Illegal items in a Cache

[Abba_Shiloh]

I read in one of the reports of a find that someone had placed the feather of a red tail hawk in a GeoCache. I thought that I might point out that possession of this item is worth several hundred dollars in fines and possibly a night in the local jail in all states, but especially in NC. One feather is considered illegal. You might want to reconsider such an item in a geocache.

Just though y'all might want to know. Dont get caught with this in your possession.

Abba Shiloh.

[+Planet]

You're kidding! Even if the bird drops the feather while cleaning itself or something? I can absolutley see how it's illegal and even unethical and immoral and just plain mean to pluck the bird yourself but what if you find the feather on the trail? I'd like to see that law as it was written.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

[+Planet]

You're kidding! Even if the bird drops the feather while cleaning itself or something? I can absolutley see how it's illegal and even unethical and immoral and just plain mean to pluck the bird yourself but what if you find the feather on the trail? I'd like to see that law as it was written.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

[Abba_Shiloh]

The Wayah Ranger office in Franklin, NC is my source of information. There are no provisions for how the feather was obtained. They say the "the bird dropped the feather" is the favorite excuse for all those caught in possesion.

There was a group of Native Americans (cherokee) in Swain county that opposed this law based on the fact that it was needed for religious reasons to an Indian Shaman. The item is yet unsettled.

The Ranger also said that this is true of all birds of prey in NC. You can call any NC wildlife Commision office for any further clarification or a copy of the ordinance.

 

Abba Shilo

[+Criminal]

I once found red tail hawk feather covered in cocaine in the barrel of a fully automatic Uzi sub machine gun, but hey, finders - keepers.

 

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

Throw your jelly out the window; let the dog-gone shack burn down.

**Huddie Ledbetter**

[+Criminal]

I once found red tail hawk feather covered in cocaine in the barrel of a fully automatic Uzi sub machine gun, but hey, finders - keepers.

 

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

If your house catches afire, and there aint no water around,

Throw your jelly out the window; let the dog-gone shack burn down.

**Huddie Ledbetter**

[+CYBret]

Remember when this was big news a few years ago? I found a website that recorded most of the details about collecting bird feathers:

 

quote:

---

 

In 1995, an Illinois woman learned this rule the hard way after making a dream catcher for Hillary Clinton. The US Fish and Wildlife Service raided her home, but finally accepted her explanation that she had found an eagle feather in a zoo and hadn’t known that holding such a feather carried penalties of up to $100,000 or one year in jail. Native Americans now receive their eagle feathers from a federal program in Denver that manages this threatened bird. The feathers dangling from dreamcatchers in gift shops around the country actually come from domesticated turkeys and chickens.

---

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44

[magellan315]

Any law that fails to take into account how a bird feather was obtained is a law that needs to be rewritten.

Laws like this were created to stop poaching, but failed to take into account the average law abiding citizen.

[ManaUser]

Still, it's probably better to leave the feather just outside the cache. It could have just fallen there, right?]

[+Rebel]

When I read about the lady with the zoo feather, I asked a ranger friend of mine to explain. Her explanation was twofold.

 

1) There's no way for the F&W to really know that any particular feather was found on the ground or plucked from a hunted carcass.

 

2) The illegality of merely having the feathers dramatically reduces the demand for art objects incorporating them.

 

I read an article, can't find it right now, about a family that was displaying a headress with eagle feathers in it that had been obtained by one of their ancestors. When word got out, the gov't confiscated the family heirloom.

 

Illegal is illegal. Leave 'em on the ground. Better yet, take a waypoint and direct authorities to the feather.

 

-----------

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

[+Alan2]

Hey. I'm from da Bronx. I wouldn't know an eagle feather from a turkey gurgle.

 

How would you know the feather ya picked up wasn't a partridge or a horsefeather?

 

ALan

[+Alan2]

Hey. I'm from da Bronx. I wouldn't know an eagle feather from a turkey gurgle.

 

How would you know the feather ya picked up wasn't a partridge or a horsefeather?

 

ALan

[+Rebel]

Bein' as y'all rest yer ackin' feets in de Bronx up in Yankeeland, I'speck y'all mayhaps be civvered in Gutter Falcon feathahs.

 

Now where'd I put the grits? Dang!

