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Geo-Court


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I just drove in from Vegas yesterday (600 miles)and don't think I'm up for another 250 miles.

 

If any of you live near Mt. Shasta (Weed) and can spare a few minutes the court time is 8:15 tomorrow morning.

 

I'd like to know if that 150' no-trespassing zone was in any way marked.

 

Hopefully they'll let the guy off with a warning.

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Extract:

 

This is hopefully a one part, one day only cache. Come and give your support for your fellow GEO-CACHER. You can only log this if you come and we will know you are there. Time: you must be in the door at 8:15 a.m. Scheduled time for court is 8:30 a.m.

the Date is May 3rd. This court hearing is about what happened with Tunnel Vision 1909. (GC1A1C) where the cache was placed on railroad property. The cache was blown up by the (BOMB SQUAD) and Hillwilly is charged with trespassing and vandalism--found out you can't be within 150 feet of a railroad...... ...Hopefully see you there in support. Thanks..... Happy Trails to You Di

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

I'd like to know if that 150' no-trespassing zone was in any way marked.


 

I'm not sure the 150' is the really important part of the story. Looking at an aerial photo of the former cache location shows that it was within a few meters of the track, and less than 20 meters from the entrance to a tunnel. I'm sure the relative safety of the location is part of the railroad's motivation in pursuing the case. A cache at, say, 41° 3.102' N 85° 10.494' W would probably not garner the same sort of attention, because it's on the other side of a chain-link fence from the railroad right-of-way and inside a city park, even though it is probably within 150' of a small switchyard (This park is a great place to watch trains from. icon_smile.gif )

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

I'd like to know if that 150' no-trespassing zone was in any way marked.


 

I'm not sure the 150' is the really important part of the story. Looking at an aerial photo of the former cache location shows that it was within a few meters of the track, and less than 20 meters from the entrance to a tunnel. I'm sure the relative safety of the location is part of the railroad's motivation in pursuing the case. A cache at, say, 41° 3.102' N 85° 10.494' W would probably not garner the same sort of attention, because it's on the other side of a chain-link fence from the railroad right-of-way and inside a city park, even though it is probably within 150' of a small switchyard (This park is a great place to watch trains from. icon_smile.gif )

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

I'm not sure the 150' is the really important part of the story.


 

I think you're right. Another point here: If I remember correctly, someone (presumably the cache owner) had spray painted something on the side of the tunnel entrance, so I imagine that is where both charges stem from, not the cache, per se.

 

Anyone know for sure?

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by WaldenRun:

I expect most states have a law like thehttp://www.rrc.state.tx.us/divisions/rail/gxtresp.html. If so, this guy is busted. -WR


 

The one in Indiana has lots of exceptions, but none apply to geocachers:

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title8/ar3/ch15.html#IC8-3-15-3

 

However, I can't find anything so clear-cut for California. That's not to say the law doesn't exist, but if it does it's hard to find.

 

warm.gif

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Over the years I have done a lot of photography on railroad property. Like so many other things, it is a matter of asking for permission. In Arizona it is against the law to "unlawfully" be in the railroad right away. That doesn't mean that it is always illegal to be there.

 

My experience with asking for permission to be near the tracks to take pictures has always been very good.

 

Scott

Team My Blue Heaven

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ok ... there is no legal right of way that is standard for railways. there are tons of housed in Cleveland 15 feet or less away from the tracks in the ghetto.

 

Secondly dont give somebody a hard time for placing a cache near a rail road tunnel. I for one think that is a great idea.. tunnels are cool and i realize how the uneducated could construe our activities but.. all they have to do is ask. I have been to 2 caches in nevada that were near RR tunnels. they were sweet. just becasue people go off half cocked in light of recent events (read 9.11) doesnt mean we should change the way we go about things.

do recent events mean we shouldnt hide ammo boxes in urban areas? NO do recent events mean that we should not take kiddies cachingto find ammo boxes? NO

 

