Child Unfriendly?

September 1, 2003

" Those items, knives' and matches would come in handy if you get lost. "

Getting lost? While carrying a GPS? just kidding LMAO!!

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

September 1, 2003

Giving up this activity because we have to be responsible? Don't understand that?

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
....I wouldn't want to have to answer as to why someone got stabbed or cut, or why something burned down because I irresponsibly left something that anyone could get.

_

Do you want to go to that conclusion, because if you do, we may as well just give up this activity.

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Rocket Pack:
Giving up this activity because we have to be responsible? Don't understand that?

Well, we are talking about two forms of "responsability" IMO.

The one that normal people use, like using common sense, which would include things like leaving small knives.

And then the "lawyer" form which means we are to be blamed for anything that goes wrong that can, in any way, be connected to us. If we allow the latter to prevail, no activity will be viable.

[This message was edited by SamLowrey on September 01, 2003 at 09:04 AM.]

September 1, 2003

Ahh yes taking it to the extreme side. Yes no matter what you do someone will find fault..gotcha!!

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

2.1k · September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

Do you want to go to that conclusion, because if you do, we may as well just give up this activity.

No it's a common sense thing as you latter stated. First of all, gc.com states that those items are not to be placed in caches. It's to protect their butts, because someone who isn't responsible will do it and have done it. There are reasons for them to have those rules or guidelines.

Secondly, it's a matter of my own personal feelings. If I placed an item like those that are classified and intended to cause damage, destruction, life or limb, then I would be not legally responsible, but morally responsible as well for what ever happens if someone carelessly takes it or not. I think it goes along with the concerns of others about adult oriented things. If a kid gets something that they should have, are you contributing to the delinquency of a minor? After all you willingly left something that they could get without taking any precautions. Might as well leave some ammo and a gun in some caches. Someone that hunts or target practices could use them. What would happen if a kid came across that? Is there a difference? Responsibilty is the key.

I can see the issue from both sides, really I can. But to protect the game and others out there, it's better to use sound judgement and look at those items which can be construed as causing damage, destruction, bodily harm or life.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 1, 2003

I must weigh in on this one.

Being an alum of a national fraternity, we have an idea called risk management. The idea goes something like, we cannot eliminate risk, but we can manage how much risk there is.

For this example, matches and knives in urban and sub-urban areas, not a good idea. Mirrors, matches, solar blanket, knives in a rural difficult area, okay idea.

Like it was mentioned before, common sense is a great gift, use it. I would hope and believe that as more caches are placed and more people search for them, that a system of identifying what the appropriate level of trade items can be used. I am way to new to substantiate my last comment, but it seems like a good idea to me. One other thought, is there a kiddiegeocaching.com?

September 1, 2003

Originally posted by Cooter13:

Mirrors, matches, solar blanket, knives in a rural difficult area, okay idea.

I still disagree with leaving any kind of knife or matches in any location. If you are knowingly going caching in a rural area, the common sense part here, bring these items with you. Someone had mentioned earlier about keeping an eye on thier kids and censoring them to protect them. I'm not worried about the geocaching community locating such items, more the ppl who just happened to find the cache or the new rage, the cache pirate who finds the cache and steals everything. Whose to say if there were a pack of matches they wouldn't start a nice fire as a trademark. My opinion stands no kinives or matches in a cache.

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

2.5k · September 1, 2003

Here's a thought. We're supposed to be a family activity, right? If you're going to leave something like a knife, do it in a hard cache (read that as four stars or harder), where little kids certainly won't be, and not in places around where little kids can find the cache..

Okay, so your knives are in boxes. A kid pockets one when an adult doesn't see and takes it to school, opens it on the playground. Big problems for the kids.

If a cache owner has told you not to put a knife in their cache, respect that. You would take off muddy shoes in someone's house if they asked wouldn't you?

The best way to make a rule for something like this is all or nothing because there will always be an idiot that says "Well, it's only half an inch bigger so it's fine" and then the next idiot has one a tiny bit bigger than the one before and then the rule is broken all the time.

September 1, 2003

Concede to point, I stand corrected.

