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I also hate to say it, but until I get 100 finds (I have 93), it's all about the numbers. I trade up, down, around, tnln, I hunt virtuals and micros. All is a statistic in this sick game I call life, and it feels good. Getting a chance to pick something out of a cache and leaving a RADMAN PHOTO FRAME gives me great joy. With each passing cache I get more thrilled at looking back at all my history in this sport, because it can never be erased.

 

Hey GeorgeandMary, if he wants to hunt for a trinket in a cache (which I'm not saying you do, I'm only assuming you hunt for the trinkets), let him do what he wants, as long as it's legal. So many different people are in this sport for so many different reasons, we can't flame them all.

 

Let us all just hold hands and sing a song!

 

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michigan_fl_md_wht.gif "Michigan Geocaching At It's Best!"

 

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle

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quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

 

Maybe you should take all those golfballs you've been collecting and pick a safer sport.

 

Under you list of complaints you have

1) The cache was harder than described

and

2) the cache was not full of good stuff.

 

Fore!!!!

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?


 

And you just made no sense at all.

Sorry you can't accept that I like to geocache & have different reasons for liking it than you. And putting anyones life in danger without alerting them to HIDDEN dangers is not an adventure.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Radman Version 2.0:

I also hate to say it, but until I get 100 finds (I have 93), it's all about the numbers. I trade up, down, around, tnln, I hunt virtuals and micros. All is a statistic in this sick game I call life, and it feels good. Getting a chance to pick something out of a cache and leaving a RADMAN PHOTO FRAME gives me great joy. With each passing cache I get more thrilled at looking back at all my history in this sport, because it can never be erased.

 

Hey GeorgeandMary, if he wants to hunt for a trinket in a cache (which I'm not saying you do, I'm only assuming you hunt for the trinkets), let him do what he wants, as long as it's legal. So many different people are in this sport for so many different reasons, we can't flame them all.

 

Let us all just hold hands and sing a song!

 

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/images/migo_sig_logo.jpg

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/flags/u_s_states/michigan_fl_md_wht.gif "Michigan Geocaching At It's Best!"

 

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle


 

Thanks Radman. All it takes is a little understanding that we all do things differently but are still part of the same group just having fun. And btw...I'm a she, not a he. icon_smile.gif

I like the feeling of knowing there's gonna be something at the end of the hunt to trade for. Not necessarily to keep. Just something that will be worth taking to another cache & not feeling embarrassed to leave.

 

--------------------------------

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http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

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I personally am in it for the exercise and the enjoyment... who cares what is inside, it is the hunt, the fun, and the exercise. Besides the world is filled with a variety of people, everyone likes different things... what one person doesnt like, another will. What one person feels is trash another feels it is a treasure!

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Another thread heading off topic -- this discussion is NOT about the hunt vs the treasure -- it's about crappy cache contents.

-----

 

I think the biggest point that's being missed here is that the trinkets and treasures are mostly for the kids (some are bigger/older than others and that's cool too).

 

Don't we owe it to kids to leave something better than a cigarette or a fast-food toy?

 

Perhaps many of you who don't get this bit about trading should take some kids with you sometime -- you'll be amazed at the excitement when a little kid finds some stickers, or a hot wheels car, a caribiner, or a stuffed toy animal. This is what it's about for a lot of people. It's fun.

 

And at the end of the journey to the cache when you get see that big smile on a kids face it makes you want to thank the person that was thoughtful enough to consider what they left -- and for giving the kids something to smile about. And that smile is the additional bonus for me icon_smile.gif

 

And it's not about the monetary value -- some of the most treasured stuff that we've found has not been expensive but is unique in some way (or popular, like a bey blade). A geocaching button made by Pharmadude, a rock with a hand painted face, a toy VW Beetle are some of the most treasured items.

 

We have left some compasses, CD's and other 'premium' items in our caches but have also written in the description that we don't expect the person who takes it to trade up or even for these items -- just leave something decent in trade. A dollar store item is fine but if someone left a fast food toy we might be a bit disappointed.

 

We just get a kick out of knowing that the kid (of whatever age) that took that memento will think of caching whenever they use it or look at it -- and that's cool to us.

 

If you trade -- make sure it's something that you'd like to find in the next cache that you go to and everything should work out fine.

 

If you want to just leave a TNLN that's fine too.

 

And if have it in your means to take nothing and leave something, that's very cool.

 

Just please, don't leave a bottle cap...

