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posting parking coordinates to keep cachers out of trouble.


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i have a question about posting parking coordinates for caching. why aren't parking coordinates posted more often for cachers? it might make it easier to get to a cache and maybe cache owners don't want to make it easy. but if we want to keep cachers out of trouble by not having them tread over private land using an alternate route that was not used to initially hide the cache, then posting coordinates would help keep cachers on public land, off private land and less likely to be frowned on, shot at or questioned about treading over private land.

 

now look, you guys don't need to flame me, i don't want a flame war, this is a freakin' simple question and if a majority don't see a reason to post parking coordinates, then so be it, maybe treading over private land gives some cachers a thrill, maybe hiding a cache that is very difficult to get to without treading on private land is a thrill some cache hiders want to engage other cachers. i don't give a crap if someone shoots at cacher for treading private land.

 

as caching becomes more popular, and in some areas, it's very saturated, this is going to become a hot issue, cachers treading over private land hunting a treasure and basically up to no good. private land owners are going get more suspicious and we may start seeing local ordinances preventing geocaching if it becomes a problem.

 

any alternate ideas or opinions?

 

Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity

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Yes, that is a good idea to post "suggested" icon_smile.gif parking coordinates - especially in areas where there are a lot of tempting BAD places to park.

 

No, I don't like treading over land that is privately owned that I should not be in.

 

Yes, I do, at times like to try to figure out for myself where it is most appropriate to park as an extra added challenge.

 

SA / PP-ASEL-I

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If I think the cache hunters will get in trouble crossing private lands, I will post parking

coordinate's.

 

If I think there will be major trouble finding a parking location, I will post the best parking number.

 

However, I must say there are exceptions to the above statements !

 

I have a cache out where if you do not do the required research, you will see the cache on the wrong side of the fence and will have to drive about 25 miles around to get to it. But the web page says to do your research before heading out.

 

logscaler.

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Originally posted by billybob2:

<>

 

now look, you guys don't need to flame me, i don't want a flame war, this is a freakin' simple question and if a majority don't see a reason to post parking coordinates, then so be it, maybe treading over private land gives some cachers a thrill, maybe hiding a cache that is very difficult to get to without treading on private land is a thrill some cache hiders want to engage other cachers. i don't give a crap if someone shoots at cacher for treading private land.

 

<>

any alternate ideas or opinions?

 

/QUOTE]

 

I have an opinion.

 

A comment like that is flame bait.

 

I also have an idea. Do a search. Below is a whole thread on the subject.

 

Is parking part of it

 

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

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i read the thread that you posted and i'd have to say that doing research is part of the caching game. maybe i'm beginning to get swayed to the opposite view. that thread was from july of '02, before i got into the game. i guess the point could be made, cachers, if you don't do your research on how to get to cache, including parking and traversing the proper terrain, then you are the only one liable for any bodily harm or legal action that comes your way.

 

yeah, i like that, screw the cacher, if they don't know what the h*ll they are doing, then they shouldn't be doing it, right?

 

Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity

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There have been a few caches where the parking coordinates have been a great help.

The larger parks it usually isn't an issue, but there have been some where it would have been an adventure just to have found a spot to park.

I appreciate when the parking coordinates are listed.

 

"Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God and angels know of us" - Thomas Paine

compass.gif

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It's more than keeping "us" out of trouble too. A few weeks ago, I hunted for a cache that talked about the great hike to get there... just start at the trailhead. Well, I couldn't find the trailhead, but a nearby road went within a few hundred feet of the cache, so I ended up just parking on the side of the road.

 

Now, I'm sure the trailhead wasn't hidden, but it certainly wasn't clear. At least I couldn't find it with a little bit of driving around.. and since I had driven within a couple hundred feet of the cache more than once, I figured it was getting silly to do all this driving in circles.

 

In this case, parking coordinates would have given me a better caching experience, I think.

