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Geocaching smokers?!


Verboten

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quote:
Ah, but unlike cigarettes, cigars smell good.

 

Ick! I have to disagree. Just the slightest sent of a cigar makes me feel nauseated! I can smell one from a long way off. I must be particularly sensitive to them. I don't care for pipe smoke much either, but it isn't as bothersome to me as cigar or cigarette smoke.

 

As for the other issues raised here. I would prefer not to have to walk by the smokers on my way into work and I don't like seeing butts as litter. At the same time, I can deal with it. I just hold my breath as I walk by and I guess picking up butts as litter isn't any worse than picking up all the other sorts of litter out there. I guess I don't have a real strong opinion on the issue.

 

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Jeremy and GrizzlyJohn,

I'm glad you've ironed out your misunderstanding, but now I have to ask: Why is the use of generalizations "bad" in the context of this topic? Verboten's question...

quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

...But why do people hate us smokers so much?...


...concerns an identifiable group of people, not a specific individual. He continued with several generalities of his own.
quote:
Ok, I'll give you that most smokers are inconsiderate. They'll flick a used butt anywhere they feel like. But most people are inconsiderate. Most people trash in and stroll out...Likewise, us geocaching smokers...tend to be more responsible than our non-geocaching counterparts...
Since the question was asked in a general context concerning a group of people, I believe it was appropriate to respond by citing behaviors typically common of that group that others sometimes find offensive and may be the basis of hatred.

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

Since the question was asked in a _general_ context concerning a _group_ of people, I believe it was appropriate to respond by citing behaviors typically common of that _group_ that others sometimes find offensive and may be the basis of hatred.


Verboten's (I don't know if it is a he or a she) statements belong to them. The general question only addressed people that hate smokers. I don't think that every non-smoker hates smokers. I don't think that Verboten's generalizations are fair either. I never mentioned any names or sides. My only point was to say that if stereotyping is wrong for one group it is wrong for all groups. It does not matter if I agree with the side taken or not.

 

I am going to hate myself for doing this and expect the flames, but here it goes. "Typically common"? Who is judging typically common? Please take what I am about to say in the spirit it is meant. Is it OK for me to hate Arabs because I find their "typically common" practice of terrorism against the US offensive? I can come up with other examples but I am really not trying to offend anybody here, I hope you can see what I am trying to say. Again this is just an example.

 

You can't take the actions of a specific individual(s) that belong to a particular group and project them to the group as a whole. People can always be divided into some other grouping. Your feeling, if I am understanding this correctly, is that people who smoke have behaviors that some find offensive and may be the basis of hatred. So then because there are geocachers that smoke, wouldn't it be accurate to say that geocachers have behaviors that some find offensive and may be the basis of hatred? Are you saying that it is OK to hate an entire group because of some members of that group? I smoke, do you hate me? My smoke has never bothered you. You have never had to pick up butts I have left around. Maybe someday those things will happen but until then you may not like what I do but don't group me in with others and judge what I do based on them. Again look at the example above change it to whatever group of people and stereotype you want and see if it is OK in your mind. If it is then we are going to have to agree to disagree.

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Wow...where do I begin? I am a non-smoker who has smoked before, but never became addicted - thank God. I suddenly realized what a disgusting habit it was, for several reasons which have already been listed above, not to mention the costs involved. I don't understand how people can even afford to smoke anymore!

 

I don't hate smokers. I don't hate anybody. But I do get very offended by people's rude behavior. Whether it be smoking, littering, cutting me off on the highway - it is just plain inconsiderate. Sure, there are other causes of pollution, but there is not too much I can do to avoid any of it, whether it be a car, which most of us need to get to work (and not many non-polluting vehicles are available in my area), or someone smoking a cigarette. If I need to get into the Mall, or class (back in my college days), or any other building, I have no choice but to walk through a cloud of smoke. Do I act rudely to the smokers? No. Two wrongs do not make a right. People have the right to smoke. But I also have the right to breathe. And it just doesn't seem fair that my last breath outside, and my first breath coming back out chokes and nauseates me.

 

I also find it rude and offensive to see the grounds of my campus, work place, or public areas riddled with cigarette butts. Especially when there are huge ashtrays present. From what I've seen, most smokers are just too lazy to use them, they just carelessly flick the butts in the general direction of the ashtrays and give no notice to whether they land in them or not. I have seen the ground become littered with butts near ashtrays minutes after being swept. No joke, I have seen this for four years outside my dorm at college.