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

And putting anyones life in danger without alerting them to HIDDEN dangers is not an adventure.


 

Driving to the cache location could be a danger. Eating too much red meat can be a danger. Spending too much time in the sun can be a danger. Do you want to be warned about everything? Get a life and use your brain!

 

Yes, this is off-topic. :-) Sorry folks.

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quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:

...I have adopted one rule that I got from another cacher; If there's change, or money in the cache (Not Where's George $$) it's mine. I assume that the last cacher left it to help pay my toll charges, or gas...


Sorry, but if it happens to be money I left, your assumption is incorrect. I almost always leave an assortment of foreign coins; they are my signature item and are intended for trade, not plunder. I also occasionally leave $1-$5 (or its local equivalent) to ensure an equitable trade if I lack an appropriate item in my pack. And sometimes I'll just leave some money to improve the value of the cache. It is intended to be traded for like value items or to be used by the cache owner to help maintain his cache. It is never intended as a windfall for the next cacher who just happens along.

 

I'm somewhat surprised that you seem to more or less embrace the ethic of equitable trading when it comes to trinkets, but apparently think all money (except WG$) found in a cache is rightfully yours apart from any trading. Is there an upper limit to the amount you feel entitled to take, or do you always just grab it all?

(edited for typo)

 

Worldtraveler

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on May 20, 2003 at 08:31 AM.]

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I think Jomarac5 has the right idea.

 

People hunt caches for different reasons, but as soon as one of these posts complaining about the quality of cache items pop up, there are some here who boast that they don't care about the cache items because they don't trade. That's fine if it's your bag, but often there is also a thinly disguised disdain for those who do trade and do care about finding halfway decent items in a cache. Those people have to get it in their head that their reason for geocaching is different, but not necessarily superior.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Those people have to get it in their head that their reason for geocaching is different, but not necessarily superior.


 

There ya' go!

 

This has been hashed and rehashed, but it all comes down to the question, "Why do you geocache?" As for us, we believe that if you're in this for the "treasure", you're probably not gonna get rich. However, we DO enjoy finding (and leaving) nice items every once in a while. I guess you could say that we're "on the fence" on this issue.

 

On related subject, I've seen some people say that when they find "junk" in a cache, they remove it and replace it with "something better". In fact, we have done this in the past as well. I think it's worth mentioning, however, that one must be careful when judging something as "junk". Everybody has a different opinion (as evidenced by the success of garage sales).

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Here are some facts about geocaching that are never going to change.

 

Caches get traded down.

Page descriptions often don't tell everything.

 

Complaining about either is a waste of time. Considering that a small portion of geocachers that actually participate on the forum, you're not going to reach enough people to change the situation.

 

Now, you can either go through each cache adventure with the eminent doom of crappy contents, or enjoy the the experience in it's simplest forms. It's an easter egg hunt.

 

I appreciate it when someone hides a cache, any cache. I don't disparage them when they don't leave stuff thats 'good enough' for me. Thank you to all you cache hiders. A simple film cannister with a note is enough for me. Anything more is a bonus.

 

Now, if you've found this sport, and you've come to the conclusion that you don't like caches with junk in them, and you don't like caches that are harder than the page describes then you're in trouble. It's like taking up golf and complaining the tall grass on the edges. It's part of the sport that isn't going away.

 

Your only other solution is to hunt new 1/1 caches that have been well stocked and say so on the page... but then again.. it just may be full of junk.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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So far, which isn't saying much, we have physically TNLN in all caches we've found. We've taken a picture with a camera as requested in one cache and drew a picture in another as requested. We've found caches with really wonderful stuff in them and looked through it all and admired the different things. The big thing for me has been signing the log book and letting the cache host know that we enjoyed the find. So if it is a microcache with just a rolled up log book, that is equally enjoyable to me and M'Lady Willow. We both like the hunt. The idea that there are secrets in our world that only certain others know about is kinda thrilling. That's why I like benchmarking a lot as well. They are all around us but most people just aren't aware of it.

 

We both like seeing really interesting stuff in a cache and would both grimmace at seeing a McDonald's happymeal toy, but probably some tyke out there would love it. To me it is unthoughtfull, dull and chintzy... but one person's garbage is another person's treasure.

 

We will probably start trading some stuff, but in preperation for it we would think about what is appropriate for the cache. Like this one which is hidden at a dog run and the cache is full of dog toys. If we were to go looking for that cache knowing we wanted to trade stuff, we'd find some nice doggie toys to contribute.

