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Geocaching smokers?!


Verboten

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Ok, I just have to get this out of my system. If posts here tell the story, I guess I am the only smoker that geocaches.

 

Non-smoking is a good way to be. I have great respect for those who never picked up smoking, and more respect for those that did and quit. But why do people hate us smokers so much?

 

Ok, I'll give you that most smokers are inconsiderate. They'll flick a used butt anywhere they feel like. But most people are inconsiderate. Most people trash in and stroll out. Geocachers don't. Likewise, us geocaching smokers (if there are any others) tend to be more responsible than our non-geocaching counterparts.

 

I carry a tin and pack my butts out. So please, don't hate me?

 

-Vb

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Smokers and fishermen (other than me) are the biggest slobs on the planet. Walk along any roadside and look at the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of butts. And walk along any stream and find hundreds of empty bait containers and balls of mono. Disgusting!

 

And to make matters worse, cars don't come with ashtrays anymore (unless you want to pay extra).

My new CRv has an ashtray type device, but it's felt lined and has the words "this is not an ashtray" printed inside (I hear it has something to do with another stupid government regulation).

 

But where the heck do they expect smokers to put their cigarette butts? Dumb, dumb, dumb!

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 17, 2003 at 05:32 AM.]

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I'm sure there are a ton of other smokers that geocache (we're not the fittest of groups.) Its nice to hear that you take the butts out with ya because that is a gross form litter.

 

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______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

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I smoke. I make no excuses. I'm trying to quit. Aren't we all? Actually, I'm really really trying, cause I want to marry someone who won't marry me if I am a smoker. Good enough reason for me!

 

I tend not to smoke while caching. It has more to do with the discomfort of smoking after making some sort of physical effort to arrive at the cache site.

 

In my car, I have this thing that looks like a travel coffee mug. You put the butt in it, and flip down the lid, and it smothers the cigarette. I don't flick them out the window, mainly because of fear of setting something on fire.

 

----------

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be also be like him.

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are you referring to another thread where some one implied it would be OK to pick on smokers and other undesirables?

 

that bugged me. i'll reveal my bias and say that smoke bothers me, and every time i see a butt get flicked on the ground it just about makes my blood boil.

 

but i've seen plenty of field stip butts and pocket the filters.

gum wrappers and beer cans also bother me.

 

it also seems unfair to categorize any group of people as more deserving of blame or criticism than others. hmm. 'nuff said.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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quote:
Smokers and fishermen (other than me) are the biggest slobs on the planet.

 

Ouch! That hurts! icon_frown.gif

 

I think there's slobs in every group. If i had a penny for every beer can or mountain dew bottle that i've picked up, i'd be able to pay for my geo-gas. And how about those blue Walmart bags. You see those hanging on trees, bushes and fences everywhere.

 

You're not alone Verboten........I trash out my butts too icon_smile.gif

 

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

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quote:
Smokers and fishermen (other than me) are the biggest slobs on the planet.

 

So, all smokers and all fishermen are the biggest slobs on the planet. Other than you.

 

And here I thought there was an image problem. Anyway, this made me think of something in my high school yearbook that always gave me a chuckle:

 

"First, I got to tell you that cigarettes and nature and beer don't really go together - But keep doing it because it's what makes you so special..."

 

This was from a Parisienne. And I think you have to smoke there, by law!

 

-Vb

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First let me say thank you to Verboten for your very rare smoking practices. You are a very rare smoker indeed.

 

I'm not a smoker and never have been. I don't like being inside of places that smokers are. It makes my clothes smell and gives me a head ache if I'm there for too long.

 

I know lots of people that smoke and a few of my relatives do as well. Of all the people I know that have this habit my father-in-law is the only courteous smoker I have ever met. He does not smoke when around others that do not, he does not smoke in his vehicles or house because he has friends and relatives that do not and he has never in my knowledge ever thrown a butt on the ground. He field strips them and puts the butts in his pocket to be thrown away later.

 

If more smokers were like my father-in-law and Verboten then there would be less stereotyping of smokers as being inconsiderate slobs. Unfortunately 99% of smokers are inconsiderate slobs.