 

Jamie

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Twice now I've parked in the wrong spot for a cache. Once lead me to cross a golf course (middle of winter, no real biggie) but then I was on the wrong trail and had to scale up and down a bank which would eventually lead to erosion. Second time I ended up parking on the side of the road because I could see no possible way to the cache other than that.

 

For my future caches, I'll post coordinates. If you want to make it more of challenge, don't use them. icon_wink.gif

 

-Mixster

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I asked this same general question in

this thread in the GETTING STARTED topic.

That was on my first attempt at finding a cache. Now after getting a few finds under my belt, I think it should only be available on request, either through encryption or by emailing the cache owner.

I do think that the cache owner should be required to email a set of parking coordinates back to a request. Putting them in encryption (too easy?) does take some of the fun out of the research though.

All each of us would have to do is record where we parked when we hid the cache. Then simply email them to someone asking for them.

Don't have coordinates for the old caches, no problem.

Just grandfather those, but could still do it as cache owner if you pleased.

 

On new caches, make it a requirement to place a cache to have parking coordinates available. The coordinates would not have to be the easiest way in, just where you parked when hiding it.

Just an idea, I still feel like a NEWBIE on these boards.

 

I have flouted the wild, I have followed its lure, fearless. familar, alone; yet the wild must win,

and a day will come when I shall be overthrown. By: Robert Servic

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I was recently trying to find a cache and I could get within 5-6 hundred feet of it on a road but there was no where to park - except an expressway or industrial park with businesses.

 

Now the cache site said 'no reason to trespass, just park at the school'. I drove around this area, making u-turns after u-turns but nowhere did I spot any school.

 

I suspect the cache owner knew the area so well, he just figured everyone would know what school he was talking about and where it was.

 

I posted a no-find and asked on his site if he could post the co-ordinates of the school's parking lot but I never did get a response and I'm not going to disrespect the business owners and park in their lots!

 

"The hardest thing to find is something that's not there!"

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...and post the parking coordinates! Unless it's an urban-style cache, a cache-and-dash, or finding the starting point was meant to be part of the hunt.

 

I really just want to spend my time hiking and finding the cache, specially for those with a distance of a mile or longer. Many a frustrating minutes (close to an hour one time) have been spent driving around looking for the trailhead/parking spot. Sometimes, you can only go so far figuring this out from mapquest, specially when the cache is 2 to 3 miles along a remote area.

 

And with soaring gas prices, it just makes sense to get to your destination in the most efficient way possible.

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quote:

I do think that the cache owner should be required to email a set of parking coordinates back to a request...


 

LOL... I can see it now. Yeah just park at xx xx.xxx xx xx.xxx the cache is 40 miles to your north!

 

quote:
On new caches, make it a requirement to place a cache to have parking coordinates available. The coordinates would not have to be the easiest way in, just where you parked when hiding it.

Just an idea, I still feel like a NEWBIE on these boards.


 

If that as ever made a requirement you would never want to hunt for my caches because I would post the most difficult parking area. One cache comes to mind. (Parking A) a three hour round trip hike. (Parking ;) a two day hike.

 

Then we will also need difficulty ratings from the supplied parking coords. (Parking A) would be a 3/3. (Parking :) would be a 4+/3. Then there is tha problem when a hunter decides to use (Parking C) and complains because they needed climbing gear to get down to the cache.

 

I can think of only 1 cache we have searched for where parking coordinates we useful (or needed). So there are a few caches where they are needed but from what I have read here so far it's more of an (I dont want to do any research on the area) problem.

 

quote:
And with soaring gas prices, it just makes sense to get to your destination in the most efficient way possible.

 

So should the cache hider just come pick you up and drive you to the cache? I have just made a trip out of state (an area I had never been before) and searched for caches while there. I dont remember any parking coordinates for them and yet with a little research I was able to determine (A) The best route to the cache. (:) Where to park. And © Where to get some food when I was done.

 

So I guess my point is --- Do your homework.

 

[This message was edited by Team 5-oh! on March 03, 2003 at 04:54 AM.]