 

I think that if someone put some thought into their cache and its contents, it's only fair to keep the trades in line with the original level of cache.

 

Team Kender - Willow and Dan exploring the Bay Area backroads!

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quote:

Driving to the cache location could be a danger. Eating too much red meat can be a danger. Spending too much time in the sun can be a danger. Do you want to be warned about everything? Get a life and use your brain!

 

Yes, this is off-topic. :-) Sorry folks.


 

Ok, obviously you're a moron. Anyone remotely familar with the ocean knows that undertow currents can be deadly. This cache required you to cross water where you couldn't accurately tell the depth or judge the current. It was a HIDDEN danger that should have been stated in the cache description. The only thing that was said at all was that it was best to go at low tide. No other mention of the ocean or water was even made. I suppose you also would think it funny to hide a cache near quicksand and not tell anyone about it. This isn't like putting a cache up a tall tree and stating it in the cache page. In that situation you can readily see any dangers before even leaving your computer. The cache I am talking about seems harmless until you are suddenly in trouble.

 

--------------------------------

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How would I rate a quicksand cache? 2.5?

 

Cache description: Hold your breath. Cache container is a 1979 El Dorado. Cache contents (see, even in a worthless post I stay on the subject), 3 gold bars, 2 carat diamond ring mounted in platnium, the missing Beatles demo master tapes, and Jimmy Hoffa. Please trade up.

 

Make a sanity check.migo_sig_logo.jpg

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Dude Man(TMAN264),"THE" Missing Beatles Demo Master Tapes?!?I got to find that Cache!!! Thats way cooler than the vintage live Elvis CD's I like to leave at some Caches.Are these the tapes Brian Epstine tried to sell to Decca?I'm there Dude Man!!!

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And once again the thread goes off topic leaving those who wish to have an intelligent discussion frustrated once more...

 

What is it with you people? Can you not refrain from making ridiculous comments that have nothing to do with the topic being discussed?

 

So now this topic goes by the wayside and once again it will be brought up in the near future and the same ridiculous people will no doubt point out that this topic has been discussed already.

 

If you don't have something of value to offer the discussion, then why say anything at all? Give your egos a rest and let someone who has something valid to offer have a chance to voice their concerns.

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

Give your egos a rest and let someone who has something valid to offer have a chance to voice their concerns.


And the positive contribution this post made to the conversation was what again? It's not as if talking about the problem is going to solve it anyway, so why bother talking about it?

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Ok, obviously you're a moron. Anyone remotely familar with the ocean knows that undertow currents can be deadly.


So then you KNEW the risks, and were willing to attempt it anyway. Who was holding the gun to your head at the time? You DID of course also look at that terrain 4 rating before you went after the cache, right?

quote:

**** TERRAIN

 

Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay.)


 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy wrote:

It's not as if talking about the problem is going to solve it anyway, so why bother talking about it?


Now that really makes sense. If ever there was opportunity to slam someone, this is sure it. But... it would serve no meaningful purpose at this moment and it is not what this thread is about.

 

This thread is a discussion about how cache contents are degraded over time. We've determined that this is a problem and now it's time to see if we can determine a possible solution to the problem.

 

If you aren't discussing this, you're posting to the wrong thread.

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

 

If you don't have something of value to offer the discussion, then why say anything at all?

 

*****


 

The most valuable thing to take away from this thread is that caches get traded down so don't let that ruin the experience. What more do you want.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

And once again the thread goes off topic leaving those who wish to have an intelligent discussion frustrated once more...

 

What is it with you people? Can you not refrain from making ridiculous comments that have nothing to do with the topic being discussed?

 

So now this topic goes by the wayside and once again it will be brought up in the near future and the same ridiculous people will no doubt point out that this topic has been discussed already.

 

If you don't have something of value to offer the discussion, then why say anything at all? Give your egos a rest and let someone who has something valid to offer have a chance to voice their concerns.

 

*****


 

No offense, but this is like the 3rd or 4th time you have scolded the user's of this board for going off topic? Did I miss something, or are you a moderator now? You didn't even start the thread. You have posted more off topic spam that anyone (besides me) trying to keep the posts "on topic". You are as guilty as anyone.

 

So that I do not violate the almighty "stay on topic rule" that someone really seems to be concerned about, today I took a homemade candle, and left a Sharpie marker and a dollar, thus in my confused head, I traded even.

 

No hard feelings.

