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Religious Items!!??


bwolv

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I object to religious literature in caches. If we tolerate christian literature, then we must accept Devil worshipping literature, Atheistic literature, Political Literature, and business advertising literature. Do we really want our kids opening a cache that has literature advocating sacrificing chickens, or lambs, (or even humans) for worship purposes? How about Al-Qaeda or Taliban propaganda? Well I don't want mine exposed to christian propaganda either!

 

Why can't Christians be content with their own faith? (and leave others alone!) Why must they push it in people's faces? It's insulting and exposes the christian's own discomfort and dissatisfaction with their own faith. Otherwise their inner peace would allow them to live at ease with those who see the world differently.

 

This is a fun game that can remain fun without politcal/religious/business complications. Lets keep it that way

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Bah, Humbug! You object to Christian literature in caches. Someone else objects to McToys. Somebody else objects to geocaching cards. Another guy objects to Where's George dollars.

 

Who cares? None of the aforementioned items will harm anyone in any way. If something in a cache doesn't interest you, or offends your delicate sensibilities, just leave it alone and take something (or nothing) that does suit your taste. Simple, isn't it?

 

There's way too much whining and complaining going on.

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For Basoon; Sure as long as you don't object Al-Qaeda literature then I'm fine with it!

 

As to the link, I didn't include it because the literature was paper in the cache, not on the web page. The cache web page looks like any other. I presume the literature was added by a cache visitor.

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

For Basoon; Sure as long as you don't object Al-Qaeda literature then I'm fine with it!


 

Like it or not, we have something in the USA known as the First Amendment. If someone chooses to leave an Al-Qaeda "tract" in a cache I visit, I'm free to leave it there, or take it and use it as I see fit ... which wouldn't include reading it.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on April 27, 2002 at 05:02 AM.]

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You can find a small cartoon tract along with every item I place in a cache, neatly placed together in a zip lock bags, along with "Compliments of RAD Dad and Family" on the back. I don't fill caches with tracts, just one per item I place, and they are together with the item in the ziplock bag. In my own cache's I do usually have a couple extra tracts in there, as well as each item individually packaged with a tract, also I usually place in my own caches a book, "He Did This Just For You" by Max Lucado.

 

My faith is a core componant of who I am. And a core factor of my faith is the belief that as Jesus said of Himself "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through me" Jn 14:6 now, if I believe that, that Jesus is the Way, THE truth and THE life and that NO ONE comes to the Father but through Him, how hateful, how selfish would I have to be to not share that with people?

 

The tracts I place are not obtrusive. They don't grab you by the throat and force you to read them, they aren't full of profanity, they don't advocate harm to others, if you don't believe them, fine, they aren't going to blow up in your face. They are benign, yet powerful, for though they do no harm, they can bring about great and positive things to someone who read one, and embraces the truth they share, but if you read one and don't embrace them, you are no worse off then you were before. (no better off either)

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

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Just tonight I ran across Christian literature in a cache. My opinion is that I feel it's inappropriate, but as Rad Dad said.. it doesn't directly harm anyone. People leave food in caches, people leave matches, people leave knives... all things that may or may not be such a good idea. People also leave religious material. What can you do?

 

Bwolv, while I agree with your sentiment, I don't feel there is any reason to attack Christianity. The reason you see only Christian literature is that Christianity is the predominant religion in this country. As far as I know, all religions make an effort to recruit members (how else would they perpetuate?) so if you lived in another country, you'd probably see literature from another religion. Instead of attacking Christianity, I think you ought to attack all religions. saeek.gif

 

I would object to Satanic literature as much as I object to Christian literature... but I'll leave them both where they are. I'm not the ethical police.

 

Jamie

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

 

Why can't Christians be content with their own faith? (and leave others alone!)