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But here in CT our back roads are so narrow it would help to have coords for parking. There is one cache around here that the hider says "I'm not posting parking coords because getting there is half the fun" well getting there took a lot of gas and time, and when I finally got where I thought I was close, I stopped a nice looking elderly gentleman and asked him "Excuse me sir, could you tell me where '****' park is?" His repsonse was "Well, I don't know know what YOU would want to be there for!" I said "I heard it was pretty and wanted to take a walk", he says "well why would you want to be there?", I said "Oh it's ok, never mind I'll come back in the spring." At which point I left because I wasn't welcome in his little dead end back roads neighborhood and I was almost out of gas. I certainly wasn't going to tell him about geocaching, he'd probably lobby to make it illegal. So no, getting there was not half the fun. Gas prices are up so high right now, I think parking coordinates for places where parking is not obvious would be very nice, please and thank you. Here in SW CT, I am paying $1.71, last time I filled up, for gas. I need all the help I can get to save my precious liguid gold.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

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Make it mandatory to post the parking coordinates for all caches?

It's been said 1000 times before, and I'll make it 1001:

If you don't like a certain type of cache (this time it's caches without parking coordinates) DON'T DO THEM!. If you aren't smart enough to read a map and look for a place to park, stick to the 1/1 caches, please. There are plenty of us who couldn't give a rats @ss what broken mctoy is in the cache, or even IF we find the cache. We enjoy the journey, and the challenge. A huge part of that is getting there. Sorry, I DON'T want every cache to tell me where to park, what trail to take, what landmark to leave the trail at, and what cluster of trees to look under for the cache. I want to figure all that out for myself, please don't try and dumb down every cache to a 1/1. I just checked the guidelines, and while the rules of this game are still evolving, I don't notice anything yet the says the cache has to be as easy as possible to get to. I don't see anywhere that the hider has to guarantee you a find at all.

It a cache doesn't have parking listed, look at the map links on the cache page and pick a few. Check the topo map for trails so you know what trailhead to park near. If this is too much work for you, perhaps you need a new hobby. If you're really a lazy slug, you could always email the hider for parking suggestions. Or do like me, just hit GOTO on your GPS and enjoy the adventure!

Trust me, some of the best caches memories I have are of times I parked in the "wrong" place. Sure, it took me an hour longer to do the cache then if I had known I could have parked right next to it, but so what? I'm sure I had more fun doing that one cache, then 5 park and grabs.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mixster:

Twice now I've parked in the wrong spot for a cache. Once lead me to cross a golf course (middle of winter, no real biggie) but then I was on the wrong trail and had to scale up and down a bank which would eventually lead to erosion. >snip<

-Mixster


 

There's an easy answer here - turn around. If you find yourself crossing private property, dangerous ground (not matching the difficulty rating), or an inappropriate site - stop.

 

Go back to your car/motorcycle/bike/helicopter/submarine and try another route. Don't just follow the arrow on the GPS.

 

In my short time playing this game, I've parked in the wrong spot several times and probably made some caches caches much harder than they needed to be. I've also gone after caches under weather conditions that have made them much harder than they needed to be - it was just poor choices on my part (but made this cache (for example) much more fun!).

 

That being said, I've provided parking coords on some of the caches I've hidden (sometimes in the description, and sometimes in the clue) - so I can certainly see the benefits at times. Just wanted to inject 2 cents about using your discretion - if you parked and the route isn't right - try try again. icon_biggrin.gif

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I do have one cache that gives the parking coordinates but that is because you have to solve the clue to find the real cache coordinates...so I used the parking as the main coords for the page...but I said that in my description! I always research before I go out and I think that is half the fun, figuring out where it is and how to get there! I love maps so it is no problem with me! Yes , I have done several caches that parking coordinates would cut the time down but it was such an adventure to find them...i think it would have taken some of the fun out!