 

Make a sanity check.migo_sig_logo.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Kender:

We both like seeing really interesting stuff in a cache and would both grimace at seeing a McDonald's happymeal toy, but probably some tyke out there would love it. To me it is unthoughtfull, dull and chintzy... but one person's garbage is another person's treasure.


 

I totally agree with you on finding neat stuff but a 2 year old thinks Mickey D toys are pretty neat too. Granted, the placer didn't really "pay" anything for it, I can see where you would consider this cheap & I personally wouldn't leave them solely as a trade item either but for some kids they fall into the "other man's treasure" category.

I've actually got an excess of duplicate toys that I'm gonna make a "McToy" cache just to see how it goes plus alot of people seem to collect this stuff so hopefully it will go well. At least no one will be surprised when they see the contents & they're not expected to trade anything other than some other McToys.

 

This wasn't only aimed at Kender, I just used that quote to make a point. You sound like a very conscious cacher, the kind that people don't complain about! icon_smile.gif

 

Back to the original point, yes, it seems some caches do go down in quality (maybe not everyone's opinion) but around here we don't seem to have much of a problem with it. Some people actually surprise me by leaving the nice things that they do.

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quote:
georgeandmary wrote:

The most valuable thing to take away from this thread is that caches get traded down so don't let that ruin the experience. What more do you want.


And because you can't expand your thinking enough to realize that somewhere, somehow, there is a solution to this problem, you give the impression that no one should discuss it in a civilized and intellectual manner? That no one else can come up with a possible solution?

 

And if they do begin having a sensible discussion, you for some unknown reason, feel compelled to put in as much BS as possible to distract them from attempting to do this?

 

How is that helping to advance the sport?

 

If all you want to do is be non-productive and interfere with others who want to better the sport then I suggest that you start another thread for the purpose of arguing with everyone and post your replies there.

 

quote:
TMAN264 wrote:

You have posted more off topic spam that anyone (besides me) trying to keep the posts "on topic". You are as guilty as anyone.


See above.

 

*****

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Those who say they other people should enjoy geocacing only "for the hunt" are amusing.

 

I wonder if they would enjoy metal detecting just for joy of swinging the detector from side to side, even if they find no coins.

 

I wonder if they enjoy a fishing trip as much when they catch no fish or tiny fish.

 

Geocashing is a "treasure" hunt. Locating a box of trash lessens it to locating a box of trash.

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quote:
Originally posted by prv8eye:

Those who say they other people should enjoy geocacing only "for the hunt" are amusing.

 

I wonder if they would enjoy metal detecting just for joy of swinging the detector from side to side, even if they find no coins.


If the hunt brought me to cool new places that I never would have known about, then no, I wouldn't be disappointed.

 

I always trade when I find a cache, but I'm comfortable with the fact that it might be full of items that a given person may not particularly want. Rather than worrying about the monetary value of the item, enjoy the sheer randomness of what you find. In my (few) cache finds so far, I've yet to find SOMETHING that was useful or interesting. Scotch tape, a Taz keychain, some nail polish for my fiancee... I try to leave interesting and useful things behind as well, without worrying about how much they cost, or whether I'm "trading down" or not.

 

If everyone did the same, I don't think we'd have threads like this.

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I guess I should add something to this monster I created...

 

I too, will often move items from one cache to another...

Perhaps "disappointed" was a bit HARSH for an adjective...but when it comes to kids, one McToy is much like the next, and the cache in question was FULL of them, a couple of old permanent markers, two pencils...you get the idea.

YES, the hunt IS more important...when caching by myself I don't care about the baubles and trinkets.

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quote:
WhiteHowler wrote:

I always trade when I find a cache, but I'm comfortable with the fact that it might be full of items that a given person may not particularly want. Rather than worrying about the monetary value of the item, enjoy the sheer randomness of what you find. In my (few) cache finds so far, I've yet to find SOMETHING that was useful or interesting. Scotch tape, a Taz keychain, some nail polish for my fiancee... I try to leave interesting and useful things behind as well, without worrying about how much they cost, or whether I'm "trading down" or not.

 

If everyone did the same, I don't think we'd have threads like this.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

*****

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People are sometimes connivers and thieves. Mostly I think we're just occasionally thoughtless. The end result is that Caches are going to degrade over time.

 

What happens when I get to a cache and realize I didn't bring swag as good as what is there already? What if I really wanted one of those cool items? I'd like to say I would always take the high road and TNLN, but it's possible I might rationalize a poor decision in that circumstance - human nature being what it is.