Why? Because God loves you and I love you and want you to share in the glory of the Lord with me. Luke 24: 47 "..and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

quote:
Why must they push it in people's faces?
I'll start my answer to that with a question of my own. Do you know where you're going when you die? Are you TRULY sure with every fiber of your being? I am. I KNOW that Jesus is alive, and I KNOW that all who accept him as Savior will be in heaven with him one day, eternally praising him for all he has done. I'm so forward with the world because I have to be. God wishes that not one of us (all people, believers and non-believers at present) would be lost. Therefore I try to act as hands and a mouth of the Lord, bringing the word to as many as I can in my time here as his child. Acts 4: 20 "For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard."

quote:
It's insulting and exposes the christian's own discomfort and dissatisfaction with their own faith. Otherwise their inner peace would allow them to live at ease with those who see the world differently.
I don't understand how you view a person's love for Christ and wanting to share his saving grace with others as 'discomfort and dissatisfaction'. You're mistaken by thinking that followers of Christ have an 'inner peace'. I become just as scared and confused and worried and nervous and sad and unsure of things as any gentile. The difference is, I have an OUTTER peace that I can ACCESS through Jesus. Through prayer, bible study and trusting in the Lord, I can gain the strength I need to make it through the troubles in my life. I know that he is always there comforting me because he himself knows what it is like to be one of us. As for 'discomfort and dissatisfaction', since I asked the Lord to come into my life I've been the most comfortable and satisfied I have ever been in my entire life. He has saved my life physically many times, given me back my husband, given me a son, given me a home and food to eat, given me a wonderful extended family and family of other believers to fellowship with, he has given me LOVE, JOY, and PEACE OF MIND. How can you not be satisfied when he asks you to cast all of your cares upon him? Psalm 62: 5-8 "Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. My salvation and my honor depend on God; he is my mighty rock; my refuge. Trust in him at all times, O people; pour out your hearts to him, for God is our refuge."

 

The main reason people react to negatively to the message of the saving grace of God is because, within, they know it's right. You don't want to give up all of the fun you're having, do you? If you accept Christ as your savior, you would have to stop sinning and let's face it, sinning is fun. It cries out from within us, compelling us to do many things that may not seem harmful, but truly are in the end. I am not perfect, just because I am Saved doesn't mean I don't have those desires. The difference is, I try not to ACT on them with the help of the Lord as my strength. We know there's a lot of other ways to have fun without sinning too, don't we? (Geocaching!)

 

God DOES love you. He's seeking you out, waiting for the day when you will accept Jesus so that you can have a personal relationship with him. If you've actually finished reading this and not closed the window, good for you. It means that deep in your heart, you do want to be right with God. You've listened to what I have to say, now pray to him and LISTEN for the still, small voice that is HIM. When you're ready, ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins (yes, he'll forgive them ALL!) and ask him to come into your heart so that you can start a new life in Christ. Luke 15: 3-7 "Then Jesus told them this parable: 'Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.'"

 

dragonball-piccilo2.gifOkami - President, C.I.A.

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I am completely and totally against Barney the(Purple Anti-Christ!) Dinosaur and anything related to Chuck E. Cheese (a giant rodent that sells cheese? Who do they think they are kidding?!). I refuse to let my children watch them on TV, the Grandparents have already been put on notice as to what is and isn't allowed in our home and I refuse to purchase, cache-out or in any subsidize the on-going war against human decency that these two commercial figures represent.

 

HOWEVER, if I find items related to those entities within a geocache, I simple ignore it. To allow these Evil Shepards of Broadcast Television to even grace my fore-brain in the form of negative thought (ooops! I'm doing it now!) is to give them strength through negativity. I have better things to think about, more productive things to do with my life than get upset, frustrated or bemused about someone else's attempt at subjugating my open-minded and sensative offspring. Why strengthen the position of these heinous characters by paying attention to their blasphemy? By acknowledging these purpetrators of kid-brain-washing I am giving a minimal amount of credence to their campaign of terror and commercialism.

 

Do Not Give In! Vive le Liberte'!

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

I object to religious literature in caches.


 

If I didn't make my point before... you have just opened the door to a religious debate. If that was your intention, you have succeeded admirably. By making a negative comment in regard to religion your are no less guilty than those who's religious tracts you abhore.

 

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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I once had a teacher in grade school who suggested the way to eep friend in to never discuss religion and never to discuss politics.

 

So his next comment was, "And today's lecture is going to be "Religion in American Politics".

