Virtual cache – Does it require a recent visit?

[+datum]

I thought I knew the answer to this…but maybe I don’t. For the sake of discussion: Would you claim a find for a virtual cache that you are able to answer the question to without visiting it? Would you claim a find for a virtual cache that you may have visited before it was posted (say two years ago) but knew the answers to the question(s)? If you answered yes to the last question – What is a reasonable time in which to claim a virtual….two years….five years….ten? Doesn’t matter.

 

Is it up to the virtual cache sponsor to be very specific as to what they require in order to claim the virtual as a find?

 

I have mixed feelings about virtuals and locationless caches. Seems to me there is a lot of room for interpretation as to what constitutes a find. Of course, none of this matters. We’re all doing this for fun. We’re all doing this for ourselves. You’re only fooling yourself? So does ANYTHING go?

 

Just curious…..

[+MartyFouts]

quote:

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Originally posted by datum:

I thought I knew the answer to this…but maybe I don’t. For the sake of discussion: Would you claim a find for a virtual cache that you are able to answer the question to without visiting it? Would you claim a find for a virtual cache that you may have visited before it was posted (say two years ago) but knew the answers to the question(s)? If you answered yes to the last question – What is a reasonable time in which to claim a virtual….two years….five years….ten? Doesn’t matter.

 

Is it up to the virtual cache sponsor to be very specific as to what they require in order to claim the virtual as a find?

 

I have mixed feelings about virtuals and locationless caches. Seems to me there is a lot of room for interpretation as to what constitutes a find. Of course, none of this matters. We’re all doing this for fun. We’re all doing this for ourselves. You’re only fooling yourself? So does ANYTHING go?

 

Just curious…..

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I, personally, won't log a virtual unless I visit the site(s) specifically to do so.

 

On the other hand, as a cache hider, I don't ask people if they went specifically, although almost all of the logs of my one virtual cache indicate that they have.

[azog]

I second Marty's opinion. There's a virtual cache fairly close to me, but I was last there about 18 months ago. I could easily answer the verification question, but it just won't sit well with my conscience unless I actually go visit it.

 

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One banana, two banana, three banana, four.

Four bananas make a bunch and so do many more.

[+EraSeek]

The cache (virtual or not) does not exisit until it is posted. You have not visited it unless you did so after it was up on the site. You must actually visit a site and not just find it on the web, so likewise you must actually visit a site AFTER it is in fact a cache site.

 

There is a virtual cache above 10,000' that is a spot I have been to many times, but I was obligated by fairplay to return to it again to claim it as a find once it went up.

 

[+briansnat]

Unless they are asking for specific info to verify your visit, then I don't see a big deal about logging a find. With all the people who log visits to their own caches, or log finds on caches that have been missing for months, because they "know" they were in the right spot, I wouldn't lose any sleep over logging a virtual that you've visited before. If the cache owner doesn't like your log, he'll delete it.

 

There is one virt that I logged as a find because I had visited the site several dozen times before it became a virtual cache. The cache owner didn't ask for specific verification info, so I logged it as a find. I've since visited it 5 or 6, so I didn't have a qualm about logging the cache as a find.

 

It would seem silly to me to go there with my GPS, just so I can log the find.

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

[+EraSeek]

If you do not have qualms about logging a find that you have not actually visited when it has exisited as a cache, you should have even LESS qualms about NOT logging it as a FIND. Log it as a NOTE. note: ''yeah, I been here before, yada yada..''

[+datum]

Can you complete an event before it becomes an event? In a sport, can you do really well in practice then when the actual event takes place claim last weeks practice as today’s event?

 

Send me my Gold Medal....I won that last week...

[+datum]

Does the virtual cache sponsor have all the responsibility in spelling out exactly what he wants for one to claim credit on a virtual cache? Or are there some basics rules that we should assume when doing a virtual cache keeping in mind the spirit of Geocaching?

 

If a virtual cache sponsor does cover all the ifs, ands or buts in his cache description, is it OK to take advantage of that to log another find?

 

Are we still Geocaching?

[boreal jeff & sons]

Would it be considered a find if you knew the answer to the question, had been there before but not recently. Then you were going to visit the cache again but a truck ran over you and you can't visit the site until you are healed. Could you claim it as a find with the intention that once you can do it, you will?

 

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

[+Trudy & the beast]

We have been in the same situation. I couldn't feel confortable posting it until we actually found our way to it and compared the posted and found L&L... that's what we did. We made the effort and then posted it. Now we have of guilt for claiming the find. Yes, it became a "drive-by" for us, but we used our GPSr to get there.