After last summer and this one, forest fires are a problem. I guess I would be more inclined to take the benefit of the doubt and think that people think before acting. I am guilty as charged for not thinking before acting. Please excuse the newbie for a mistake.

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:
Well, we are talking about two forms of "responsability" IMO.

The one that normal people use, like using common sense, which would include things like leaving small knives.

And then the "lawyer" form which means we are to be blamed for anything that goes wrong that can, in any way, be connected to us. If we allow the latter to prevail, no activity will be viable.

Having carried a pocket knife since I was 5, I can't understand what the big deal here is. This used to be common thing, is it really dangerous NOW?

And worrying about prison crews finding a knife in a cache when there are dozens of different jagged pieces of metal they're handling that can be used as knives or shivs or other weapons? Can't quite grasp that either. Typically people cleaning up are in community service as their sentence and NOT jailed. Yes, people in medium/low security facilities are sometimes used for these jobs, and typically the only problem encountered is that somebody just...walks off. If they can just walk away from their duties, why is somebody worried about them finding a pocket knife? Can't they just walk off to a store, something far more common than a geocache? Do we outlaw stores to prevent this diabolical thing from occurring?

It's like I've fallen asleep and awakened on Saturn.

--------------------

You have the right to defend yourself, even when geocaching!

2.1k · September 1, 2003

McKee it all depends on where you are and the agency in which is in control of the prisoners. Some places, have trustee inmates doing, some have low/medium security inmates. I worked for one state prison in Georgia, that housed everything from medium to close/max. Some of them were used in details outside the prison. I think the prison issue is not a big of a deal, unless it is in a place that uses them and they have a fear of something happening.

I think the bigger deal has to do with responsibility. Yes, like you stated you carried a knife since you were 5. But many others haven't and many other parents won't let them. Especially now. So yes it is really dangerous now. Every little bit helps. Officers that have responded to calls involving instances with kids with knives, or medical personnel who have had kids in the emeregency room with kids cut, and firemen who have responded to fires, will say that every little bit of control of those items, especially out of the hands of those who are careless helps. Also, it does not give you the right to place a knife in the hands of a child. Which is what is happening when you purposfully place it in a cache in the woods and they stumble across it. IT may of not been meant for you, but i'm sure once GC gets contacted about it and see who logged it as placing it there, that fingers will be pointed...

Just act responsibly. If there is a question of harm, then no.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

1.3k · September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

I think the bigger deal has to do with responsibility. Yes, like you stated you carried a knife since you were 5. But many others haven't and many other parents won't let them.

[sNIP][/sNIP]

Just act responsibly.

I agree with McKee. I have owned a knife since I was a very small child. Quite a few people I know have also. The danger doesn't lie so much in the knife - but in the fear of a useful tool which results in overprotection. Your child can drown with a single cup of water (ok, choke to death - and yes that's a stretch) - do you have the water cut off? A more relevent question is - do you have every dangerous item in your house totally out of the reach of childrens hands? I doubt most people do.

I think being responsible means educating your children about things they will encounter in the real world. What home doesn't have kitchen knives?

This arguement, however, is rather pointless. Geocaching.com states that caches with knives or other 'dangerous' items will not be approved. Don't put those items in the caches. If you find one and you disapprove - remove the item. The disclaimer is mostly here for their liability. I don't feel that it's some sort of moral issue.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

2.1k · September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:

I think being responsible means educating your children about things they will encounter in the real world. What home doesn't have kitchen knives?

It's one thing to educate your own, but you can not rely on other children to be educated on these matters. You would think that kids are educated on dangerous things like knives and even guns. But it happens every day and you can't stop it. I can tell from vast experience in weapons training that even older people (adults) are not educated in these things. I think it all depends in your upbringing and your surroundings. We all would like to think that others are taught the way we were, but realistically they aren't.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
I can tell from vast experience in weapons training that even older people (adults) are not educated in these things. I think it all depends in your upbringing and your surroundings. We all would like to think that others are taught the way we were, but realistically they aren't.

Sadly, you're right. As am I. Somewhere between my teenage years and my thirties, I ended up on Saturn. I prefer my old home world.....

