geocache in business?

[Guest AprilSharkey]

I peruse these postings for new ideas for my caches, but have never seen anybody place a cache in a business. My idea and I have tentatively arranged with the proprietor of a local coffee shop (i.e. Starbucks), is to keep a small can under the counter that is labeled as a geocache. Inside the can, I have a puzzle (150 piece puzzle I spray painted white, and I used paint pens to draw information on it). A geocacher must find the building using coordinates posted on geocaching.com. They will ask for the container, and put the puzzle together. I have a rather elaborate scheme of authentication to prove the geocacher completed the puzzle that I won?t go into here.

 

The coffee shop owner is receptive to the idea, as he will get a couple of geocachers in the shop a week asking for the geocache container. They will probably order a Cappuccino etc, while sitting at a table solving the puzzle. I would of course indicate on the Geocaching page the business hours of the shop, and projected time to complete the challenge so nobody arrives close to closing time. (and not have time to put together the puzzle)

 

I don?t have anything against outdoor caches, but right now in Wisconsin it is very cold, and I have noticed an appreciable decline in geocaching activity. With this cache, geocachers can still partake in a challenging hunt, and stay warm.

 

Comments? Suggestions? Criticism?

 

Thanks in Advance,

 

AprilSharkey

 

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[Guest welch]

well, if you hide it someone will find it, but i cant say that a lot of cachers will. myself i wouldnt i dont like hanging out in stores much less coffee in itself.

im not sure exspecting cacher to buy anything is a good idea...

most go geocaching because they enjoy the journey threw the woods/fields not hang out in coffee shops, if you like coffee, do that after you hike 12miles looking for half a dozen caches

[Guest kbraband]

There was a rather long discussion last summer following a scheme like the one you describe. In the end, Jeremy decided to take those caches offline because they are considered commercial caches.

[Guest TreasureSeekers]

That is an awsome idea, it is cold here in virginia and i think i might do somthing like that here if you dont mind me barrowing your idea. i have alot of starbucks friends and it would be a great way to network also.

 

Treasure seeker

 

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TreasureSeekers

Manassas, Virginia USA

"True power comes from ones ability to move from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm" - Winston Churchill

[Guest T-storm]

I thought that the coffee shop one that foundered so badly before was simply coords to a coffee shop enjoyed by the "hiders"? I thought that the biggest problem with it was that there was no physical cache to find and so it was nothing more than a listing for my favorite coffee shop, restaurant, bookstore, boutique, etc. business. I would not care to see such caches pop up all around. However, I find this one more interesting. Find the coffee shop (make it more fun... don't tell them it's a coffee shop and imagine them going into the business next door asking "Where's the cache?"), ask for the cache, work a puzzle. Coffee I find simply okay, but maybe a cappuccino or a latte with a slice of pie or cheesecake for dessert one evening while working a puzzle (I love jigsaws!)? Now that I might enjoy!

 

I suggest you pitch the idea to Jeremy to see what he says. Worst that can happen is that he says he finds it too commercial and denies it.

 

Good Luck,

 

T-storm

 

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http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[Guest Choberiba]

I just might be in the minority here, but I like this. It's pretty far over on the commercial side of the equation, but many people in the winter suffer from cabin fever.

 

This sounds like an excuse to get out, much like geocaching in general.

 

150 pieces should take about as long as a single cup of coffee, so the "fee" if any, would less than most of us spend on gas for a cache hunt.

 

Winter in the Bay Area is a great time to hunt caches (rain-rain-go-away-so-I-can-go-outside-and-play) but not everyone has a mild climate to play in.

[Guest Ranz]

I have traditionally been opposed to caches to businesses for reasons stated by many on this board. This one however might have potential. While I wouldn?t say I am ?on board? with it right now I think that it can do no harm to explore it in a little more depth. Maybe run a test cache or two and see how it flies with the caching community.

 

My 2p

 

[Guest glenn95630]

Check this cache page out. The log for Dec 11 has a photo of the cache.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=9999

I have not visited the cache. It appears to be a restaurant, and the cache allows the hider a secure way to share a special trip/event/heritage(?)with other geocachers. The cache appears to include 'many beautiful items brought back from Indonesia'.

