great piece of steak?

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 10 August 2001).]

[Guest trash]

Once again, I merely wanted to rid the forest of unwanted trash found while hiking in a natural environment. When I hike in those areas I don't expect to find, laying on a mountain top, a tupperware container that was left by someone else. I consider it trash and so do other people and agencies.

 

I feel the sport of geocaching can still be played without having to leave silly trinkets and non-native materials in areas where they are considered litter.

And yes, I do take a backpack with me every time I hike and remove all kinds of bottles (water bottles especially), cans, wrappers, and other kinds of litter. I have been hiking in the area for over 24 years and have never found litter at the top of this peak until the other day when I found the geocache/tupperware. I removed it. It's as simple as that.

 

I have nothing against geocaching as long as the "cache" is nothing more than a natural feature. Why haul plastic and other materials into an area where they are not allowed or found and then leave them behind?

 

I work closely with the USFS in my job (No, I'm not a federal or state employee) in the recreation industry. Some of my staff picks up trash that was left behind by the public. We spend many hours doing this the throughout the year. I find it frustrating to find others who knowingly leave behind trash, even if they feel it is a cache. I know for a fact that the USFS does not allow tupperware to be left at the top of peaks for others to find. The USFS does allow us to use and enjoy the wilderness as long as we "leave only footprints". What's wrong with that?

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by trash:

I have been hiking in the area for over 24 years and have never found litter at the top of this peak until the other day when I found the geocache/tupperware. I removed it. It's as simple as that.

---

 

Do you also remove the registers that people sign when climbing the peaks throughout the United States? Unless you are a hypocrite, you should you know!

 

quote:

---

The USFS does allow us to use and enjoy the wilderness as long as we "leave only footprints".

---

 

Are these "NATIVE" footprints left by animals BEFORE humans crossed the land bridge from Asia? They sure as hell better not be NON-NATIVE VIBRAM footprints! If they are, you are going to have your work cut out for you erasing them all.

 

We won't even get into the NON-NATIVE trails that the park service has built for you to leave your footprints on.

 

[This message has been edited by c.mathis (edited 10 August 2001).]

[Guest k2dave]

te, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

- Second Amendment

to the U.S. Constitution

[Guest EyezOfTheWorld]

Is "Trash" a troll because he or she doesn't like people geocaching in National Parks, Forests and Wilderness Areas? Is this forum only for people who are FOR all aspects of geocaching?

 

I see a troll more of a person who would just say something like: "Geocachers are idiots" and that's all they'd say, then leave, and usually never be heard from again. Trash hasn't done that. Trash brought up a side of an issue and he or she is getting trashed for having the opinion that in such places we should only leave footprints. Many people agree. We've been given trails to enjoy, to "pack it in, pack it out and leave only footprints." I see nothing wrong with that opinion, and with that philosphy, definitely nothing to warrant a person getting put down.

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EyezOfTheWorld:

Is "Trash" a troll because he or she doesn't like people geocaching in National Parks, Forests and Wilderness Areas?

---

 

No.

 

quote:

---

Is this forum only for people who are FOR all aspects of geocaching?

---

 

No.

 

quote:

---

I see a troll more of a person who would just say something like: "Geocachers are idiots" and that's all they'd say, then leave, and usually never be heard from again.

---

 

You may see it that way, but some of us don't. Just a difference of opinion.

[Guest Hard Slate]

I don't think 'Trash' is a troll,(I'll refer to he/him for practical purposes).I think he stumbled on a cache in a 'special place'and had some concerns,went to the website and posted his opinion.What's wrong with that?I don't necessarily agree with his views, but they are valid concerns. I don't want anyone defiling places that are special to me anymore than the rest of you.To him, our caches ARE trash.

 

As for some of the response he got for his opinion, they are unacceptible.Those kind of negative responses breed negativity back to GEOCACHING.That is definitely something we don't need right now.GEOCACHING is an activity that may NEVER be completely accepted by the public, especialy by the 'tree huggers'.We need to do everything we can to shed a positive light in our favor.

So please go easy on the name calling when someone doesn't agree with your views.

 

[This message has been edited by Hard Slate (edited 11 August 2001).]

[Guest Lou C]

Well, troller or not, after all the smoke clears and the bodies are dragged off from this discussion, what I am gathering from this is HIDE YOUR CACHES WELL. If you need to "give it away" in the description, then do so. But for someone like Mr. trash to find it is a disaster.

 

Now if Mr. troller, uh er, trash decides to read the web pages and seek out a cache (that he feels is trash) in order to remove it, that is a different discussion. If he can't see it, then he will not get upset (except he will KNOW it is there SOMEWHERE and that might bug him/her).

 

I would really be careful when stating "I will be on the lookout for more illegally placed, and littered, caches in the future." If enough caches disappear, there might be those on the lookout for cache cleaners.

[Guest peter]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lou C:

Well, troller or not, after all the smoke clears and the bodies are dragged off from this discussion, what I am gathering from this is HIDE YOUR CACHES WELL.