 

-----------

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

[Cholo]

Years ago I lived in Arizona, where roadrunners are abundant. I decided to catch one by his long tail feathers. Wham!!! A big fridge fell out of the sky and flattened me. Beep...beep!

[+Renegade Knight]

There was a post ealier that coverd it well. But it's not obviouse that a feather is illeagal because we are all not trained feather observers. "That is the pinion feather of a pink spotted blue warbler and is illeagal" "Gee officer I thought it was just a feather".

 

My rule is simple. If I (or my kids more likely) find a cool feather. Great. I'm not going to sweat it. If the feather is attached enough bird remains to identify the bird as clearly a bird of prey. I don't mess with it.

[river ranger]

... migratory birds. it is illegal to possess birds in part or whole (excepting game birds in season), dead or alive without state AND federal permits. so before you pick up that road kill waxwing... we won't EVEN get into possession of reptiles and amphibians!

 

having to do what the voices in my GPSr tell me to do...

[river ranger]

... migratory birds. it is illegal to possess birds in part or whole (excepting game birds in season), dead or alive without state AND federal permits. so before you pick up that road kill waxwing... we won't EVEN get into possession of reptiles and amphibians!

 

having to do what the voices in my GPSr tell me to do...

[jdege]

"The illegality of merely having the feathers dramatically reduces the demand for art objects incorporating them."

 

So it does. It also makes criminals out of people who have done nothing wrong.

 

The next step in the chain is to imprison people in advance, because they're the sort who you think are likely to commit crimes.

[Lyra]

Just take a reading and make it a virtual!

 

"Tail Feathers!" is what my mom used to use as an exclamation in lieu of using profanity.

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[Lyra]

Just take a reading and make it a virtual!

 

"Tail Feathers!" is what my mom used to use as an exclamation in lieu of using profanity.

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[sw_okie]

In the Great State of Oklahoma it illegal for non-Native Americans to possess any protected bird species feather's such as Hawk and Eagle feathers. It is legal, however, for Native Americans to possess these feathers as these items are required for them to exercise their freedom of religeon. As an average white guy, I really don't care either way. Now that I think about it though, all of my "Indun" friends are Protestant!!!

[Lyra]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cholo:

Years ago I lived in Arizona, where roadrunners are abundant. I decided to catch one by his long tail feathers. Wham!!! A big fridge fell out of the sky and flattened me. Beep...beep!

---

 

This absolutely killed me with laughter. Have no idea why it's so funny, but I'm still wiping tears from my face while I type this...

 

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

[+Windrose]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jdege:

 

The next step in the chain is to imprison people in advance, because they're the sort who you think are likely to commit crimes.

---

 

Did you see "Minority Report?"

 

"The way of the Wind is a strange, wild way."

[Growley]

From my first hand experience I can tell you that it is illegal for an individual who does not possess a license for rapter feathers/parts to possess an feathers or parts from any type of rapter. I had an owl claw that was given to me by a Native American friend that I had hanging on my car rearview mirror. I was informed by the base game warden where I work to remove it from the car. I was also told that any law enforcement officer who saw this hanging in my car could pull me over and search my vehicle because of the illegal rapter claw. Now, I'm not saying that I got rid of my owl claw because I didn't however, it does not leave the house either. I would be careful about placing items like this in a cache. By the way, this applies to bear claws also.

[+GoldKey]

quote:

---

By the way, this applies to bear claws also.

---

 

Restricting donuts? Now that IS a dumb law!

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan2:

Hey. I'm from da Bronx. I wouldn't know an eagle feather from a turkey gurgle.

 

How would you know the feather ya picked up wasn't a partridge or a horsefeather?

 

ALan

---

 

Ignorance is no excuse. If you don't know what it is, don't pick it up.

 

"Officer, I'm not a chemist, how could I know it was cocaine?"

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan2:

Hey. I'm from da Bronx. I wouldn't know an eagle feather from a turkey gurgle.

 

How would you know the feather ya picked up wasn't a partridge or a horsefeather?

 

ALan

---

 

Ignorance is no excuse. If you don't know what it is, don't pick it up.

 

"Officer, I'm not a chemist, how could I know it was cocaine?"

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jdege:

"The illegality of merely having the feathers dramatically reduces the demand for art objects incorporating them."