 

Probabley a good thing I'm not a cop because I would give a ticket to every one I saw throwing a butt on the ground for littering. And every one still lit a ticket for attempted arson.

 

SilverRubicon

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quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Johnson's:

If i had a penny for every beer can or mountain dew bottle that i've picked up, i'd be able to pay for my geo-gas.


You'd get ten pennies for each in Michigan! You could drive ten different cars to caches!

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

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quote:
are you referring to another thread where some one implied it would be OK to pick on smokers and other undesirables?

 

Why, yes I am. But I've seen many other posts here equally opposed to the evils of tobacco and those who use it.

 

quote:
Vb: So, all smokers and all fishermen are the biggest slobs on the planet. Other than you.

 

BrianSnat: Yes.


 

Brian, you're a funny guy. I bet you and I would get along well. I'm not yankin your chain, either. Let me know if you ever make it up to WNY.

 

-Vb

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quote:
He field strips them and puts the butts in his pocket to be thrown away later.

Ugh! I hate when I don't have a tin or empty film container. Stashing butts in the pocket sucks, but I do it when I have to.

 

quote:
Unfortunately 99% of smokers are inconsiderate slobs.

99% of people are inconsiderate slobs. That's my point.

 

-Vb

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quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

Ugh! I hate when I don't have a tin or empty film container. Stashing butts in the pocket sucks, but I do it when I have to.

 

-Vb


 

See that is the difference between you and the majority, you would when you have to and everyone else would instead just throw them on the ground. Thank you, I now know of two responsible smokers. I hope you also consider those around you before lighting up and impossing your smoke onto them as well. If so then I can say I also know of two considerate smokers as well.

 

SilverRubicon

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quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

99% of _people_ are inconsiderate slobs. That's my point.

 

-Vb


 

This may be true but they don't run around with something to throw on the ground ever waking minute. Yes they do throw stuff on the ground, but unlike smokers, most don't do this dozens of times a day and most don't consider it perfectly acceptable to do so. The smokers I know don't feel it is littering to throw a butt on the ground. I would have to say everyone knows it is littering to throw a can or bottle on the ground. That is why most don't but most smokers do.

 

SilverRubicon

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quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

...why do people hate us smokers so much?


Because...

quote:

...most smokers are inconsiderate. They'll flick a used butt anywhere they feel like...


Actually, it's not the smokers I hate; it's their inconsiderate and selfish actions. Not only do most "flick a used butt anywhere they feel like", they also seem to litter other material more than nonsmokers, from my observations. And while smoking is now banned inside most public buildings within the U.S., why do smokers need to congregate right outside the exits? Do they think non-smokers enjoy walking through their foul-air gauntlet? The habit is so widespread that many places have begun posting signs prohibiting smoking within "X" feet of the exits.

 

And then there are the statistics. Smokers tend to be less productive on the job (takefrequent smoke breaks), take more sick time, and take more from the health care system than they contribute. Nonsmokers get stuck with paying the difference.

 

Finally, there's the issue of second-hand smoke. It's a documented health problem within the U.S., and it's far worse across the rest of the world. Most countries are 20-30 years behind the U.S. where smoking is concerned. A larger percentage of the people smoke, and they smoke everywhere.

 

So smokers

pollute the environment

take more than they give

endanger the health of others

"But why do people hate them so much?" icon_confused.gif

I just don't know. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Worldtraveler

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I've attended several meeting of the Maryland Geocaching Society, and am now convinced that all geocachers in Maryland smoke.

 

When they all go hunting caches, I'm sure it looks like a forest fire.

 

I guess if I had to live in Maryland, I'd pick up some vice too. Drink maybe. 7;^)>

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.

 

-Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)

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quote:
and take more from the health care system than they contribute. Nonsmokers get stuck with paying the difference.

 

Actually this is a commonly repeated fallicy. In reality, because smokers die much younger than the rest of the population, they actually save us money in the end.

 

The bulk of healthcare dollars are spent during the last year or so of a person's life, whether they smoke or not. For smokers, this generally occurs in their 50's and 60's. For everyone else, their 70's and 80's. Since they are around 10-20 years less than the rest of us, a lot of money is saved over that time.