 

I am finishing up another unique urban cache that will require you to park a half mile away(that is the closest and you cant park on the street, they will tow your car away or at least ticket you!) but it is such a beautiful walk I don't think people would mine! There are plenty of other caches that they can go and do! I know gas prices are high but I look at that as part of the game! If I want to go out and drive , I will pay the price!

 

Darkmoon icon_biggrin.gif

 

All you have to do to fly is throw yourself at the ground and miss!

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It's only on caches like the one I did, where there is no obvious park sign, it is a scout park, so I'm not even sure it's a public park, it's hidden in a maze of dead end roads about 3 feet wide, and the neighbors do NOT want strangers about, that parking coords should be given. Most other caches I've visited were no problem, but that one has me not going back to it in the near foreseeable future. That man was not too friendly! The local maps also do not show where the entrance is, or even which road leads to it. I had a local map along with my GPSr. I would not make parking coords a rule, just a kind gesture on caches such as this one. This particular cache it was more like the 7' tall guy holding the candy out of reach of the 4 year old, saying here ya go, come and get it. So please, don't take me wrong. I don't even care how long the walk is. I am not asking for any rules about parking coordinates!

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

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Well as my childhood heros GI Joe always espoused..."Knowing is half the battle." I agree do your homework. Like others have said on all the caches that I parked at the "wrong" spot I couldn't have been happier because the hike was made much more difficult and not to get sappy, but a lot more beautiful. Really though, everything shouldn't be handed to people on a silver platter, put some effort forth and if that doesn't work just get out there and start walking around because the way I look at it even if you don't find the cache you will probably find some killer hiding spots for a cache of your own.

 

"Democracy is the belief that 20,000 lemmings can't all be wrong."

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quote:
Originally posted by Planet:

It's only on caches like the one I did, where there is no obvious park sign, it is a scout park, so I'm not even sure it's a public park, it's hidden in a maze of dead end roads about 3 feet wide, and the neighbors do NOT want strangers about, that parking coords should be given. Most other caches I've visited were no problem, but that one has me not going back to it in the near foreseeable future. That man was not too friendly! The local maps also do not show where the entrance is, or even which road leads to it. I had a local map along with my GPSr. I would not make parking coords a rule, just a kind gesture on caches such as this one. This particular cache it was more like the 7' tall guy holding the candy out of reach of the 4 year old, saying here ya go, come and get it. So please, don't take me wrong. I don't even care how long the walk is. _I am not asking for any rules about parking coordinates!_

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.


Well, Planet, we just discussed the cache you mention in private, and while I do think the cache is improperly rated, and the location is a bit questionable as far as trespassing is concerned, I didn't see a problem with the cache itself. The page is very clear that part of the challenge of finding the cache is finding the hidden park. Since the hider's intent is to make you work for the cache, either you do the work, or pass on it and move on, as you did. We passed on 2 like that down in FL last week. We just couldn't find a way to get there easily from where we were. We chose to pass on them. I had also waypointed several shopping malls to keep the GF happy, and I had the same think happen with one of them. Got all around it, just never found the right way in. Did I go whining to mall management that they need to post better signs? Nope, We just went to a different, easier to find mall and we spent a ton of $$ there instead. icon_biggrin.gif

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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..traversing some of these topics is like trying to walk through a mine-field of ‘hot buttons’!… * whew * … since you can NEVER satisfy all hunters with what is placed on the cache web page… why not just find a bit of middle-ground where you add a one-liner to with something like.. “parking coordinates and local information available on request” on the web page.

 

I have yet to hid my first cache, but I plan to have a ‘canned info. Page” for each of the caches that I maintain that I can use to respond to any request… not only would that help someone who ‘want’s the coordinates… but also I plan to include pointers to anything else of ‘interest’ that is the area that they might want to take advantage of since they have made it to my cache.. (..admittedly… not that useful for the ‘locals’ that already know … but not all hunters are familiar with the areas they select to hunt in).