--------------------

You have the right to defend yourself, even when geocaching!

September 1, 2003

What about placing a disclaimer in the logbook? Then, if someone does find a knife, then the maker should be protected from any lawsuites, etc.

I also want to say that I think that the government is trying to over moderate our lives. As many people know, you can sue just about anyone over just about anything and probably win in this country. Personally, I think knives/multitools are a great idea. Many hikers have atleast 1, often times more than 1. Same thing with matches/lighters. I also think that, to protect our game, we need to take the necessary steps to protect it. Therefore, I think that no one should place a knife or anything that the land owners/law enforcement could consider dangerous.

September 1, 2003

It is unfortunate that, as Americans, we have grown into the mentality that it is somebody else’s fault for our own action or inaction. For the sake of the pursuit I will abide by the “rules” (using quotes to imply a loose set of guidelines) in placing trade items. The “rules” are there for a specific purpose of protecting the participants.

For an example, the death of Lane Frost (a professional bull rider), prompted the riders to start wearing protective vests, and some helmets. Another example is NASCAR, after the death of Dale Earnhardt, NASCAR mandated full-face helmets and the HANS device to be worn by the drivers. Is either of the above-mentioned sports any worse off having had a change to the rules to protect the participants? Some will argue that it does, others it does not, however, most newcomers question why the safety features were not implemented sooner. As with any and all sports, evolution continues and, in many cases, causes the sport to evolve into a safer endeavourer for all participants.

See the happy moron

He doesn't give a da**

I wish I were a moron

My God, perhaps I am

Author Unkown

4.1k · September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
McKee it all depends on where you are and the agency in which is in control of the prisoners. Some places, have trustee inmates doing, some have low/medium security inmates. I worked for one state prison in Georgia, that housed everything from medium to close/max. Some of them were used in details outside the prison. I think the prison issue is not a big of a deal, unless it is in a place that uses them and they have a fear of something happening.

I think the bigger deal has to do with responsibility. Yes, like you stated you carried a knife since you were 5. But many others haven't and many other parents won't let them. Especially now. So yes it is really dangerous now. Every little bit helps. Officers that have responded to calls involving instances with kids with knives, or medical personnel who have had kids in the emeregency room with kids cut, and firemen who have responded to fires, will say that every little bit of control of those items, especially out of the hands of those who are careless helps. Also, it does not give you the right to place a knife in the hands of a child. Which is what is happening when you purposfully place it in a cache in the woods and they stumble across it. IT may of not been meant for you, but i'm sure once GC gets contacted about it and see who logged it as placing it there, that fingers will be pointed...

Just act responsibly. If there is a question of harm, then no.

Brian

_As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump_

I hate to be the bearer of bad news Woodster, but every little bit of control doesn't help do anything but take away more freedoms of the American people. As Benjiman Franklin said 'Those who give up freedom for security have neither.'

One of the first rules of venturing into the wilds of America is be prepared. If you're unarmed, no knife, no canteen, no food, no matches, then you are an accident waiting to happen.

If the knife is really more dangerous now, then it's time to ban steak knives in the home!

Having said that, if you're going to play the game at least follow the rules. There are plenty of things to put in caches other than contraband.

THERE is ONE way around the knife ban and that is to put a gift certificate (for a knife) from a local sporting goods store in the cache. Nice and simple!

John

*******************************************************

Human beings can always be counted on to assert with vigor their God-given right to be stupid.--Dean Koontz

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
. . .As far as the argument of whats in a cache, I will say this. I am a father (12yr old son/2 yr old daughter). My initial concerns on finding a cache is removing. Like from hollow logs, unders logs, admist rocks and etc. I have concern of snakes, animals, and insects being in there and possibly biting them, as I have concern of myself getting bitten as well. I've tought my 12 yr old on how to check first to be safe and how to carefully remove something. The same goes with opening too. We've found spiders and other insects inside of caches. So there is some concern on even opening them. A parent is going to have to take the responsibility of their own child. If they want to let the kid go and grab a cache and open it, then that's their responsibility. As far as what is inside of them, again that is the responsibilty of the parent to censor their kid. . .