 

In hindsight, I realise the caches I have hidden have much better stuff than what I have left at other's Caches - but I don't think I have traded down either. Perhaps that's only because I usually take the much disparaged McToys for my 4 year old. She doesn't think they're crap. She thinks they're "treasure" Daddy hunted to get special for her and she displays them as such. I think she has the right idea.

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But then again, something useful or interesting to you just may be junk to someone else.

 

Jomarac5 : Argumentive question's to follow.

 

1) What is your answer to the problem ?

 

2) Would you have a minimum value of trade items?

 

3) Would you have all cacheer's have to list what they took and left on the web page ?

 

4) Would you have a shopping list at KMart-Target-Dollar store-wherever of authorized cache items ?

 

5) Make all caches theme type ?

 

I have been through a box full of these styles of threads and everyone of them has the same problem.

 

No solid answer from anyone as to what to do about the degradation of cache items.

 

Even if you where to trade item's from cache's that you found, sooner or later things get broke, paint rubbed off, parts missing, etc. What then? Do you have to run out and replace those items with a new one?

 

In our area, we have a couple gals painting rocks. Ladybugs, bees, racoon, horses, skunks, etc. Those are sought after items. Would you consider them junk?

Trade value is nil, a couple nickles worth of paint and you can buy two tons of the rocks for about 6 bucks. Their value is in finding one before anyone else grabs them and waiting for a new style to hit the caches.

 

Now, tell me how your going to police the cachers and force them to trade even or up.

 

Now tell me what your looking for in the caches.

What do you want to find?

What are you looking for from this game?

Adventure or trinkets?

 

Webster says :

Serendipity - The FACULTY of finding valuable or agreeable things not sought for.

 

logscaler.

 

[This message was edited by logscaler on May 20, 2003 at 04:00 PM.]

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logscaler asked the following questions:

 

1) What is your answer to the problem?

 

It's really a common sense issue -- obviously, leaving cigarettes or bottle caps or a used spoon is not appropriate and those that leave such items need to realize that this is doing nothing to enhance the sport.

 

If people were to trade with a concience this problem would probably go away. Yes, there is bound to be a certain amount of degradation of all caches but the idea here is to slow it down so that the fifth person to a cache doesn't end up with a box of worthless broken junk.

 

2) Would you have a minimum value of trade items?

 

If you're referring to monetary value -- absolutely not. Some of the coolest things that we've found in caches have not been of great value -- generally these are items that people have made. One example is a local cacher that puts a small bit of hand-made chain mail as a signature item -- certainly not worth much monetarily but it's very interesting. My kids had never seen chain mail before and were quite interested in it. I think for the most part though, if you come to a cache that already has a couple of mctoys in it, then it's probably a good idea to save that mctoy in your pocket for another cache that doesn't have one. Incidentally, we have been known to take the odd mctoy but generally my kids don't want them most of the time.

 

3) Would you have all cacher's have to list what they took and left on the web page?

 

I think this would be a good idea. No, I don't think it should be a rule -- it's just a polite courtesy to the cache log.

 

4) Would you have a shopping list at KMart-Target-Dollar store-wherever of authorized cache items?

 

Hardly. This is covered pretty much in the answer to question 2.

 

5) Make all caches theme type?

 

Sorry, but I don't see where this would help other than to specify that it is a none mctoy cache.

 

Now tell me what your looking for in the caches. What do you want to find? What are you looking for from this game? Adventure or trinkets?

 

As I mentioned in previous posts in this thread -- trading really is for kids -- since you asked, I'd like to see cache items that appeal to children. For me personally, it is the quest of finding the cache and going to a new location that is important. But for kids, a big part of it is the treasure chest at the end of the journey.

 

With regard to policing trades, it would be impossible. But we can all collectively encourage cachers to consider their trade items more carefully.

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:

...I have adopted one rule that I got from another cacher; If there's change, or money in the cache (Not Where's George $$) it's mine. I assume that the last cacher left it to help pay my toll charges, or gas...


Sorry, but if it happens to be money _I_ left, your assumption is incorrect. I almost always leave an assortment of foreign coins; they are my signature item and are intended for trade, not plunder. I also occasionally leave $1-$5 (or its local equivalent) to ensure an equitable trade if I lack an appropriate item in my pack. And sometimes I'll just leave some money to improve the value of the cache. It is intended to be traded for like value items or to be used by the cache owner to help maintain his cache. It is _never_ intended as a windfall for the next cacher who just happens along.