 

So by dying young, smokers are actually saving healthcare dollars. Smoke away!

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

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I can give you a few examples.....

 

El Paso has a non-somking ordinance. It was voted in by the people. Now let me explain. I am a gun owner, and I know how rediculously stupid people can get about things. Even constitutionally protected RIGHTS like gun ownership. I voted against the smoking ban. But it was passed. And I can see why.

 

For example. I was out with my wife, kids, and their surrogate grandparents. (my folks are in Chicago, wife's in Germany) Grandma is 80+, full-time in a power wheelchair, and full-time on oxygen. We asked for , AND GOT, a table in a resturant as far away from the smoking section as we could be. During the meal, the fellow on the next table lights up. I asked him politely to put it out, he was in the no-smoking section and one of our party already has trouble breathing. His answer, "F-CK YOU. What are you going to do about it?"

 

Well, I went to the manager. He whined a bit, but refused to tack action. So we left. Now I know this action was probably the exception, not the rule. But still, some somkers think it is their right to light up, and if you don't like, you can leave. So the somking ban passed. I don't agree with it, but there it is. We do go out a bit more now than we did before.

 

The point is this. There is now a law in place that didn't need to be, except for a few people not polite enough to think of others and follow a simple sign. I don't like it. But I can see how it happened.

 

About picking up butts..... I cannot tell you how many tons of butts I picked up in the army over 20 years. I believe in cache in-trash out. But I will not pick up butts. If you smoke, you clean it up. Or wait for the park to ban smoking. I won't agree with it. But I can see it coming !!!

 

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

 

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

 

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

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quote:
Not only do most "flick a used butt anywhere they feel like", they also seem to litter other material more than nonsmokers, from my observations.

 

Where do you hang out? I have to honestly say that it's a pretty rare occassion that I've actually seen anyone throw somthing out the window of their car or litter. (It obviously happens......I just havn't seen it) But I have to say that I did not notice whether they had a cigarette in their mouth when they did it. It's a stereotype to say that most smokers do this.......

 

As far as taking from the health care system......that gets drained from every direction. Low income or no income people with no insurance is one..........but lets not forget the largest group of folks draining it......attornies and insurance companies. But that's a whole 'nother rant......

 

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

Actually, it's not the smokers I hate; it's their inconsiderate and selfish actions.


Yes and I find non-smokers that benefit from the taxes that come from smokers and then female dog about them inconsiderate and selfish.
quote:
why do smokers need to congregate right outside the exits? Do they think non-smokers enjoy walking through their foul-air gauntlet?
I don't know what non-smokers enjoy. Frankly I don't care. I have to see and smell alot of things that I don't like. But you know what I act like an adult and don't complain about it because people have the right to look bad and smell horrible. Besides I am too out of breath to walk any further.
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Smokers tend to be less productive on the job (_take_frequent smoke breaks),
Then I will just smoke at my desk.
quote:
_take_ more sick time,
With the exception of being in the hospital once I think I have used maybe a dozen sick days in over 25 years of working.
quote:
and _take_ more from the health care system than they contribute. Nonsmokers get stuck with paying the difference.
I have only been in the hospital once in my adult life and that is because of a car accident. Trust me the health care system owes me based on what has been paid into it on my behalf.
quote:
Finally, there's the issue of second-hand smoke. It's a documented health problem within the U.S.,
Most of those studies have been shown to be flawed. But a four cylinder car driving on the highway for one mile emits more harmful toxins than one cigarette. Will you be staying away from cars?
quote:
So smokers

+ pollute the environment

+ take more than they give

+ endanger the health of others

"But why do people hate them so much?" icon_confused.gif

I just don't know. icon_rolleyes.gif


I thought when you said finally earlier that meant you were done. Gee but I say the same thing about the urban gangs that are running around our cities. Maybe we should just give them cigarettes.
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

...In reality, because smokers die much younger than the rest of the population, they actually save us money in the end...


