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a touchy subject


mufasa1023

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The guidelines have stated that:

"Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

The guideline does not say anything about what is left in caches however. I have noticed that religious literature often gets left in the caches that I visit. As a matter of fact the last cache I visited had a medallion in it that said something to the effect of "without god you would not have been able to find this cache" (My first thought of course was that I had used the man-made satelites to find it.) The point being though is that this person had purposely made up these medallions for geocaching itself. What if anything would be the correct action (if any) upon finding religious, political, social or commercial objects/literature within a cache? Assume that this is something that you dont agree with (i.e. a democrat finding GOP literature at a cache etc.) And also what should be deemed as soliciting? Finding the koran in a cache could be construed in many ways...

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I suppose it depends on what part of the line was crossed. Does leaving a McToy count as soliciting for McDonald's? How about a Hot Wheels car?

 

Your question was more about religious items, so I'll answer that instead. If an item such as a string of rosary beads or a cross offends you, leave it alone. If it is a pamphlet advertising an organization, trash it out.

 

I hesitate to put the word 'useful' here, but any item that is not 'useful' should not be in the cache. It can be argued that McToys and beads are not 'useful', so maybe change it to 'desired'. Kids desire to have McToys, beads, and other things; they don't desire pamphlets of information.

 

If the item is worthless, feel free to trash it out.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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WHO DO YOU THINK HOLDS ALL THOSE SATELLITES UP?

 

icon_wink.gif

 

My own feeling is that the policing of this kind of stuff in caches is up to the cache owner. If you feel like someone has left something objectional in your cache. Remove it and email the person who left it letting them know that it is an item you'd rather not have in your cache and offer to post it back to them if they like.

 

As a cacher I wouldn't be bothered by religious stuff. I'd just leave it be. Although if I saw any hate literature or something similar I'd trade (not too hard to trade up trash like that icon_wink.gif ) for it and bin it.

 

If I found a copy of the Koran in a cache I'd trade for it. I've never read any of it, so that would be pretty interesting.

 

ash

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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I don't know if leaving certain items is necessarily solicitation. For example, I once left National Wildlife Fund postcards in a cache. I just thought they were cool and it is not like they required anyone to make a donation or agree with the views of the organization. As another example, if someone leaves religious literature, I may or may not agree with the view and that is fine. If I'm interested in the item, I'll trade for it, and if not, I'll ignore it. I have also seen tons of corporate logo items in caches and have visited a cache whose theme was to trade logo items. It makes sense because there are tons of that stuff out there. But I doubt that the people placing it are generally seeking to push the product. I guess that unless someone is clearly seeking a contribution or using a cache to push a product, I don't view it as solicitation. Even then, I'm more concerned about caches that seek solicitations (which are clearly not allowed) than individual trade items.

 

pika waving

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My opinion is if you don't like what you see, don't take it. There are alot of people who find it offensive to use ammo boxes, they deal with it. This is about the same as not allowing a peice of rock with the 10 commandments because of it being offensive, but allowing all sorts of body peircings, tattoos, guys my size to wear thongs, etc. because it is someones choice and others have to look at it because it is a personal choice. I am in this for the hunt, not to read or examine (censor) what others have decided to leave in a cache. You can't please everyone, so just try to be realistic.

 

It's not a sport unless there is something dead in the back of the truck when you get home.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

I hesitate to put the word 'useful' here, but any item that is not 'useful' should not be in the cache. It can be argued that McToys and beads are not 'useful', so maybe change it to 'desired'. Kids desire to have McToys, beads, and other things; they don't desire pamphlets of information.

 

If the item is worthless, feel free to trash it out.


 

Your 100% wrong. IF you wish to trade, trade for 1 thing. Anything. Dont like something? Take something else. Nothing good to trade for? TNLN Those are your options as stated in the rules.

 

 

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

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quote:
Originally posted by Team AshandEs:

WHO DO YOU THINK HOLDS ALL THOSE SATELLITES UP?


 

Gravity.

 

The laws of physics.

 

Take your pick...

 

quote:

My own feeling is that the policing of this kind of stuff in caches is up to the cache owner. If you feel like someone has left something objectional in your cache. Remove it and email the person who left it letting them know that it is an item you'd rather not have in your cache and offer to post it back to them if they like.


 

I agree. It should be up to the cache owner. Although I am an athiest, I would leave medallions, rosary beads, crucifixes, buddas, etc. in my cache. I would likely remove pamphlets or other material designed to 'recruit' followers to any particular cult.