 

My opinion of the original post on this thread: I like jigsaw puzzles. I like geocaches that require the use of a GPS unit. From the description AprilSharkey posted, it sounded like all the finder would have to do is assemble the puzzle. I would like this idea better if the assembled puzzle was a map or had some coordinates that led the finder to a 'traditional' cache.

glenn95630

[Guest Mopar]

quote:

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Originally posted by glenn95630:

I would like this idea better if the assembled puzzle was a map or had some coordinates that led the finder to a 'traditional' cache.

glenn95630

---

Still not too sure about the commercial aspect of it, but this idea I love. Those that don't want to brave the cold, can sit and sip their grande mocha latte, and those of us that do, get a more challenging conventional cache.

[Guest Kimrobin]

I know there is one planned in England that is a multi-pub cache.

 

You find the first pub, buy a beer and the barman gives to you co-ords for the next pub, and so on.

 

I'll give that one a go.

 

Alex.

[Guest Choberiba]

[multi-pub cache]

 

Don't cache and drive

[Guest Markwell]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kimrobin:

You find the first pub, buy a beer and the barman gives to you co-ords for the next pub, and so on.

---

 

Ah, but the difference here is, you have to buy a beer. No one says I have to buy a coffee in the Starbucks (I HATE coffee).

 

Still - I don't think this is too offensive of an idea. The cache is not specifically set up solely to sell the coffee or make people go to that come to that establishment. I'd still like to see the completed puzzle lead people to another cache location.

 

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Markwell

My Geocache Page

Non omnes vagi perditi sunt

[Guest gmaxis]

quote:

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Originally posted by Markwell:

Ah, but the difference here is, you have to buy a beer. No one says I have to buy a coffee in the Starbucks (I HATE coffee).

---

 

Hey, you could always go for a nice tall glass of iced tea!

 

The idea has potential and even promotes local businesses--it doesn't have to be Starbucks. It could be a nice little cafe tucked inside a small town or even coffee shop with a great view of the mountains or a busy street. I would do this one even if I'm not a regular coffee drinker. A frapuccino every now and then wouldn't hurt.

[Guest AprilSharkey]

Actually, the location is a small coffee shop in a small town that is the Mom and Pop version of Starbucks. I just used Starbucks as an example so everybody would get the idea.

I have toyed with the idea of making this a multicache, with another puzzle (coordinates) leading to another coffee shop, or cache location easily accessed in snowbound Wisconsin. Have not dropped the idea entirely. The possibilities are endless, and I just threw out the basic conceptual idea to get feedback. I appreciate everybody?s comments. I will give this a go in one form or another.

 

Best regards, AprilSharkey

 

 

 

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[Guest Markwell]

Make it very southern Wisconsin (south of N42° ), a nice cafe and you've got yourself a winner.

 

BTW - can't do image links in a signature.

 

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Markwell

My Geocache Page

Non omnes vagi perditi sunt

[Guest nickgenes]

I remember reading on these boards that there is a geocache in a deli, somewhere in the midwest. Or maybe a 7-11. I seem to recall it was just sitting on a shelf, or in the fridge. The owner was ok with it.

 

I guess I like this idea. I've been playing around with USAPhotoMaps -- which seems to be the best free arial photo tool -- and you easily identify certain parts of large buildings by their coordinates.

 

It might be fun, with the winter weather, to give an opportunity for some indoor caches. You could hide something in a library, for instance, and even though the GPS doesn't work inside, they would know it's in the southwest corner...

 

... but not which floor...

 

Eh. But then why use the GPS at all? It's more like urban orienteering.

 

Nick

[Guest nlazarus]

I have to admit intially I viewed this a just another variation of a commercial cache, but after reading some of the other posts I have changed my mind. You don't have to buy anything from the merchant to log this cache, the merchaant is not the one who posted the cahce, and the shop merely serves as a location for the cache much in the same way as a park. I live in Florida, but if I lived in a winter climate I'd find this as a geat alternative, especially when the cabin fever sets in.