 

So it does. It also makes criminals out of people who have done nothing wrong.

---

 

If possesion is against the law, then people who have one in thier possesion are doing something wrong. QED.

If you mean possesion SHOULDN'T be against the law, that's a different thing. How about Ivory? Or drugs? Or stolen merchandice?

 

ApK

[+brdad]

quote:

---

How would you know the feather ya picked up wasn't a partridge or a horsefeather?

---

 

The same way you only fish for bass during bass season, and only trout during trout season...

 

It's laws like this that get this country laughed at...

 

If hooking a car battery up to a monkey's brain will help find the cure for AIDS and save somebody's life, I have two things to say .... the red is positive and the black is negative." (Nick Dipaolo)

[GeoStars]

quote:

---

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by jdege:

"The illegality of merely having the feathers dramatically reduces the demand for art objects incorporating them."

 

So it does. It also makes criminals out of people who have done nothing wrong.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

If possesion is against the law, then people who have one in thier possesion are doing something wrong. QED.

If you mean possesion SHOULDN'T be against the law, that's a different thing. How about Ivory? Or drugs? Or stolen merchandice?

 

ApK

---

 

but my interpretation of what he said is that the simple action of picking up a feather found lying on the ground should not be a punishable offense. I agree absolutely. It's yet another example of punishing the many for the misdeeds of a few.

 

Your comparison to the drug trade or thievery is stretching things a bit, IMHO.

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

[+Planet]

Hey Da Rebel, did you know New York's got Peregrine Falcons now nesting in some of the tall buildings. They like to eat pigeons. New York needs more Peregrines.

Just yesterday my friend found a red tail hawk feather in his back yard. I told him he couldn't keep it. Throw it back.

My sister's kids brought me a bunch of feathers from the zoo. I don't know what's what. They thought I could use them for tying flies. That's when you really need to know your feathers.

At this particular zoo we got the California Condor to repeatedly spread his wings when we spread our arms out wide. Such a hoot!

 

Cache you later,

Planet

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeoStars:

 

but my interpretation of what he said is that the simple action of picking up a feather found lying on the ground should not be a punishable offense. I agree absolutely. It's yet another example of punishing the many for the misdeeds of a few.

 

Your comparison to the drug trade or thievery is stretching things a bit, IMHO.

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

---

 

There's a couple of interesting issues here. To address the last first (?) I disgree that the drug comparison is a stretch. I get that complaint a lot (even when I'm NOT comparing), and the only reasoning I get against it boils down to "It's silly to compare X with Y because I do X and I think it's okay, and I don't do Y." That's not a good argument.

We put people in jail for murder, we put people in jail for fraud. Is that unfair, because it's unfair to compare a property crime with murder? No, we just put people in jail LONGER for murder, in a less desirable prison. Both are wrong, both are crimes, both are punished within the designs of our legal system, but the level of punishment is appropriate for the level of crime.

 

If suppressing the drug trade by criminalizing it is a good thing, and if criminalizing possesion is appropriate for reducing the disirability and market for drugs, then it follows that if protecting these birds by criminalizing the trade is a good thing, then criminalizing possesion to reduce the disirablity and market for the items is also appropriate, but the fines and punishment would be appripriately lower than for drugs.

 

You'll note the guy with the owl's claw wasn't hauled of to jail or even to bird-of-prey rehab, he was just told to get it out of sight so there wouldn'tbe a "Oh-that's-cool-I-want-one-too" effect. I think that was as it should be.

 

Same goes for possesing stolen merchandice.

You didn't steal it...someone just gave you a TV...right?

 

As someone else pointed out, the law would be even WORSE if a poacher could get out of trouble by saying "Gee officer, I didn't kill these birds and take thier feather to sellm, I just found them on the ground.

 

So I think my comparison is valid.

 

Now...as to whether any of those "IF's" above are actually true and whether our legal system is effective...that's a whole 'nother matter and even more off topic! Suffice it to say that I'm a libertarian (small 'l') and I'm not yet convinced that criminalizing drug use has done any good for society, and I'm totally convinced that our legal system has been rendered meaningless and ineffective by thousands of useless, unenforceable laws....

 

ApK

 

[This message was edited by ApK on September 11, 2002 at 08:53 AM.]