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On a lighter note, I can see why "solicitation" is not allowed in a cache, imagine going to the bad side of town to look for "Rosie's" coordinates left in a cache. Would read like this: "this is a moving cache, if cache is in use, please wait for your chance. Protective gear is required"

 

Then there would be the finders post:

"left nothing, took home a burning sensation, be careful when hunting around the bushes. Bring change for a $100"

 

new term: geo-hooker- polluting the gene pool, one gaget-holding geek at a time

 

It's not a sport unless there is something dead in the back of the truck when you get home.

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quote:
Originally posted by wyoduckhunter:

 

new term: geo-hooker- polluting the gene pool, one gaget-holding geek at a time.


 

And now if GC.com choose not to approve caches of this kind there will be accused of being narrow minded and trying to limit people's fun by not allowing new and inovative cache types icon_wink.gif

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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If you don't like it don't take it.

 

I am not personally interested in such things but it ultimately doesn't bother me either.

 

I am offended by the "crap" people leave. Old golfballs, useless items, broken items, and the like. A home-made signature magnet is great because someone took the time. But lets all be more imaginative.

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Hey, if you're going to title a subject as "a touchy subject", there better be something about boobs. I'm not a fan of the old bait-and-switch. We need a boob topic.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

 

icon_biggrin.gif Sometimes you really get in a good one when I am least expecting it! icon_biggrin.gif That one was a hoot!

 

 

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

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I'd guess most folks don't like having to do puzzle caches that involve sacrificing small animals and reading their entrails. But some might enjoy themselves.

So, in other words, don't let it bug ya, if you don't think it should be in the cache, trade it out and do with it as you please. But you probably shouldn't mention in your log exactly what you did with the item. icon_smile.gif

We tend to trade out for stuff that might harm caches or be thought of as trash (like hotel shampoos, soaps, witness pamphlets, matches and food). Just trade for the item if it bothers you and then get rid of it, and not worry about it. I expect that few placers of these items will ever contact you about that pamplhet you removed from the I Love Jesus Cache and ask if you have found the light.

Same as the folks who leave hotel shampoos writing you to ask if your hair is cleaner now.

-Jennifer

 

Age does not bring wisdom, but it does give perspective.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

but any item that is not 'useful' should not be in the cache.... If the item is worthless, feel free to trash it out.


 

Define 'useful and worthless'

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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Everybody has a passion of one sort or another. Some leave a WG dollar. Some a Mctoy. Some leave their personal signature item, and some leave religious items.

 

You either like or hate what was left, but you should always respect what was left. Just because you don't like it dosen't mean that the next person won't.

 

At what point do we take on the arrogance to decide what is a good trade item or not and remove it from a cache? Besides the obvious stuff that is not sociably accepted, such as porn and drugs.

 

El Diablo

 

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

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quote:
Originally posted by J&MBella:

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

but any item that is not 'useful' should not be in the cache.... If the item is worthless, feel free to trash it out.


 

Define 'useful and worthless'


That's why I said change it to 'desired'.

Dirty golfballs may not be very useful, but some people desire them (ask CarleenP or more details on this one)

 

quote:

Originally posted by Ish-n-Isha:

Your 100% wrong. IF you wish to trade, trade for 1 thing. Anything. Dont like something? Take something else. Nothing good to trade for? TNLN Those are your options as stated in the rules.


So, if someone leaves an empty broken coffee cup, I should leave it there? No, I'll trash it out because it is worthless and I won't leave anything in trade.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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I agree, I'm sure nobody has a use for a broken coffee cup. But somebody might like to get some literature on say Buddhism. You can't compare religious items to a broken coffee cup. Can you concede at least that much?

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

What if the coffee cup said 'I love Jesus'?


 

Ok. That's funny. If it's broken toss it. If it's not leave it.

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

What if the coffee cup said 'I love Jesus'?

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness


 

Same song second verse:

IF you wish to trade, trade for 1 thing. Anything. Dont like something? Take something else. Nothing good to trade for? TNLN Those are your options as stated in the rules.

 

 

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

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From the guidelines:

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Religious items in a cache do not offend me. I don't mind finding a cross or other religious object.

I do mind when there are a bunch of loose papers in a cache. Many times these are religious solicitations placed with good intentions, but are now cluttering the cache.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

 

I do mind when there are a bunch of loose papers in a cache.


 

FINE:

IF you wish to trade, trade for 1 thing. Anything. Dont like something? Take something else. Nothing good to trade for? TNLN Those are your options as stated in the rules.

 

 

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Hey, if you're going to title a subject as "a touchy subject", there better be something about boobs. I'm not a fan of the old bait-and-switch. We need a boob topic.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Alex Trebek: Great. Better luck to all of you in the next round. It's time for Double Jeopardy. Let's take a look at the board. And the categories are: Potent Potables, The Vowels, Presidents Who Are On the One Dollar Bill, Famous Titles, Ponies, The Number 10, and finally: Foods That End In "Amburger." Tom Cruise, you are in third place, so the board is yours.

