tree destruction?

[tomtomorrow]

First off, I'm a newbie. I looked for the answer to this question, but couldn't find it.

 

I heard about geocaching and I thought it sounded really cool. I'm a college student with alot of coin so I figured that this would be a fairly cheap hobby (except for $100 bucks for unit and gas). I went to the website and discovered that there were several caches here in Murfreesboro, TN. I got an Etrex and was going to look for a few.

 

The first couple that I went after were on the Murfreesboro Greenway (Worm Hole-GC46F2 and Woodpecker-GC46F1). I located these easily enough, but I am concerned with the method by which they were hidden. In both cases, large holes were drilled into the tree and containers (pill bottles?) were slid into the opening. I'm not a tree surgeon, but it seems to me that this leaves the tree open to all kinds of rot and disease.

 

Is this an appropriate way to hide?

 

[This message was edited by tomtomorrow on April 19, 2002 at 02:47 PM.]

[Tahosa and Sons]

If it were me I would EMail Jeremy and the owners of the cache and if necessarry tell the authorities. It sounds like these jerks need a fine or a day in the calabose.

Caches like this give us a bad name.

 

The "Bushwhacker"

>>--->

[Mike Chmi]

Hey Tomtomorrow,

 

THis definately is not normal of geocaches and as bushwacker stated those caches should be archived. Geocaching should be as leave no trace as possible, no digging, drilling, chopping, painting, etc. I'd say that 99% of them follow those rules, but every now and then someone does something ignorant.

 

college student = a lot of coin?

I only wish

[Mike Chmi]

Hey Tomtomorrow,

 

THis definately is not normal of geocaches and as bushwacker stated those caches should be archived. Geocaching should be as leave no trace as possible, no digging, drilling, chopping, painting, etc. I'd say that 99% of them follow those rules, but every now and then someone does something ignorant.

 

college student = a lot of coin?

I only wish

[Buckaroo Banzai]

In the Woodpecker (GC46F1) Cache's description:

 

quote:

---

I got a new tool and tried it out on this one first. Think like the name sake of this cache

---

 

and the below log entry for the cache:

 

quote:

---

This was Cool your new sweetee should not let you out of the house with power tools HeeeeHeeHe THANKS JOE

---

 

and

 

quote:

---

Nice spot! I guess you got some use out of your new tool...that would have taken me weeks with a pocket knife. Anyway, I didn't have a pen so I couldn't log in (I'll do that later today) but I left a miniature glow stick

---

 

None who log it as a find seem to mind that fact that the Tree needed to have a hole bored into it for in order to have the cache placed. In fact thought that it was cool and a great cache.

 

During the review process for a cache, is how the cache is placed and its impact on the surrounding area evaluated?

 

If it's not one thing, then it's another...

[Buckaroo Banzai]

In the Woodpecker (GC46F1) Cache's description:

 

quote:

---

I got a new tool and tried it out on this one first. Think like the name sake of this cache

---

 

and the below log entry for the cache:

 

quote:

---

This was Cool your new sweetee should not let you out of the house with power tools HeeeeHeeHe THANKS JOE

---

 

and

 

quote:

---

Nice spot! I guess you got some use out of your new tool...that would have taken me weeks with a pocket knife. Anyway, I didn't have a pen so I couldn't log in (I'll do that later today) but I left a miniature glow stick

---

 

None who log it as a find seem to mind that fact that the Tree needed to have a hole bored into it for in order to have the cache placed. In fact thought that it was cool and a great cache.

 

During the review process for a cache, is how the cache is placed and its impact on the surrounding area evaluated?

 

If it's not one thing, then it's another...

[+Hawk-eye]

First of all is this a live tree ... there are plenty of dead fall and the like to do something like is described ... I don't see a problem with that. There are also plenty of decayed spur knots that can be utilized for something similar ... If on the other hand a living tree has been damaged ... it would be an issue.

 

[Buckaroo Banzai]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

....There are also plenty of decayed spur knots that can be utilized for something similar ...

---

 

I have emailed the cache owner to let him know about this discussion and to address the concerns.

 

If it's not one thing, then it's another...

 

[This message was edited by Buckaroo Banzai on April 19, 2002 at 12:24 PM.]

[tomtomorrow]

These are live, healthy trees. The holes were drilled into undiseased wood.