Secondly there is such thing as knowing and willful violation of the law. this geocacher with the cache thats going to court... what are the odds that he knew about this legal bull____ that says you cant come within X distance of our tracks. rofl. come on write the kids tickets who cross tracks on the street too? uh huh. Chances are the RR has AT BEST put up a sign every several miles stating their position or property rights.. but come on. do we even need to get into the rights of that industries land aquisition methods? hell that is only their land on paper... it was land grabbed probably more thant 100 years ago when rail had hugungous ginormous lobby power.. stolen right out from under the feet of the people who owned it since way before 1492. but i digress.... what is rail anyway? i mean look at the state of that industry in this country.. its pitiful compaired to other EU countries with .25 our GDP Their lawyers should be busy saving their 401k rather than chasing our butts down and into court. In fact I would LOVE to know the rail road company who has decided NOT to drop charges... I know several folks and Santa Fe and Conrail I would love to tell em this story.. as i know with out a doubt the will laugh their butts off! and who knows maybe make a phone call.

 

<-T 3 a |/| B a || d i T 0->

S [] U T |-| 3 U < |_ i D [] |-| | []

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It looks to me like the judge went WAY overboard. This was over kill. Obviously the judge wasn't interested in justice, unless of course this is typical of the sentances handed down to teens who get caught scrawling graphiti all over public buildings and trains. So far as the placement of the cache goes, probably not the wisest idea, especially given the things going on at the time, but it clearly was harmless, and to punish the placer so harshly because of the paranoia of the authorities (even if the paranoia was rightly held) is extreme and unjust. I say get a lawyer and appeal.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

thats why i only do country cache sites icon_eek.gif


 

Have you been paying attention at all, or do you just have some kind of agenda you're trying to push at the cost of rational conversation?

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

thats why i only do country cache sites icon_eek.gif


 

Have you been paying attention at all, or do you just have some kind of agenda you're trying to push at the cost of rational conversation?

 

warm.gif

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IMHO, the judge was out to set an example. I don't see what grounds hizhonor had to suspend the D/L for a year (no moving violation).

 

Here in MD, rangers are out confiscating many caches that do not have prior permission to be hidden on State Park property. There was no real problem until 9-11 AND someone happened upon an ammo can next the C&O canal, about 5 miles from The White House. They called US Park police, FBI, etc... The authorities DO NOT have a problem with geocaching as long as the know what, where and why and in a clear container.

 

Army surplus stuff makes for a great cache box, but if the container had been clear or of a non military nature, our Geocaching friends might be in a different predicament now.

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Evidently, Oregon has one of the most toughest railroad trespass laws in the nation. Found this on researching - >>On October 23, 1999, the penalty for trespassing on railroad property in Oregon was increased from a Class C misdemeanor to a Class A misdemeanor. Formerly, trespassing was punishable by a fine up to $1000 fine and 30 days in jail. Now one risks a $5000 fine and one year in jail.<<

 

The legislator that sponsored the bill said

"Enhancing the penalty from a Class C to a Class A misdemeanor gives the law "needed muscle." The Oregon Railroad Association submitted "In recent years, the number of fatalities and injuries to trespassers on railroad property has been climbing to unheard of levels..." ; "it will also make a stronger case for local law enforcement and judges to want to enforce laws governing a growing, serious problem. It will add weight, particularly among youth, to the threat of citation or arrest rather than repeated warnings for railroad trespass." And further, "...people seem not to realize that railroad property is private property, and put themselves at risk illegally trespassing."

 

The stats on death and injury on rail lines due to trespassing is really astounding. So...maybe the sentence wasn't so harsh after all.

 

BUT, I REALLY want to know how they knew who placed the cache. Doesn't that concern anyone else but me?

 

Lara

 

RedShoes.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by laraley:

BUT, I REALLY want to know how they knew who placed the cache. Doesn't that concern anyone else but me?

 


 

Maybe they looked up "Hillwilly" in the local phone book!? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Could be that they searched for the geo-location on the site to email the owner? And then got personal info when he emailed back???

 

I doubt they got the info from inside the cache though...they blew it up icon_eek.gif and why blow it up if ya gonna open it first? hehehe

 

Maybe Hillwilly will read this thread and let us know how they nabbed him! icon_biggrin.gif

 

Kris

 

=============

 

If life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice into a watergun and shoot other people in the eyes.