 

Anyway, maybe we should drop this one. It's too devisive and far afield from geocaching.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

I object to religious literature in caches. If we tolerate christian literature, then we must accept Devil worshipping literature, Atheistic literature, Political Literature, and business advertising literature. Do we really want our kids opening a cache that has literature advocating sacrificing chickens, or lambs, (or even humans) for worship purposes? How about Al-Qaeda or Taliban propaganda? Well I don't want mine exposed to christian propaganda either!

 

Why can't Christians be content with their own faith? (and leave others alone!) Why must they push it in people's faces? It's insulting and exposes the christian's own discomfort and dissatisfaction with their own faith. Otherwise their inner peace would allow them to live at ease with those who see the world differently.

 

This is a fun game that can remain fun without politcal/religious/business complications. Lets keep it that way


 

WHEW! What a hate-filled (Anti-Christian)tirade. I honestly feel sorry for someone who gets so riled up over somthing so benign. Dude. Take it easy. You're going to pop. Perhaps you'd like to consider moving to communist China. I hear they suppress the Christians pretty good over there. In the mean time, you might want to bone up on the constitution. Pay particularly close attention to the first ammendment and remember that the distribution of religious tracts is the free exercise of religion. It just so happens to be constitutionally protected. While I'm at it, how 'bout I quote it for you?

 

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

For Okami, Craist etc;

I am as sure in my believes as you are in yours. Yes positively sure. And I don't want to hear any more of the drivel. (unless you want to listen to mine) That is the point!


 

Go for it bwolv, I'd love to hear what more you have to say. I'm sure we both can learn something from the other in the end. voldar02.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

I object to religious literature in caches. If we tolerate christian literature, then we must accept Devil worshipping literature, Atheistic literature, Political Literature, and business advertising literature. Do we really want our kids opening a cache that has literature advocating sacrificing chickens, or lambs, (or even humans) for worship purposes? How about Al-Qaeda or Taliban propaganda? Well I don't want mine exposed to christian propaganda either!

 

Why can't Christians be content with their own faith? (and leave others alone!) Why must they push it in people's faces? It's insulting and exposes the christian's own discomfort and dissatisfaction with their own faith. Otherwise their inner peace would allow them to live at ease with those who see the world differently.

 

This is a fun game that can remain fun without politcal/religious/business complications. Lets keep it that way


 

What a lovely display of "tolerance"....

 

Need I say more?

 

AtP

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I think bwolv is getting a raw deal here. Nothing said in the original post was intended to be hateful or disrespectul, and yet several folks seem to be taking this as a personal attack.

 

I don't think that religious or political material belongs in caches, they're in the same boat as commercial items. Geocaches are not meant to be a medium for advertising or pushing any sort of agenda, even if you feel that you are just "offering" your information for those who you think might want it.

 

I see proselytizing religious cache items as being just as bad as pornographic or hate literature. I certainly wouldn't want my child to excitedly open a cache container and be exposed to any of it. Don't misunderstand me here, I don't object to cache items with angels or religious symbols, those I can just ignore. It is when the material is of a proselytizing nature, trying to convince someone that they need to change their "incorrect ways" and embrace someone else's "true faith".

 

I strongly support the protections of the First Amendment, and I think that everyone has the right to believe what they want to. I would really just rather not see Geocaching used as a medium for argument over whose ideas are better than others. As I said earlier, it is really no different than commercial advertisements in caches.

 

There are plenty of other arenas for debate over politics, world affairs and religion, please don't let it mar the sport we all love!

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Man ole man...... Seems like we got a lot people up on the ole soap box on this subject. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Two of my Sunday School classmates are into GeoCaching and we had the idea to place a cache on church property but in the woods. If one person finds it and notices the church then decides to visit, so be it. I think that would be cool.

 

I would also think that by the number of caching families that I see and meet, there must be alot of church going people in this group. I may be wrong.... just my thought.

 

As an added note, I also like NASCAR, cold beer and Jack Daniels. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Have a great day!!!

 

Jeff of Team Acer

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Man ole man...... Seems like we got a lot people up on the ole soap box on this subject. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Two of my Sunday School classmates are into GeoCaching and we had the idea to place a cache on church property but in the woods. If one person finds it and notices the church then decides to visit, so be it. I think that would be cool.

