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A Public Cache Turns MOC

Squad51

By Squad51
in General geocaching topics

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Squad51

Squad51

Posted
Posted

What's your opinion on this situation: a new cache appeared in our area a month ago. We set out to find it, but due to various factors, didn't (weather, batteries). We ran into the cache owner on a different cache hunt and told him of our misfortune on his cache. We told him we'd be going back to complete it soon! the other day, we hiked for 3.5 hours in the sun, and FINALLY made it to the cache. We enjoyed the view, signed the log and went home....

 

We then got online to log our find, one we worked so hard for... only to find that in the past day, the cache had been changed from a public cache to MEMBERS ONLY. What do you think about people changing public caches to members only caches, even though there have been NO problems with the cache (ie plundering, etc)? Unfortunately, due to being laid off, we just can't AFFORD to become charter members right now. We DID enjoy the hike, that's the big part, but we also feel slightly cheated that we can't even log this cache as a find. Oh well, live and learn!

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Web-ling

+Web-ling

Posted
Posted

Some options:

 

  • Email the owner, and see if they will work with you to get it logged. Maybe they'll drop the MO status temporarily.
  • Wait a while. Maybe the MO status will be dropped, and you'll be able to log it.
  • Wait until your financial situation improves, join, then log it.

 

I think it's a bad idea to change existing caches into MO caches without a very good reason, but I also think that it's their cache, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

25021_1200.gif

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gnbrotz

+gnbrotz

Posted
Posted

Team Squad51: Would you consider opening a PayPal account (it's free)? I can't afford to send $30, but will gladly send $3. I bet there are at least nine other cachers that would do the same. That would get you a full year.

 

Everyone else: How about it? Who will match my pledge?

 

7996_300.jpg

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

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Squad51

Squad51

Posted
  • Author
Posted

gnbrotz- we sincerely appreciate your offer but that is NOT necessary! Thanks so much though, that's the nicest thing anyone has thought of doing for us! icon_biggrin.gif

 

We didn't post this to complain about being po' folks, but to seek others opinions on a public cache turning into a members only cache for no given reason? We are fine with members only caches... we just wore ourselves out on this cache and wish we could have logged it, since it WAS a public cache when we got the coords for it. So we were really just wondering if we were being silly and childish for feeling cheated... that's all! But again, thanks for the offer! Really brightened our day/night!

 

Team Squad51

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Squad51

Squad51

Posted
  • Author
Posted

gnbrotz- we sincerely appreciate your offer but that is NOT necessary! Thanks so much though, that's the nicest thing anyone has thought of doing for us! icon_biggrin.gif

 

We didn't post this to complain about being po' folks, but to seek others opinions on a public cache turning into a members only cache for no given reason? We are fine with members only caches... we just wore ourselves out on this cache and wish we could have logged it, since it WAS a public cache when we got the coords for it. So we were really just wondering if we were being silly and childish for feeling cheated... that's all! But again, thanks for the offer! Really brightened our day/night!

 

Team Squad51

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gnbrotz

+gnbrotz

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team Squad51:

that is NOT necessary!

 

We didn't post this to complain about being po' folks

 

Team Squad51

 

I know it's not necessary, but I wanted to do it, that's why I did. As far as complaining about being po', I consider myself a "po' folk" too, that's why I'm offering $3.00 instead of $30. I'd like to be able to gift full memberships, but right now, it's just not feasible. This would allow me to fulfill my wish in a way that I can afford. I'd be willing to bet that if you were on the other side of your own situation, you'd do the same thing (Cachers are funny that way).

 

Please reconsider the PayPal account.

 

7996_300.jpg

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

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gnbrotz

+gnbrotz

Posted
Posted

I can see how frustrating this would be. There is one I'm planning to do that has been switched to MOC as well. It won't affect me, but my frequent caching companion 'Ghosthunter' is not a Charter Member, so even though he will have access to the cache info (through me) and will probably find it (WITH me), he won't be able to log his find on the cache page.

 

I'll probably just mention he was there with me when I log my find.

 

I'd be very surprised if the cache owner was unwilling to work this out with you.

 

7996_300.jpg

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling: ... but I also think that it's their cache, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

Someone always makes a comment like this when there is a discussion on whether or not a cache is appropriate. Of course people

can do whathever they want with their cache (provided they don't offend Jeremy). That is not what these types of discussions are for. I think these discussions assist us in learning what other cachers do and do not find appropriate. If we keep an open mind and try to learn something from the opinions of others then geocaching will get better.

 

On this particular subject, in my opinion I do not think changing an existing cache to MOC is a very nice thing to do unless there is a very good reason. At the very least a notice could be posted on the cache description a few weeks before becoming MOC so that someone won't have the problem that the starter of this thread had.