 

Leaving the coordinates off the cache web page would allow the die-hard purists to locate a place to park on their own and then being the cache search in earnest without them feeling it’s been made ‘too easy’.

 

(…hmmmm… two cents worth of words keep getting longer…)

 

"Remember... nothing is completly worthless... it can always be used as a bad example"!

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I don't expect them and don't provide them. I don't want my hand held. It's about the hunt. All levels of the hunt, including the parking. I can go on a hike any time I want. Pick a park, pick a trail, but figuring out which park, which trail and what is the best place to park is part of the challage that I enjoy.

 

If you want to include parking then fine, I often don't read cache pages on traditional caches anyway.

 

Adventures don't come with directions.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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quote:
Originally posted by zippes:

..traversing some of these topics is like trying to walk through a mine-field of ‘hot buttons’!… * whew * … since you can NEVER satisfy all hunters with what is placed on the cache web page… why not just find a bit of middle-ground where you add a one-liner to with something like.. “parking coordinates and local information available on request” on the web page.

 

I have yet to hid my first cache, but I plan to have a ‘canned info. Page” for each of the caches that I maintain that I can use to respond to any request… not only would that help someone who ‘want’s the coordinates… but also I plan to include pointers to anything else of ‘interest’ that is the area that they might want to take advantage of since they have made it to my cache.. (..admittedly… not that useful for the ‘locals’ that already know … but not all hunters are familiar with the areas they select to hunt in).

 

Leaving the coordinates off the cache web page would allow the die-hard purists to locate a place to park on their own and then being the cache search in earnest without them feeling it’s been made ‘too easy’.

 

(…hmmmm… two cents worth of words keep getting longer…)

 

"Remember... nothing is completly worthless... it can always be used as a bad example"!


 

Sounds like what I did when I placed this cache. Still, my intent with that cache was to bring people to a little known 25 acre wilderness preserve in the middle of an idustrial park. It wasn't intended to be hard. What if I don't want to take the cacher by the hand and lead him to the tupperware? What if I want to challenge him? The hider intended this cache to be difficult. After a few people found an easier way to access it then even the hider knew of (reducing the 3/4 cache to about a 2/2), he archived it. One last example here. Posting driving directions to this cache would take it from a 4/4.5 to a 1.5/1.5, as well as taking all the fun out of it.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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... just put “parking coordinates and local information NOT available on request” on your cache page... (and an explanation why if you feel it's necessary).

 

"Challenges” can only be ‘offered’.. never forced.. (.. well.. in this hobby at least).

 

"Remember... nothing is completly worthless!!... it can always be used as a bad example"!

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Mopar and georgeandmary make excellent points for not posting coordinates, but what if a cache is supposed to be easy, or if giving the coordinates does not effect the difficulty? Tracy and I did few caches this weekend, and spent more time finding a parking spot than finding the two caches we were after. We give parking coordinates for three of our caches- it does not change the difficulty, and in one case, it lowers the chance of you getting managled trying to bushwhack to the cache.

 

Still, posting parking coordinates is an option, and it is up to the cache owner to decide whether to post or not.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Tecmage (R&T):

Mopar and georgeandmary make excellent points for not posting coordinates, but what if a cache is supposed to be easy, or if giving the coordinates does not effect the difficulty? Tracy and I did few caches this weekend, and spent more time finding a parking spot than finding the two caches we were after. We give parking coordinates for three of our caches- it does not change the difficulty, and in one case, it lowers the chance of you getting managled trying to bushwhack to the cache.

 

Still, posting parking coordinates is an option, and it is up to the cache owner to decide whether to post or not.