[Guest Ramness570]

I like it! Make it part of a multi cache! Have to put the puzzle together to get the clue to the next location.

 

For a multi cache i just did I was going to make one of the stops going into a department store and figure out how many times you would have to walk around the main aisle of store to walk a mile. Then use that number to get to the final location.

 

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Brian & TabascoX

Senior Member Southeast Xterra Club

Geocaching since October 2000.

[Guest TTracker]

There is a cache inside a store here in Michigan. There's no pressure to buy anything and it does keep the cache out of the snow. From the logs it seems everyone approves of the location.

[+Lizzy]

So I guess my idea of a log-only cache at the top of a climbing wall would'nt fly (cause you'd have to pay to climb it)?...

[+wandererrob]

I think this would fall under the heading of "commercial" caches and would not be likely to get approved.

[+CW Iams]

Talk about rejuvenating an old thread! :-) 12/31/01 to 9/15/05... :-)

[+pcsenn]

A friend of mine placed a log sheet in plain open view on a bulletin board at the front entrance in a 24/7 grocery store. It was not easy to find... It eventually was muggled.

Edited September 15, 2005 by pcsenn

[jrk53]

Using a Vehicle cache tag in a business?:

I have had this idea for awhile and I had to order a new vehicle tag SO i ordered an extra one. Since they are magnetic I am thinking of affixing it to the freezer nearest to & facing the door, in amongst the other stuff stuck there so it's not blatant but is easy. . I have a farm meat store but am obviously not ALWAYS open so thinking this would be scan-able thru the door if we are closed. I have several caches on our farm and in town so it would just be along the route. Thinking it might expose the store to some people that don't think of stopping. What do you think are the CONs? the PROs will take care of themselves.

[geoawareUSA9]

1 hour ago, jrk53 said:

Using a Vehicle cache tag in a business?:

 

If, by "vehicle cache tag" you mean a trackable, then sure, that's fine. Once you've paid for a trackable, it's yours to do with as you wish.

 

If you mean you want to have a geocache inside a business, that is typically not allowed under the guidelines on commercial content without permission from Groundspeak. (Which may involve some consideration paid to Groundspeak for the promotion your business is getting.)

[+TeamRabbitRun]

23 hours ago, jrk53 said:

Thinking it might expose the store to some people that don't think of stopping.

 

Adding to what geoawareUSA9 said, this is the 'CON' you were asking for.

 

One of the absolutely basic, fundamental principles of geocaching is the idea that this is a non-commercial, non-agenda hobby.

 

NO tie-ins with any business, period. If this rule (not guideline!) were ignored, then as with everything else in the world, the hobby would be quickly taken over by every business and issue-group imaginable. Virtually all of eBay is commercial; wasn't intended that way. Same with Facebook; wasn't intended that way.

 

Caches co-located with businesses are not allowed unless it can be shown that the cache in no way adds to the goals of the business and couldn't enhance their bottom-line.

 

(Parenthetically (see the parentheses?), same goes for 'agenda-issues' but we're only talking about businesses here.)

 

Every CO is responsible for following this rule when he, she or they create a cache, and Reviewers are responsible for policing it prior to approval. The only exceptions to this rule are the occasional commercial tie-ins and partnerships entered into by Groundspeak itself, but it's their sandbox.

 

My point is that since you stated that a purpose for having a cache in your store is to attract business, and that intent just might be a reason for a reviewer to disallow your cache placement. Please do not take this as a suggestion that you don't mention that part when you submit for approval, rather that you take the spirit of the rule into account in the interests of maintaining the 'hobby' aspects of this hobby and simply don't do this. 

[Keystone]

On 12/30/2001 at 3:35 PM, Guest kbraband said:

There was a rather long discussion last summer following a scheme like the one you describe. In the end, Jeremy decided to take those caches offline because they are considered commercial caches.

