Pipe Bomb Discovered by Hiker

May 14, 2003

This story was just on the news.

Pipe Bomb Discovered By Hiker In Park

POSTED: 11:56 a.m. EDT May 14, 2003

WAYNE, N.J. -- A powerful pipe bomb found by a hiker in High Mountain Park Preserve was safely detonated, but authorities have few clues as to who put it there and why.

An unidentified Franklin Lakes man found the device around 6 p.m. Monday. It was under a tree about two miles into the park, far away from any homes or buildings, and authorities said it had a delicate trigger that was attacked to a bottle.

After Wayne police determined that the device was a bomb, they notified the Passaic County Sheriff's Department, which sent its bomb squad. North Haledon police then helped escort the sheriff's officers to the site, and the bomb was detonated a short time later.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms is investigating the matter with Wayne and North Haledon police. High Mountain Park Preserve, which is in both towns, contains more than 1,000 acres.

[This message was edited by Chris Dix on May 14, 2003 at 11:01 AM.]

May 14, 2003

Hmmm, uhh well...I guess that goes against what we've said all along. That no one would place a bomb in the middle of the woods. I'd like to see if they come up with anything as to why it was placed there.

Mr. 0

"Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested."

Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970

24.7k · May 14, 2003

I guess it depends on your motivation as an insane individual. Not that I would truly understand the motivation.

What really impresses me is that the hiker recognized it or at least knew enoug to call it in. While I don't like caches getting blown up by the bomb squad I'd rather have them err on the side of safety, every time.

Kudos to the hiker.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

2.3k · May 14, 2003

Good thing it wasn't a geocacher mistaking it for some new kind of cache.

6.4k · May 14, 2003

Not to say it isn't true (but i hope it isn't!) but I'm not that far from there and haven't heard about this yet, nor been able to find it on any of the local news sites. Can you give us a URL please?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

1.2k · May 14, 2003

Hmmm, typical of someone who is testing a new device they just made. Take it to some remote area to detonate it. When it malfunctioned and failed to detonate, the individual probably didn't want to walk back up on it to see what went wrong. Saw similar things up in North Texas. So what do you do with a malfunctioning bomb? You pretend you "found" it and call the police? Always a possibility. The other option is to abandon it and then some hiker finds it.

Who knows? But very doubtful it was just left in the wilderness for some nefarious reason.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

May 14, 2003

Used google to find this URL

http://www.wnbc.com/news/2203003/detail.html

May 14, 2003

Here is the URL

http://www.wnbc.com/news/2203003/detail.html

Oops, got beat to reply.

May 14, 2003

it was "attacked to a bottle"?

sorry couldn't resist

Happy Halloween

9.4k · May 14, 2003

If it had blown up, it would have 'attacked' it

May 14, 2003

I hate to be the negative one here but the police better be looking at the "finder" for this. If the trigger was delicate, then how did he find it and not set it off. This sounds pretty fishy to me.

When you see the light at the end of the tunnel, make sure it's not a train coming at you

6.4k · May 14, 2003

A better story that Fuzzy found for me.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

2.3k · May 14, 2003

"This hiker apparently had seen something up there a couple of months ago, but it was covered with snow at the time," he said."

Uh huh. Sure he did. Guess he just "forgot" to report it at the time. Coulda been someone dying, but don't bother, huh?

"a curious hiker could have easily tripped its delicate trigger", and-

"Had the mercury switch moved, it would have set off the bomb."

BUT-

"We took a water cannon and shot the power supply off. Then we put a charge around the pipe bomb and detonated in on the mountain."

not such a "delicate" trigger after all, I guess....

May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:
"We took a water cannon and shot the power supply off. Then we put a charge around the pipe bomb and detonated in on the mountain."

not such a hairtrigger after all, I guess....

Once the power supply was removed, the hair would have nothing to trigger.

2.3k · May 14, 2003

Sigh.