 

I would also think that by the number of caching families that I see and meet, there must be alot of church going people in this group. I may be wrong.... just my thought.

 

As an added note, I also like NASCAR, cold beer and Jack Daniels. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Have a great day!!!

 

Jeff of Team Acer

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FWIW, the only things I object to in caches are:

 

Illegal items

Food

Bodily waste and/or fluids

 

As a parent, I would prefer that certain items not be sitting on top when we look for the log book, but I can't shelter my kids forever. It doesn't matter if it is an adult calendar in a cache, or anti-Catholic literature left on our windshield (both have occured). I pretty much treat it the same.

 

I acknowledge that it exists, and explain why I don't think it is appropriate, and answer their questions as best I can.

 

Someone very wise once told me that the best way to see what principles a person stands for, is to see which ones that they stick to when it really costs them. Free speech is easy to stomach when you agree with what is being said. Supporting it when you vehementally disagree is something else...

 

-jjf

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I say that religious tracts and material is fine as long as it does not promote the harming of anyone, which means that any cult or taliban-type material is RIGHT OUT!

This is one of those things that everyone is just going to have to agree to disagree on, since no one is going to change their mind. Since everyone here enjoys geocaching, we're all sort of a nice big, usually happy family sort of thing. Therefore, if there's something that someone in the group enjoys and takes comfort in (Christian faith), then it's perfectly reasonable for that person or persons to tell others how much it means to them, and it should show yo how much they care for you as a person that they want you to know the joy that they know in their faith. You should just think of it as someone caring for you and wanting to help you, and don't immediately discard it as being "pushy" religious material. Keep in mind Christianity is a 7000+ year old religion. It started with the first promise of Jesus coming to redeem us...not with His crucifiction and resurrection, or even his birth. You have to accept that 90% of the Christians out there don't live like they should, but life is full of hypocrisy at every turn, so that's no excuse to insult them or object so strongly to them...

If a quarterback throws complete passes only 1 out of 7 times, he's never gonna make it into the pros. Likewise, Christians should live EVERY day like it's Sunday, because we are being watched by the Recruiter above. We've already signed the contract to be on the team, but now we have to work to earn out heavenly pay details.

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quote:
Originally posted by bwolv:

I object to religious literature in caches. If we tolerate christian literature, then we must accept Devil worshipping literature, Atheistic literature, Political Literature, and business advertising literature. Do we really want our kids opening a cache that has literature advocating sacrificing chickens, or lambs, (or even humans) for worship purposes? How about Al-Qaeda or Taliban propaganda? Well I don't want mine exposed to christian propaganda either!

 

Why can't Christians be content with their own faith? (and leave others alone!) Why must they push it in people's faces? It's insulting and exposes the christian's own discomfort and dissatisfaction with their own faith. Otherwise their inner peace would allow them to live at ease with those who see the world differently.

 

This is a fun game that can remain fun without politcal/religious/business complications. Lets keep it that way


 

Too late. You allready politicized it with your religiouse whining.

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quote:
Originally posted by Milgren:

I think bwolv is getting a raw deal here. Nothing said in the original post was intended to be hateful or disrespectul, and yet several folks seem to be taking this as a personal attack.

 

I don't think that religious or political material belongs in caches, they're in the same boat as commercial items. Geocaches are not meant to be a medium for advertising or pushing any sort of agenda, even if you feel that you are just "offering" your information for those who you think might want it.

 

I see proselytizing religious cache items as being just as bad as pornographic or hate literature. I certainly wouldn't want my child to excitedly open a cache container and be exposed to any of it. Don't misunderstand me here, I don't object to cache items with angels or religious symbols, those I can just ignore. It is when the material is of a proselytizing nature, trying to convince someone that they need to change their "incorrect ways" and embrace someone else's "true faith".

 

I strongly support the protections of the First Amendment, and I think that everyone has the right to believe what they want to. I would really just rather not see Geocaching used as a medium for argument over whose ideas are better than others. As I said earlier, it is really no different than commercial advertisements in caches.

 

There are plenty of other arenas for debate over politics, world affairs and religion, please don't let it mar the sport we all love!