 

You're right of course, which is why I did offer the option on the 1st cache I mentioned above. Finding a legal place to park and enter is a bit tricky, and I wanted people to find an underused park, not offer them a tough search. Your last line hit the nail on the head, it is now, and needs to stay an option, not a requirement as some have suggested. It should be the hider's discretion, and each cache will be different. If the risk of bushwhacking thru a sensitive area is high, by all means post parking, trailheads, whatever it takes. Better yet, make it a multi, and use the various stages to guide cachers along the route you want them to take. If it's a kid's/family oriented cache, go ahead and post the parking. If you want to make things more challenging, and leave out the parking, thats fine, I'll find it anyway, and probably have a more interesting log to write when I'm done.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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For a good prior discussion of this topic, see Markwell's request for a "parking coordinates" field on cache pages, and the long debate which followed. Being able to download the parking coordinates, instead of entering manually, would be cool. Also, your car is automatically waypointed.

 

I come out right in the middle of this one. I'm in favor of OPTIONAL parking coordinates... at the hider's option, that is. Generally, I like the hunt and all the planning that goes into it. I like reading maps and exploring new areas. I don't mind getting lost and having to turn around several times. And, many times, I just don't NEED parking coordinates. Figuring this out is part of the process, and perhaps part of what goes into the difficulty ratings.

 

But there is a limit. I've attempted twice to find a couple of 1/1 caches in an unfamiliar area, where I just cannot find a legal access point that is consistent with the difficulty ratings. On one of these occasions, I had a friendly discussion with a member of the local constabulary, who had been summoned to the scene by a landowner. I was inadvertently trespassing! If the difficulty is rated 1/1, but finders repeatedly note the problems they had with parking, and someone with a fair number of cache finds has an "encounter with law enforcement", you gotta wonder why the cache hider can't be a bit more helpful. I think I'll e-mail him and see if that works!

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

I was formerly employed by the Department of Redundancy Department, but I don't work there anymore.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Tecmage (R&T):

Still, posting parking coordinates is an option, and it is up to the cache owner to decide whether to post or not.


 

That's how I proposed this option a while ago. It appears from a recent post by Jeremy (can't seem to find it, though) that the new version of the website is considering parking coordinates as and optional set of fields. If they are provided, it can also tell you the distance to the cache in a straight line.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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Although I don't have a problem with cache owner's posting parking coordinates if they choose to, it is not the cache owner's responsibility to make sure cache seekers don't trespass.

 

From a different perspective:

 

On several of my caches I originally provided parking coordinates that would provide what I considered the "optimal" caching experience the area offered.

 

I quickly discovered that the coordinates I had provided were routinely ignored in favor of parking that would require the shortest walk, regardless of whether the parking was legal or the walk entailed trespassing. So much for that; in the last cache I placed, I stated only the county I had parked in. (Though that information would have proven useful to a savvy cacher.)

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quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

It appears from a recent post by Jeremy (can't seem to find it, though)


 

Huh? Markwell can't markwell?! He's lost the magic! Alas, what next? SA and then The Apocalypse? icon_eek.gif

 

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

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That makes it *much* too easy to find the cache. Better to just let us know it's out there somewhere-- if we are pure geocachers, we will find it. The chaff will fall to the side, where they belong.

 

Sheesh!

 

MUST we re-invent the wheel every time we set out to cache? Are caches so easy to find that we have to add the "challenge" of little useful information? I enjoy checking out maps but I dislike getting lost in a car and despise having to backtrack and circle when I drive. Is that the goal of the "Pure" cachers-- to overcome the challenge of off-ramps and one-way streets? Where's the virtue in wasting gas? Are the True Cachers so adept that the sight of parking coordinates (or street names, even!) burns into their brain the image of where they need to start their search and therefore ruins the experience for them??

 

You don't like extra information, don't use extra information. You don't want to give extra information then don't. But don't look down your noses at those of us who use this sport as a way to get out into nature, hike a bit and seek hidden caches in new locales and NOT as an excuse to buy new techie toys and rev up the SUV.

 

Crikey.

 

Someone was asking why new folks drop caching (and other sports) after trying it just a bit. Perhaps part of the reason is because the True and Pure folk make them feel that if they aren't in it "110%" (an impossibility, btw: 100% is all there is) then they needn't bother.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, there's a white coat I need to crawl into for awhile. icon_mad.gif

 

X is for X, and X marks the spot, On the rug in the parlor, The sand in the lot, Where once you were standing, And now you are not.

