Child Unfriendly?

7.2k · September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:
One of the most damaging trends I see in this country is the lack of maturity into adulthood.

Yep, your right. The owner of the site has asked that you not put knives in caches. A mature adult would respect that and not do it and would not moan about it.

Time to move on.

1.4k · September 4, 2003

quote:
A mature adult would respect that and not do it and would not moan about it.

A mature adult also has the right and responsibility to try to change things that they view as wrong and to debate amongst their peers subjects such as this.

I like Jeremy a lot but, as witnessed by me, there are lots of caches out in the wild with knives in them and there are all age groups that enjoy trading these types of trinkets. If Jeremy were to suddenly say, "put knives in caches" would that make it okay? Jeremy/GC.com can limit what content is listed on their site which is their right and responsibility. However, Jeremy and GC.com are not the end-all in geocaching or many of its variants. They are not the geocaching gods, merely the ones that have been able to commercialize geocaching better than anyone else. I understand why Jeremy/GC.com doesn't want someone to have a knife in a cache and especially not to list in on the cache page as it helps limit their liability, however a ballpoint pen in a cache is just as dangerous, if not more so, than most of the cheap knives I have seen in caches.

This whole discussion is really a moot point. Jeremy/GC.com is not going to remove the "no knives" wording from the site and there are going to be those that will continue to place and trade-for knives in caches.

I guess what really has gotten me worked-up in this thread is that I hate that our society gotten to a point where so many feel that they must be protected from themselves and expect everyone else to do it for them. I hate the fact that in this 'sue happy' society that everything must now have a disclaimer or warning on it. Life, unfortunately is dangerous and, in fact, life is eventually fatal. I'm sure that there's a lawyer out there somewhere trying to figure out how to sue God over this fact.....

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

1.6k · September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
A mature adult also has the right and responsibility to try to change things that they view as wrong and to debate amongst their peers subjects such as this.

Yep

quote:

This whole discussion is really a moot point. Jeremy/GC.com is not going to remove the "no knives" wording from the site and there are going to be those that will continue to place and trade-for knives in caches.

I am not sure its really moot, as it serves a purpose that we need to have served. Principally, that the "rules" of geocaching need to be either codified for real and everyone learns to play by them (like all other sports) or we agree to have variations on the game (like Softball versus Baseball). The "rules" and the lack of enforcement creates a climate of selective persecution. I had a cache that was in celebration of Lewis and Clark. I wanted to set up minicaches that would travel forth from the home cache and explore the country. These were immediately disallowed. Two weeks after I pull the plug on this idea, a d*mn travelling cache shows up on the area cache list. Do I feel that GC is being fair? No. Do I want to support the rules when my travellers are rejected and some other players are allowed? The game is getting too big to be a thing that a bunch of hikers do for laughs. We need to have some structure and definition. So the discussion really does serve a point.

quote:
I guess what really has gotten me worked-up in this thread is that I hate that our society gotten to a point where so many feel that they must be protected from themselves and expect everyone else to do it for them. I hate the fact that in this 'sue happy' society that everything must now have a disclaimer or warning on it. Life, unfortunately is dangerous and, in fact, life is eventually fatal. I'm sure that there's a lawyer out there somewhere trying to figure out how to sue God over this fact.....

Couldn't agree more. Do I think that for one minute that its my fault that your kid cuts his hand on the pocket knife I left in a geocache? No. The world is out there, and its full of risks and possibilities, kids need to learn to limit their risks and expand their possibilities.

Life is not life when its lived inside a bubble.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nebraskache/

September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:
One of the most damaging trends I see in this country is the lack of maturity into adulthood.

Yep, your right. The owner of the site has asked that you not put knives in caches. A mature adult would respect that and not do it and would not moan about it.

Time to move on.

I haven't placed a knife in any cache and don't really intend to. However, where does this stop? What is "safe"? Is it safe?

What is the difference between "moaning" and "dissent"? (oh, I can already hear the wise cracks...)

September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
However, Jeremy and GC.com are not the end-all in geocaching or many of its variants. They are not the geocaching gods, merely the ones that have been able to commercialize geocaching better than anyone else. I understand why Jeremy/GC.com doesn't want someone to have a knife in a cache and especially not to list in on the cache page as it helps limit their liability, however a ballpoint pen in a cache is just as dangerous, if not more so, than most of the cheap knives I have seen in caches.

This whole discussion is really a moot point. Jeremy/GC.com is not going to remove the "no knives" wording from the site and there are going to be those that will continue to place and trade-for knives in caches.

I guess what really has gotten me worked-up in this thread is that I hate that our society gotten to a point where so many feel that they must be protected from themselves and expect everyone else to do it for them. I hate the fact that in this 'sue happy' society that everything must now have a disclaimer or warning on it. Life, unfortunately is dangerous and, in fact, life is eventually fatal. I'm sure that there's a lawyer out there somewhere trying to figure out how to sue God over this fact.....