 

Tom Cruise: I, a...[ laughs ], I, a...[ laughs ], I, a...[ laughs ], I, a...[ laughs ]

 

Alex Trebek: Mr. Sandler, why don't you pick instead?

 

Adam Sandler: Once again, something that could have been brought to my attention yesterday!

 

Alex Trebek: Mr. Connery, go ahead.

 

Sean Connery: The day is mine! I'll take Famous Titties for 400.

 

Alex Trebek: Titles, Famous Titles.

 

Sean Connery: dadgum!

 

Alex Trebek: And the answer is: This movie title is taken from the name of the book "Gone With The Wind." Mr. Sean Connery.

 

Sean Connery: Dolly Parton!

 

Alex Trebek: Titles, Mr. Connery. Not titties.

 

Sean Connery: Not a fan of the ladies, are you Trebek?

 

 

p.s. I found this here SNL Transcripts

 

[This message was edited by Cire Yamel on October 21, 2003 at 10:44 PM.]

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OK. I'll buy that. I hate when there are papers flying around too. If they are I just straiten them up and tuck then in the back of the log book. Usually loose papers are wet, moldy and nasty anyway. In that case I would trash them.

 

quote:
For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed.

 

This rule pertains to caches not trade items.

 

I think the general consensus is, if it's broken, moldy, racist, pornographic, drugs or dangerous trash it. If it's not and you just don't agree with it, leave it and trade for something else or don't trade. The next person might be contemplating converting to Buddhism or Democrat and value the information that I've neetly tucked in the back of the log book.

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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Yes. You can trade all of the items in a cache a replace them with propaganda. However I think that would fall under pirating.

At the very least it would not be trading up.

 

FAQ on GC.com

 

What is usually in a cache?

 

A cache can come in many forms but the first item should always be the logbook. In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else. The logbook contains information from the founder of the cache and notes from the cache's visitors. The logbook can contain much valuable, rewarding, and entertaining information. A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches, and even jokes written by visitors. If you get some information from a logbook you should give some back. At the very least you can leave the date and time you visited the cache.

 

Larger caches may consist of a waterproof plastic bucket placed tastefully within the local terrain. The bucket will contain the logbook and any number of more or less valuable items. These items turn the cache into a true treasure hunt. You never know what the founder or other visitors of the cache may have left there for you to enjoy. Remember, if you take something, its only fair for you to leave something in return. Items in a bucket cache could be: Maps, books, software, hardware, CD's, videos, pictures, money, jewelry, tickets, antiques, tools, games, etc. It is recommended that items in a bucket cache be individually packaged in a clear zipped plastic bag to protect them.

 

What shouldn't be in a cache?

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

I don't see anything about NOT placing propaganda in a cache.

 

And how much does paper really clutter a cache?

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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gpsaxophone, I would sure as bell report you to an admin if you traded all the items out of one of my caches for saxism material. Thats pretty crappy trading there isn't it.

 

GI Joe says its cool to trade even or trade up...

 

How about we leave all the rediculous hypothetical situations and "what ifs" out of this topic.

 

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One more thing...

 

The rule... caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed.

 

...does pertain to caches that's why it says caches perceived to be posted...

 

Not caches and trade items...

 

It is also why it's under the 'Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines' rules not the 'Guide to Finding a Cache' page.

 

I'm sorry if I seem a little obnoxious. It's not my intention and I don't mean any direspect. I'm always worried about that since this isn't a face to face conversation and you can't really tell what my tone is. I'm just presenting my point in a debate. Which I'm thinking had gotten way too much attention at this point and since it's now 2:15AM where I am, I'm going to sleep now.

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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I'm a dedicated Christian, and I don't generally leave Christian stuff at caches. At the same time, I'm not offended in the least to find a buddha in a cache, and I just might pick up a copy of the Koran if it was left there. Interesting. Leaving a religious token is not the same as shoving religion down someone's throat.

 

If there are no GC rules about it, then the law of the land applies. This country's about freedom *of* religion, not the abolishment of religion.

 

Jaime and Jason

Team Cacheopeia

 

image ©scienceandart.com -- used with permission

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Hey, if you're going to title a subject as "a touchy subject", there better be something about boobs. I'm not a fan of the old bait-and-switch. We need a boob topic.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

HERE Criminal

 

The medallion sounds like something some people would enjoy, why worry about it, I've left NIW Ozzfest CDs in caches, I'm sure they would offend some, but others would like them (no proof of that, on the ones I've left yet). I don't particularly like the idea of leaving religious tracts in caches, but really, it doesn't hurt anybody.