You sound like you're bein' a good dad. Just watch your language. "Responsibility" is now considered a dirty word.

2.1k · September 1, 2003

Don't get me wrong, knives and multitools and all the other things are great tools to have, when used properly. Unfortunately there are those out there that make the simple freedoms we don't think about, go astray. I think it all depends on the location of the caches. I mean if you are in an urban or suburban area then they are not good ideas at all. I can think of half a dozen sites that were near schools that I visited. Some you had to park at to get to the cache. Those are not good areas for caches of that nature. Even those that are near neighborhoods are not good places. The certificate for the knife thing is a great idea. I actually thought of that in my earlier post but forgot to even mention it.

This reminds me of ole' Nudecacher. I remember the hostilities against him. What if someone decided to start putting adult type of video tapes in the caches as trade items. What would people say? Many would say, I don't want to see anything like that in caches, that's disgusting. What if a kid sees it? They could use the argument about a parent should educate their children on nudity and sex. Does that sound right? LOL I bet not!Some won't have a problem with it, many more will. I imagine some that are for knives in caches will be against nudity in them. What is more dangerous? Remember the latest outrage, condoms in caches. "They are so disgusting. I don't want to have to tell my child what they are and etc..."

There ae many sides to the argument and arguments. I sit on the wall of many of them. I've learned from my past work experience of Law Enforcement/Corrections/Military, which are all deeply set within rules, laws and orders. There are things that I thought were stupid, but they end up there for reasons. Not because of the everyday joeschmoe, but because of dumb a$$es out there. It's a lot easier to put a blanket on things and say no. Then you have things that happen that require such things to be made certain ways. Mainly to protect the innocent. Sometimes it restrains and hurts the innocent as well. The thing about the government and the talk about them taking the freedoms away, well the government isn't just one person or a small group that stays there all their life. They are elected in. So the majority must similarly. Especially on those that are re-elected. If you feel your freedoms are being taken away, then I urge that you try to educate others into making wiser decisions before electing someone. Or even better, run for a position yourself and make the changes that you feel are important.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

2.1k · September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by M15a4spr:
You sound like you're bein' a good dad. Just watch your language. "Responsibility" is now considered a dirty word.

For sure!

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 1, 2003

MPE!!!

Responsiblity for one's own actions has become a dirty word. For what I have seen, geocachers are responsible, however, there are "rules". See Plaque for 1st Cache. In this discussion there are descriptions of things that were placed that are no longer considered prudent.

See the happy moron

He doesn't give a da**

I wish I were a moron

My God, perhaps I am

Author Unkown

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
.

.

.

The thing about the government and the talk about them taking the freedoms away, well the government isn't just one person or a small group that stays there all their life. They are elected in.

.

.

.

Point of order: that is the way it was until the creation of bureaucracies. Unelected people in the IRS, EPA, etc, can take away your possessions without due process which gives them more power than elected officials.

2.1k · September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

Point of order: that is the way it was until the creation of bureaucracies. Unelected people in the IRS, EPA, etc, can take away your possessions without due process which gives them more power than elected officials.

LOL...they don't make up their own laws and rules. Their structure and boundaries were set and are set by those in those nice offices overlooking the scenic Potomac.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
.

.

.

Just act responsibly. If there is a question of harm, then no.

Ya know, these sorts of general statements are the problem. For one, who is advocating irresponsible behavior? Second, "if there is a question of harm" leads me back to my point that the conclusion of that concept is giving up the activity.

I know you all think I am splitting hairs, but I see huge avoidable problems looming because of a failure to properly define the issues. The best way I can illustrate this is the issue of the 2nd Amendment - which actually dovetails with this nicely because it, like most topics, eventually leads to the real topic which is power.

Defenders of the 2nd Amendment have painted themselves into a corner because they wanted to take the "easy" route of making the issue about hunting. Doing so meant it was only a matter of time before one of the major tenets of the Constitution will become irrelevant and the very government prohibited by the Constitution will become more of a reality. The Second Amendment has to do with the civilian population being a check on the government, just as there were many checks built in. But the spineless country club branch of conservatives worried too much about being liked and thought that position was not warm and fuzzy enough (and we all know the Founding Fathers were always willing to throw principle down the drain in favor of being considered "cool" by their peers....right? ) so they tried (and still managed to fail) to identify with the common man by defining the issue around hunting. Well, as fewer and fewer people hunt, where does that lead? And with Chuck Schumaker and other anti-gunners now handed the weapon of judging every gun by whether it is "needed" for hunting....again, you see the issue.