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

I believe these comments sum it up nicely. GC.com is a web site set up to promote geocaching. They do not have an exclusive licence to determine how to play the game. They can only limit what is posted to their web site. Once people realize that, they will understand that what it says in a faq a RULE for the web site but is only a GUIDELINE for caching.

1.4k · September 4, 2003

a RULE for the web site but is only a GUIDELINE for caching

My sentiments exactly... if this weren't the case those of us that enjoy the sport would never find condoms or food items in caches. GC.com can only limit what someone posts on their site, they can not control what people take or leave.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

1.2k · September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
_a RULE for the web site but is only a GUIDELINE for caching_

My sentiments exactly... if this weren't the case those of us that enjoy the sport would never find condoms or food items in caches. GC.com can only limit what someone posts on their site, they can not control what people take or leave.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

This sounds like it's also practical as well. Jeremy/GC.com can state they have no control over what is actually placed in caches, but they do show the guidlines they propose to every cache placer just in case some moron isn't supervising their children as they open an ammo can full of who knows what.

If we are afraid children will find a knife in a cache, aren't we actually saying we think parents are too inept to supervise their own children? If we are afraid some *inmate worker* on a work crew is going to find a cache with a knife it it, aren't we saying the corrections officers in charge of such crews are too inept to be doing so? If I have to *protect* you from something, I must first make the assumption you are an incompetent boob....

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

1.4k · September 4, 2003

Nice post Breaktrak

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
I guess what really has gotten me worked-up in this thread is that I hate that our society gotten to a point where so many feel that they must be protected from themselves and expect everyone else to do it for them. I hate the fact that in this 'sue happy' society that everything must now have a disclaimer or warning on it. Life, unfortunately is dangerous and, in fact, life is eventually fatal. I'm sure that there's a lawyer out there somewhere trying to figure out how to sue God over this fact.....

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

To quote Gus Grissom, as portrayed by Fred Ward in 'The Right Stuff':

"F***in' A, Bubba."

ApK

Philisophical Libertarian

2.1k · September 4, 2003

I agree Jeff. Like I said before somewhere else. It's one thing to place something in a cache, it's another to log it. I didn't say it in those words, but that's the gist of it. I think the 'no knives' thing is to protect GC. He can't control whats put in them or taken out. But he will have something to fall back on when the heat is under the collar. Personally I won't place a knife in a cache. Would I take one? Sure if I had something of same value as it to trade with.

I also think that a knife is something that should be given to a kid under supervision by their own parents/guardian. As stated, they are responsible for them and not I. Just as I wouldn't want someone to give my child a knife without me knowing it.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
I agree Jeff. Like I said before somewhere else. It's one thing to place something in a cache, it's another to log it. I didn't say it in those words, but that's the gist of it. I think the 'no knives' thing is to protect GC. He can't control whats put in them or taken out. But he will have something to fall back on when the heat is under the collar. Personally I won't place a knife in a cache. Would I take one? Sure if I had something of same value as it to trade with.

I also think that a knife is something that should be given to a kid under supervision by their own parents/guardian. As stated, they are responsible for them and not I. Just as I wouldn't want someone to give my child a knife without me knowing it.

Brian

Very well put. I have been polling some of my co-workers about this topic and have gotten some very intersting answers. Out of 6 ppl 5 would not let anyone younger than 10 have a pocket knife without them knowing it first, 1 thought if the kid is ready for it and younger than 10 it's ok. 5 feel it's ok to carry a pocket knife only if you are going into the woods or hiking or whatever, not just going to walmart, 1 thought it was ok to carry wherever. 5 think that if it is a guideline not to leave a knife as a trade, they wouldn't do it, 1 didn't see an issue with it. All 6 agreed it should be supervised (everyone agrees with that). I used to carry a pocket knife when I was a teenager and my mother had a fit about it. My son, 15, was just given a swiss army style knife by his grandfather. I gave him strict guidelines it is not to leave the house unless we are going caching.

It was quite interesting to hear the different views and how they came to the decisions made. I still don't agree with putting knives in caches but I think I understand everyones view on the topic better. And a little side note here, I hope I didn't offend anyone with any comments made by me. Reading back throught the posts some of the replies by others made it seem as the author were shall we say Pi**ed Off. I take no offense to anyones views, and I hope they take no offense to mine. VIVA LA GEOCACHE!!!

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Cache me out dammit, I'm in a hurry!

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I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

1.4k · September 4, 2003

Well the poll definitely doesn't have a broad enough range of participants to be truly valid but it's interesting nevertheless. I did find it humorous the 5 out 6 in the poll only think a knife should be carried in the woods (where a majority of caches are hidden). If I lived about 20 miles from Buffalo I would make sure I carried one all the time I do like that part of the country and enjoyed a trip to Tonawanda, although the trip from Palmyra to there was quite a bumpy one of the Thruway (did I spell that right?).