 

I agree that everyone has the right to smoke, but I do not believe anyone should flaunt their rights in others' faces. Walking/hiking (whether it be to class, work or geocaching) is an exercise that causes everyone to breathe harder. It is a slap in the face to suck in someone else's smoke when you are breathing hard. As it is to breathe it in any time, whether you are eating, sleeping, or just hanging out with your friends.

 

It is often difficult to convince someone who has their mind made up, especially when you are trying to convince them that they should change their own behaviors. Because everyone can rationalize everything they do. It is especially difficult with smokers, because it is hard to come up with a different habit that can offend a smoker in much the same way. Obviously, breathing in smoke and seeing the litter of cigarettes would not offend as many smokers since they are the ones who do it (I KNOW, NOT ALL OF THEM - BUT OBVIOUSLY MANY)

 

I just wish that more people would be more considerate of others - remember that some people do not enjoy the smell of smoke, or can have conditions that will be worsened by it. There are many things that people do that have been deemed by society to be unappropriate to do in public. Maybe smoking will be next if more people do not start considering the consequences of their actions.

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OK, so I smoke. I keep the wrappers with me and a film cannister in my pocket. I fish, I keep the wrappers with me. I go to McDonalds some times, that's what the backseat footwells are for. Smoking was outlawed by my town counsel AFTER restaraunts were required to spend thousands of $$$ on 'smoke eaters' (not popular vote, I should have gone into the deck building biz then). No smoking in bars??? Think about it for a moment, people go to bars/clubs to drink poison in mind-numbing quantities and try to have sex with strangers where the noise level can dammage your hearing... But smoking is dangerous...

 

I'm waiting for a 'no-screaming-brats' section in planes, restaraunts and other public places. On a long flight I tear off the end of a cigarrette and put it in my mouth and use a barf bag for spit. Grosses people out, but I used to have a quiet area at the back of the plane that didn't bother other people.

 

Quick aside as to societal changes over the last 30 years. The TV programs "Laugh-In', 'Smothers Brothers' and 'Dean Martin Roasts' were considered risque because of their humor, which is timid by current standards. They wouldn't get aired today because they smoked and drank. Remember when Johnny Carson smoked? or Truth or Consequences gave away cartons of Winstons? A box of cigars or a bottle was an accepted (expected) business gift for XMAS? People dressed for travel or social occaisions? Said please & thank you?

 

Be polite, and better mannered, put ash cans away from front doors (not in Siberia)and 'quitcherbichin'.

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It smells horrible is my biggest complaint. It's like thousands of people walking around with really bad B.O. Even if you get 20 feet away you can smell it. You can smell it when walking 100 feet behind someone and the wind shifts. No matter how far you are from the smoking section, you can smell it.

 

Plus I think it's ridiculous that noone complains that the people at work who smoke go on a smoke break 90 times a day but if I come back from lunch 15 minutes late I get the evil eye.

 

And don't get me started about the financial aspect of it. I cannot stand it when smokers complain about how much money they don't have. Both of my parents were smokers. For a project once, I estimated how much they probably spent on smoking over the years. If they had just put the money in a jar... they could have retired many years ago. If they had invested it... who knows.

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

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quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

It's a bit of a red herring to bring out the race or sex card. It diminishes those issues.


I did not think that we disagreed on the issue of generalizing and stereotyping, your first post that came in as I was typing mine called it a "silly trap", I agree. I don't mean to diminish those issues but sometimes one has to go to the extreme to make the point. Showing how stereotyping is wrong with an example that everybody understands and many would probably agree is wrong I think makes the point eaiser to see. Perhaps that was not the case here. I would compare having long hair to smoking only in regard to say that it is something that is obvious to set a person apart from someone else. I don't think it is a red herring. If it is wrong to stereotype or generalize for one group it would imply that it is wrong to do it for any group no matter how the group is defined. And maybe the more "silly" the way the group is divided the more silly the use of a stereotype becomes. Of course it seems that positive stereotypes are always OK.

 

How can you stereotype smokers with any other group? There is no other 'behavior' similar enough to smoking to provide a proper analogy.

 

The closest is probably alcohol, but even that's a stretch:

Cigarette smoke causes cancer, harming both the smoker and those nearby.

Alcohol only harms the drinker, not the other guy at the bar. (Yes, some (repeat: SOME) people drive drunk and harm others, but it would be a stretch to say all or most drinkers do so).

Smokers are a class unto themselves. The vast majority litter (cigarette butts ARE litter). They have enjoyed the freedom to smoke for long enough that they are finally starting to feel the backlash. More and more non-smokers (and former smokers) are pushing for stricter laws. The tobacco industry no longer has a promising future as the anti-smoking trend grows. It's just a matter of time before it is illegal to smoke in or near any building in this country. It may take longer for the rest of the world, but it will eventually happen elsewhere.