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Geo Quest

Geo Quest

Posted
Posted

My opinion is that a cache owner does not need a "good reason" to make his/her cache members only. That's one of the benefits of being a member. The first thing I did when I paid my money was change my existing caches to members only caches. I wanted the option to audit the cache page. I think it's a very cool feature. If someone who was not a member wanted to log one of my caches or hunt it I would drop the MO status long enough for them to log it. The only reason I want the MO status is for the audit feature, not to keep the info from anybody.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

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BassoonPilot

BassoonPilot

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team Squad51:

 

We then got online to log our find, one we worked so hard for... only to find that in the past day, the cache had been changed from a public cache to MEMBERS ONLY. What do you think about people changing public caches to members only caches, even though there have been NO problems with the cache (ie plundering, etc)?

 

I noticed one local cache here went from public to MOC to public again within the period of a few days. Like your example, I wonder what the motivation was? I think the suggestion to ask the cache owner to create a "public" window for you to log your find is a good one.

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BassoonPilot

BassoonPilot

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Quest:

... The first thing I did when I paid my money was change my existing caches to members only caches. ... The only reason I want the MO status is for the audit feature, not to keep the info from anybody.

 

It's interesting that your two old caches are MOCs but your most recent one isn't. Why aren't you interested in auditing that one?

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st_richardson

+st_richardson

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team Squad51:

...We ran into the cache owner on a different cache hunt and told him of our misfortune on his cache. We told him we'd be going back to complete it soon! the other day, we hiked for 3.5 hours in the sun, and FINALLY made it to the cache. We enjoyed the view, signed the log and went home....

 

 

I'd email the cache owner reminding him of your meeting and explain your situation to him. I believe they would understand. If not, remember it's just a game and count it as a personal find.

 

While I don't see any need to change any of my caches to MOC, I would want to post that the change was pending in advance. Same with archiving when possible.

 

I am planning to post my next cache as a members only for the first few weeks. (I plan to start it with a few premium items.) I then will switch it to a regular cache.

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

If we keep an open mind and try to learn something from the opinions of others then geocaching will get better.

 

Or not. Or perhaps it would just become rule-laden.

 

Haven't you noticed, that notwithstanding hundreds of threads on this forum dealing with what people want and do not want to see in a cache, the rules never change. Geocaching began with a minimum number of rules and still has a minimum number of rules. That's the way I like it. What has developed is "geocaching etiquette", which is purely voluntary behaviour, based on what geocachers perceive others to find as appropriate behavior. This etiquette will change over time and will be developed according the wishes and opinions of geocachers, particularly those who contribute to this forum.

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BassoonPilot

BassoonPilot

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

 

Haven't you noticed, that notwithstanding hundreds of threads on this forum dealing with what people want and do not want to see in a cache, the rules never change. Geocaching began with a minimum number of rules and still has a minimum number of rules.

 

Not withstanding all the (sometimes good, sometimes amusing, often ridiculous) rules cache owners create and attach to their cache pages.

 

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

That's the way I like it. What has developed is "geocaching etiquette", which is purely voluntary behaviour, based on what geocachers perceive others to find as appropriate behavior. This etiquette will change over time ...

 

Regardless of how one terms them, any standards of appropriate behavior are de facto "rules."

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kablooey

kablooey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pote:

So, what does entering the log on-line really do for you? My view is that it is a display for others to see how many you found, maybe a attaboy for the hider and some encouragment for future finders. Not much else.

 

Y'know, thanks for this sentiment! I think maybe I'll go find a cache now. I've been kind of disillusioned for a while because of the whole "MOC & who owns the data" things, but really, it shouldn't really matter that much to anybody else how many finds I have or whether I decide to keep track of my finds only on my personal web site.

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

Regardless of how one terms them, any standards of appropriate behavior are de facto "rules."

 

Don't worry about it, in this game, you are not required to have any standards. If you choose not to, that's your choice. The standards I happen to follow are imposed on me by myself, based on much of what I hear from other people on this forum. That's just the way I like to play.

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Seth!

+Seth!

Posted
Posted

I'll just toss my two cents in by saying "ditto to what web-ling said."

 

I wouldn't emphasize the 'it's their cache, do what they want' bit though. There is a lot said for being thoughtful.

 

Send a nice note to the geocache owner and please post what happens so that we will know!

 

- Seth!

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Web-ling

+Web-ling

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by Web-ling:

 

... but I also think that it's their cache, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

Someone always makes a comment like this when there is a discussion on whether or not a cache is appropriate. Of course people

_can_ do whathever they want with their cache (provided they don't offend Jeremy). That is not what these types of discussions are for. I think these discussions assist us in learning what other cachers do and do not find appropriate. If we keep an open mind and try to learn something from the opinions of others then geocaching will get better.