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quote:
Originally posted by enfanta:

... don't look down your noses at those of us who use this sport as a way to get out into nature, hike a bit and seek hidden caches in new locales and NOT as an excuse to buy new techie toys and rev up the SUV.


 

I agree with much of what you stated in your post, but that passage struck me, because over the last year I have witnessed the sport having less and less to do with "getting out in nature/ discovering new locales/etc.," and more and more with "drive (the SUV) to xxx, exit the vehicle for 2 minutes in order to reach down and pick up the cache/take the photo/log the bit of info, then climb back in(to the SUV) and drive .25 mile to the next gimmee."

 

Yet the majority of caches that require some actual physical effort continue to go unsought and unfound; those cache owners either become frustrated and stop placing caches or lower their standards in order for their caches to "fit the norm" and receive finds. In a related development, gimmicks (spend a few hours at home solving a puzzle, etc., then go spend 3 minutes outdoors walking to the cache) have clearly become more important than quality of hide or location.

 

I don't view these as positive developments.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on March 03, 2003 at 10:39 AM.]

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When I first started caching, there was some though of doing away with the difficulty ratings since it was essentially the same as the terrain.

 

I live in a very flat Illinois. I've seen two caches (less than 1%) in my area that I would rate above a level 3 using ClayJar's ratings. So how can we have a challenging cache in the area?

 

My response was to create Hard as PI and the sequel Liberal Arts.

 

Those are the only two puzzle caches I'm going to create. Why? Because people, in general, don't want to take the time to find them. The people that have found them say that they really enjoyed them - read the logs.

 

quote:
Originally Posted by Bassoon Pilot:

Yet the majority of caches that require some actual physical effort continue to go unsought and unfound; those cache owners either become frustrated and stop placing caches or lower their standards in order for their caches to "fit the norm" and receive finds.


I find I'm doing the same with my puzzle caches. Replace the word "physical" with "mental" and you have my problem.

 

But should these caches be archived just because they're puzzle caches? Are they more "unworthy" because they don't make you physically work? That would be a very elitist attitude. Sounds kind of like - "only those who are extremely phyiscally fit are true geocachers" - and I know that's not what was meant.

 

Should there be more physically challenging caches? Yes.

 

Should there be more mentally challenging caches? Why not.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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I don't see how it make sit any easier to find the cache. You're still going to have to find the parking lot with coords.

 

Of the 2 caches I've done I had to park illegally because I couldn't find a spot to park nearby. And because it was crappy out I didn't want to spend 30 minutes looking for one.

 

Turns out when I got to the cache there was a spot nearby to park but it couldn't be easily seen from the road and would only be known if you;re familiar with the area.

 

Encrypt them, put em on another webpage, or have them available thru email, any way I'm for have coords. available.

 

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

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quote:
Originally posted by Rygel:

Of the 2 caches I've done I had to park illegally because I couldn't find a spot to park nearby. And because it was crappy out I didn't want to spend 30 minutes looking for one.

.


 

I don't know if you meant it that way but it sounds like you were to lazy to put in the effort. I'm just not into catering to people who don't want to put in the effort.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

... Replace the word "physical" with "mental" and you have my problem.

 

But should these caches be archived just because they're puzzle caches?


 

Well, since you quoted me, I'll respond ... but I neither stated that puzzles, etc. should be disallowed nor that any cache should be archived.

 

"Geocaching" is usually defined primarily as a physical, outdoors activity.

 

Puzzles, riddles, etc. are fine if they are used to enhance the primary activity ... which is to get outside, and physically do something.

 

It is my opinion that should the puzzle, etc. require far more time to solve than the actual activity to walk to and find the cache, then it's a pretty good mental challenge but a pretty weak geocache.