 

Mikechim-I'm broke and I can't type. Should be 'without alot of coin'. OOPS

[+Hawk-eye]

Does anyone know the cache owner? A couple of things ... if it's private property ... well that's his option ... but I'd suggest a few things to him to prevent the opening from becoming a spot of infestation or disease. If it's not and on public or private (other than his own) I'd talk to him about some other option ... like downfall, dead trees or the like ... There are some very creative ways to make fake limbs and knots on deadfall or like I mentioned earlier using decayed spur knots and the like.

 

I would approach him in a positive helpful manner ... I really doubt there was a wilful disregard in his method. I sure would not come down on him like a ton of bricks

 

[+Hawk-eye]

Does anyone know the cache owner? A couple of things ... if it's private property ... well that's his option ... but I'd suggest a few things to him to prevent the opening from becoming a spot of infestation or disease. If it's not and on public or private (other than his own) I'd talk to him about some other option ... like downfall, dead trees or the like ... There are some very creative ways to make fake limbs and knots on deadfall or like I mentioned earlier using decayed spur knots and the like.

 

I would approach him in a positive helpful manner ... I really doubt there was a wilful disregard in his method. I sure would not come down on him like a ton of bricks

 

[tomtomorrow]

These particular caches are not on private property. They are on the Murfreesboro/Stones River Greenway, not more than a few steps off trail. The Greenway is public land managed by the City of Murfreesboro.

 

http://www.ci.murfreesboro.tn.us/svc-parks_rec-parks.htm

[+BruceS]

Tom, welcome to geocaching. You are in a great area to find caches. I visited your area over the last weekend and found several caches including the two you mentioned. These are the only 2 in your area that I saw that were hidden like this (and of the over 600 caches I have found they are the only two that I have seen like this). I found these 2 in the dark so I did not really notice how the holes were made.

 

Bruce

[Mike Chmi]

I do have to agree with Hawk-eye that it probably wasn't purposeful damaging, like I stated before it was ignorance, I think a lot of people (unfathomable as it is to me) don't understand the damage caused when they do something like that.

 

TomTomorrow ok that makes a lot more sense, I was thinking I was doing something wrong.

[+briansnat]

Drilling into a live tree to place a cache? This is unacceptable. The guy who did it is obviously a freakin' moron. Our sport is already drawing fire from some environmentalists. Geez, if they got wind of something like this, forget it! People have to use common sense when placing a cache for FK's sake! You'd think someone who could figure out how to operate a GPSr would have some brains.

[+Web-ling]

Just plain stupid.

 

[+inceptor]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Drilling into a live tree to place a cache? This is unacceptable. The guy who did it is obviously a freakin' moron. Our sport is already drawing fire from some environmentalists. Geez, if they got wind of something like this, forget it! People have to use common sense when placing a cache for FK's sake! You'd think someone who could figure out how to operate a GPSr would have some brains.

---

 

Common sense......about the same as military intelligence. Both are misnomers. Common sense is about as uncommon as they come.

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

[+briansnat]

The owner turned the two caches in question to "members only" caches. Guess he didn't want too many "you are a moron for doing this" messages in his logs.

[+Hawk-eye]

Personally I can't say I'd blame someone for going on the defensive ... name calling and the like is really not the tactic to use. I doubt this would have happened if he'd been approached from the perspective of helping instead of a full frontal attack.

 

[Jeremy]

If you see any more like this, inform me immediately. I can't believe this

 

I agree with Hawk-Eye though. Use some tact.

 

This has been archived.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[Jeremy]

If you see any more like this, inform me immediately. I can't believe this

 

I agree with Hawk-Eye though. Use some tact.

 

This has been archived.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+Feros Family]

I have been to plenty of caches that someone has drilled screws, hammered a nail or wrapped a rope around the tree and no-one has said squat about that.

I was at both of them caches in "question" yesterday. I thought he did a mighty fine job!

 

Dang tree huggers!!! Worm Hole took me a bit do to the fact I am not a tree hugger!!!

Geez what's next? We can't leave tupperware containers due to the fact we are polluting? Gimmi' a @*&$@#!^% brake!

[+BrownMule & Jackrabbit]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Feros Family:

I have been to plenty of caches that someone has drilled screws, hammered a nail or wrapped a rope around the tree and no-one has said squat about that.