So, if you want to say "If there is a question of harm, then no" then you may as well say "Geocaching: no" because that is where it will lead.

September 1, 2003

I am not so sure that bringing in the debate of the 2nd Amendment is pertinent to this discussion, however, your point of “…judging …by whether it is ‘needed” or not, is valid. Is geocaching needed? Does it provide for a need of the population? Philosophical questions at least, profound thinking amongst the group, definitely.

The original question being, paraphrased, are knives considered a responsible trade item? As discussed at length, there are pros and cons for the argument, but as a consensus, it appears that knives are not considered responsible items of trade. The reverse is true, McToys, are not considered responsible items of trade, so an impasse has been reached, or has it.

See the happy moron

He doesn't give a da**

I wish I were a moron

My God, perhaps I am

Author Unkown

September 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:
Apparently this policy was put into effect because some land manager was afraid prison help (apparently picking up litter or clearing brush) would accidentally find a knife and do something bad with it.

George

Lets add No toothbrushes, silverware, pieces of plastic, sharp sticks, pens, pencils, CDs or batteries (it you tape enough of these together, it can electrocute a guard)

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

1.8k · September 2, 2003

The Geocaching FAQ that Bill D referenced in the second message in this thread probably pertains to the cache's initial contents (this question comes right after ''How do I hide a cache?'' and ''What is usually in a cache?'')

The Guide to Making a Cache also (obviously) refers to a cache's initial contents.

My wild speculation is that Groundspeak Inc.'s listing of these prohibited items is in large part to protect itself from any liability for approving caches with items that Groundspeak knows could cause harm. Because it is unlikely that any reasonable court would find Groundspeak liable for something that a finder left in a cache, I don't think Groundspeak is as worried about this aspect.

I personally have left knives in appropriate caches (read: not on a school playground), and am likely to continue to do so. But, to protect Groundspeak from liability, I also won't log them as blatantly as ''took a golf ball, left a cheap dollar store Swiss Army Knife''. Probably ''took a golf ball, left something else,'' or 'TNLN' or something innocuous like that.

Good thing there aren't any glass bottles out there in the woods.

WWJD? JW RTFM.

2.1k · September 2, 2003

Bottom line is that GC says no knives. So no knives.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 2, 2003

I had to make a maintenance trip to a cache of mine reciently because of this log I saw:

1st cache of the day, solo again. Bushwhacked in and still found it in good time. Great hiding place. Coords about 6' different. Took Globe Keychain and Toothbrush. Left Beanie Baby Kitty, Ditty Bag, and a Razor/Box cutter knife.

This cache is 1.5 stars and clearly describes the kids playground. I e-mailed the person and they said they thought this would be good for someone who hikes in the woods. I don't think that kind of person would be hiking behind the kids playground. I know my kids get excited when they find a cache and if they saw a dollar at the bottom, nothing would stop them from digging down to grab it. Imagine doing that when you didn't notice the box cutter stuffed in the cache.

Some things are lost, some left behind.

Some things are better left for someone else to find.

2.1k · September 2, 2003

Yep, plenty of boxes to open while hiking. Especially near the playground. lol

Those are even worse than a knife.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

38.2k · September 2, 2003

quote:
In one case, an entire county has banned caches in its parks because of a knife found in a cache.

I recall that. There was a ban on "weapons" in the park and a pen knife was termed a "weapon" by park officials. There is also a picnic area in that park. Do they ban steak and butter knives? I doubt it.

Until the recent PC madness took hold, nobody considered a pen knife or swiss army knife to be a weapon. I was able to get into the US Senate gallery and on to airplanes (pre 9/11) with one. And as a child, I brought one to school every day.