May 14, 2003

quote:
High Mountain Park Preserve covers more than 1,000 acres in Wayne and North Haledon. It is owned by The Nature Conservancy, Wayne, and the state.

Aha. I guess maybe those Nature Conservancy folks are a little PO'd that their scamming and the free ride are over.

Or maybe it's someone who contributed to the 'cause' and is feeling ripped off. There must be, oh, twenty or thirty million such folks in the US alone.

May 14, 2003

OK, I read the story from the site that Mopar was kind enough to post after reading the first article, and now I know for sure that it was either this hiker himself, or someone he knew put it there. I hope the police can prove it and put this person behind bars.

When you see the light at the end of the tunnel, make sure it's not a train coming at you

1.2k · May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team BooneDog:
OK, I read the story from the site that Mopar was kind enough to post after reading the first article, and now I know for sure that it was either this hiker himself, or someone he knew put it there. I hope the police can prove it and put this person behind bars.

When you see the light at the end of the tunnel, make sure it's not a train coming at you

Yeah, that's my read as well. Seems a bit involved for a "chance find" here.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

6.5k · May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Kodak's4:

quote:
High Mountain Park Preserve covers more than 1,000 acres in Wayne and North Haledon. It is owned by The Nature Conservancy, Wayne, and the state.

Aha. I guess maybe those Nature Conservancy folks are a little PO'd that their scamming and the free ride are over.

Or maybe it's someone who contributed to the 'cause' and is feeling ripped off. There must be, oh, twenty or thirty million such folks in the US alone.

Ive read all of the linked articals, and I still can't figure out why your ripping the TNC?? What did I miss?

May 14, 2003

I don't know much on the subject, but aren't mercury switches a little moore advanced than the average "Anarchists Cookbook" type bomb stuff ?

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by welch:

quote:
Originally posted by Kodak's4:

quote:
High Mountain Park Preserve covers more than 1,000 acres in Wayne and North Haledon. It is owned by The Nature Conservancy, Wayne, and the state.

Aha. _I guess maybe those Nature Conservancy folks are a little PO'd that their scamming and the free ride are over_.

Or maybe it's someone who contributed to the 'cause' and is feeling ripped off. There must be, oh, twenty or thirty million such folks in the US alone.

Ive read all of the linked articals, and I still can't figure out why your ripping the TNC?? What did I miss?

http://brillig.com/geocaching/http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/22008_1700.gif http://www.gpgeocaching.com/

Last week a series of articles in the Washington Post focused the the Nature Conservancy and their business/financial practices. The series did not show them in a good light.

========================================

"The time has come" the Walrus said "to speak of many things; of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and Kings".

May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dave54:

Last week a series of articles in the Washington Post focused the the Nature Conservancy and their business/financial practices. The series did not show them in a good light.

Link?

1k · May 14, 2003

quote:
from the story in Mopar's link:
The trigger was nailed to a tree and attached to a bottle, he said. "If a hiker would have picked up the bottle it would have exploded."

That does it; no more CITO for me!

quote:
The sensitive mercury switch could not be moved, so officers decided to blow up the bomb on the spot, he said. "We took a water cannon and shot the power supply off. Then we put a charge around the pipe bomb and detonated in on the mountain."

Okay, if they managed to separate the power supply from the bomb without detonating it, why was the immovable mercury switch still the reason they chose to detonate it on the mountain? Is this inaccurate reporting, unsound logic, or just my ignorance showing through?

And I agree with earlier posts; I hope the authorities thoroughly question the finder.

Worldtraveler

6.5k · May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dave54:
Last week a series of articles in the Washington Post focused the the Nature Conservancy and their business/financial practices. The series did not show them in a good light.

Didn't know that...

Was it about the the whole group? Or certain state's chapters?