I was at both of them caches in "question" yesterday. I thought he did a mighty fine job!

 

Dang tree huggers!!! Worm Hole took me a bit do to the fact I am not a tree hugger!!!

Geez what's next? We can't leave tupperware containers due to the fact we are polluting? Gimmi' a @*&$@#!^% brake!

---

 

[+The GeoGadgets Team]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BruceS:

Tom, welcome to geocaching. ...(and of the over 600 caches I have found they are the only two that I have seen like this). I found these 2 in the dark so I did not really notice how the holes were made.

 

Bruce

---

 

Wow! 611 caches! Bruce, I looked at your profile and I don't know how you do it. Are you inhuman? Three or four days in a row with 19 to 20 caches per day? I'm living in the wrong part of the country and I want the phone number to the government agency that installed your bionic parts!

 

I didn't know that there was anyone with this many caches found. Do you have a life outside of caching?

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

[+The GeoGadgets Team]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Feros Family:

I was at both of them caches in "question" yesterday. I thought he did a mighty fine job!

---

 

Well, if all caches were like "them", a lot of trees would get destroyed or damaged. It is people like this that show a complete disregard for the actual Nature - while saying that they are bringing people out to Nature - that are giving our sport/hobby a black eye to folks like Park Rangers, Earth-Firsters (of which I am strongly against, thanks for asking) and those morons in ELF.

 

quote:

---

Dang tree huggers!!! Worm Hole took me a bit do to the fact I am not a tree hugger!!!

---

Just because the difficulty was tough for you doesn't mean that it is a good/cool/acceptable cache. I am glad that Jeremy archived these if only to discourage others from repeating a foolish way to hide a cache.

 

quote:

---

Geez what's next? We can't leave tupperware containers due to the fact we are polluting? Gimmi' a @*&$@#!^% brake!

---

 

What's next is a ban in all public use areas of the destructive act of Geocaching if this kind of behavior is aloud to propagate. It would be a bit tougher if the cache placer had put his brain to placing a well-camoflaged container that emulated the outside of the tree instead of claiming his right of manhood to use his new "tool" indiscriminately.

 

Or is he to testosterone-filled to get a clue?

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

[CopperNail]

I have refrained from commenting on this message board, I wanted to see were it is going. It makes me sad to see that Jeremy has played the heavy handed dictator and told me that “this is a no no.” Come on, we aren’t kids here.

Let me see if I can put this into perspective. Here is Jeremy, sitting at his desk made of wood, in his house at least framed with wood. He logs on the Internet and starts transmitting data over wires that are suspended from wooden poles. Maybe he even has a pipe in his mouth made of wood. Now all I did was make a hole in a tree that is big enough to place a goecache. This cache was a pill bottle that is one inch in diameter. I think it is pathetic that a bunch of people called me ignorant, testosterone-filled, foolish, Unacceptable!, stupid, freakin' moron, jerk, etc…… I think it is a shame that a person can’t place a cache in a new way. I did get a good idea from one the comments on creating fake limbs. I will use that idea in another cache. Why didn’t anyone contact me before they slammed me like this? If you had you might reliaze that worm hole is named that way because it is in a worm hole in a hollow tree. Woodpecker was put into a knot that I drilled out. Besides, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I cut the whole tree down and put the cache in the stump. You see, we were put on this earth to rule it, not be ruled by nature. Good thing some of you liberal tree lovers weren’t around in the pioneer days. America would not be here. I think it is just silly P.C. stuff.

I doubt that one of the cowards that criticized me would call me all these names to my face. I am sorry, I just expected more from my fellow cachers.

 

Lookingalone

[+Feros Family]

I feel that user tomtomorrow made it seem much worse than they is, (now archived) was. I truely feel that maybe he just ain't cut out to be a geocacher. Out of the people that went to this cache, these was the first 2 he ever went to and he complained.

Maybe a vote to the users that went to the cache site(s) and saw first hand how/where it was done should be in order here?

I feel Jeremy reacted with out knowing, seeing and finding out all the facts! I protest these being archived due soley on tomtomorrow's opinion.

Like I said in a reply. I have seen plenty of screws, nails and ropes in and on trees. NO ONE has said anythang about that. There is no differance!

 

TO The GeoGadgets Team:

 

Have you been there? Have you seen the way these were done? You are basing your "bashing" of me on one mans opinion with out going there to see for your self.