 

I'm somewhat surprised that you seem to more or less embrace the ethic of equitable trading when it comes to _trinkets_, but apparently think all _money_ (except WG$) found in a cache is rightfully yours apart from any trading. Is there an upper limit to the amount you feel entitled to take, or do you always just grab it all?

(edited for typo)

 

Worldtraveler

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on May 20, 2003 at 08:31 AM.]


 

LOL - I don't know which rich neighborhoods you have been cachin in. I'm sure there are a few cache raiders that would like to know. My biggest windfall to date has been about $1.37 in green quarters and pennies. I was doing the cache owner a favor to take that crap outta there. FYI - Traded for it. Perfectly good corporate swag worth more than the crappy change in my "windfall." I used the quarters in a toy machine to add to my cache booty.

 

I have a great job and don't NEED the money. I just think it is a poor excuse for a trade. Foreign money as a Sig item is cool though. I have only grabbed one piece of foreign money and it was to trade at a foreign money themed cache. Kids like the strange looking money, so I leave it alone. I always hope maybe they will be tempted to learn something about where it came from. There is also a local cache that the cache owner placed a dozen or so dollar coins in. I wouldn't dream of taking more than one. That's how it was set up.

 

Anyhoo, did the rest of my original post sit well with you, or did you just jump at the chance to scold someone?

 

Snicon_razz.gificon_razz.gifgans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....http://www.texasgeocaching.com

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

logscaler asked the following questions:

 

_1) What is your answer to the problem?_

 

It's really a common sense issue -- obviously, leaving cigarettes or bottle caps or a used spoon is not appropriate and those that leave such items need to realize that this is doing nothing to enhance the sport.

 

If people were to trade with a concience this problem would probably go away. Yes, there is bound to be a certain amount of degradation of all caches but the idea here is to slow it down so that the fifth person to a cache doesn't end up with a box of worthless broken junk.

 


 

Let it now be know that the problem has now been solved. Let all future threads be markwelled to this simple solution.

 

Why didn't someone think of it before?

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Ok, obviously you're a moron. Anyone remotely familar with the ocean knows that undertow currents can be deadly. This cache required you to cross water where you couldn't accurately tell the depth or judge the current.


 

No, obviously you are the moron! Who said you had to swim / walk across? Can't you think that swimming in a situation like that would be dangerous? The only moron here is you! Maybe you should have used a kayak / canoe / boat. Or maybe instead of trying to take the short cut walk up the river / creek and find a bridge. Or get a trail map of the area so you can find a safe way to get where you need to go!

 

Wake up and use your brain! Think for yourself instead of expecting others to think for you!

 

And now let's get this thread back on topic! :-)

 

RobertM

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I'm on Jomarac5's side with this one (even though that thought might cause him to re think his position). Nobody's expecting to find gold coins, keys to a new BMW, or a brand new GPS V in a cache. But putting a little thought into the items you place in a cache isn't asking a whole lot.

 

The item doesn't have to be expensive, but it should be thoughtful. You can buy a brand new Matchbox car for 99 cents, so why leave one that you found in your kid's toy chest with missing wheels? Instead of leaving a dirty toy soldier, partially chewed by your dog, you can leave a new bag of 50 of them that will cost you $1.49. Why leave a rusty pocket knife with a broken blade, when you can find a brand new Wenger for $4.

 

A little imagination goes a long way. Use it and if you put 1/100 the effort into finding decent items to leave for your fellow cachers than you do racking up numbers, the sport will be better off for it.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Ok, obviously you're a moron. _Anyone remotely familar with the ocean knows that undertow currents can be deadly._


So then you KNEW the risks, and were willing to attempt it anyway. Who was holding the gun to your head at the time? You DID of course also look at that terrain 4 rating before you went after the cache, right?


 

Ok, you're obviously not familiar with oceans. You can never fully tell what area around an ocean will be dangerous. In the summer lifeguards post flags when there is a riptide to alert swimmers of the danger. There's no way for casual swimmers to know the riptide exists. Just the same, parts of the inlets can be simple and shallow or contain a hidden undercurrent. Unless you are an expert you won't know which is which until you get in the water. In situations like this yes, it is the cache hiders responsiblity to alert other cachers that there is a hidden danger here. It's not a danger that 'could' happen, like not taking proper equipment to climb a mountain. It's a danger that can't be prepared for and should simply be avoided. There was a passable area at the cache location but there was no way of looking at the area & knowing that particular spot was safe. The only way I found out was that luck just happened to have it that 2 guys were there crabbing & were familiar with the area & showed me where I could cross. Normally people wouldn't be there to tell you this information. But hey, why should I care, I've done the cache. Let's just leave it to all the folks who follow me & get hurt in the search and then come down on geocaching.com. Is that fair to you?