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quote:
Originally posted by laraley:

BUT, I REALLY want to know how they knew who placed the cache. Doesn't that concern anyone else but me?

 


 

Maybe they looked up "Hillwilly" in the local phone book!? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Could be that they searched for the geo-location on the site to email the owner? And then got personal info when he emailed back???

 

I doubt they got the info from inside the cache though...they blew it up icon_eek.gif and why blow it up if ya gonna open it first? hehehe

 

Maybe Hillwilly will read this thread and let us know how they nabbed him! icon_biggrin.gif

 

Kris

 

=============

 

If life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice into a watergun and shoot other people in the eyes.

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quote:
Originally posted by laraley:

 

The stats on death and injury on rail lines due to trespassing is really astounding. So...maybe the sentence wasn't so harsh after all.

 


 

What are the stats?

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

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quote:
Originally posted by laraley:

Evidently, Oregon has one of the most toughest railroad trespass laws in the nation.


 

Not to be a nitpicker, but i think the cache in question was in California.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

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This story chills me to the bone. It's not just the privacy issues (how did they find him?). This got me to thinking. How do we know once we place a cache that some bizzarre misfortune won't happen to the cache itself or to the cache seekers or to the property we have placed it on? We don't. The way they punished this guy was simply uncalled for. One day you're just enjoying life and the next day - BAM! You're a criminal. Getting jacked up for breaking a law you didn't know existed. This game isn't worth a criminal record. The fine alone would've pushed me into a bankruptcy. Then add in the license suspension and you've got the recipe for a ruined life. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm pulling my caches as soon as I can.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

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I think the guy got pretty much what he deserved. He vandalized (the gold paint) and he trespassed. The first is a given, ya just don't do that. And the second, well I've known since I was a kid putting pennies on tracks that trespassing on railroad property was a no-no.

 

Paranoia can run deep if you let it. Heck, just because your ran that red light and delayed that guy trying to get his wife to the hospital, you could be liable for her having a miscarriage, etc., etc.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

And you're thinking they opened the cache to read it, then closed the cache back up again so they could blow it to smithereens? icon_eek.gif


 

Err... no. I'm thinking maybe they gathered up all those little bits of paper that were fluttering around after they detonated the thing so maybe they could find the person behind it. It's not like they obliterate these things when they "blow them up"; my understanding of the process is that they attach a blasting cap to it and set that off, on the assumption that it will set off any unstable explosives that might be in there. When there aren't any unstable explosives in there, there are probably lots of decent-sized pieces left over.

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

And you're thinking they opened the cache to read it, then closed the cache back up again so they could blow it to smithereens? icon_eek.gif


 

Err... no. I'm thinking maybe they gathered up all those little bits of paper that were fluttering around after they detonated the thing so maybe they could find the person behind it. It's not like they obliterate these things when they "blow them up"; my understanding of the process is that they attach a blasting cap to it and set that off, on the assumption that it will set off any unstable explosives that might be in there. When there aren't any unstable explosives in there, there are probably lots of decent-sized pieces left over.

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

He has posted a reply on the GeoCourt webpage should you wish to get his thoughts on the subject. It will explain how he was caught.


 

Went through it twice. Didn't see how he got caught. Just said that the railroad engineers saw a couple hiding the cache back after a find, then called the cops who called the bombsquad and FBI, then the FBI went to their home... How did they find their home?

 

Yeah, I guess contact information could have been in the cache. Yeah, someone who REALLY wanted to find me could, fairly easily from the info in my caches.

 

Maybe they used "Echelon". Hmmm...

 

Big brother is watching.... icon_eek.gif

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

He has posted a reply on the GeoCourt webpage should you wish to get his thoughts on the subject. It will explain how he was caught.


 

Went through it twice. Didn't see how he got caught. Just said that the railroad engineers saw a couple hiding the cache back after a find, then called the cops who called the bombsquad and FBI, then the FBI went to their home... How did they find their home?

 

Yeah, I guess contact information could have been in the cache. Yeah, someone who REALLY wanted to find me could, fairly easily from the info in my caches.

 

Maybe they used "Echelon". Hmmm...

 

Big brother is watching.... icon_eek.gif

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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