We all want the best for our children and no one should be condemned for trying to do the best they know when rearing their children. Our methods may vary, but we all love our children and I would gladly give the same care to anyones' child as I would to my own, as I'm 99.9% sure most other people would. However, I have attempted to rear my children with a healthy respect for all things which I deem to be dangerous. There are things in life which they will not be able to avoid and some of these things are dangerous. In this case a knife. A knife can be a deadly instrument when used carelessly, or when used with malice. A knife can also be a helpful tool and can be used for fun when perfoming hobbies such as carving and whittling. The knife, itself, is not capable of performing good or evil tasks. I have carried one for almost 30 years and have carried a firearm daily for 15 years. Both items are simply tools. As I stated, I understand why GC.com would say no knives, as to attempt to limit their liability. However, doesn't the site's disclaimers state they aren't responsible for "any direct, indirect, punitive, or consequential damages arising out of, or in any way connected with the use of this website or use of the information contained within."

Anyways, I am not offended by any statements made in this thread. My position on the subject hasn't changed and I'm sure the anti-knife person's thought haven't changed, but it is fun to exchange ideas.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 4, 2003

When we started goecaching, we encountered two knives within the first six caches. As they were hidden if fairly accessible (to children) places we traded for them.

Common sense has a lot to do with this subject, but seeing as not everyone has it, better to stick to rules then have someone hurt.

I for one would not like to find out that a child had come across a cache at which I had left a knife and did damage to themselves.

I believe the parents should be the ones to supply the knife and supervision of the learning of safety. Given that, I would think that if you were bent on placing knives it should be in the higher difficulty caches where children are not likely to stumble on them.

All was not lost tho, because my husband can always use knives in the oil field, and the 1 inch blade one he has, he uses to clean his finger nails (he likes to live dangerously !)

Anyway I can understand the reason the rule was put in place...it would be way to sad if GC was hit by a law suit, or had to start providing themselves insurance against claims.This would be costly, either in having to purchase coverage, or the possibility of the end of sites such as this.

On second thought if my husband wanted to live dangerously, HE could give ME the knives.

( laughing evily )

September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
Well the poll definitely doesn't have a broad enough range of participants to be truly valid but it's interesting nevertheless. I did find it humorous the 5 out 6 in the poll only think a knife should be carried in the woods (where a majority of caches are hidden). If I lived about 20 miles from Buffalo I would make sure I carried one all the time I do like that part of the country and enjoyed a trip to Tonawanda, although the trip from Palmyra to there was quite a bumpy one of the Thruway (did I spell that right?).

LOL, I tried to talk to more ppl about it but what I did try to do is talk to different folks that were raised in the city and in the country on farms. I'm a city boy and have been all my life so I wanted to make sure I wasn't being biased from the way I was raised. Yeah living near Buffalo is uhh, rather interesting. Geographically we are more concerned with the garbage that is imported from Niagara Falls more. That city has gone to almost nothing but slums and crime crime crime. You spelled Thruway correct and all of NY roads are just like it . Like you said we all try to raise our kids with a certain level respect and responsibilty but I'm sure you are well to aware of the parents who take no actions in "rasing" thier children. That scares me the most because I see it in my neighborhood more and more every year. We have a murder on average one every 2 - 3 years. The most recent was a month ago, one block from our house!! When will ppl learn! Anyways, I enjoyed the "debate"

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Cache me out dammit, I'm in a hurry!

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I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by woof & lulu:
All was not lost tho, because my husband can always use knives in the oil field, and the 1 inch blade one he has, he uses to clean his finger nails (he likes to live dangerously !)

That's too funny, my Father-in-law was telling me about his old timer knife he used to have and would use it to clean his teeth!!! Course he ain't got them no more LMAO!!

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Cache me out dammit, I'm in a hurry!

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I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

September 4, 2003

Wow, on the Niagara Falls topic, I just got this in my weekly watch e-mail

Love Canal Cache Gives a whole timeline about the events at Love Canal. Nothing like trekking through a toxic wasteland looking for trasure. LOL, and I thought knives were dangerous

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Cache me out dammit, I'm in a hurry!

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I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

September 4, 2003

WOW

I think this thread has touched on alot of important topics, none of which I planned of course. We really have a wide range of people here with alot of different views on everything from parenting to tooth cleaning. I want to say that at times I do spout off but I have not really been offended by anyones posts here and hope others haven't been offended by mine. With all the discussion I have come to the conclusion that yes I can place a boxed keychain knife in a semi-hard cache where children are not likely to find it without a parent present.(Still not sure I will place a knife anymore) I understand that not all parents are as responsible as those posting here, but I cannot take on the role of parenting overseer, and will not judge people on the way they raise their children. Some parents will not talk to their children about sex, some will, whole other topic lol. My point is that I was stating my view and as someone who has had at least one knife since I was 5 I didn't view the tiny blade I put in the caches as a dangerous item that some seemed to think it was. Have I cut myself with a pocket knife? yes. Did I learn not to do it again? yes. Have I done other stupid things in my life? yes. Will I do more? God I hope not but probably yes.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

2.7k · September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

quote:
I have owned a knife since I was a very small child.