 

Readers of this bumped thread are advised to ignore all the posts from before yesterday's bump, except for the one I quoted.  This is good evidence that the "no commercial caches" guideline has been in effect since pretty much the beginning of geocaching.  A better job is done today vs. the early days in terms of not publishing caches inside businesses in the first place, and in archiving non-compliant, non-grandfathered caches inside businesses when the true nature of the cache hunt comes to the attention of Geocaching HQ or a Community Volunteer Reviewer.

[+Korichnovui]

In 2018 I found a cache that was inside a business:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC7RBPZ_simply-charming-in-rockaway-beach?guid=91ff09ea-0125-41c5-999d-784cccb6bbd1

I have to admit that it was kinda weird that I was roped in to the shop to get the cache.

 

In my early days I wanted to hide a cache near a restaurant I liked, as an homage to the restaurant. The reviewer rejected it for having an agenda. Seems fair. I support the rule that caches do not have an agenda.

[+Oxford Stone]

Last year I did a puzzle cache in South Wales that is behind the counter of a shop ( a chain, not an independent, for what it's worth) and there's a multi in Belgium that's behind the bar of, well, a bar. But the CO (is he also the bar owner?) pays for your drink.

[Keystone]

9 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

In 2018 I found a cache that was inside a business:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC7RBPZ_simply-charming-in-rockaway-beach?guid=91ff09ea-0125-41c5-999d-784cccb6bbd1

I have to admit that it was kinda weird that I was roped in to the shop to get the cache.

 

What the CO told the Reviewer before publication:  "the cache is in a public space and the container is in the open for easy access to premium members."

 

Had the CO been more transparent when describing their cache's location, it would not have been published in that form.

[+CheekyBrit]

On 9/15/2005 at 9:46 AM, Lizzy said:

So I guess my idea of a log-only cache at the top of a climbing wall would'nt fly (cause you'd have to pay to climb it)?...

I've been wanting to do that at either of the climbing walls I've worked at and it is a NO since they are businesses and physical geocaches cannot be inside businesses.
I had a cool climbing hold I'd hollowed out and installed a magnet to - it stuck to the brand of screw-in t-nuts we use at the wall. I had a cord connected and threaded through the back of the wall to the access panel. In the test runs People climb up and get to this hold in a bare spot in between 2 anchors at the top, pull gently and it comes off in their hand and down to the ground revealing the cache inside next to the magnet (all flush so it sits flat on the wall). Then at the access panel, the cord could be pulled to reset the climbing hold. It spun around and was in a different orientation each time but it stuck and worked. But it was not allowed.

We can go inside businesses for non physical stages EG: events.
https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=781 makes it sound like no physical or virtual stage of a non-event cache can be in a business, though it doesn't explicitly state it:
 

Geocaching is primarily an outdoor activity, but in some cases you can hide geocaches indoors.

• You must get permission from the building owner or manager.
• Players must be able to find the cache without interacting with staff in the building.
• Indoor caches cannot have commercial overtones or be inside a business.
• Indoor caches can never be traditional caches.
• Indoor caches must follow the GPS rule below.

I wonder if virtual stages of a multi cache could be reasoned. I doubt it, but you could run the idea past your reviewer.

[Keystone]

10 hours ago, CheekyBrit said:

... makes it sound like no physical or virtual stage of a non-event cache can be in a business, though it doesn't explicitly state it...

 

You quoted the "indoor caches" guidance, which applies to physical caches with stages in libraries, non-profit museums, etc.  It is also helpful to read the "commercial caches" guidance in the Help Center.  There, as in the Geocache Hiding Guidelines themselves, it's clearly stated that no geocache will be published if there is a suggestion or requirement to enter a business, interact with an employee, or purchase a product or service.

 

There should be no need to "run the idea past your reviewer" since the guidance is quite clear.  Also, you are responding to a question from 2005,

[+CheekyBrit]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:40 AM, Keystone said:

Also, you are responding to a question from 2005,

That is very 'on brand' for me. My music taste, news updates, etc tends to lag behind everyone else. Did you know there are phones with more than one camera now!

 

Edit: The wife and I discovered this thing called a microwave. It's gonna revolutionize our cooking game.

One day I'll catch up.

Edited February 9, 2023 by CheekyBrit