 

On this particular subject, in my opinion I do not think changing an existing cache to MOC is a very nice thing to do unless there is a very good reason. At the very least a notice could be posted on the cache description a few weeks before becoming MOC so that someone won't have the problem that the starter of this thread had.

 

My actual statement was:

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

I think it's a bad idea to change existing caches into MO caches without a very good reason, but I also think that it's their cache, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

My point was, I think it's a bad idea. However, if someone wants to do something that kinda stinks, they have every right to. I basically agreed with you. It's inappropriate. I advocate NOT changing public caches to MO caches. I don't particularly like MOCs in the first place. However, I also defend the right of owners to control their caches. There could very easily be more going on than the owner is telling, and they may have a very good reason for not telling.

 

quote:
That is not what these types of discussions are for. I think these discussions assist us in learning what other cachers do and do not find appropriate.

My point is very relevent to this discussion. Although I agree it is generally NOT a good thing to change public caches to MOCs, I think it would also not be appropriate to FORBID it or to disable the function for existing caches.

 

As you said, keep an open mind and try to learn something from the opinions of others. I may strongly disagree with you, but I will always defend your right to express your views.

 

Happy Caching! icon_smile.gif

 

25021_1200.gif

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Web-ling

+Web-ling

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by Web-ling:

 

... but I also think that it's their cache, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

Someone always makes a comment like this when there is a discussion on whether or not a cache is appropriate. Of course people

_can_ do whathever they want with their cache (provided they don't offend Jeremy). That is not what these types of discussions are for. I think these discussions assist us in learning what other cachers do and do not find appropriate. If we keep an open mind and try to learn something from the opinions of others then geocaching will get better.

 

On this particular subject, in my opinion I do not think changing an existing cache to MOC is a very nice thing to do unless there is a very good reason. At the very least a notice could be posted on the cache description a few weeks before becoming MOC so that someone won't have the problem that the starter of this thread had.

 

My actual statement was:

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

I think it's a bad idea to change existing caches into MO caches without a very good reason, but I also think that it's their cache, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

My point was, I think it's a bad idea. However, if someone wants to do something that kinda stinks, they have every right to. I basically agreed with you. It's inappropriate. I advocate NOT changing public caches to MO caches. I don't particularly like MOCs in the first place. However, I also defend the right of owners to control their caches. There could very easily be more going on than the owner is telling, and they may have a very good reason for not telling.

 

quote:
That is not what these types of discussions are for. I think these discussions assist us in learning what other cachers do and do not find appropriate.

My point is very relevent to this discussion. Although I agree it is generally NOT a good thing to change public caches to MOCs, I think it would also not be appropriate to FORBID it or to disable the function for existing caches.

 

As you said, keep an open mind and try to learn something from the opinions of others. I may strongly disagree with you, but I will always defend your right to express your views.

 

Happy Caching! icon_smile.gif

 

25021_1200.gif

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RAD Dad

+RAD Dad

Posted
Posted

First, getting back up to the earlier suggestion, I'd love to help out with getting someone in as a charter member, I have paypal and $3 to help out with. Don't be ashamed to accept graciously an offer of good will. People know that this recession has hit some harder than others, and we don't want economics to get in the way of someone who is dillegent about the sport from becoming a Charter Member.

 

Now, for something else...

seneca said: "Don't worry about it, in this game, you are not required to have any standards. If you choose not to, that's your choice. The standards I happen to follow are imposed on me by myself, based on much of what I hear from other people on this forum. That's just the way I like to play."

 

There are apparently way too many who feel this way in my area, and in other areas as well. Judging by the number of travel bugs that get taken and never logged, the number of caches that have things taken (clearly by a cacher, as the whole thing isn't trashed or everything stolen) yet no log made of a visit in the book or online. People who think they can just go out and do whatever they feel with no regards to the placer of the cache are plain wrong. THERE ARE RULES. If you take something, you are to leave something. You are to log your visit in the log book. If you take a travel bug you aren't to keep it, you are to log it online, then place it in another cache, and log that as well.

 

I even placed cards that explain exactly what to do in my cache, in the front of the log book an explanation of what is expected as well. On my travel bug, attached directions on how to log it online and what its goal were. Still my most recent cache I placed clearly has been visited by cachers who don't give a rip about the rules of the game, my feelings, or the effort I went to to place the cache and stock it with nice, new items.

 

This kind of "I can do anything I want" attitude is so self centered and immature it makes me want to scream, and already, it is making me think about making all my future caches MOC's, even though I would rather not go that route.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

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inceptor

+inceptor

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Geocaching began with a minimum number of rules and still has a minimum number of rules. That's the way I like it. What has developed is "geocaching etiquette", which is purely voluntary behaviour, based on what geocachers perceive others to find as appropriate behavior. This etiquette will change over time and will be developed according the wishes and opinions of geocachers, particularly those who contribute to this forum.

icon_eek.gif

Dear Miss Geo-Manners,

Someone I know placed a cache.........