 

 

See there you go again... did/was I bashing you? I don't think so. If you was to go to the caches in question you would see and understand.

 

really Geocacher's go, find these caches look for yourself. You would not be protesting these caches.

[+Feros Family]

I feel that user tomtomorrow made it seem much worse than they is, (now archived) was. I truely feel that maybe he just ain't cut out to be a geocacher. Out of the people that went to this cache, these was the first 2 he ever went to and he complained.

Maybe a vote to the users that went to the cache site(s) and saw first hand how/where it was done should be in order here?

I feel Jeremy reacted with out knowing, seeing and finding out all the facts! I protest these being archived due soley on tomtomorrow's opinion.

Like I said in a reply. I have seen plenty of screws, nails and ropes in and on trees. NO ONE has said anythang about that. There is no differance!

 

TO The GeoGadgets Team:

 

Have you been there? Have you seen the way these were done? You are basing your "bashing" of me on one mans opinion with out going there to see for your self.

 

 

See there you go again... did/was I bashing you? I don't think so. If you was to go to the caches in question you would see and understand.

 

really Geocacher's go, find these caches look for yourself. You would not be protesting these caches.

[jfitzpat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lookingalone:

Besides, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I cut the whole tree down and put the cache in the stump. You see, we were put on this earth to rule it, not be ruled by nature...

 

---

 

What about the rule of law? I'm sorry that people spoke as if you were an abstract person - welcome to the internet. As you noted, it is easier to talk trash on the keyboard, than face to face...

 

Still, there are two factors that you are either purposely ignoring, or are too hurt and angry to have gotten from the posts:

 

#1. This activity is illegal on most public land.

 

Check the laws. In many cities, this may be illegal for certain species of trees on your own land. If you don't like it, work for democratic change. In the mean time, try to keep activities legal with regards to the sport.

 

#2. Drilling even a modest hole into live wood often creates a real risk of death and disease for a tree.

 

Go to a nursury and ask. A tree is a surprisingly fragile living organism. If you want to keep it in perspective, look at your comments. You talk like a tough and sturdy customer. So, would you want to put a 1/4" bit in the drill and drill half the length of the bottle into your own body?

 

Would it kill you? Probably not, but if you did not treat and cover the wound, your chances of serious complications would greatly increase...

 

When you get over the insults, the factors above remain. This is not a good practice for the tree, the sport, or for earning the respect of the majority of your fellow cachers.

 

-jjf

[Sliver & Lucy]

test

 

[Sliver & Lucy]

test

 

[MajBach]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lookingalone:

 

Let me see if I can put this into perspective. Here is Jeremy, sitting at his desk made of wood, in his house at least framed with wood. He logs on the Internet and starts transmitting data over wires that are suspended from wooden poles. Maybe he even has a pipe in his mouth made of wood. Now all I did was make a hole in a tree that is big enough to place a goecache. This cache was a pill bottle that is one inch in diameter.

---

 

Arguementative analogy. You can't go out and kill a cow for dinner in some farmer's field and then claim the cop that arrested you is a hypocrite because he went home and had steak for dinner. As much as I feel you were 'attacked by tree huggers' rather than tactfully made aware of the rules and why, you have to respect the fact so long as you want to play the game on someone else's board, you have to follow their rules, regardless of merit.

Realize that the point behind these rules is not to enforce the personal beliefs of those who have them, but rather to avoid giving others who are not so geocaching friendly any fuel to add to their public fire.

 

MajBach

You can't have everything,where would you put it?

[mcb]

I would have to agree with the majority of people on this thread lookingalone's idea to drill holes in living trees on public land was most likely not a good idea, it was probably even illegal.

 

That said, I found that the longer I read this thread the more I was moving to lookingalone's side of the issue despite it being a general bad idea. The general air of supremecy and condicending attitude toward one geocacher's mistake really anoyed me. I understand everyone reaction to having holes drilled in a living tree but the childish reaction like a bunch of junior high, school girls goseping about what little sally did last week is just as wronge as drilling holes in trees, grow up a little (or a lot). Your preaching to the choire here on the forums and it is not going to save any trees. Try a little friendly one-on-one advice next time before you belittle someone on a public forum.