 

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

 

[This message was edited by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm on May 20, 2003 at 08:18 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by prv8eye:

Those who say they other people should enjoy geocacing only "for the hunt" are amusing.

 

I wonder if they would enjoy metal detecting just for joy of swinging the detector from side to side, even if they find no coins.

 

I wonder if they enjoy a fishing trip as much when they catch no fish or tiny fish.

 

Geocashing is a "treasure" hunt. Locating a box of trash lessens it to locating a box of trash.


 

Too funny icon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

 

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

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quote:
Ok, you're obviously not familiar with oceans. You can never fully tell what area around an ocean will be dangerous. In the summer lifeguards post flags when there is a riptide to alert swimmers of the danger...blah, blah, blah...

 

I grew up spending summers at the shore (NJ, Cape Cod and NC). As such, I'm quite familiar with the dangerous currents, esp. riptides (because of this I'm here to post this).

 

Being from central NJ, I'm sure Mopar is as familiar with these currents as I am. This being said, I'm still waiting to find out what part of a 4 star terrain rating it was that you didn't understand.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

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quote:
Originally posted by jumpy_monkey:

She thinks they're "treasure" Daddy hunted to get special for her and she displays them as such.


 

That is cute. icon_smile.gif

I don't think people have a problem with the McToys being there. It's more that a lot of people will 'took gold watch, $50 gift certificate, left McToy. If you're gonna leave a McToy then make sure you're taking something of the same value, whic I don't think can be much. Or leave something else along with it that would be more appropriate for an adult. Doesn't matter how much it costs. I think the message we are all getting at here is just make sure it isn't trash. If a child sees the McToys as a treasure daddy brought home then they have their place in caches. We just have to be responsible about how they are traded.

 

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

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quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Ok, obviously you're a moron. Anyone remotely familar with the ocean knows that undertow currents can be deadly. This cache required you to cross water where you couldn't accurately tell the depth or judge the current.


 

No, obviously you are the moron! Who said you had to swim / walk across? Can't you think that swimming in a situation like that would be dangerous? The only moron here is you! Maybe you should have used a kayak / canoe / boat. Or maybe instead of trying to take the short cut walk up the river / creek and find a bridge. Or get a trail map of the area so you can find a safe way to get where you need to go!

 

Wake up and use your brain! Think for yourself instead of expecting others to think for you!

 

And now let's get this thread back on topic! :-)

 

RobertM


 

Guess you've never been to an East Coast ocean icon_smile.gif

The inlet goes north for about 30 miles. Don't think walking up the beach would have helped. Dragging a boat down the beach to the spot...yeah, I considered that but since the cache didn't state that it was necessary I went with what it implied, that you could just walk across. The map, yes, I have several. Know the area well. There are no trails here. It's a beach! Lots of little barrier islands off of the inlet. One side of the inlet is private houses that you can't get access to and the other is solid beach. You can't go up to the bridge because the bridge is over wetlands and all you'd do is fall right into the water. I've lived here my whole life & knew exactly where the cache was before even looking at the map. You're showing that you have no knowledge of coastlines. But then you're also showing that you aren't easily embarrassed by your posts.

 

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

I'm on Jomarac5's side with this one (even though that thought might cause him to re think his position). Nobody's expecting to find gold coins, keys to a new BMW, or a brand new GPS V in a cache. But putting a little thought into the items you place in a cache isn't asking a whole lot.

 

The item doesn't have to be expensive, but it should be thoughtful. You can buy a brand new Matchbox car for 99 cents, so why leave one that you found in your kid's toy chest with missing wheels? Instead of leaving a dirty toy soldier, partially chewed by your dog, you can leave a new bag of 50 of them that will cost you $1.49. Why leave a rusty pocket knife with a broken blade, when you can find a brand new Wenger for $4.

 

A little imagination goes a long way. Use it and if you put 1/100 the effort into finding decent items to leave for your fellow cachers than you do racking up numbers, the sport will be better off for it.

 

_"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues"_ -Abraham Lincoln


 

I think you just summed it all up quite well. Why is that so difficult for others to understand?