Someone left this in my cache........

My significant other, while out caching the other day.....

 

 

Gee I can just see it now. icon_wink.gif

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

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inceptor

+inceptor

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Geocaching began with a minimum number of rules and still has a minimum number of rules. That's the way I like it. What has developed is "geocaching etiquette", which is purely voluntary behaviour, based on what geocachers perceive others to find as appropriate behavior. This etiquette will change over time and will be developed according the wishes and opinions of geocachers, particularly those who contribute to this forum.

icon_eek.gif

Dear Miss Geo-Manners,

Someone I know placed a cache.........

Someone left this in my cache........

My significant other, while out caching the other day.....

 

 

Gee I can just see it now. icon_wink.gif

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

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Geo Quest

Geo Quest

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

It's interesting that your two old caches are MOCs but your most recent one isn't. Why aren't you interested in auditing that one?

 

Ah yes! Somebody noticed my hypocrisy. Actually my latest cache belongs to my wife. She does not want it to be a members only cache. Since she never logs onto geocaching.com she doesn't care about audits or anything. All she wants to know is if people are finding it. The truth is, I might change my MOC's back to public caches now that the novelty of auditing has worn off. I just wish there was a way to audit public caches.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

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sbell111

+sbell111

Posted
Posted

We also had a local cache go from public to MOC after being out for about a week.

 

I agree that there should not be a rule to forbid this. I can easily think of hypothetical reasons for this (meant to have it MOC from the go, plunder, et al.)

 

That being said, it inconveniences some players and is rude. Unless absolutely necessary, a person should not do it.

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by inceptor:

Dear Miss Geo-Manners,

Someone I know placed a cache.........

Someone left this in my cache........

My significant other, while out caching the other day.....

 

Gee I can just see it now. icon_wink.gif

 

What a great idea! First response: Dear Miss Inceptor, you must know that it is considered dreadfully rude to address a male as "Miss" and in future please address me as "Mr. Manners". Also, geocachers do frown on the overuse of "smilies" in correspondence. Now in answer to your wonderful questions.......

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by inceptor:

Dear Miss Geo-Manners,

Someone I know placed a cache.........

Someone left this in my cache........

My significant other, while out caching the other day.....

 

Gee I can just see it now. icon_wink.gif

 

What a great idea! First response: Dear Miss Inceptor, you must know that it is considered dreadfully rude to address a male as "Miss" and in future please address me as "Mr. Manners". Also, geocachers do frown on the overuse of "smilies" in correspondence. Now in answer to your wonderful questions.......

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inceptor

+inceptor

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

 

What a great idea! First response: Dear Miss Inceptor, you must know that it is considered dreadfully rude to address a male as "Miss" and in future please address me as "Mr. Manners". Also, geocachers do frown on the overuse of "smilies" in correspondence. Now in answer to your wonderful questions.......

 

icon_eek.gif First, I had a picture of the original Miss Manners branching out. Second, it is now politically incorrect to assume someones sexuality. icon_biggrin.gif I did not realize that you wanted to do the column. Just as an aside....will you also be doing the Dear Abbey (or maybe Dear Andy) for geocaching? icon_wink.gif

 

Finally, icon_razz.gif , I happen to like the smilies! icon_cool.gif

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

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inceptor

+inceptor

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

 

What a great idea! First response: Dear Miss Inceptor, you must know that it is considered dreadfully rude to address a male as "Miss" and in future please address me as "Mr. Manners". Also, geocachers do frown on the overuse of "smilies" in correspondence. Now in answer to your wonderful questions.......

 

icon_eek.gif First, I had a picture of the original Miss Manners branching out. Second, it is now politically incorrect to assume someones sexuality. icon_biggrin.gif I did not realize that you wanted to do the column. Just as an aside....will you also be doing the Dear Abbey (or maybe Dear Andy) for geocaching? icon_wink.gif

 

Finally, icon_razz.gif , I happen to like the smilies! icon_cool.gif

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

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White Rabbit

White Rabbit

Posted
Posted

Couldn't read ALL of the posts, but I got the jist of it (what does auditing your cache allow you to do anyways?).

 

My girlfriend and I don't bring in a whole lot of money. One day we'll probably spring for the membership, but for now, we can't do it. It really upsets us that caches we've found in the past have since become MOC. We can't read the adventures that other people had, we can't go back and check what we took or left at that cache, we can't see if anyone had the same fun/adventure/problems that we had, and all that stuff kind of makes us upset. I know it's not a big deal, but it just bothers us. I think that you should still be able to view a MOC if you've already found it.

 

buneatg.gifI am the Rabbit King, I can do anything

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