 

mcb

 

GPS-Yote

[+briansnat]

Judging from the replies from Lookingalone and the Feros Family and some others, they still don't realize there was anything wrong drilling holes in live trees to place a cache. You can't reason with ignorant people. Hey, I'm no "tree hugger" (far from it, I'm pro logger and favor drilling for oil in ANWR, but that's a thread for a different forum). I live in a wooden house and have a wood stove and even smoke a wood pipe (cherry, very nice), but I'm not about to head to my local state park to cut down trees for my stove, or to build a shed, or carve a pipe.

 

I do enjoy Geocaching. As I mentioned in a previous post,our sport is coming under fire from environmentalists and land managers. For Geocaching to continue as a viable pastime, we'll eventually have to prove to the "authorities" that what we are doing has a limited effect on the environment. Drilling holes in live trees ain't the way to get this point across.

[+El Diablo]

First of all, let me define ignorance for you...ignorance is temporary....stupidity is forever. I think a Geocacher made a mistake, nothing more nothing less. There is no need for name calling here. Which one of you is perfect?

 

I'm like Hawk-eye, there is no need for a frontal attack here...but some helpful suggestions as what not to do.

 

Seems to me these Geocahers put some thought into their caches..maybe wrong thoughts...but still thoughts. So instead of attacking them, why don't we encourage them into taking those creative ideas and putting them to use in a positive way?

 

Just an old farts three cents worth.

 

El Diablo

[Zuckerruebensirup]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Feros Family:

Have you been there? Have you seen the way these were done? You are basing your "bashing" of me on one mans opinion with out going there to see for your self.

---

 

In a community as large as this one...especially considering the scrutiny/skeptism the sport is receiving from National authorities, I think we need to draw a clear line in the sand that Geocaching is a low impact activity. Even if this particular case wasn't "that" bad, I'm afraid it would influence others to push the envelope just a bit further (and then those in turn to do the same for the next ones)...pretty soon, we have people blatantly killing trees, and thinking it's ok.

 

Since there's no way for Jeremy to personally visit each and every questionable cache, he has to make a judgment somehow. I'd rather he err on the side of caution, and thus ease the minds of those who would like to see this sport banned.

 

I do agree, though, that the first tactic should be to e-mail the owner, and explain why a particular action should be reconsidered. I believe the response would be much more likely to be cooperative, rather than defensive.

 

-------

Join us at our first "geo-gathering" on 4/27/02!

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcb:

... The general air of supremecy and condicending attitude toward one geocacher's mistake really anoyed me. I understand everyone reaction to having holes drilled in a living tree but the childish reaction like a bunch of junior high, school girls goseping about what little sally did last week is just as wronge as drilling holes in trees, grow up a little (or a lot). ...

---

 

Yet you choose to disparage an entire group (teenage girls), apparently without a thought that it might be "condescending," or exhibit an "air of supremacy." Sort of discredits the good things you wrote.

[+Gloom]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

I think we need to draw a clear line in the sand that Geocaching is a low impact activity. Even if this particular case wasn't "that" bad, I'm afraid it would influence others to push the envelope just a bit further (and then those in turn to do the same for the next ones)...pretty soon, we have people blatantly killing trees, and thinking it's ok.

---

 

I totally agree. Lookingalone even states in his post that he would cut down a tree just to hide a cache...

quote:

---

I wouldn’t bat an eye if I cut the whole tree down and put the cache in the stump.

---

 

It's statements and actions like that that are going to be the end of geocaching.

[jfitzpat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcb:

 

[snip]

That said, I found that the longer I read this thread the more I was moving to lookingalone's side of the issue despite it being a general bad idea. The general air of supremecy and condicending attitude toward one geocacher's mistake really anoyed me.

 

[snip]

 

---

 

I don't recall anyone conceding that a mistake had been made. I read a post that basically stated 'To heck with trees, I am master of all I survey... Ya gotta a problem with my actions, step outside...'

 

More tact would be nice, but sugar coated or not, pills like this are poison for a sport looking for outdoor access.

 

I've seen this before, there is always a few folks who think that they should pick and choose rules that apply to them. To heck with rock art, and a moritorium on bolting, I'm gonna put up my lines... Bang, Hueco Tanks is greatly restricted to climbers. Of course, the folks creating the friction never see themselves as selfish, raining on the parade for others. The stupid-powers-that-be are to blame...