 

Look at religiouse items as a signature item and you should be happy. So long as a religiouse track is not printed on food, ammo, or fecal matter there is no issue. Trade for it with your signature item and toss it.

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Protesting the placement of christian literature isn't anti-chrisitian nor is it anti-religious. I think that the final quote was absolutely on target. "This is a fun game that can remain fun without politcal/religious/business complications." Commericial caches are prohibited but items placed in caches aren't governed. Ergo placing such items isn't against the rules, but seriously what is the need to bring such material into the game? Judging by the posts, they clearly can polarize individuals, so why bother?

 

I personally wouldn't mind seeing such material prohibited, because geocaching wasn't established as a way to communicate a message (whether it's who to vote for, buy my stuff or worship my god). I realize however that this would be nearly impossible to define, nor enforce, so it's not practical to do so. People should be sensible enough not to though.

 

I don't expect to have to turn away conversion attempts when I peruse the contents of the geocache.

 

[This message was edited by Gwho on April 27, 2002 at 04:47 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Geo Quest:

While I'm at it, how 'bout I quote it for you?

 

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."


 

Just out of curiosity... What does this Amendment have to do with what a group of geocachers decides is/isn't appropriate to place in caches? As best as I can tell it prohibits the Congress of the United States from making that decision... but no where does it state that any other group of people can or can't make a similar decision amongst themselves.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

Support your local rescue team.... Get Lost!

_____________________________________________________

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My wife and I enjoy sharing our love of Christ! Geocaching is a very exciting way to do just that. We don't intend to offend anyone - I certainly wasn't offended when someone took the time to explain salvation to me.

Just remember these items are left purely out of love for others.

I enjoy looking at the diverse contents of caches and would hope everyone does. Let's just keep it clean so as NOT to offend anyone, of any age, and continue to enjoy this sport.

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IMHO:

 

Placing religious or political literature in caches: a dumb, flakey idea.

 

Making a rule against placing religioius or political literature in caches: an even dumber, flakier idea.

 

Discussing on this forum what we do and do not like to find in caches: not a bad idea.

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I think it is appropriate here to make mention that most anti-religious comments are really anti-Christian. What I think is even more sad is that many Christians cause this sentiment.

 

No one like to be struck face to face with a radical wild-eyed pastor and get shot down with condemnation. Oh, what he is saying may be good and all, but the way is says it is offensive.

 

To place a simple tract in a cache is so benign. Most folks will probably pass right over it. Some may read it and get offended. So be it. Let it be. Some may read it and get inspired. God bless 'em.

 

I have the right to maintain my caches and remove/add anything I see fit. I don't have to right to maintain BillyBob's cache the way I see fit [Didn't check to see if there really IS a BillyBob in geocaching.com...if there is, whoops! Sorry!].

 

Yeah, I'm as Right Wing as they get. Perhaps even a "Religious Right Wacko". Nah. I am simply a Christian who likes to cache.

 

To my Christian friends out there, let us not lose sight of "First Amendment" this or that. Geocaching is not a Federal Program, and so it doesn't really apply here. What DOES apply here is the freedom FROM regulations and rules.

 

Our guidelines are clear. Nothing illegal, nothing edible.

 

Some may be offended by things left in caches. Fortunately for ALL Americans, there is no right to keep from being offended.

 

I was offended by bwolv's post. I have the right to be offended. i have the right to close this thread, keep my perverbial lips shut, and go back to reading the debates on ammocans.

 

Funny thing is, though, that [geocaching excepted] he's right about his very first point. Christians fight to keep other religious ideas away, and we are apt to ban our own religion if we don't accept a little tolerence. To that end, I say, Bwolv, let the other literature in.

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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I took a wathc and left gods blessing. MMM, That is what i want to see, a cache full of gods blessings in the log book. I traded a game boy for one of my bibles (Free bibles). Your siganature item may be a free bible, but it is not fair to trade free stuff for other stuff that we pay good money for. Or trading things that cost money for gods blessings.

This is just some of the stuff that pisses Miss Rosey off.

 

Thanks

Miss Rosey

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:

Just tonight I ran across Christian literature in a cache. My opinion is that I feel it's inappropriate,

.... snip ....