 

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Most of the smokers I know are fairly considerate. The ones I have a problem with are the "Smokers' Rights" activists. Their credo seems to be:

 

"I reserve the right to expel poisonous, foul-smelling gases into the very air you breathe, and don't see why you should have the least objection."

 

There is a restaurant here in Atlanta that has a sign that says, 'Smoking Encouraged'.

 

Want to kill yourself slowly by smoking? I say, more power to you ... it could have a positive effect on the gene pool, really. If you're going to do it, though, keep it away from me, or I reserve the right to fart on you. icon_smile.gif

 

--

Scott Johnson (ScottJ)

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quote:
Originally posted by DeerChaser & Poni:

Quit two weeks ago, cold turkey. It's very f'in hell icon_mad.gif. Soon, smokers will be banned altoghter. They're going to move all smokers to some isolated land.

 

Rino 110

MeriGreen 128


 

Will this land have caches??

 

SeventhSon

 

== If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you. ==

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While cigarette smoke isn't the best smell in the world, I can tolerate it. If it makes some people ill, perhaps its some pre-existing condition, like an allergy, that makes it intolerable. Sometimes I even enjoy a whiff of the smoke.

 

What I think is worse is bad B.O., nothing worse than that. Phew! In my unscientific research, apparently the worst cases are from those who live on a fast food diet. It certainly can't be healthier than smoking. And while a smoker cannot usually be distiguished from a non-smoker by looks alone, the fast food eater can, and its not a healthy look. I find more fast food wrappers on the trail than cigarette butts!

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quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

..."Typically common"? Who is judging typically common?...


Typically common as in "widely observed" or "generally acknowledged to be true"
quote:
...You can't take the actions of a specific individual(s) that belong to a particular group and project them to the group as a whole...
Sure you can, if the actions are typically true of the group. For example, if someone asks, "Why do people hate geocachers?", I could accurately respond, "Geocachers go looking for ammo cans in the woods. Perhaps that is why people hate them." I haven't justified the hatred, I've merely given a possible explanation. And while my answer is not universally true, it is certainly generally true. Generally speaking, geocachers do go looking for ammo cans in the woods. I suppose a geocacher could flame me and say, "I don't look for ammo cans; I only hunt Tupperware!", but that would not invalidate the general truthfulness of my statement.

 

Worldtraveler

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on April 17, 2003 at 02:50 PM.]

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I smoke and I consider myself a courteous smoker. If I am indoors with non-smokers I will not light up around them and I pack out my butts on cache hunts. However....

 

If I am outside I light up wherever I want to. If I get an attitude from a non-smoker I just blow my smoke into the wind regardless if it is blowing in your face or not. You dont like it thats to dadgum bad. If you are polite about it, I will do everything in my power to make sure your comfort has not been compromised, but give me attitude and Ill make sure you are un-comfortable. Sorry, but non-smokers nowadays are a bit too dadgum picky. Litterbugs on the other hand, I have always hated icon_wink.gif

 

Kar

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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quote:
Originally posted by oregone:

I mean, seriously. What are you going to do while waiting for the bus? Or when you first wake up in the morning? Or after a meal or during a beer?


 

Or more importantly, after or with that first beer of the morning! icon_eek.gif

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I smoked for something like 38 years, and then quit because my younger son once asked (after hearing about passive smoking): 'Dad, why are you poisoning me?' I stopped smoking that instant - gave away my lighters and cigarettes, and have never had a moment of problem, or remorse, about that move.

 

I know you've heard it a thousand times. But it is easy as that! The nicotine makes only empty threats, no hell will open for you when you quit. The only thing you'll notice is perhaps that you are missing the familiar gestures, the feeling of the box, the pauses between two things being done... no big deal.

 

The net result, people will like you better because you do not stink. Period. You won't carry that stale, humid morning smell of an ashtray. You won't have yellow fingers that make people hesitate before shaking your hand. You will have a choice of other breaths. You will stop looking frighteningly for an exit or a place near the window every ten minutes. You will be delighted when you discover how you miraculously regained your sense of smell and taste. It goes on like that for some time, that tirade.

 

And of course, there'll be some extra money in your pocket that didn't turned into blue haze and vanish. Maybe half a Garmin monthly? And you'll recall that by far the greatest part of it went into taxes, not to the tobacco producers - who actually, live quite comfortably... off your health.