Sorry, but I've got to disagree with you, BrianSnat. A nonsmoker who dies in their 70's or 80's has generally contributed 40-50 years of healthy productivity beforehand and, therefore, greatly offset the cost of their health care in their later years. A smoker who croaks in their 50's or 60's has generally already cost a great deal to the health care system. They probably haven't retired yet, and their last few years have probably been completely unproductive due to hospital stays. This is at a time when their productivity and earnings would normally be at their peak. And they've contributed far fewer productive years to offset those costs.

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Why do smokers need to congregate right outside the exits?
So they don't have to walk too far? Us smokers don't breath so good. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

quote:
And then there are the statistics. Smokers tend to be less productive on the job
Please take those statistics and shove them somewhere appropriate. There are three kinds of lies. Lies, dadgum Lies, and Statistics.

 

If you care to cite statistical studies on worker productivity amongst smokers please cite them. Though, they're still only statistics. (See above) Otherwise, STFU.

 

quote:
Finally, there's the issue of second-hand smoke. It's a documented health problem within the U.S., and it's far worse across the rest of the world.
Documented?! Excuse me, but I have to once again ask for evidence of your claim. How exactly do you define "documented health problem"? Please show me definative evidence that second-hand smoke is detrimental to the health of non-smokers. Especially in an outdoor environment.

 

This was meant to be a rational discussion about geocachers who smoke. I think you may have made a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

 

-Vb

 

[This message was edited by Verboten on April 17, 2003 at 06:59 AM.]

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quote:
and _take_ more from the health care system than they contribute. Nonsmokers get stuck with paying the difference.


 

Actually studies have proven that smokers cost less to the health care system then non-smokers because they die quicker and younger.

 

Up here, where smoking is almost outlawed, we're starting to work on the "red meat" eaters.

 

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

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I am very mean to smokers, mostly because I work at apartment buildings where college students smoke. We made a new rule saying smoking inside the apartments was forbidden, but instead of putting the butts out in their ashtrays, they throw it out on the ground. I just spent all day yesterday cleaning up thousands of butts! Not a very fun job... icon_frown.gif

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

 

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle

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quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Johnson's:

...Where do you hang out? I have to honestly say that it's a pretty rare occassion that I've actually _seen_ anyone throw somthing out the window of their car or litter. (It obviously happens......I just havn't seen it)...


I "hang out" at many places inside and outside the U.S. since my business requires me to travel extensively. Unlike you, I do observe many people littering. Outside the U.S., it's very common. I observe it less frequently within the U.S., but when I do, it is inevitably a smoker. It struck me several years ago that whenever I saw someone litter, they were also smoking. At first I thought it was strange and wondered whether it was just a coincidence; so I started to pay particular attention whenever I saw someone litter to see whether they were also smoking. I cannot recall a time since then where that has not been the case.

 

Worldtraveler

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I feel left out. I am a tobacco chewer, but I am worried enough about a raccoon eating my discarded plug, that I do not do it on the trail. I always do it in the car. And I never use a Skoal can for a micro, although I have seen posts regarding that.

 

Make a sanity check.migo_sig_logo.jpg

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This thread has me fuming (pun intended).

 

quote:
Smokers and fishermen (other than me) are the biggest slobs on the planet.

 

What a self-centred, hypocritical thing to say. You put everyone with a particular characteristic (a large part of the population, btw) into a single group, then remove yourself as if you're the only exception. What a joke.

 

quote:
See that is the difference between you and the majority, you would when you have to and everyone else would instead just throw them on the ground. Thank you, I now know of two responsible smokers.

 

Make that three. icon_smile.gif Actually, I think that the majority of smokers are responsible, but you'd never know it because there's nothing to see to indicate that fact. If you're following someone who's driving down the freeway smoking and they put their cigarette out in their ashtray, the odds are that you'd never even know that they had one lit. It's easy to see the "bad" smokers; "good" smokers are invisible.

 

quote:
...take more from the health care system than they contribute. Nonsmokers get stuck with paying the difference.

 

The health care issue has been already been taken care of, so I won't add to it. As for "paying the difference", I'm a single male with no kids and I'm not a home owner. I'm subsidizing other peoples' mortgages as well as the cost of raising and educating their kids. In return, these people vote to take more of my money, take away my right to bear arms and take away my right to smoke in my own home. Who's "taking" here?