[+EraSeek]

I don't know if there are any real basic rules other than honor, fairplay, common sense, and karma, but I have began trying to spell it out on my caches CONTACT: a Time and Distance cache for those who can't firgure it out for themselves.

 

[+datum]

Not a bad idea to be very specific in regards to the requirements of a virtual. See Ferrum Equinus. But...shouldn't that go without saying?

 

[This message was edited by datum on September 08, 2002 at 09:42 AM.]

[+brdad]

Hmm, I allready logged one without going, you're all making me feel bad!

 

Actually, the owner said all you had to do was tell what was there, and I could do that easily. And I have been to the location several times before and once since then. If the owner stated in the cache details I had to visit, then I would have waited.

 

I think it should be up to the placer, don't most of them start out stating, "To log this visit you must..."? I'd think asking a question that most people would not know or remember, like how many steps, a number stamped on a stone or plaque at the location, or something of that nature would make it more foolproof if the owner is concerned about actual visits. If I place a virtual, I probably will do something like that.

 

When life gives you urine, make urinade.

[+datum]

Is that in the true spirit of Geocaching?

 

Log a find by any means? Is that what everybody is doing?

 

What do you say when a friend asks you to explain Geocaching to them? Do you tell them of your adventures in the outdoors in finding the cache? Do you tell them of all the different places you’ve been? Do you tell them of the sights you’ve seen? Do you explain that the process of actually finding the cache is the reason you’re motivated and have had all these wonderful experiences?

 

Or…do you tell them?

 

I go there all the time…so I just logged a find.

 

I didn’t leave my chair. Found the answers on the internet. Logged it as a find. Pretty cool..huh?

 

I didn’t really go there yet…but I plan too…so I logged it as a find.

 

I just answered some dumb question…got credit for a find.

 

What was it that originally got you interested, fired up and hooked on Geocaching? Are you still doing it for that reason?

[+brdad]

quote:

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Originally posted by datum:

Is that in the true spirit of Geocaching?

 

Log a find by any means? Is that what everybody is doing?

---

 

If I had any doubts to the owner's wishes, I would have not hesitated to wait until I went. Check the description out for yourself: What in the World Cache?

 

I also logged a physical cache that I knew within 5 feet of where it was just by the description (Yes, after I went there and signed the log book and traded). That was easier than the virtual, I at least had to look that up on a map and verify my guess for the virtual one. Should I have not logged that?

 

The way I see it is this, some caches are easy, very easy. Everyone uses whatever resources are available to to them that they wish to use, and that varies between all of us. Cache placers make up their own rules for their own caches, and if that request is fullfilled I see no problem.

 

And to close the argument, it's a virtual, and I went there virtually. I could see myself looking at it, and could explain the entire object right now as if I was there. All other virtuals I have done I could not do that despite my familiarity with all of them, so I visited them.

 

When life gives you urine, make urinade.

 

[This message was edited by brdad on September 08, 2002 at 04:38 PM.]

[+lostinjersey]

I was done at a beach cleanup when i found an unusual memorial. I even took pictures. came home & found thatn earlier that same day someone created a VC from it. I logged the find. I was there that day, I answered the question I considered it a valid find. So what that I didn't know it was a cache till I got home? Now on the other hand if someone created a cache weeks later, that'd be kinda unfair to log it without going back.

 

It all comes down to whether or not you want to be a rules lawyer or not. Some people are, and some people aren't. I've gone to locaitonless caches sites and forgotten to take a picture of the GPS. I've been honest & up front and I've not had a problem before.

 

On the other hand there is a cache called Locks of britain. Find a loch (as in a canal) and log a find. The description doesn't say "in england only" but come on folks, it says "Locks of BRITAIN" not "Locks of the world" or "locks" it says Britain, so whadaya think? Someone from the US logged a find which prompted a note from someone about not being able to read, which prompted the response it doesntr specifically say England only.

 

My feeling: I know what he meant. I asked and the cache owner said yes, he meant britain but he never said that so "I guess I'll accept US logs." Well I found a lock recently and I havent logged a find because I don't think it would be in keeping with the placers intent.

 

Bottom line is: do what you feel is right. Just bear in mind that not everyone will agree and don't whine if they don't.

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I had visited this virtual cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=16712

after it was posted, but before I knew about geocaching. I went back to officially log it later.

 

There was another virtual cache 4 hours away that I found all of the information to solve it on the Internet. Instead of logging the cache, I emailed the owner to tell him how easy it would be for someone to log it without being there. (I even found a picture of someone else standing next to the landmark.)

 

I'm not a big fan of virtual caches, so I wouldn't log places I've previously visited anyway.