 

I have been trough it all, so I know. For me, it is not just a theory. Dropping that filthy and useless habit doesn't hurt, it won't make you go crazy, it won't reduce you to a nervous wreck. It actually does feel good already after a first week of non-smoking, and it's been one of the best decisions in my whole life.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

 

How can you stereotype smokers with any other group? There is no other 'behavior' similar enough to smoking to provide a proper analogy.

blah .. blah ... blah <snip>


One more time for the people that can not keep up or are sitting in the back.

 

I was not talking about the "behavior" of smokers. I was talking about the "behavior" of those that feel it is OK to stereotype and generalize about one group and think it is OK because they don't like what that group does. And how some people still obviously don't get it that stereotyping is stereotyping. And if it is wrong to do it against one group then it must also be wrong to it against any group.

 

You are still doing it. How do you know the "vast majority" of smokers litter? Have you met every smoker? Have you observed this behavior of the vast majority of all the smokers in the world and kept any sort of records of your findings? When did I meet you?

 

Even in light of calling that phrasing silly you still continue to do it. You have to say "vast majority" when you have no way of proving that and base it only on your observations of a very small sub-group of the group as a whole. For the last time: That is stereotyping and if I did the same thing and used a particular race and a particular 'behavior' I think someone would call me on it and they would be right to do so. Somehow through all of my cigarette smoke I can see that. If you can't then you just prove the point I was trying to make in my post.

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

Typically common as in "widely observed" or "generally acknowledged to be true"


Did not answer the question but I think we can see that you mean to say that you are doing the judging. So it really is based on nothing other than a observation you make to suit the outcome you want not on any hard and solid fact or evidence. Thanks for clearing that up for me. (cough)
quote:
Sure you can, if the actions are typically true of the group.
I am sorry you got me there. You are right you can do that. I does not make any sense and again IT IS STEREOTYPING. But it has become obvious that you are OK with that and don't have any problem with allowing your preconceived notions and prejudices become your facts and truths.

 

Your original points way back when used words like "most" and stated conjucture as fact. Now you are using "universally" and "generally". And that was the point I was making. I will accept "generally" but I won't let you waltz by using words like "most" when they are based on nothing.

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GrizzlyJohn:

quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

...Your original points way back when used words like "most" and stated conjucture as fact...


Did you look closely? I actually used the word "most" only twice in reference to smokers - once as a direct quote and again restating the quote. I was using Verboten's own words to answer his question. I wasn't trying to prove their validity since it was already his perception. I can't help it if you don't share that perception, but I was addressing my response to him.
quote:
...So it really is based on nothing other than a observation you make to suit the outcome you want not on any hard and solid fact or evidence...it has become obvious that you are OK with that and don't have any problem with allowing your preconceived notions and prejudices become your facts and truths.
I made a single statement based solely on multiple observations and clearly stated it as such...
quote:
...they also seem to litter other material more than nonsmokers, from my observations...
I further explained my observations in a subsequent post. What part of my response causes you to think it was to "suit the outcome" I wanted or that I had "preconceived notions and prejudices"? Is your accusation based on evidence or conjecture?

 

I made a statement about smokers congregating near exits and referenced the fact that many places have begun posting signs prohibiting it. You didn't deny it; in fact you confirmed it by saying, "I am too out of breath to walk any further."

 

I said smokers tend to be less productive on the job (take frequent smoke breaks), take more sick time, and take more from the health care system than they contribute. When challenged to produce documentation, I replied it was easily obtainable just by doing a google search. For example, if you had bothered to look up "smokers" and "productivity", you would quickly find articles from BBC News, Scientific American, and others stating "Smokers take more time off than their colleagues and do less work when they are there, according to researchers." They then go on to show the statistics.

 

I said that secondhand smoke is a documented health problem within the U.S., to which you replied, "Most (oops, there's that word you don't like) of those studies have been shown to be flawed..." Why is it inappropriate for me to say secondhand smoke is a documented health problem (a true statement) without citing a specific study, but appropriate for you to claim most of them are flawed without citing specifics. You've already admitted the existence of the studies by claiming most are flawed.

 

And why is it okay for you to use the word "most" without supporting documentation, but it's not okay for me to do so?

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

If I get an attitude from a non-smoker I just blow my smoke into the wind regardless if it is blowing in your face or not.


 

Sounds fair.

 

I drink water. If someone blows smoke into the wind regardless of whether it was blowing in my face or not, I have the right to toss my bottle (or bucket) of water in the air, regardless of whether it soaks your smoke or not.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

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quote:
Originally posted by Cape Cod Cacher:

Political Correctness hits geocaching.com

 

Be polite and considerate of others and when you are dying of the cold, I have matches and a lighter to make a fire.