Bwolv, while I agree with your sentiment,

.... snip ....

Instead of attacking Christianity, I think you ought to attack _all_ religions. http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/saeek.gif

 

Jamie


 

Uh, Jamie, he did attack all religion. Get it?

 

Blueapreacher

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Wow, this got hot real quick!

 

First, has anyone seen or really believe that El-Queda, Chicken sacrificers, or the Amish are going to use geocaching to promote their views? Come on, that is not the way it is.

 

Around here, (Indiana) there are a lot of people with strongly held religious beliefs. Many cachers are that way. One goes by the name "holy roller'. I'm of that persuasion myself, thus the name 'Bluespreacher'. Please keep in mind that it is an integral part of Christian faith to make expression to others. Some choose to leave religious items in caches. I leave a few tracts in _my_ caches. While some may not be interested, these tracts will not hurt anyone. I was amazed by the comment that religious tracts are as bad as pornography. Let's try to be rational here, OK?

 

Bottom line is, this stuff is not harmful, aybe even helpful. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't want your kids to see it, make sure you are there when they open the cache (not a bad idea anyway). Take three deep breathes and try to keep your wits about you in this world. There may be things you don't like, put them in perspective, and go about your business.

 

Bluespreacher

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I feel that anything of decent moral fiber should be permitted. While I have a strong belief that the bible and organized religion is nothing more that scare tactics (believe in Jesus or your going to hell... by the way... our church needs a couple thousand dollars for...), I am 100% FOR people putting these items in a cache. Why? Because any educated person can read them and decide for themselves what they believe. If you are NOT educated and are completely mindless, then the chances are that you need some kind of moral guidence anyway. Not saying people withoug intelligence are immoral - but people who do not think for themselves have a higher percentage of crime. Nor am I saying that people in religion are uneducated. In fact, some of the most educated people are religious. All I am saying here is that these things should be allowed - religions are based on morals and ethics so why not?

 

If, after reading the stuff, you feel that you should base your decisions on a book where the writings are almost 2000 years old and the second half was written about some guy over 100 years after he died, then that's your choice.

 

Remember... God has a plan for us all. Everything that happens is in his plan. Also, as followers of Jesus, it is up to him to judge and us mortal beings should not. Therefore, Bin Laden should be praised for carrying out God's plan... and he should not be judged by us fellow beings. icon_eek.gif

 

Actually, I would like the bible quoting guy (I don't remember the name) to e-mail me directly because I've always wondered about this and other things and he sounds like he knows more than any of the preachers or priests to whom I've talked.

 

I'm more than willing to change my views should someone give me a logical argument on the subject. Of course, any of us who don't have blind faith and devote every last minute to religion are the work of satan. icon_biggrin.gif

 

At any rate, let others put what they want in the caches as long as they are moral and decent.

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I feel that anything of decent moral fiber should be permitted. While I have a strong belief that the bible and organized religion is nothing more that scare tactics (believe in Jesus or your going to hell... by the way... our church needs a couple thousand dollars for...), I am 100% FOR people putting these items in a cache. Why? Because any educated person can read them and decide for themselves what they believe. If you are NOT educated and are completely mindless, then the chances are that you need some kind of moral guidence anyway. Not saying people withoug intelligence are immoral - but people who do not think for themselves have a higher percentage of crime. Nor am I saying that people in religion are uneducated. In fact, some of the most educated people are religious. All I am saying here is that these things should be allowed - religions are based on morals and ethics so why not?

 

If, after reading the stuff, you feel that you should base your decisions on a book where the writings are almost 2000 years old and the second half was written about some guy over 100 years after he died, then that's your choice.

 

Remember... God has a plan for us all. Everything that happens is in his plan. Also, as followers of Jesus, it is up to him to judge and us mortal beings should not. Therefore, Bin Laden should be praised for carrying out God's plan... and he should not be judged by us fellow beings. icon_eek.gif

 

Actually, I would like the bible quoting guy (I don't remember the name) to e-mail me directly because I've always wondered about this and other things and he sounds like he knows more than any of the preachers or priests to whom I've talked.