May 14, 2003

Nature Conservancy article

Here is a link to one of the article in the series. The three article series starts on May fourth. I've always held the Nature Conservancy in high regard, so it will make interesting reading.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9888-2003May3.html

The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

May 14, 2003

This one sounds somewhat bizzre. Hmmm what sort of conspiracies can we come up with.... How about nature park dudes hoping to eliminate some geocachers by setting this thing up knowing they do the cache in "trash, (to include bottles)" out thing.

It would be interesting to learn more about the story, especially the outcome. Is it an individual wanting to be a hero by finding the thing. (Waiting months to come back to check something out sounds odd).

May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Chaoss:
I don't know much on the subject, but aren't mercury switches a little moore advanced than the average "Anarchists Cookbook" type bomb stuff ?

Nope, you can get one at any hardware store, many old type thermostats for home heating contain a merc switch that would do fine.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Chaoss:
I don't know much on the subject, but aren't mercury switches a little moore advanced than the average "Anarchists Cookbook" type bomb stuff ?

Nope, you can get one at any hardware store, many old type thermostats for home heating contain a merc switch that would do fine.

Actually, mercury switches are very old, and very poor, technology. This is similar to the incredibly dangerous designs you get in the type of books you mentioned. They work--if you don't blow yourself up getting it rigged. Whomever was playing with this wasn't the brightest of bombers.

Dave_W6DPS

My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only)

38.2k · May 14, 2003

Uh oh, the Artful Dodger's excellent Cauldrons Of Courage cache is in this park.

quote:
This one sounds somewhat bizzre. Hmmm what sort of conspiracies can we come up with.... How about nature park dudes hoping to eliminate some geocachers by setting this thing up knowing they do the cache in "trash, (to include bottles)" out thing.

Nope, if they were looking for geocachers, they would have posted it on this website and not left it for some hiker to discover.

I know this park well. I went to a college (Now William Paterson University) that is at the base of this mountain. We spent many an afternoon and evening doing illegal things up there (we may have abused some pledges and gotten bombed, but we never considered planting one).

My wild guess is that someone from the college is involved. You have a population of intelligent and quite possibly, mal-adjusted teens living at the base of the mountain.

But we have to put this in perspective. This is an aberration. Millions of people hike, thousands geocache, without incident. Statistically, you're more likely to get struck by lightning, or eaten by a shark than getting blown up by a bomb in the woods.

Cauldrons of Courage is high on my list. I may hit it this week.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

May 14, 2003

As I was reading this - I just realized it's the park with Cauldron's is hidden.

There's a great deal of ATV traffic in that park as well - so I wouldn't be surprised if some kids were involved.

Of course - maybe it's just someone who 'Chose poorly....."

There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. - Ken Olsen, President, Digital Equipment, 1977

6.5k · May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:
_Nature Conservancy article_

Here is a link to one of the article in the series. The three article series starts on May fourth. I've always held the Nature Conservancy in high regard, so it will make interesting reading.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9888-2003May3.html

http://www.moondog3.com http://www.moondog3.com

That link just takes me to some page asking for DOB, Zip, etc. Is that right??

May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:
"We took a water cannon and shot the power supply off. Then we put a charge around the pipe bomb and detonated in on the mountain."

not such a "delicate" trigger after all, I guess....

On the contrary. I had the great pleasure of watching a documentary about bomb squads and their tools of the trade. (This was, I believe, quite a while ago.) One of the things they demonstrated was an insanely powerful type of bomb-disarming water cannon. They aim it at the electronics and fire, and the water is propelled at such speed with such force that it completely obliterates the electronic mechanism faster than it can detonate the charge (since the initiator is not quite instantaneous).

It's quite logical that they would've used one of these water cannon devices to destroy the electronics (quite certainly separating them from the charge) in order to safely disarm the bomb in order to make it safe to dispose of the charge. This is *quite* a different animal from any water cannon you'd likely think of; it's far closer to a high-power armor-piecing shell than a squirt gun or a fire hose.

Anyway, they might not have used what I think they did, but if they used the cool super-water-cannon device, it would explain the seeming discrepancy.