 

I hope you have good aim, I have a narrow @ss to kiss, and your brats will taste good on a flame.


 

I thought you 'Quit'?

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures

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quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

I guess this thread has surpassed my intentions. In the worst way possible.

 

Hate the player, not the game!

 

That is all,

 

-Vb


 

Was it my post in the 'grocery cart' thread that started this? If so, I'm sorry and confused. I thought the grocery thread was a joke, and I just wanted to add to the humor. This is not the first time my sense of humor has been mistaken. icon_confused.gif

 

This thread has been really fascinating, though. It's just about as far off-topic as can be imagined, yet everybody has to chime in. The truth is, smoking is widely considered to be anti-social behavior and anti-social people are looked down on. Do I hate smokers? No, I don't. They are truly addicted and have not kicked yet. Many never will (or be able to). Yes, they smell things up. And yes, many could be more considerate, but us non-smokers should cut them as much slack as we can, they're addicted! Show some compassion, OK?

 

I really have to try to stay away from these forums from now on (joke). icon_wink.gif

 

Keep on caching,

 

Bluespreacher

 

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

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quote:
Originally posted by Bluespreacher:

<snip>...but us non-smokers should cut them as much slack as we can, they're addicted! Show some compassion, OK?


Drug addicts are addicted too, should we cut them some slack? (Oh yeah, nicotine is a drug, too)

No one physically forced them to put a cigarette (or other drug) in their mouth (nose, or bloodstream) - it was their own choice.

Tobacco companies may have made it look appealing to smoke, but that's part of advertising. Just because you see an ad for (any product), it doesn't mean you are forced to use it - you make a choice to use it or not.

 

bandbass.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by JoeCthulhu:

I've attended several meeting of the Maryland Geocaching Society, and am now convinced that all geocachers in Maryland smoke.

 

When they all go hunting caches, I'm sure it looks like a forest fire.

 

I guess if I had to live in Maryland, I'd pick up some vice too. Drink maybe. 7;^)>


Boy, you sure are gullible icon_rolleyes.gif And since your a member of the Maryland Geocaching Society, and do much of your caching there, you must be a smoker too. icon_rolleyes.gif

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JoeCthulhu...what gives buddy? I gotta agree with Poindexter on this one even though I consider you a friend. I felt your blatent condemnation of all Maryland geocachers to be uncalled for. As you know, I am from Maryland, a geocacher, and have never smoked in my life. I think you owe more than a few people an apology(This includes your friends that smoke.). Those friend that I have that smoke are friends none the less and I would never belittle a friend in the fashion you have in this forum. I for one am glad to have every friend I've got....including you. icon_confused.gif

 

Lakemaster

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quote:
Originally posted by JoeCthulhu:

I've attended several meeting of the Maryland Geocaching Society, and am now convinced that all geocachers in Maryland smoke.

 

When they all go hunting caches, I'm sure it looks like a forest fire.

 

I guess if I had to live in Maryland, I'd pick up some vice too. Drink maybe. 7;^)>


 

My sincerest apologies to any member of the Maryland Geocaching Society who was offended by this post.

 

I have to try and remember that my sense of humor in offen misconstrued in person, and then to translate it in writing is doubly difficult.

 

Anyone can find something bad to say about every place on Earth, especially New Jersey (Oops there I go again).

 

An approriate response to my post should have been someone making fun of Virginia, and it still is. Please someone take a pot-shot at where I live, so I can feel better about myself.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.

 

-Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)

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By JoeCthulhu "Please someone take a pot-shot at where I live, so I can feel better about myself."

 

To be a Virginian;

either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's Mother's side is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a Benediction from Above.

By Anonymous

 

Is there a question here, left unsaid? icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

quote:
Originally posted by Bluespreacher:

<snip>...but us non-smokers should cut them as much slack as we can, they're addicted! Show some compassion, OK?


Drug addicts are addicted too, should we cut them some slack? (Oh yeah, nicotine is a drug, too)

No one physically forced them to put a cigarette (or other drug) in their mouth (nose, or bloodstream) - it was their own choice.

Tobacco companies may have made it look appealing to smoke, but that's part of advertising. Just because you see an ad for (any product), it doesn't mean you are forced to use it - you make a choice to use it or not.

 

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ihazeltine/bandbass.gif


 

Of course starting to smoke is a personal choice. The thing is, most smokers made their chioce in their teens and now wish they could quit. By the time they are in their 30's most smokers would love to quit (and many do).