I think it's a darn shame that things have changed so much since I was a child and a teenager. In highschool, me and all my friends carried pocket knives. Never once did we perform any crime with our knives... well... one of my friends did carve his name and his girlfriends name in a desk. It wasn't unusual for us to have our hunting rifles/shotguns out in our cars and trucks in the school parking lot. I can even remember a science teacher asking if anyone had a knife with a can opener on it when he needed one to help with an experiment the class was performing. I'm not old, I'm only 35 and what I'm describing was less than 20 years-ago.... what has happened to our society when pocket knives are now taboo.... it's a darn shame

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

Dittos

When i was in high school, I sat in the back of several of my classes and sharpened knives. the teachers would give me knives and scissors to sharpen. I carried a bag of stones and used my belt as a razor strop when i got the knives to the point of shaving. I would then test them on my arms and legs.

Nobody said a word about it.

I brought a real .22 pistol to school for sound effects and a prop in my senior class play. (blanks only!) Everyone knew it was a real gun. Only one teacher asked why I didn't use a starter pistol... I said 'I don't own one' and besides they look unrealistic. I was very careful in training the actor who would shoot it to make sure it was pointed straight up when fired so there would not be danger to anyone. (Fortunately, it WAS in the script that way.)

There were no problems and no one got hurt and I'm still alive to tell the tale and I aint never been in jail and I graduated with honors. So there.

Can you imagine that today?

My boy got suspended for drawing a picture of a gun!

IMO we have gone absolutely, totally off the deep end in trying to protect everybody from everybody in every little thing.

For Goodness sake, can't someone take responsibility for hisher self?

If YOUR kids can't be trusted with a hard object, then supervise them closely, but don't expect everyone to melt down all their hard objects into bubblegum for you.

Oh that's another thing! NO BUBBLEGUM IN CACHES!!!

30th H.S. reunion this year. That makes me an old timer I reckon. All i can do is sit around the computer and spin tall tales for the yutes of today. Sure ya did pops.... sure ya did... its ok we believ you... (psst- get the strait jacket)

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

1.4k · September 4, 2003

Sure ya did pops.... sure ya did... its ok we believ you...

Have you been recording my children?

In all seriousness, I carried my kids to a flea market the other day. My son wanted to get a keychain for his house key (okay, I admit it, he's a latch-key kid somedays) that was made out of a .223 round sans the primer and gunpowder, but unfortunately I couldn't buy it for him because I know how 12 year-old boys behave. I knew he would start showing his friends his "cool" bullet keychain and eventually a teacher or administrator would find out and he would get in trouble. Things have changed so much since I graduated high school 17 years-ago. I can't help but wonder what this world, and life in America, will be like when my children have been out of high school for 17 years....

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

2.7k · September 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
(snip) Just as I wouldn't want someone to give my child a knife without me knowing it.

Brian

Agreed.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could make that work in real life.

I have tried to shelter my kids. I have seen many others try. I have seen no one have any real success. (Some parents THINK they have success and get a rude awakening when 'their little Johnny' gets caught with pot, or their little 'angel' has an abortion.)

Undoubtedly there are a few that do succeed. But I doubt that many of those who do, succeed by being extremely protective and strict.

The best success comes with teaching the kid how to properly USE and handle the 'deadly weapons' everyone seems to want to leave lying around, rather than acting like they are some horrible ogres that are out to 'hurt little boys' and 'mustn't touch' (when the kid is 10).

Leaving objects in caches that someone might not want kids to have is definitely a problem for parents. But it is one of the least of the problems. The bigger issues are the other kids and adults that don't care. (Ferinstance, those that will buy cigarettes for any teenager that has a fiver in his hand- or simply give them one.)

There was a time when I knew I could not trust my boy with a knife and I forbade him to have one and took them away whenever I found them. Indiana law says you gotta be 18 to buy a knife (or cigarettes). He had no trouble buying either one.

Once I gave him a couple bucks to go to the local festival. (He was about 10 and certainly did not look over 18) Within minutes, he and his buddy came back with knives. (I took them and lectured them about what to look for in a QUALITY knife. Don't buy me no more JUNK like this, Boy!)

My point is, they'll get whatever it is you don't want them to get unless they learn for themselves not to want it.

The whole issue with knives in caches is the liability of the cachers and website in a litigous society- nothing more.

A kid can get a knife any time anywhere. If you think that keping them out of caches will somehow protect a kid from a knife you are a prime prospect for buying a bridge in NY.

If the kid in ? is likely to get hurt with a knife, heshe is far more likely to get one from hisher own kitchen or find one on the street or be given one by another kid or buy one at your local festival or make one out of a styrofoam cup.