 

quote:
Finally, there's the issue of second-hand smoke.

 

A recent study (don't have a link, sorry - I heard about it on the radio) determined that simply breathing the air in the Los Angeles basin was as detrimental to your health as living with a 2-pack-a-day smoker. You can whine about 2nd hand smoke all you want, but regardless of the cigarette smoke, the air you're breathing in a major metropolitan city is just as bad.

 

Gotta go to work now. I'd like to stay, though - this is a fun thread. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--

Random fortune:

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This is the strangest thread. I think its funny how people are reacting. Is it a surprise to anyone that non-smokers don't like smelling like cigarettes, that many smokers litter, or that some smokers have no concern for people who are trying to breathe the air which they have fouled?

 

I think its great that some smokers are mindful of how they're addiction affects everyone else. That's great.

 

As for the health care issue. Trust me, the cost of the health care provided to smokers because of disease caused by smoking more than outweighs the costs I will use by living my full life, plus I will have more years to pay into the system before I start incurring large health-related expenses.

 

To the people who are getting inflamed (no pun intended), learn to recognize sarcasm.

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quote:
Originally posted by Verboten:

Note to worldtraveler: _Correlation does _not_ imply causation!_

 

Please, tell us more of your, how do your scientists say? Anecdotal evidence?

 

-Vb


 

You opened this topic by asking "But why do people hate us smokers so much?" I answered by first stating that I don't hate smokers, just their selfish and inconsiderate actions. I gave both personal and a few "common knowledge" examples of why people could tend to hate smokers. I cited no specific studies for the "common knowledge" examples because I wasn't trying to "prove" anything; I was merely answering your question. If you doubt the validity of these "common knowledge" perceptions and want to change them, the onus is on you to prove them inaccurate. You could try a google search on "secondhand smoke" and "smokers productivity"; but you've already indicated your bias against statistics, so I'm not sure what you're going to use to change the perception.

 

Do you normally ask a question and then shoot the messenger? Or is it only when you get an answer you don't like?

 

Worldtraveler

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quote:
Originally posted by Cruzin:

...simply breathing the air in the Los Angeles basin was as detrimental to your health as living with a 2-pack-a-day smoker.


 

Sounds like they should ban the Los Angeles basin from going into restaurants. Not sure how the unhealthiness of the basin supports an argument for smoking though.

 

As a former smoker it is a disgusting, addictive habit. Your hand stinks, your clothes stink and you stink, and you don't know how bad because your senses have been hampered by your own stench.

 

After smoking for a long time I now have smoke-dar, and it makes me ill to smell it. I no longer go to clubs that allow smoking because after a night breathing second hand smoke I'm sick for two days, hacking and coughing. Bollocks to your ancedotal evidence about second-hand smoke.

 

When it comes to disgusting self destructive behavior I could care less. But I take the libertarian stance that if you want to stink that's your business, but I don't have to stink along with you. So enjoy your smoke but don't bother me with it.

 

As for littering it's all bad, so people who do it are bad too. However, I'm not going to get trapped into a stereotype that all smokers are litterers. That's a silly trap indeed.

 

When I'm out on a trail and someone near me is smoking, it is akin to smelling a corpse. It's really offensive. Sorry.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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Verboten, thank you very much for keeping track of your butts. That's lovely.

 

Now, could you (and every other smoker out there) please pay attention to wind currents and STOP MOVING UPWIND OF ME???

 

Thank you.

 

Published experts (1, 2) say with certainty that critical situations will arise which are totally unexpected.

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But the interesting thing about this thread has been to see the true colors of some people here. All of those who have said they hate smokers or treat smokers badly or smokers are fill in the blank, are doing that and basing it all on broad generalizations. And these people feel they are completely justified in doing so and nobody calls them on the fact that they are stereotyping.

 

Now let’s replace smokers with say a particular race, or sex, or national origin. Well I can only think the outrage that would be voiced calling these same people racists, bigots, xenophobes (sp). But it is OK to do it to groups that some see as being fair to attack. Then people say that one does not get to choose those things people do make a choice to smoke. OK how about people with long hair, people that have particular occupations, whatever. Same thing.