 

As far as cutting addicts some slack, sure, why not? It's a pitiful thing to be addicted to a harmful substance. Yes, there is a great weight of personal responsibility too, but I think there's always some room for compassion for the afflicted among us. icon_smile.gif

 

Just my .02,

 

Bluespreacher

 

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

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quote:
Originally posted by Bluespreacher:

Of course starting to smoke is a personal choice. The thing is, most smokers made their chioce in their teens and now wish they could quit. By the time they are in their 30's most smokers would love to quit (and many do).

 

As far as cutting addicts some slack, sure, why not? It's a pitiful thing to be addicted to a harmful substance. Yes, there is a great weight of personal responsibility too, but I think there's always some room for compassion for the afflicted among us. icon_smile.gif


 

Personally, I do feel sorry for people who are trying to quit. My partner tried (and sucessfully gave up) a few years ago - she still craves them every now and then, but can't stand the smell.

 

Those who are courteous enough to smoke away from non-smokers have my deepest respect.

 

But... and this is a big but - I do not feel sorry for those smokers who drop cigarette ends on the floor. I do not feel sorry for those who sit next to me at the otherwise empty train station and light up without asking if I mind. I do not feel sorry for those who smoke in the non-smoking section, nor for those who smoke in a busy office, or public building where there are plenty of non-smokers who will be affected.

 

The smokers aren't the problem, it the individuals who do not realise that their actions affect others.

 

And finally, Team Shibby - I have to ask - You say that you will react negatively to any non-smoker who gives you attitude - in what way is "If I am outside I light up wherever I want to." not 'attitude'? - As a non-smoker, if you decided to light up right next to me, even outside, you'd better be sure I'll be annoyed.

 

Your statement sounds a little hypocritical to me.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

soapbox.gif

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Why does everyone gripe about smokers? I don't ever hear anyone telling someone to leave, or forbidding them to enter an establishment because of thier toe curling foul body odor or exactly the opposite when someone wears so much perfume or cologne that it singes your nose hairs.. Of course not. That would be a violation of civil rights.. I'm sure a multi million dollar lawsuit would soon follow.. (and probably win!)

 

Someone can pollute themselves with alcohol on a regular basis yet still get decent insurance rates, yet a Smoker has to jump through hoops. When chances are that Alcohol will rot your gut and kill you before cigarettes will..

 

Just remember.. When you step on someone else's freedom you have no right to complain when someone else steps on yours!

 

Another thing to remember.. Nobody has ever smoked a few cigarettes then got in thier car and killed someone as a result, or lost thier rational thought and killed someone over a stupid argument.. Which of the two vices has a darker side?

 

Back off slamming smokers.. Most of us are courteous enough to leave or put out our cigarette if asked politely, yet will return fire for rudeness.. You expect courtesy, then show some yourself!

 

Let's not forget it was Tobacco that put this country on the map! For hundreds of years the only indusrtial resource this country had to offer the world was it's tobacco farms.. Who's the most popular for tobacco farms? Hmm.. Maybe that's Virginia home to the largest Tobacco Co. in the world!

 

Yes.. I smoke by my own free choice.

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

MicroLogo.jpg

 

www.mdgps.net

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quote:
Originally posted by SilverRubicon:

quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

Ugh! I hate when I don't have a tin or empty film container. Stashing butts in the pocket sucks, but I do it when I have to.

 

-Vb


 

See that is the difference between you and the majority, you would when you have to and everyone else would instead just throw them on the ground. Thank you, I now know of two responsible smokers. I hope you also consider those around you before lighting up and impossing your smoke onto them as well. If so then I can say I also know of two considerate smokers as well.

 

SilverRubicon


 

What about cigars and pipes do they count?

Isn't tabacco biodegradable?

What about chew?

And what about wacky tabacky? icon_eek.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Davros:

Why does everyone gripe about smokers? I don't ever hear anyone telling someone to leave, or forbidding them to enter an establishment because of thier toe curling foul body odor or exactly the opposite when someone wears so much perfume or cologne that it singes your nose hairs..


 

No - and you wouldn't be barred from an establishment for smelling of stale cigarette smoke either. It's often not just the smell, but the harm that it does to other people.

 

You might smoke by your own free choice, but the people around you are also smoking - not by their choice, but by yours.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

soapbox.gif

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As a smoker for 18 years and non smoker for the last year and a few months I defend the smokers. If you smoke repsonibly outdoors and extinguish the flame properly. Jeez smokers are running out of places to smoke. I have a few friends that still smoke and I don't think one way or the other. I quit because it was my choice and I feel that it is anyones right as long as they do not harm others and that is the fine line that causes the political argument.