(The styro cup thing was actually told to me by a juvenile prison gaurd. I don't know if I really believe it but it makes a good story.)

Anyway my 2c, so there.

Keep on protecting the kids, but don't get your hopes too high and don't let your gaurd down.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

1.4k · September 4, 2003

or make one out of a styrofoam cup.

It is possible to take a styro cup and melt it to the point of almost burning. Once the styro has cooled you will find that the material is quite hard and firm and can be somewhat sharpened.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

2.7k · September 4, 2003

I regularly go into prisons. Almost always with a bag full of stuff that would make dandy weapons for inmates.

That story came to me when I asked the manager of the Juvy intake why he didn't even ASK if I had any weapons on me.

He said, we really don't worry about people like you bringing in tool bags when these kids can make a deadly knife out of a styrofoam cup.

I thought it was pretty silly to just allow anything in. After all it is much easier to make a deadly knife out of a deadly knife or a screw driver than it is a styro cup.

I don't see how having several weapons is better than having a few weapons. But then again I am a highly trusted person in most places where i go and I generally go around most of their security anyway.

I have learned to put my knife in my tool bag when i go into prisons. Then it is rarely a problem to take it in, but if it is in my pocket, sometimes they ask if I REALLY need it. (Often the answer is yes.)

His point was if they want a weapon they'll get it- and the juvies are often more dangerous than adults.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

1.4k · September 4, 2003

I don't see how having several weapons is better than having a few weapons. But then again I am a highly trusted person in most places where i go and I generally go around most of their security anyway.

Having been in and out of jails on an almost daily basis, I still have to make sure that I don't take any contraband into the facilities. Since I work for the county, I often find myself at municipal facilities to pick-up prisoners that must be transferred to our county facilities (oh the joys of being a patrol deputy). I am sometimes shocked at how lax the security is at some municipal facilities. Often the people that I must pick-up are absolutely shocked to learn that I am going to handcuff them with their hands behind their backs. Not only will our jails (county), we have two county jails in the county where I work, not accept anyone not properly handcuffed, I'm sure as heck not gonna risk getting killed by someone that has decided their freedom is worth more than my life.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

2.7k · September 4, 2003

My county learned the hard way a couple years ago about trusting inmates. The jail matron got raped.

A county jail on the west border of IN has an open door policy.

To get into the control room, you simply go through three unlocked jail doors.

There is a sign on the control room "No inmates allowed". But the door is always unlocked.

This policy was a campaign issue. Apparently the losing candidate kept the doors locked and the public had to ring the doorbell and be buzzed in to see the sheriff. The new sheriff campaigned on the idea that the office should be available to the public- so he opened the whole building.

I have walked through the corridors, through several unlocked doors and out into the courtyard without so much as stopping to be recognized.

The place is unreal.

The really wierd part is there have been no noteworthy (at least no reported) problems. Tick-tock-tick-tock.....

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

2.1k · September 5, 2003

Ok, the jail/prison talk has gotten my attention. I do not understand how places can be so lax. I mean there is a a level that you must reach. You can go above it and require more strict entry, but you can't go below it. If someone did or said some of the things y'all were talking about, they would of been canned. Of course I worked for the state and federal system. Counties and municipalities tend to be a little less strengent on the security issue. I've worked in a state run juvenile boot camp. Since 95% of our guys were only there for 90 days, we didn't have trouble about the weapons thing there. They were more inclined of getting cigarettes somehow or making dice out of toilet paper or making gum out of toilet paper and toothpaste.

The fed prison was however different. Max security. WE had weapons made out of everything imaginable. Drugs, yep even had a drug ring being run out of the priosn. Of course it was found out and a group of people outside the prison were busted. The couple of guys inside running it, received a little more time. Even had some officers that apparantly were bringing in some stuff too. That's the shocker. Just when you are working with someone and you would never think they would do a sort of thing, wham, they are gone for it.

As I am getting ready to enter the world of working, I sit and look at the requirements for some jobs. I don't want to go back into Law Enforcement/Corrections and have been looking at some other jobs. The funny thing is that you meet some of the requirements of the job, but people think that because you were a correctional officer and didn't do that exact job they are referring to, that you don't have any of the experience. Like managing people. Ok , a job requires you to manage 5-10 people, half of which you won't see every day. Hmmm...lets see I managed at a minimum of 128 people a day in a dormitory by myself. I managed to keep them orderly. I managed to get them up at 6 am, to go to their rooms for lockdown at 5 times a day. To clean the dormitory, to get up and make their bed and clean their cell. I managed 10 different tv's for all of them. I managed their use of cleaning supplies, the handing out of other supplies like toilet paper. I managed to tap every bar in the dorm with a rubber mallet, I amnaged to shake down at least 5 cells a day completely (helps in geocaching!). I managed to search for hooch and other contraband throughout the dormitory. I managed to hand out mail daily to 128 inmates in an orederly and timely manner. I managed to not only keep an eye out on my dorm, but on the outside of it during movements and shake down inmates on a random basis. I managed to conduct investigations on a daily basis. Have I or can I manage people? lol All mine were known convicted felons. They are known to make things hard to do. This wasn't from a response to a job, but I have seen it before. People do not think about what it's like for a correctional officer or law enforcement officer. A lot of people look down on correctional officers. They use to call them prison guards. They broke out of that shell and have become a higher class of professional, except some of those y'all mentioned.