 

I'm more than willing to change my views should someone give me a logical argument on the subject. Of course, any of us who don't have blind faith and devote every last minute to religion are the work of satan. icon_biggrin.gif

 

At any rate, let others put what they want in the caches as long as they are moral and decent.

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I have no problem with religious literature in geocaches. I've left some myself, and I've taken some - I even read it. I don't always agree with it, but at least I learn something.

 

If you are offended by something you find in a cache, you have three choices: Ignore it, email the cache owner, or trade for it and get rid of it. (Unless it's one of the items expressly forbidden on the site, in which case you can trash it without trading - IMO.)

 

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What difference does it make? Religion (whichever one you worship) was created by MAN. Most beliefs are passed down through family. The texts that are taught from are based on stories told before the written word. Like many stories, they may have been embelished, they contained what were believed to be morals and taught right from wrong.

 

I love to geocache, but I do not want to open caches and find literature on any religion. This is not the venue to be discussing or preaching.

 

Bear

 

P.S. Before I get slammed with "sinner" and "godless", I am a believer in God. Life in itself is a miracle. However, I do not believe anyone is near evolved to communicate with him/her.

 

Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

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Let me ask a hypothetical question:

You are a hard-core "if they place it we will cache"-type geocacher. You also happen to be down on religious materials placed in caches. You notice a new cache in your vacinity, one like THIS. Are you going to go visit it?

 

IMHO, if you go there and trade for items that those people have placed, you are a hypocrite. A group of Christians (Christian school kids) got together and placed a cache. Of course they included things like small-sized New Testament Bibles, and maybe a couple of religious tracts/cartoons. Maybe you don't find anything that you wanted to trade for, so you Take Nothing, Left Nothing and logged it as a find.

 

My point is this: You don't know the political, religious or sexual leanings of anyone who places a cache, nor should it matter unless you are going to apply your personal, theological or political beliefs to geocaching.

 

If you don't like their viewpoints, and are adamantly against what they believe, you should NOT log it as a find. If you want to set aside your prejudices and misconceptions about mankind in general for a few hours, by all means, go geocaching and log it as a find. But don't go *****ing about it afterwards.

 

Those who are non-religious are not going to sway the beliefs of those who are pro-religious, so why don't we all just stop posting here? Topics such as this only cause animosity among a (normally) very amicable group. Why keep poking at one another? Stop kicking this obviously dead horse.

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Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

Let me ask a hypothetical question:

You are a hard-core "if they place it we will cache"-type geocacher. You also happen to be down on religious materials placed in caches. You notice a new cache in your vacinity, one like THIS. Are you going to go visit it?

 

IMHO, if you go there and trade for items that those people have placed, you are a hypocrite.


 

I'm confused as to why you feel this way about the cache you referenced. Is it the WWJD braclet?

 

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"I may be slow, but at least I'm sweet!" 196939_800.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

I'm confused as to why you feel this way about the cache you referenced. Is it the WWJD braclet?


 

I DON'T feel this way about the cache I referenced, which is my point. I went for the hunt, I had a great time and it was a cool cache, especially since it was in a historical graveyard and we went at night. I even traded for the cool bright orange New Testament because I thought my 8-year old (who is choosing to read the Bible on his own) didn't have the N.T. in his Bible.

 

As I said, it was a hypothetical question to those who are against religious materials in caches. If a religious group or school places a cache, and possibly places items in the cache related to their personal faith, and (hypothetically) YOU are a hard-core geocacher who is against religious items in caches, would you go to the cache just to log it as a find?

 

NOW do you understand? The only items I feel are bad to place in or trade into a cache are adult-rated items (condoms, porn), alcohol or drugs, cigarettes, explosives and fireworks, obvious trash and (obviously) food items no matter how benign. I am there to cache, enjoy the hunt, trade my items (or not), enjoy the scenery and head home to post the find and write about my and my family's adventures. THAT is what geocaching is all about (to me) and other than the items listed above I don't care what items are in the cache, as long as we have fun caching.

 

The folks here shouldn't lose sight of the main reason we are engaging in this sport/hobby: To Have Fun, See New Places and To have Fun. Oh, and did I say, Have Fun?

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Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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