 

And I am sure most of these people that feel fully justified in saying those things about smokers would be appalled if one pointed out that such thinking is no different than being racist and would dispute it as being anywhere close to the same thing. I don’t know but it seems to me that you don’t get to turn off and on the ability to stereotype at will. If it is wrong for one group then I have to think it would be wrong to do it for any group.

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quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

Now let’s replace smokers with say a particular race, or sex, or national origin.


 

How about we replace a bad analogy with a good one?

 

How can race, or sex, or national origin relate to smoking? One is a state of existence, and the other is a behavior. If someone blows smoke in your face is that the same as being a citizen with a national origin that isn't your own? Come back to earth.

 

I do agree that saying "all smokers are litters" is a silly statement to make. But I don't agree that they are "special needs" citizens that require non-smokers to go out of their way to accomodate them.

 

Please no more red herrings.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

A nonsmoker who dies in their 70's or 80's has generally contributed 40-50 years of healthy productivity beforehand and, therefore, greatly offset the cost of their health care in their later years. A smoker who croaks in their 50's or 60's has generally already cost a great deal to the health care system. They probably haven't retired yet, and their last few years have probably been completely unproductive due to hospital stays.


Not only that but those non-smokers who have retired are spending money keeping the economy going. That is something that dead smokers cannot do too long after they die (although, bills keep coming in for some time).

 

And now that first-time parents are older than they have been in the past, it is more likely that a 50-some-year old smoker who dies would have children at home who need to be cared for. Thus, smoking and dying early could be a drain on public assistance.

 

Having said all that, I was a tobacco (dipped) user for 20 years. It is going on two years now without a dip. I am healthier, but of course, this has nothing to do with the conversation . . . icon_smile.gif

 

Fro.

 

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

Now let’s replace smokers with say a particular race, or sex, or national origin.


 

How about we replace a bad analogy with a good one?


Oh boy, I then went on to say, "Then people say that one does not get to choose those things people do make a choice to smoke. OK how about people with long hair, people that have particular occupations, whatever. Same thing." The point of the post was to point out how "silly" (your word) and wrong it is to make a general statement like some that have shown up here. It addressed the mind-set of the person(s) making the statement. Not the actions of the person(s) that was being stereotyped.
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quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

OK how about people with long hair, people that have particular occupations, whatever. Same thing."


 

I'm confused. Are you comparing smoking to having long hair?

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

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I don't hate smokers. Just the dadgum smoke. Nothing like taking a bit of your nice dinner out when at the same time you get a mouth and nose full of smoke from a nearby table.

 

It's the same when you are working on building a fence and your helper takes a smoke break and stands so that the wind blows it into your face.

 

Unless you are a smoker (and sometimes even then) the smell of smoke is not pleasant.

 

A little courtesy goes a long way. I do know some smokers do this crap just to be annoying and prove their point. Their point really being "gee I can get away with being an a******"

 

I grew up in a smoking household. Until I went to college and came back I never noticed anything. What an eye opener. My parents eventually quit and if they happen to break down they now go outside and keep their house smoke free.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

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I think i'll reply to this one the same way i replied to the one a couple months ago:

 

quote:
posted March 13, 2003 08:33 PM

Why would anyone want to quit smoking?

 

I mean, seriously. What are you going to do while waiting for the bus? Or when you first wake up in the morning? Or after a meal or during a beer?

 

If it weren't for us smokers, the social security system would collapse in weeks. Roads would crumble and schools would close. Entire communities in Virginia would be forced to either work at Taco Bell or legalize gambling.

 

What will happen to your sence of scornfulness when you're forced to go outside during parties for 10 minutes at a time at regular intervals?

 

By quitting smoking, you're falling in with the herd, conforming to the homogenous. Say goodbye to any individuality you may have held dear.

 

But most importantly, how are you going to reward yourself after a strenuous, rewarding hike in the wilderness for a geocache?

 

Nobody likes a quitter!