I was talking to a guy on the phone yesterday about a Loss Prevention job in an upscale store. He asked men if I've done commercial/retail loss prevention before. No. Have I've done investigations before. Um yeah, I've worked in Law Enforcement and Corrections my whole career. He asks if we did any investigations in the prisons. Told him it was all a big investigation. Investigating was a daily thing. Surveillance was a daily thing. If you didn't do that, then the prison would not function smoothly. None the less I have a formal interview or in the words he put it, "get together and talk". If the pay is halfway decent, then I will take it.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

1.4k · September 5, 2003

If the pay is halfway decent, then I will take it

Good luck with the job interview! Let us know how it goes.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
I'm not old, I'm only 35 and what I'm describing was less than 20 years-ago.... what has happened to our society when pocket knives are now taboo.... it's a darn shame

Well I'm 37 (respect your elders, youngin' )and I can remember expicitly the rule of no knives on school property. I guess it comes down to your geographic location and how such things are viewed in the community. Look at life 50 years ago and how it has changed, something's for the better and others not so good. During the mid 50's we as americans were a bunch of cocky bastards. Nothing could happen here, life is good, nothing bad can happen and the economy was strong. What happened to those days? Who do you blame? You can't blame society, unfortunately, since we are all a member of it so we are all to blame. You can't blame government, who put them there...we did. Sorry getting a bit off topic. I still don't know in good conscience if I could let my kid walk around town with a pocket knife on him.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Cache me out dammit, I'm in a hurry!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

2.1k · September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

Good luck with the job interview! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks. Was just checking on the price of daycare around here. It's 3 times as much as we paid down south. We were paying like $75 a week down there, here they want $250+ a week. I don't see how some people can afford to even go to work around here. The housing is high, rent is high for sure. I was figuring that if they even paid $10-12 /hour, which I will be lucky if they do, then after taxes and all, I will be looking at maybe $400-500 a month after daycare. Geez! It's not even worth the trouble for that little bit. That's not including my gas either as it's a 45 minute drive at least. So htere goes about half of it on gas...lol

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 5, 2003

Wow after reading all the posts, took me 2 days at work. I hate when they interupt my slacking. I can only say 1 thing, when I was young, I played with knives, heck I even played with lawn darts (also illegal now) I also played with matches. Almost burned down my friends house. But that was just stupidity. None the less, all these hazards that I went through, the dangerous items were available from....MY HOUSE. I didnt have to find a cache. I didnt have to go to walmart and spend a buck or 2. I went into our cabinets.

The Fact is if a kid wants to do something stupid they will. GC.com posting what they did is only to cover their own butt from parents that don't wish to accept the responsiblity of not educating their own kids, and teaching them responsibility.

I bought a GPS. Now I get lost with style.

September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dream Alchemist:
Wow after reading all the posts, took me 2 days at work. I hate when they interupt my slacking. I can only say 1 thing, when I was young, I played with knives, heck I even played with lawn darts (also illegal now) I also played with matches. Almost burned down my friends house. But that was just stupidity. None the less, all these hazards that I went through, the dangerous items were available from....MY HOUSE. I didnt have to find a cache. I didnt have to go to walmart and spend a buck or 2. I went into our cabinets.

I bought a GPS. Now I get lost with style.

You've touched a good point, unfortunately most children's unfavorable behavior comes from the adults they live with (drugs/smoking/etc...) IMO society is jumping through hoops to protect children because parents aren't doing their part. The fact that so many people on here have put in the $0.02 on this subject, (I think I'm up to $1.36 personally so far) shows that we are the ones looking out our children, and other peoples too. But it seems to me that when we go to extremes to help other kids (which I'm not saying is bad) we are enablers for those parents who aren't doing thier part to slack off.

While walking with my daughter last night, we walked along the road, and I was thinking, how I'd like to protect/shelter her, but I do need to allow her to expirience supervised danger, and yes walking along the side of the road is dangerous. I was there to make sure she wasn't running out infront of cars. If parents would take the resposibility for teaching their children. They would teach their children how to do things in a safe manner AND how to be responsible!

My final point is this: I'm responsible for my children, I do not want the responsibilty of someone else's child thrust on me because thier parents refuse to accept thier responsibility!

September 5, 2003

Dang, Sorry to sound like I'm running for public office

September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Romad_Pilot:

My final point is this: I'm responsible for my children, I do not want the responsibilty of someone else's child thrust on me because thier parents refuse to accept thier responsibility!