I realize that GC.COM has to say the PC thing and ban "knives". But do they also ban Leatherman type multi tools? The blade on my Leatherman is longer than the blade on my swiss army knife and can do a lot more damage, but that's OK under the rules. Realistically, what is the difference between a swiss army knife and a Leatherman tool other than the name?

We're not talking about putting freakin' switchblades in caches here.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 2, 2003

If your deathly afraid of a multi-tool or small swiss army knife, stay in your home and lock the doors. If more paranoid hyper protective do-gooders would do this we could let natural selection take over! If GC.com told you to only use a magic marker because a sharp pencil or pen could be a weapon, would you start replacing all the pens and pencils with markers? For crying out loud, let this whining stop!

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Romad_Pilot:
If your deathly afraid of a multi-tool or small swiss army knife, stay in your home and lock the doors. If more paranoid hyper protective do-gooders would do this we could let natural selection take over! If GC.com told you to only use a magic marker because a sharp pencil or pen could be a weapon, would you start replacing all the pens and pencils with markers? For crying out loud, let this whining stop!

Hmmm, rules are put in place for a reason and I don't consider voicing an opinion whining thank you very much :-). I think the concern is not everyone is "deathly afraid" of the small knives, rather who could find them. My point was was young children (including teens) accendentally finding a cache and possibly harming themselves or others. I for one will be on the lookout in caches for items that have been deemed inapropriate and will REMOVE them and log the item was removed. That is my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

8.4k · September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Romad_Pilot:
If your deathly afraid of a multi-tool or small swiss army knife, stay in your home and lock the doors. If more paranoid hyper protective do-gooders would do this we could let natural selection take over! If GC.com told you to only use a magic marker because a sharp pencil or pen could be a weapon, would you start replacing all the pens and pencils with markers? For crying out loud, let this whining stop!

Lol GOOD ONE! Maybe you shouldn't do that night cache you're plannin, because some parent will keep their kid out too far past their bedtime and they will get all cranky the next day.

I saw a quote that said: "Any fool can make a rule and every fool will follow it."

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Rocket Pack:

-Snip-

I for one will be on the lookout in caches for items that have been deemed inapropriate and will REMOVE them and log the item was removed. That is my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

Maybe you and those who feel the same as you should get with TPTB, maybe you can be a GeoSheriff. Having the burden of looking out for the stupidity of others is a noble task, by all means press on!

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Romad_Pilot:

quote:
Originally posted by The Rocket Pack:

-Snip-

I for one will be on the lookout in caches for items that have been deemed inapropriate and will REMOVE them and log the item was removed. That is my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

Maybe you and those who feel the same as you should get with TPTB, maybe you can be a GeoSheriff. Having the burden of looking out for the stupidity of others is a noble task, by all means press on!

Well lord knows there is enough stupidity to go around and it's no burden just a common sense responsibility. Course I am just a newbie city boy, what the heck do I know

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

4.1k · September 2, 2003

Once again...

If you find an item that you feel is contraband TRADE it out and then do with it whatever you feel is appropiate!!

This is so simple.

John

*******************************************************

Human beings can always be counted on to assert with vigor their God-given right to be stupid.--Dean Koontz

38.2k · September 2, 2003

quote:
If you find an item that you feel is contraband TRADE it out and then do with it whatever you feel is appropiate!!

Absolutely! I found a cigar in a cache not long ago. I confiscated it and to make sure it wasn't tampered with, I sparked it up on the way back to the car. I will also be confiscating any swiss army knives, P-38's or Leatherman tools I find.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders):
Once again...

If you find an item that you feel is contraband TRADE it out and then do with it whatever you feel is appropiate!!

This is so simple.

John

*******************************************************

Human beings can always be counted on to assert with vigor their God-given right to be stupid.--Dean Koontz

THANK YOU!! Finally someone put it in plain simple english!! Couldn't have said it better.

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

September 2, 2003

Absolutely! I found a cigar in a cache not long ago. I confiscated it and to make sure it wasn't tampered with, I sparked it up on the way back to the car. I will also be confiscating any swiss army knives, P-38's or Leatherman tools I find.

LOL, checking it for tampering huh...sure you were LMAO!!