 

By the way nobody better pick on Kentucky or I will have to whip out my West Virginia or Tennessee jokes. icon_wink.gif

 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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quote:
Originally posted by Davros:

Of course not. That would be a violation of civil rights..


 

I don't think stench is covered under any civil rights act I know of.

 

quote:

Someone can pollute themselves with alcohol on a regular basis yet still get decent insurance rates, yet a Smoker has to jump through hoops.


 

Untrue. Last time I had a physical one of the primary questions was how much alcohol I consumed. They take all lifestyle decisions into consideration when they offer insurance since it affects their bottom line. It would be silly for them not to.

 

quote:

Just remember.. When you step on someone else's freedom you have no right to complain when someone else steps on yours!


 

I don't have the freedom to pop someone in the mouth. There is such a thing as freedom with consequences.

 

quote:
Nobody has ever smoked a few cigarettes then got in thier car and killed someone as a result, or lost thier rational thought and killed someone over a stupid argument.. Which of the two vices has a darker side?

 

Don't justify bad behavior with other bad behavior. Comparing drunk driving with forcing your bad habit on others is apples and oranges.

 

quote:

Back off slamming smokers.. Most of us are courteous enough to leave or put out our cigarette if asked politely, yet will return fire for rudeness..


 

Great. The best smoker is the one you don't smell.

 

quote:
Let's not forget it was Tobacco that put this country on the map! For hundreds of years the only indusrtial resource this country had to offer the world was it's tobacco farms..

 

And this justifies... what? Are smokers now patriots? icon_rolleyes.gif

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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If you have ever watched a smoker flick a butt out the window of his car, while behind him on your motorcycle and watch it fly directly into your left eye, you will appreciate why I hate smokers. In his defense though, he did end up hurt lots worse than my eye. Yes. I am serious

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quote:
Originally posted by Davros:

Why does everyone gripe about smokers? I don't ever hear anyone telling someone to leave, or forbidding them to enter an establishment because of their toe curling foul body odor or exactly the opposite when someone wears so much perfume or cologne that it singes your nose hairs..


 

I try to be nice to courtious smokers because I figure they're not going to live very long<grin>.. It also must suck to be so addicted to something that you get the shakes when you stop. If you have B.O., smell bad, and come close to me so I can smell your bad smell, it's not going to give me cancer, and I'm not going to smell like you afterwards. If you are drunk and breathe on me, I'm not going to get drunker than you are. If you smoke at me though, the smell stays with me afterwards until I wash or burn my clothes and hair. I suck that putrid crap into my lungs so I can wake up the next morning and cough and hack like I know you probably do. That's why people complain.

 

Most smokers are a socitable bunch and some of them are bloody interesting people, and I put up with the fumes from time to time, but it sucks.

 

My stupid sister in law allows her 12 year old kid to smoke because 'mommy' does and she doesn't want to be a hypocrite. It's sad...

 

But what irks me the most is when I see a pregnant lady smoking. Great priorities there.

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Bender-"If you have ever watched a smoker flick a butt out the window of his car, while behind him on your motorcycle and watch it fly directly into your left eye, you will appreciate why I hate smokers. In his defense though, he did end up hurt lots worse than my eye. Yes. I am serious"

 

Good for you, brother.

 

I loved it when I had a motorcycle and some idiot in front of me did that. Here I am with 5 gallons of gasoline and an open engine between my legs and some j.o. throws an open flame at me...well, if it all blows up, at least I'll get a little tickle out of it first...

 

Smokers, if you want to smoke, go right ahead, just please don't make me smoke it with you. And stop throwing it out the car window when you are done. I am in Arizona. Very dry. You can burn down the whole state.

 

That's all.

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Look, back in the day smokers were able to smoke almost anywhere, but nowadays smokers must go outside. Soooo....to make a long story short, I light up outside where I want to. If I am outside in the open air, you bet your a** Im not gonna ask your permission to smoke. Now, if you asked me politely or your children were present, I would gladly comply and not smoke if it bothered you or I would move elsewhere. But if your just turn around and make snide remarks Ill make sure you are just as un-comfortable as you make me. That simple icon_smile.gif

 

Kar

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

Look, back in the day smokers were able to smoke almost anywhere, but nowadays smokers must go outside. Soooo....to make a long story short, I light up outside where I want to. If I am outside in the open air, you bet your a** Im not gonna ask your permission to smoke. Now, if you asked me politely or your children were present, I would gladly comply and not smoke if it bothered you or I would move elsewhere. But if your just turn around and make snide remarks Ill make sure you are just as un-comfortable as you make me. That simple icon_smile.gif


 

How much effort does it take to ask the person next to you (especially if you're at a station or waiting in a queue - walking down the street is another matter entirely (who would you ask? *Everyone*?)) if they mind if you light up?