 

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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quote:
Originally posted by Ish-n-Isha:

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Hey, if you're going to title a subject as "a touchy subject", there better be something about boobs. I'm not a fan of the old bait-and-switch. We need a boob topic.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

 

icon_biggrin.gif Sometimes you really get in a good one when I am least expecting it! icon_biggrin.gif That one was a hoot!

 

http://www.geocachingwa.org

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

 


 

Or is it a Hooter icon_wink.gif

 

Sounds like a signature item. I'd grab it and trade for a Mctoy. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

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Everything you place in a cache reflects your own personality in some way. It's one of the things I love about the sport -- it brings together people who wouldn't give each other a second look otherwise, even if it's only as a collection of random items in a cache. Some people's personality includes religion, so I see no difference between a generic religious item (cross, Budda, Koran...) and an "I love Garmin" button. I think the "solicitaion" line is crossed when an item or pamphlet says "Do this or you're a bad person" or "Buy (into) my whatchmagigger." These things shouldn't be placed into caches, and I would not criticize someone for removing it without trading for it.

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quote:
Originally posted by GeoWorms:

Some people's personality includes religion, so I see no difference between a generic religious item (cross, Budda, Koran...) and an "I love Garmin" button. I think the "solicitaion" line is crossed when an item or pamphlet says "Do this or you're a bad person" or "Buy (into) my whatchmagigger." These things shouldn't be placed into caches, and I would not criticize someone for removing it without trading for it.


My point exactly.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

quote:
Originally posted by GeoWorms:

......pamphlet says "Do this or you're a bad person" or "Buy (into) my whatchmagigger." These things shouldn't be placed into caches, and I would not criticize someone for removing it without trading for it.


My point exactly.


 

Obviously you have never read any of these leaflets.

Does "Do this or you're a bad person" or "Buy (into) my whatchmagigger", sound like a effective way to approach someone?

 

Obviously NOT. None I have seen are remotely akin to what you suggest.

 

 

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

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I found a nicely laminated card inviting the find to a local meeting of a gay and lesbian society once.

 

Thought it was kind of strange to leave it in a cache, but I didn't take it or trash it out. To each their own.

 

I have found cross necklaces and other religious items in caches. I figure lots of cachers might be happy to trade for them, no harm done.

 

I wouldn't like people trading nice items for Jack Chick tracts, though (amusing as they are, I can't see it as "trading up" -- my kids have been happy to find a dirty golfball before).

 

--

stream of did I lock the front door? consciousness

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I am Jewish and am always getting Jesus stuff. As someone who does not believe in Jesus, the Jesus coffee cup is as valid to me as a "Bob" coffee cup because my name is Becki.

 

I am NOT offended by religious tokens in caches. I think it reflects on the visitors, just like the log does.

 

Every year for Halloween we had someone slip our kids the comic book with candy...about how we are going to hell cause we are non-believers. We would check our kids bag and figured out who was the Halloween Evangelist. It was our neighbor across the street! So we don't go there any more.

 

For anyone interested in more...Jews don't "testify" or seek converts so I don't have literature to hand out. I would only have dreidles etc to leave. There is a Mickey Mouse Theme cache near my house that I have not gone to yet. In my Geo-Bag I have some Hanukah Mickey Mouse stickers to leave. Now the reason I am bringing these , is that they might be valuable to a Mickey collector as I had to special order them. Mickey spining a top is not very religous!

 

As a person looking at all the Jesus items ( bracelets, beach balls, hats etc) I find it somewhat offensive to the spirit of Jesus. From the things I have read, Jesus would have been revolted by the Jesus coffee cup and probably would be revolted by Christmas santa and Easter Bunny commercializations. My super Christian neighbors ( Baptist) do NOT have a Christmas tree or decorations etc as they feel all that is "pagan".

 

In the end it, it comes down to respecting each other's faith.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ish-n-Isha:

Obviously you have never read any of these leaflets.

Does "Do this or you're a bad person" or "Buy (into) my whatchmagigger", sound like a effective way to approach someone?

 

Obviously NOT. None I have seen are remotely akin to what you suggest.

 

 


Actually, I have never found these in a cache, but I have read plenty of them that are left in restaruants, subways, hotel rooms etc. My example was simplifying the message, so I'll concede that the tone is rarely that blunt, but the point is the same. Further, I was not limiting my comment to religous matter only. I think buisness promotional material is equaly inappropriate--and usually far less subtle than the evangelical material.

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Does anyone know where I can get a case of whatchmagiggers and Jesus mugs?

 

OK. I'll agree that items that says 'worship the God of so and so or your face will fall off' should not be in a cache. And if you feel the need to trash it out I don't think anybody is going to care. Except maybe the person that put it there. I think we're all finally in agreement here.

 

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

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