And, if I may add...I certainly don't want a governmental committee-of-the-least-common- denominator telling me how I have to raise my child because someone else's parents refuse to accept their responsibility!

In this context, I'm thinking of the folks who make up and post public park rules....

ApK

2.7k · September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

Good luck with the job interview! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks. Was just checking on the price of daycare around here. It's 3 times as much as we paid down south. We were paying like $75 a week down there, here they want $250+ a week. I don't see how some people can afford to even go to work around here. The housing is high, rent is high for sure. I was figuring that if they even paid $10-12 /hour, which I will be lucky if they do, then after taxes and all, I will be looking at maybe $400-500 a month after daycare. Geez! It's not even worth the trouble for that little bit. That's not including my gas either as it's a 45 minute drive at least. So htere goes about half of it on gas...lol

Brian

_As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump_

Welcome to MA

Why, of all places, would you move from the South to MA?

Only solution to the daycare problem is one or tother of ya stay home till kids are old enough to latchkey.

I doubt you'll survive in taxachuttes without a good exec type job paying at least $50k- and that's probably poverty level. Best thing to do in MA is get on the dole (or so I've heard- probably southern and conservative prejudice)

Good luck! (seriously- not meant sarcastically)

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

OBTW the juvy place I mentioned (styro knife) is State.

September 5, 2003

I live in NH not in taxachuttes, but we feel your pain. The price for houses up here and daycare are increditable. I wish you luck on finding a job that will let you both work and pay for daycare. ON to the orginal subject, many of you have made interesting points, should I be responisible for your children, the answer is no. Should I try to not to do things that would endanger someone else's child, the answer is yes. Should the parents be the ones held responsible if their child gets injuried, hell yes. We all have views on what is dangerous and what is not, I don't fear heights so walking close to a edge of something does not scare me, therefore is not dangerous to me. To someone who hates heights they may get nervous and fall, was it my fault he was following me? Some see any sharpe edge to be dangerous, I really only see something with over a 6" blade to be dangerous, but I have been brought up with knives and now collect them. You should see my 16" Bowie, now thats a knife. I was using these lil ones as a sort of sig item without really thinking I was leaving something dangerous for the public, I mean you'd have to work at it to really damage yourself. Since this thread started I have left no other knives in caches. I still like the idea about the gift cert someone suggested earlier, gonna go see if my local shops carry em.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

2.1k · September 5, 2003

Moved here for a job (wife) ...she's the bread winner. The doctor she worked for down south sold out and she was making way too much more than the normal around there. She makes over 70k here as it is. We found someone that does child care in their home, thier licensed, for a a good bit less, but still about twice as much as we paid before down south. Got another call today for an interview at Harvard. Still after daycare costs, it's not going to be a whole lot. I don't see how can afford to even have kids here, much less, live on the lower salaries. I though the salaries were going to be a lot higher, but it doesn't seem to be that way all around.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 5, 2003

With your wife being the "bread winner" then you maybe should stay home and raise the kids. You could be their role model and show them right from wrong rather then letting someone you do not know teach them. The early years are very important and if they have a "full time parent" around it would mean they share your values. Once they are old enough to be latchkey kids you could get a job to offset the hours you'd be bored at home. Either way it obviously your choice, but my opinion is kids do better when they are raised with a full time parent if at all possible.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

September 5, 2003

Yes the last post was way off topic, but an important issue that many people are facing today. I know many single people trying to keep their heads above water with the raising cost of housing and daycare, so flame me if you want but pray you are never in their shoes.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

2.7k · September 5, 2003

Total dittos.

Not really very much off topic since the topic is "child unfriendly".

Although the "role reversal" might be a little hard on you, your kids will genuinely benefit from a stay at home parent.

One of the things I see so often in church camp is that kids rarely spend time with their parents- even in the best of families. The problem is TERRIBLE with the over 50% that are in single parent homes.

In a typical camp week, I'll spend more quality time (I hate that expression- any time when you aren't fighting or abusing, spent one-on-one with a kid is QUALITY time!), with each kid than most of them spend with their parent(s) in a year.

Wouldn't it be really cool for that amount of time and influence to come from someone who shares YOUR world view? How about YOU? Who could be better?

Also, if you consider the pure economics of it, day care, meals out, commuting expenses... you might find you are working for minimum wage or less.

I am WELL aware that sometimes that minimum wage or less is the difference between making it and not, but if you can manage without the pittence, all-in-all you will be better off.

Also, it has been my experience that housework suffers, we tended to eat out more often, and there was a HORRIBLE guilt trip when the boy called the sitter "Mommy".

Stay at home is not for everybody, but it is certainly enhances the "child friendliness" of the family. (How do you like that for tying an off-topic post back to the original subject?)