 

Surely it's just a common courtesy?

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

soapbox.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

Look, back in the day smokers were able to smoke almost anywhere, but nowadays smokers must go outside. Soooo....to make a long story short, I light up outside where I want to.


 

Well, at least you ask.. That's nice of you and better than I've seen where I am. I had this idea for a fishbowl device that fits on a smoker's head. It keeps the smoke in the smoker's face instead of mine and presumably enhances the smoking experience by keeping it in a hazy orbit around your head.

 

I used to play music in bars. I had two identical Roland JC-120 amps bought within a year of each other. One amp I left in the rehearsal hall and the other one went into venues. The one that hit the bars a few times a month is now yellow-green, the other one is still a pristine steel blue right from the showroom.

 

cough cough..

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Originally posted by Davros:

Another thing to remember.. Nobody has ever smoked a few cigarettes then got in thier car and killed someone as a result.....

______________________________________________

 

There have been numerous--possibly hundreds or thousands--of documented cases where drivers admitedly were distracted by dropping a cigarette, lighting one, or many such other distractions causing both serious and/or fatal vehicle collisions. It doesn't take much thought to figure out that inattention to the demands of safe driving will yield perilous results

 

David Berne

 

[This message was edited by tahoeberne on April 22, 2003 at 07:10 PM.]

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What really annoys me is the smokers that treat the world as their ash tray and subject me to their 2nd hand smoke.

 

Many years ago, I think at a Sierra club meeting, I watched a smoker take apart his cigarette butt and put the filter in a zip lock bag to pack out. I still have a great deal of respect for him.

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

...And while a smoker cannot usually be distiguished from a non-smoker by looks alone...


 

Accually I can tell a long term smoker from a non-smoker more than 50% of the time. There is a subtle off color to the skin.

 

Some of my best friends are smokers. One reason they are friends is that respect my right not to inhale their poison.

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quote:
Originally posted by st_richardson:

Some of my best friends are smokers. One reason they are friends is that respect my right not to inhale their poison.


 

Fully agreed.

 

I have one friend who is an 'occasional' smoker - but when he does, he does it outside (even when at his own home) and well away from others. I think he realises the effect that the sticks have on other people, and prefers not to share it, even if it means he is excluded from the conversation until he's finished. Fair play to him - and more often than not, we'll just wait for him to return before carrying on.

 

On the other hand, while we've been in the course of discussing this matter, I visited another friends home - both he and his father who he lives with are very heavy smokers, and a five minute visit left my clothes stinking (my partner knew where I had been without me telling her). I wouldn't dream of asking them not to light up in their own home - that would be downright rude - but it does all seem to be about attitude.

 

The latter friend will quite happily light up wherever he sees fit, and even get bolshy if we all go out and don't sit in the smoking section (which ultimately affects the majority of us non-smokers).

 

I'd not thought about it before, but he doesn't seem much of a friend, really, if he's willing to do that to his.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

soapbox.gif

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I will admit smoke of any kind stinks. I once worked with a man who would suck a cig down in about 4 puffs and then come and work right next to me at the tech bench and talk in my face. As a smoker I was offended at the smell of his coffee/tobacco breath icon_frown.gif

 

I would also like to say that at my job, we are not allowed to smoke by the rear entrance anymore. So when it is freezing cold outside, I still have to walk almost a block away to smoke. Since I spend more time at work than I do with my family and friends, I feel I am being more than courteous to my share of the non smoking population I interact with on a daily basis.

 

My case is the same as millions of others, it is an expensive and unhealthy habit that is not easy to break. If you know of a sure fire, set in stone method of quitting, please let me know. You would save me almost $2k yearly and maybe even add a few years to my life icon_smile.gif

 

Kar

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

If you know of a sure fire, set in stone method of quitting, please let me know.


 

Just take a moment, breathe deeply, and decide that you will no longer hold a cigarette. It really comes down to one straightforward decision.

 

That's how I quit. It was hard but once I realized my body wanted the nicotine I was embarrassed by it. Knowing that you have become a slave to your addiction is the first step. It's just like any other addiction.

 

I guess the patches and gum works for the initial craving stages, but I considered all of that penance for the stupidity of my habit.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

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