[[[ ClayJar Networks ]]]

Home of Watcher downloads, Official Geocaching Chat, and the Geocache Rating System

2.7k · May 14, 2003

Something sounds a little fishy with this one.

1. ""This hiker apparently had seen something up there a couple of months ago, but it was covered with snow at the time," he said."

??? How did he see it thru the snow ??? Now that is a force we could use to find those well hidden caches!

2. "set up underneath a tree with a wire that went to a mercury switch and a battery" And how would he know it was undneath a tree if he wasn't on his knees looking for something.

3. "We took a water cannon and shot the power supply off." Wouldn't you think the battery would of been dead or weak from exposure to moisture and cold, thus making the power supply

rather weak or non existent.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

1.2k · May 14, 2003

Yup, ClayJar has it pretty darn close to exactly right. The water cannon is called a "disrupter" because it is used to "disrupt" the circuit the bomb makes in order to detonate. The earlier posts about mercury switches are very accurate as well. Mercury switches are old technology, high school teen stuff, buy em at Radio Shack all day long. If they'd used an e-cell timing device or a collapsing circuit of some type, I'd be more impressed with the device. Nailing the mercury switch to the tree does seem to move it into a deliberate attempt to set a booby trap (the bottle being used as a lure, pick up the bottle, the line moves the mercury switch, detonating the charge on the ground nearby).

But, as we've learned over the years, there is no darn telling what they were doing till we catch em and ask em. It could be as simple as a college prank where they are showing off to each other who could come up with the best one, to an angry ex-boyfriend/husband who knows his competition hikes nearby and collects old bottles.... LOL. Who knows?

As for detonating the explosive charge after disrupting the detonator, ahem, anyone here want to chance carrying that thing back to town just to take it to a remote spot and blow it up anyway????? Unless you're going to cart the portable x-ray unit into the woods to check the explosive for a secondary detonation circuit (i. e. boobytrap) the only way to check it is to cut into it. If there is no threat to life, and especially if there is not a threat to life or property, WE BLOW IT IN PLACE!! Just seems like the better part of valor...lol.

If it was a pipe bomb as described, believe it or not that is one of the most dangerous types of improvised explosive devices a bomb tech deals with. We've lost more techs, killed or injured, to those than any other type. We do not play when it comes to pipe bombs.

Anyway, it looks like this one was taken care of quite professionaly, and it wasn't an ammo can or tupperware container with a GeoCaching.com sticker on the side... so my work here is done.... Hi Oh Silver, AWAY!!

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

1.2k · May 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tahosa:
Something sounds a little fishy with this one.

3. "We took a water cannon and shot the power supply off." Wouldn't you think the battery would of been dead or weak from exposure to moisture and cold, thus making the power supply

rather weak or non existent.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

Honest, really, I'm not meaning this as a slam, or a flame, or any type of disrespect whatsoever, but ARE YOU NUTS???? LOL.

No, no, no, no, no, no...... it takes so little electric charge to set off a blasting cap you'd be AMAZED! I've used the flat battery out of an old film container from an instant camera to set off a blast using a 300 foot long blasting line! That was after it was used in the camera till the film ran out and then set in my blasting kit for 6 or 8 months after that. I decided I'd try it to see if it would work and BOOM! A 5 gallon can of ether we had recovered from a meth lab (oh, and then wrapped in det cord) went high order!

So no, you don't take the chance that a small remaining charge would take you off at the knees. Plus, how do I know it's been out there that long? I take the guys word after the squirrly story he's telling? I don't thinks so!

Remember the line in Apolcolypse Now? "Never get off the boat"...... ours is "Never assume it is safe till it's been detonated". And even then wait a few minutes before you walk up on it...lol.

Just thought I'd share that with ya!

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

2.7k · May 14, 2003

Breaktrack - Well I would of assumed the battery would not have enough power, but assumptions can put you in a bag if there is enough left to put in a bag.