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by datum:

Would you claim a find for a virtual cache that you may have visited before it was posted (say two years ago) but knew the answers to the question(s)

---

 

Interesting. It certainly seems that 'hiders' of virtuals expect you to make a special visit. The questions asked are often such that you'd not notice unless you are looking...the number on a nearby street sign, for example.

 

For myself, if I knew the answers, and had been to the site, I'd log it (if I chose to log a virtual at all..there's only three or four that I've found interesting enough to look into...)

 

ApK

[+ApK]

quote:

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If the cache owner doesn't like your log, he'll delete it.

 

It would seem silly to me to go there with my GPS, just so I can log the find.

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

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I agree. There's no rule that says you must use a GPS for Geocaching, anyway. If you meet the virtual's conditions, it's find. If the Owner just said "go see this place", and you've seen it, you've found it (Like the Edison's Edification virtual), if they say "what's written on the bridge just beyond the site" (Like the Drive on the Parkway virtual) it doesn't matter if you driven by it everyday, unless you note that bridge sign, you haven't found the virtual.

 

ApK

[+parkrrrr]

It seems to me that the purpose of a virtual is to get you to a specific site and show you something you might otherwise have missed. If that's the kind of virtual we're talking about, I'd have no qualms about logging it no matter how long ago I'd been there.

 

On the other hand, if it's some other kind of virtual - one whose goal is to get you to jump through the cache placer's hoops, or one that is the last stage of a multistage virtual or something that you just happen to recognize from the logs, then I'd say it's not fair to log it without jumping through the hoops.

 

And if you've never been there at all but just found it on the internet, you shouldn't log it. (I have a virtual "find" on Dru Morgan's magic trick virtual cache in LA, because I knew about it from a book I read, but I'll still not log it until I've visited. If, on the other hand, I had visited it at some time in the past, I think I'd feel justified in logging it.)

 

[+martinp13]

As a virtual cache hider, I'm gonna make it dam hard for an armchair geocacher to scoop my cache. Don't ask something obvious, or even related to the virtual cache.

 

For my Stratosphere virtual cache in Las Vegas, I ask for a phone number up at the top. Even someone who goes there every day isn't going to know that useless trivia unless they go look at the phone, and my requirement is then met.

 

_____________________________________________________

> Martin (Magellan 330)

Don't have time to program and record your shows while geocaching? Get a TiVo!

[+martinp13]

As a virtual cache hider, I'm gonna make it dam hard for an armchair geocacher to scoop my cache. Don't ask something obvious, or even related to the virtual cache.

 

For my Stratosphere virtual cache in Las Vegas, I ask for a phone number up at the top. Even someone who goes there every day isn't going to know that useless trivia unless they go look at the phone, and my requirement is then met.

 

_____________________________________________________

> Martin (Magellan 330)

Don't have time to program and record your shows while geocaching? Get a TiVo!

[+Alamogul]

Hey - I need some help with a find (GC52AE Shipwreck - user Tangles)

 

I specifically went back to a specific location in Florida (drove many miles out of my way to get there) to get a picture with my GPS this time - now the cache owner, claims he doesn't like my picture since my GPS is a small item on a large gun and he keeps deleting my logs even though I have complied with all his rules. He won't even reply to an email.

 

"All I see is a YELLOW THING. .............How much trouble would it have been to do a close up of the GPS on the Canon? It's our CACHE and OUR RULES. Resubmit with an identifiable GPS for a find."

 

I am now 3000 miles away - that yellow thing is a Garmin Geko 201 - very identifiable (nothing else looks like it). I have fully complied with his rules, it is an original picture, my GPS is in it, I even provided him with a close up of the plaque describing the wreck. It is a legitimate find and my posts should not have been deleted.

 

What can I do? What recourse do I have?

[+briansnat]

quote:

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What can I do? What recourse do I have?

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None really. It's the owner's cache and his rules, though I do think he's a bit out of line. You were there and did what he asked. He just didn't like the quality of your photo. Not having seen it, I can't comment on that aspect, but looking at the other logs he allowed, there were very few that fulfilled his requirements to the letter.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

[OuttaHand]

Maybe you could try this: Open up the picture that you took in Photoshop (or any photo editing program). Highlight the area of the GPS and copy it out of the photo. Produce a second image of the GPS highly-enlarged -- hopefully showing enough detail to meet the person's requirements. Post both pics with your find log. In the log, add some comments about what you saw around you at the time -- things that will "prove" you were there. If it still gets deleted, then you've got no more options --- and you've got a cache-hider that is (sadly) more interested in details than in the spirit of the adventure. And that's just sad for HIM!