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

8.4k · September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
I will also be confiscating any swiss army knives, P-38's or Leatherman tools I find.

Brian,

I know we are not allowed to talk about guns, but I will pay $10 for every P-38 that is confiscated and shipped to me.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

September 2, 2003

P-38 is a can opener usually in C-rations. A highly covetted item, but not worth $10!

September 2, 2003

And getting back to topic, there is nothing wrong with an individual TRADING for something they feel is not appropriate for a cache. But just removing them is not the same thing.

A majority of the time people log with TNLN, this signals to me that the items are not the goal of caching.

8.4k · September 2, 2003

Forgot about that one...duh...The Walther P38 is what I was talking about. A little less child friendly.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

September 2, 2003

Snoogans,

I might of had to out bid you if it were that form of P38. I'd pay the $10 AND the cost of shipping

1.4k · September 2, 2003

quote:
I have owned a knife since I was a very small child.

I think it's a darn shame that things have changed so much since I was a child and a teenager. In highschool, me and all my friends carried pocket knives. Never once did we perform any crime with our knives... well... one of my friends did carve his name and his girlfriends name in a desk. It wasn't unusual for us to have our hunting rifles/shotguns out in our cars and trucks in the school parking lot. I can even remember a science teacher asking if anyone had a knife with a can opener on it when he needed one to help with an experiment the class was performing. I'm not old, I'm only 35 and what I'm describing was less than 20 years-ago.... what has happened to our society when pocket knives are now taboo.... it's a darn shame

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

8.4k · September 2, 2003

$12 + shipping...

awdefkhfbegjhbdgdsfvgdflkgjhev dafvealkjbfgepiughb eqrh dcpifb Fifteen! lkgjnbaef;jnbefg;kljngads Fifteen?

Going once....................

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

September 2, 2003

Wow I've missed a whole day of of this discussion, well I copied and pasted some of the thoughts below and what I my answers are to them.

The website does state no knives. The page that states it is plainly available and suggested for reading, as well there are many threads on the message board that happen frequently of people posting links to the faq's, guidelines and etc.

The web sites main page states "Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal." No Mention of Knives

"Secondly, it's a matter of my own personal feelings. If I placed an item like those that

are classified and intended to cause damage, destruction, life or limb"

If you can hack off a linb with a less then one inch blade you're a heck of a lot braver then I am.

Officers that have responded to calls involving instances with kids with knives, or medical personnel who have had kids in the emeregency room with kids cut, and firemen who have responded to fires, will say that every little bit of control of those items,especially outof the hands of those who are careless helps.

Is total control a good thing?

This arguement, however, is rather pointless. Geocaching.com states that caches with knives

or other 'dangerous' items will not be approved. Don't put those items in the caches. If you find one and you disapprove - remove the item. The disclaimer is mostly here for their liability. I don't feel that it's some sort of moral issue. Again I state the offical gc.com

main web page states "Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal". Thats the main page not a faq

THERE is ONE way around the knife ban and that is to put a gift certificate (for a knife)

from a local sporting goods store in the cache. Nice and simple!

I auctually like this idea and may take it up as a sig item thx!

I for one will be on the lookout in caches for items that have been deemed inapropriate and

will REMOVE them and log the item was removed. That is my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

Sweet that means I can start removing all the items I disapprove of, McToys, cheap stickers,

little jars of bubbles, and anything else I don't like. Thanks man you rock!

September 2, 2003

quote:
A majority of the time people log with TNLN, this signals to me that the items are not the goal of caching.

I look more forward to just finding the cache and then anything inside is a bonus but not my primary goal. Spending time with the kids in the outdoors enjoying nature is the absolute primary goal.

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Xitron:

Sweet that means I can start removing all the items I disapprove of, McToys, cheap stickers,

little jars of bubbles, and anything else I don't like. Thanks man you rock!

Read it again, items deemed inapropriate (by GC.com) not just cause I think it's junk. If there is a knife in a cache I will remove it, no doubt about it. I will try to contact the owner and give them the option of picking it up of they want it back. You have a good idea with leaving the gift cert. instead of the actual item. Very cool idea!!

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

Child Unfriendly?

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