From my past experiences, I would of just set a charge and blown it in place and then had a sale on kindling wood.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

1.7k · May 14, 2003

I checked this thread because I heard on our local news that a pipe bomb was discovered off a road leading to a ghost town/summer cabin town in Arizona. As I remember, the road is a maintained dirt road. Odd coincidence about two pipe bombs in out of the way areas in one day. Or maybe I'm just naive and this happens all too often.

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

May 14, 2003

You don't recall the guy who was hiding bombs in rural mailboxes across the country some time back?

Some people are just sickos.

George

May 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:
You don't recall the guy who was hiding bombs in rural mailboxes across the country some time back?

Some people are just sickos.

George

Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, there will eventually be one in this hobby/sport, and they will try to make some peoples fears come true.

Wyatt W.

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

May 15, 2003

...... it takes so little electric charge to set off a blasting cap you'd be AMAZED!

You're exactly right! An instructor we had in a Mine Safety Class assured us that static electricity in the air, cell phones & CB Radios could easily set one off. I've never personally witnessed it but if I had I probably wouldn't be around to post about it.

We never take too many chances when blasting.

May 15, 2003

I don't know too much about the weather over there, but if it's anything like it is here in Michigan, it's a miracle that thing survived for so long without going off on it's own... Between any ice storms, hail, hard rain, and wind storms.... after picking up branches in my yard blown off by a recent wind storm, I'm amazed nothing hit it accidentally.....

...IF it had truly been out there all winter...

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

May 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:
_Nature Conservancy article_

Here is a link to one of the article in the series. The three article series starts on May fourth. I've always held the Nature Conservancy in high regard, so it will make interesting reading.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9888-2003May3.html

A fascinating article, and an upsetting one. I donated to the Nature Conservancy earlier this year. I also note that a search on the Washington Post web site for "nature conservancy" brings up a new story indicating they're facing possible congressional investigation.

And for those who are curious, the Washington Post requires you to register, but it's probably worth the time.

May 16, 2003

He came Back Months Later

I've read several posts that said this sounds suspicious. Not necesarily. In my weird NJ travels I've seen lotsa weird stuff as I was driving and made mental notes to come back later when I had the chance to investigate better. If I saw something unusual (define that as you will) in the woods and it was unaccessable due to snow, I'd likely come back later if I remember and if I remebered where it was. Who am i kidding? I'd mark the location as a waypoint silly...

But then that's me and I'm certifiable according to some folks. Heck I've been called the Matthew of my office (survivor reference) lately.

In all seriousness this does sound really creepy. I wish I could better picture this thing in my head but if I were in those woods, knowing geocaches have been placed there, my first thought upon seeing a container would be a geocache. I wonder if I would'd had the common sense not to touch? <>shudder<>

May 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by welch:

quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:
_Nature Conservancy article_

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9888-2003May3.html

That link just takes me to some page asking for DOB, Zip, etc. Is that right??

Yep, sadly. The Post asks for your info so they can tailor their ads to you. You're not obligated to be truthful though - I like to alternate between being an 89-year-old woman in Afghanistan and a 22-year-old Belizean guy Just don't make yourself younger than 18ish-21ish, or they won't let you read.

6.5k · May 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sugar Kane:
Yep, sadly. The Post asks for your info so they can tailor their ads to you.

I dont know if I noticed an adds on their website or not.

- I like to alternate between being an 89-year-old woman in Afghanistan and a 22-year-old Belizean guy Just don't make yourself younger than 18ish-21ish, or they won't let you read.
I think I may have accidently selected an 103 year old male, living in some country starting with the letter 'A', who also happened to have the zip for somewhere in CA

May 17, 2003

I think if this had been a real hiker then the storyline would have read differently, something like:

Hiker's body was found in park after a loud explosion was heard.

Kinda of reminds you about that volunteer fireman who wanted to be a hero and "discovered" several fires and warned the people living there.

Pipe Bomb Discovered by Hiker

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