 

After your post, I re-read this thread. Most of the strongest insults were directed at an abstract description. I wish that less direct language had been used, but a thread that asked about this as a conceptual practice, IE not citing existing caches, would have drawn strong language as well. It seems possible that 'lookingalone' would still have felt insulted. Tact and consideration not withstanding, there is still the problem of the shoe's fit, so to speak.

 

-jjf

[+Alan2]

I've been guilty of hiding a cache in a National Recreation Area. I subsequently archived the cache after speaking with the land manager at the beheast of Jeremy. The point is I broke a rule. How many others have done the same? (Let's see how many glass houses there are?)_

 

Please respond to my poll in separate Topic.

 

Alan

[MajBach]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MajBach:

Realize that the point behind these rules is not to enforce the personal beliefs of those who have them, but rather to avoid giving others who are not so geocaching friendly any fuel to add to their public fire.

 

MajBach

---

 

This post from quite some time ago illustrates the point I was trying to make.

 

MajBach

You can't have everything,where would you put it?

[Steak N Eggs]

lookingalone and Feros Family..

 

I can agree with the two of you to some point, people are to quick to judge and persecute. The rest of my post might be like that, but people DON't have the right to play GOD. Even people who own this website. But there are rules to play by and they are there for a reason. I have not seen the cache description yet (I would have to switch to my charter membership) but what I have read here I am really suprized that the cache got approved. I guess people can make mistakes. And as for being on your side, people should have "talked" to you or about you with a little more diplomacy.

 

I am no "Tree huggin, dirt munchin Druid" by any means but lets use this analogy.... Lets use the same tool on your shoulder, place a cache in it and see how well that goes over.

 

As for legalities, would you have hidden your TOOL or stoped your actions if a Ranger/State Parks/Forest Service employee came near you?

 

Oh, and one more thing lookingalone, I am the male part of the Geogadgets Team. My wife is the one who wrote those two messages above and let me tell you, what she puts on paper (screen) she'll also say to your face. She's not one to keep thing to herself and she will speak her mind.

 

Have a nice geocaching day...

 

"My gps say's it RIGHT HERE".

http://www.geogadgets.com

12 caches in 12 hours.

[Steak N Eggs]

lookingalone and Feros Family..

 

I can agree with the two of you to some point, people are to quick to judge and persecute. The rest of my post might be like that, but people DON't have the right to play GOD. Even people who own this website. But there are rules to play by and they are there for a reason. I have not seen the cache description yet (I would have to switch to my charter membership) but what I have read here I am really suprized that the cache got approved. I guess people can make mistakes. And as for being on your side, people should have "talked" to you or about you with a little more diplomacy.

 

I am no "Tree huggin, dirt munchin Druid" by any means but lets use this analogy.... Lets use the same tool on your shoulder, place a cache in it and see how well that goes over.

 

As for legalities, would you have hidden your TOOL or stoped your actions if a Ranger/State Parks/Forest Service employee came near you?

 

Oh, and one more thing lookingalone, I am the male part of the Geogadgets Team. My wife is the one who wrote those two messages above and let me tell you, what she puts on paper (screen) she'll also say to your face. She's not one to keep thing to herself and she will speak her mind.

 

Have a nice geocaching day...

 

"My gps say's it RIGHT HERE".

http://www.geogadgets.com

12 caches in 12 hours.

[Zuckerruebensirup]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steak N Eggs:

As for legalities, would you have hidden your TOOL or stoped your actions if a Ranger/State Parks/Forest Service employee came near you?

---

 

This is a great litmus test for deciding how "right" we really feel about our actions. If we really think that what we’re doing is ok, then we shouldn’t have any qualms about being observed by an authority, since we know we’ll be able to convince them why we’re not doing anything wrong.

 

Well put!

 

-------

Join us at our first "geo-gathering" on 4/27/02!

[Zuckerruebensirup]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steak N Eggs:

As for legalities, would you have hidden your TOOL or stoped your actions if a Ranger/State Parks/Forest Service employee came near you?

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This is a great litmus test for deciding how "right" we really feel about our actions. If we really think that what we’re doing is ok, then we shouldn’t have any qualms about being observed by an authority, since we know we’ll be able to convince them why we’re not doing anything wrong.

 

Well put!

 

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Join us at our first "geo-gathering" on 4/27/02!