---

 

Agreed, but I think even more important is to not place them right at an obvious location such as a summit. Everyone goes to summits and if it's hidden well enough not to be found there accidentally, it'll probably be very difficult for any geocacher to find as well. OTOH, hardly anybody goes to some little clump of bushes or rocks a few hundred feet away and the chances of an accidental discovery are much less.

[Guest bunkerdave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

Well said ... for a meat eater ... so how do you weigh in on the really important issues ... like charcoal vs gas for putting those lines on a great piece of steak?

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 10 August 2001).]

---

 

All RIGHT! NOW this thread is getting us somewhere.

 

As a non-treehugger, (photographic evidence notwithstanding) I use nothing other than the finest old-growth redwood heartwood in my grill. Gives it a robust aroma and flavor you just don't get with charcoal or gas.

[Guest bunkerdave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

Well said ... for a meat eater ... so how do you weigh in on the really important issues ... like charcoal vs gas for putting those lines on a great piece of steak?

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 10 August 2001).]

---

 

All RIGHT! NOW this thread is getting us somewhere.

 

As a non-treehugger, (photographic evidence notwithstanding) I use nothing other than the finest old-growth redwood heartwood in my grill. Gives it a robust aroma and flavor you just don't get with charcoal or gas.

[Guest navdog]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

All RIGHT! NOW this thread is getting us somewhere.

 

As a non-treehugger, (photographic evidence notwithstanding) I use nothing other than the finest old-growth redwood heartwood in my grill. Gives it a robust aroma and flavor you just don't get with charcoal or gas.

---

 

Oooh BD, you are bad!

You're really jumping into the fire ...errr grill with that one!

[Guest navdog]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

All RIGHT! NOW this thread is getting us somewhere.

 

As a non-treehugger, (photographic evidence notwithstanding) I use nothing other than the finest old-growth redwood heartwood in my grill. Gives it a robust aroma and flavor you just don't get with charcoal or gas.

---

 

Oooh BD, you are bad!

You're really jumping into the fire ...errr grill with that one!

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

... nothing other than the finest old-growth redwood heartwood in my grill. Gives it a robust aroma and flavor you just don't get with charcoal or gas.

---

 

True ... very true ... but I find that diced spotted owl ... adds that hint of perfection ... when used as a garnish on a good Med.Rare ... Redwood enhanced ... piece of beef ... or dolphin for that matter

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bunkerdave:

... nothing other than the finest old-growth redwood heartwood in my grill. Gives it a robust aroma and flavor you just don't get with charcoal or gas.

---

 

True ... very true ... but I find that diced spotted owl ... adds that hint of perfection ... when used as a garnish on a good Med.Rare ... Redwood enhanced ... piece of beef ... or dolphin for that matter

[Guest bunkerdave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

I find that diced spotted owl ... adds that hint of perfection ... when used as a garnish on a good Med.Rare ... Redwood enhanced ... piece of beef ... or dolphin for that matter

---

 

All the spotted owl I've had tasted too much like California Condor.

[Guest c_oflynn]

You should really try big-foot sirloin, or prehapes some lochness n'chips. Excellent

[Guest c_oflynn]

You should really try big-foot sirloin, or prehapes some lochness n'chips. Excellent

[Guest c.mathis]

When clubbing baby harp seals, do you prefer a club made from old-growth redwood or bristlecone pine?

[Guest Scaphites]

Young (<1000 yrs)Bristlecone is alot more dense, but whale-bone is good too.

[Guest Havasu Desert Rat]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest bunkerdave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by c.mathis:

When clubbing baby harp seals, do you prefer a club made from old-growth redwood or bristlecone pine?

---

 

I never club - too much work and too messy. I only use nets for seals. Then I can sit back and harpoon at will.

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Havasu Desert Rat:

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

 

DO WHAT?......

[Guest jeremy]

ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off.

 

J

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeremy:

ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off.

---

 

OH ... Me too then!

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeremy:

ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off.

---

 

OH ... Me too then!

[Guest WaylandersMA]

Anyone ever notice that a true-blue, tree spiking, tree hugging, card carrying PETA member never has a sense of humor and would not know sarcasm if it bit them in their bony vegetarian *** and that some of the past quotes could be "taken out of context"?

Aaah, pass the side of spotted salamander pate.

[Guest bb]

I'm the guy who left the cache on the peak at Emigrant Lake. It was my 1st cache deposit and my 5th trip to the top of this peak. I didn't mean to stir up such a controversy, just wanted to share a beautiful place with some other folks via a cool hobby. I agree with one of the other posters - the people I've met that are geocachers are good people that respect the environment. Right near where I left the cache is a plaque that is bolted to a rock. It was placed there in 1964 by a group of hikers from Sacramento (mostly boy scouts) to commemorate the pioneers. Did he remove that too? Also in the area is a sign placed by ECV marking the highest place ever reached by a connestoga wagon. All trash - should be removed, and too bad for those of us that liked them.