 


 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

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quote:
Originally posted by GrizzlyJohn:

The point of the post was to point out how "silly" (your word) and wrong it is to make a general statement like some that have shown up here. It addressed the mind-set of the person(s) making the statement. Not the actions of the person(s) that was being stereotyped.


 

I am starting to get your point. Some have certainly shown here that they can generalize and stereotype the smoker. I have agreed in previous posts.

 

It's a bit of a red herring to bring out the race or sex card. It diminishes those issues.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

It's a bit of a red herring to bring out the race or sex card. It diminishes those issues.


I did not think that we disagreed on the issue of generalizing and stereotyping, your first post that came in as I was typing mine called it a "silly trap", I agree. I don't mean to diminish those issues but sometimes one has to go to the extreme to make the point. Showing how stereotyping is wrong with an example that everybody understands and many would probably agree is wrong I think makes the point eaiser to see. Perhaps that was not the case here. I would compare having long hair to smoking only in regard to say that it is something that is obvious to set a person apart from someone else. I don't think it is a red herring. If it is wrong to stereotype or generalize for one group it would imply that it is wrong to do it for any group no matter how the group is defined. And maybe the more "silly" the way the group is divided the more silly the use of a stereotype becomes. Of course it seems that positive stereotypes are always OK.
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It's very simple for me... as related to geocaching (this is a geocaching forum right?) I get annoyed with reminders of the outside world when I've purposefully enganged myself in an activity that get's me out of that world. When I go hiking or caching or biking, it is generally to get away from the city, and more importantly, from people. Seeing a butt, or smelling cig smoke while on the trail jars me out of my happy, nature induced state of pseudo-bliss faster than just about anything. I don't hate smokers, I just hate the smokers that ruin my hike.

 

"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." -George Burns

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I am more convinced than ever that the most common characteristic of humans it to whine. I am guilty of it as well.

 

Some people stink. Some folks don't. Some people wear tons of makeup or cologne, some don't. Some folks have perpetual gaseous emissions icon_confused.gif, some not so much. Some folks have amazingly bad breath, some folks don't. Just put it all in perspective. Try living near a dairy. Or a paper plant. I lived downwind from a commercial mushroom plant once. Talk about smelling like rotting corpses. We would warn anyone before they came to visit us, that if the wind wasn't favorable.. well....

 

I have been on both sides of the smoking/non-smoking fence. It is indeed a disgusting vice, but it is a vice. Being mean to someone because they smoke isn't going to make them quit, and it says more about you than it does them, in my opinion.

 

The best thing you can do is be supportive if and when they decide to quit. You can't make someone quit, they have to do that on their own. If you have never had the habit, you can't possibly understand it.

 

Let the whining continue...

 

WARNING: I cannot be responsible for the above, as apparently my cats have learned how to type.

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Good grief! I go and actually work for a few hours and come back to find this thread is near overflowing.

 

Considering the response of the anti-smoking crowd, maybe we could get the smokers to distribute religious literature in caches for us. Effectively ticking off two birds with one stone. icon_wink.gif

 

SERIOUSLY, though, I was thinking last week about how long it has been since I had a cigar and wondering about burning one while caching. The mental image that returned was one of me out of breath from climbing hills like I had to walk last Friday, but this time with smoke in my eyes and ash up my nose.

 

If nothing else, I'm amazed at the coordination it must take to keep a fire burning that close to your nose without setting fire to yourself. icon_razz.gif

 

Bret

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quote:
Originally posted by CYBret:

I was thinking last week about how long it has been since I had a cigar and wondering about burning one while caching.


Ah, but unlike cigarettes, cigars smell good. And pipe tobacco is the bomb! IMHO. I won't smoke them, though.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

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quote:

Ah, but unlike cigarettes, cigars smell _good_. And pipe tobacco is the bomb! IMHO. I won't smoke them, though.


 

I've got a few pipes, but wouldn't really consider smoking them while caching. You really have to be sitting down and relaxed to get the full effect .. plus the blow back from the ash could be pretty nasty if the wind kicked up.

 

However, if there were a nice place to sit while logging your find . . . aaah . that could be nice. icon_wink.gif

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