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best. Your children are worth whatever it takes and only you have the right to decide what that means.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

September 5, 2003

ChurchCampDave stated "Stay at home is not for everybody, but it is certainly enhances the "child friendliness" of the family. (How do you like that for tying an off-topic post back to the original subject?)" Good one and it almost works lol. I know a few stay at home dads and yes they even do house work. It seems their children are much more well adjusted then the others in their class. I also know a few single parents who have no other choice then to place their children in day care, are they depriving their children? I'd say hell no they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. If the other parent doesn't provide support, which I have also seen, then they have to make certain decisions like do we eat tonight or should I stay home. So to just make my postion clear if you have a 2 parent family I do believe one should stay at home and raise the children if at all possible, if you are single and raising a child do whatever it takes to raise them right.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

1.8k · September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ChurchCampDave:

One of the things I see so often in church camp...

I have to ask ... Is church camp anything like 'band camp'? If so, those kids are out of control.

2.7k · September 5, 2003

My heart goes out to the single parents. There are far too many of them and they ALWAYS have a rough road.

With very rare exception, a single parent has NO CHOICE in these matters. Not to mention the fact that a child needs BOTH male and female role models. That is why God designed the family to have 2 people (of opposite sex) raising the children.

I have seen some single parents do absolutely wonderfully at raising their kids despite these and many other overwhelming obstacles.

Sadly though, they are the rare exception.

Being a single parent is something that sometimes happens to the best, but if at all possible, the most "child friendly" thing we, as parents, can do is stay together as a MARRIED couple and make the kids a VERY HIGH priority on our time schedules. That includes possibly sacrificing some monetary things that we think we deserve and oughta have.

God grant me the grace to be able to practice what I preach!

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

September 5, 2003

While I agree with most of what you say I have a few exceptions, also off topic, but since child is in the topic name here goes. You stated " That is why God designed the family to have 2 people (of opposite sex) raising the children". I have not raised religon in this forum and do not think it is an area we should be discussing, the 1 Billion buddists might disagree with your thoughts on the subject of family or not, but I do not think this is an area to explore those differences. you also stated

"Being a single parent is something that sometimes happens to the best, but if at all possible, the most "child friendly" thing we, as parents, can do is stay together as a

MARRIED couple.

The at all possible I agree with, but if there is abuse in the family, either phycial or emotional then it is far better for the couple to split up then to subject the child to years of yelling hitting or simply being ingorned.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:
I don't think it is children objecting to the knives...they are adults wanting to impose their hang-ups on others and _using_ the topic of "children" to hide behind.

BINGO!

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

September 5, 2003

W00T back on topic!!!

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

2.7k · September 5, 2003

quote:
if there is abuse in the family, either phycial or emotional then it is far better for the couple to split up then to subject the child to years of yelling hitting or simply being ingorned.

Absolutely!

Divorce is not the end of the world. It is certainly better than violence. The family violence cycle ultimately ends in death if not broken at some point.

My comments are regarding the BEST. The best can't always (some would say, rarely) be achieved.

As to religion in my posts:

What does it mean "I have not raised religion in this forum?" Is there a rule that says you are the only one who can "raise" a topic? Honestly, I don't understand.

Kahlil Gibran (hope I spelled it even close) (He was NOT a Christian) said: "Who can separate his life, saying this for God and this for man?"

God spoke on the subject of families (which He created and ordained) and I simply relayed the message.

God called me to preach. I will not apologize for presenting His facts or using His name occasionally in my posts.

1 billion buddists and a handful of Moslems are certainly welcome to disagree but I expect them to gracious enough to grant me the freedom to express my views that they take for granted.

I never said they had to agree.

Because I used God's name, does that make my statement somehow LESS true?

Whether I say it, God says it Buddah says it, Allah says it, Confucious says it, or even if Bill Clinton says it. Truth is truth.

Truth should be evaluated objectively not based on religiophobia or worse yet, religious bigotry.

I would not want to be the one to tell God He is not welcome here.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

September 5, 2003

WOW you really took my post the wrong way, a little defensive are you. I simply said this forum is not a place to discuss religon. Do you really care what my views on god are, do we want to discuss them here in a geocache forum. Let me tell you my views, I can since I am writeing this. I don't care what anyone's religion is here on this site, I will not argue over who's god is best or worst, or weather I believe at all. This is a topic for a very different forum then geocaching and should not be included here unless you start your own thread called something like "God and Geocaching". I've seen and read alot of your posts and agree with some and not on others, so we will discuss them there not here.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

1.4k · September 5, 2003

quote:
Xitron wrote:
I simply said this forum is not a place to discuss religon.

Amen to that.

*****

September 5, 2003

Amen to that??

Smacks the crap out of Jomarac5

I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah blah blah

1.4k · September 5, 2003

Smacks the crap out of Jomarac5????

Right.

*****

2.7k · September 5, 2003

Roger that.

It IS hard to separate isn't it?

In God we trust, all others pay cache.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

Child Unfriendly?

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