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quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

quote:
Originally posted by Rygel:

Of the 2 caches I've done I had to park illegally because I couldn't find a spot to park nearby. And because it was crappy out I didn't want to spend 30 minutes looking for one.

.


 

I don't know if you meant it that way but it sounds like you were to lazy to put in the effort. I'm just not into catering to people who don't want to put in the effort.

 

george

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.


 

The particular cache that gave me trouble was at the interesection of three roads one of which was a bridge. There's alot of traffic coming around blind corners. I drove by a couple of times but didn't see a legal spot to park. You can't slow down in NJ to try and get a better look or else you get horns and yells.

 

I ended up parking in a lot thats was for residents only. Luckily I got to the cache and back before I got a ticket.

 

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

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quote:
Originally posted by Rygel:

The particular cache that gave me trouble was at the interesection of three roads one of which was a bridge. There's alot of traffic coming around blind corners. I drove by a couple of times but didn't see a legal spot to park. You can't slow down in NJ to try and get a better look or else you get horns and yells.

 

I ended up parking in a lot thats was for residents only. Luckily I got to the cache and back before I got a ticket.


With just 2 finds, it's easy to see what cache you are talking about.

 

refreshmap.adp?z=8&rand=2332

 

I haven't hunted for that cache yet, but from the map, you can see there are 2 parks near the cache. If I wasn't familiar with the area, I would still guess that both parks would have a parking area. Now, since I am familiar with the area, I know there is a small parking area right at the trailhead. Hard to believe you passed it a couple of times without noticing it. Even then, if you had read the logs on the cache page, quite a few people mention the parking area that I speak of.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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geocaching is not being politically correct because we are leaving out all of the disabled and people with bad health. i think to bring geocaching more into line with the rest of the politically correct movement, we should make it mandatory that all caches be wheelchair and disabled accessible. oh and yes, parking coordinates should be mandatory as well.

 

Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity

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You know, that thing in the cache that takes up room and no one really wants?

 

quote:
i think to bring geocaching more into line with the rest of the politically correct movement, we should make it mandatory that all caches be wheelchair and disabled accessible. oh and yes, parking coordinates should be mandatory as well.

 

I think this statement definitely falls in that catagory.

 

X is for X, and X marks the spot, On the rug in the parlor, The sand in the lot, Where once you were standing, And now you are not.

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Mabye you should find a few more geocaches before you post so many recomdations to the forum. You'll be surprised how your view of geocaching changes the more you find.

 

I've seen logs from new cachers commenting on caches when the coordinates are 20ft off. After a while you don't even mention it when they're 30+ ft off. I think you're still in the prior stage.

 

You've started 3 or 4 threads now on hot topics that would answer themselves if you just spent more time geocaching or at least searching the forum.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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Of course, I'm not saying that we need to be politically correct. Nor am I saying that ALL caches need parking coordinates.

 

But isn't there room in the grand scheme of things for caches that provide parking coordinates and caches that allow people of limited or reduced abilities to be able to do this wonderful activity?

 

After all, that's why the terrain rating of stargreen.gif is listed as

quote:
Handicapped accessible. (Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.)

 

As I said, more difficult caches, more difficult terrain caches. Yes, yes, yes. But the occassional stroll in the park isn't bad either.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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I often include parking coordinates for my caches. In some cases, it's to encourage others to take a route that I think is the most interesting (not necessarily the shortest or easiest however icon_wink.gif ).

 

Other times it's specifically to keep people from trespassing, but most of the time it's to make things easier for those who don't like driving around looking for a place to park.

 

In the latter case, I'll encrypt them in the cheater and note that they are the parking coordinates. That way those who don't want them can find their own way and those who prefer parking coordinates can take the time to decrypt them.

 

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

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i need to get out of these forums, they are much more fun than they are supposed to be.

 

i asked questions why, and it's taken as mandatory, so i become sarcastic. some of these responses have me rolling on the floor they are so funny. you really can't take anyone on these forums seriously. it's all a big joke.

 

Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity

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