 

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by prv8eye:

Those who say they other people should enjoy geocacing only "for the hunt" are amusing.


I'm glad I amuse you!

quote:
Originally posted by prv8eye:

I wonder if they would enjoy metal detecting just for joy of swinging the detector from side to side, even if they find no coins.


Nope, but then, thats why I gave up metal detecting years ago.

quote:
Originally posted by prv8eye:

I wonder if they enjoy a fishing trip as much when they catch no fish or tiny fish.


I love fishing trips, and since I don't eat any type of seafood, no I don't care if I catch anything. The time spent on the water with good friends is my reward there

quote:
Originally posted by prv8eye:

Geocashing is a "treasure" hunt. Locating a box of trash lessens it to locating a box of trash.


Hmmmm... I seem to remember the very first geocache had a can of beans. Does that count as treasure or trash? Sure don't sound like treasure to me, yet look how it's grown. I guess it's a good thing that those first searchers for that very first geocache wern't in it for the treasure huh? If that's what they were looking for, there would be no geocaching today.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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We were notified today that one of our caches was plundered. I checked the cache this afternoon and found someone had taken a magnifier,knife,checkbook cover,an electronic Yahtzee, 2 sacagaweas, a SBA, a where's george, a deck of cards, a piece of petrified wood, some Azurite crystals, and a fuzzy stuffed dog. What do you think was left in return? Would you believe a cigarette, half a bottle of water, and a crushable hat. They must not care for mineral samples too much since that was all that was left.

What to do? I think I'll stop doing easy caches. Maybe if they have to put out some effort they'll stay away. We tried to do some caches for those people who are restricted in how far and how rough the terrain that can be handled but it looks like that type of cache won't work here.

I'm open to suggestions!

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quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Ok, you're obviously not familiar with oceans. You can never fully tell what area around an ocean will be dangerous. In the summer lifeguards post flags when there is a riptide to alert swimmers of the danger. There's no way for casual swimmers to know the riptide exists. Just the same, parts of the inlets can be simple and shallow or contain a hidden undercurrent. Unless you are an expert you won't know which is which until you get in the water. In situations like this yes, it is the cache hiders responsiblity to alert other cachers that there is a hidden danger here. It's not a danger that 'could' happen, like not taking proper equipment to climb a mountain. It's a danger that can't be prepared for and should simply be avoided. There was a passable area at the cache location but there was no way of looking at the area & knowing that particular spot was safe. The only way I found out was that luck just happened to have it that 2 guys were there crabbing & were familiar with the area & showed me where I could cross. Normally people wouldn't be there to tell you this information. But hey, why should I care, I've done the cache. Let's just leave it to all the folks who follow me & get hurt in the search and then come down on geocaching.com. Is that fair to you?


Was it that obvious to you? Ya know, growing up and living in places like Wildwood, Cliffwood Beach, Keyport, and Point Pleasant Beach, you woulda though maybe, just maybe, I've seen an ocean here or there. But I guess I missed it. You would think being the son of a former powerboat racer, I might have spent a some time near water....guess not. You might think after owning boats of every size and shape, I might have actually put them in the water instead of staring at them in the driveway. You might even have thought since I started using LORAN long before there was GPS, I might have at least splashed in a pool or something, huh?

Tell me again what an ocean is?

The terrain rating is the 1st clue it's not easy. Everyone should know their limits. We did a cache sunday where we decided to turn around and try another day because of tidal water conditions.

Obviously, with all your local knowledge of the water conditions, you didn't know anywhere NEAR as much as the other finder on that cache:

quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Ended up that the water was a very swiftly moving inlet flowing into the ocean. Most places were over my head but in a RARE FEW you could touch bottom but with your feet sinking way into the sand & making walking quite difficult, especially with the current.


 

quote:
February 23 by Geo13 (1027 found)

Once we parked at the correct spot, the tide was so high that the water was swift and impassable.

Finally, at low tide I got water in my boots and my pants wet 10 inches above my knees (but the water was warm, thankfully).


So, either you are only 3ft tall, Geo13 has 10ft long legs, or you chose to make the cache harder and more dangerous then it needed to be.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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A buddie and I just started at this but here is what we do,we have a backpack with a few supplies we go hunting for cashes (or first time at this and we didnt know what to espect) with which contains differant items like water,first aid kit,flashlight,compass,some jerky,cell phone and stuff to trade with whats in the cashe,we bring about 10 differant things that have a value from $1.00 to $25.00.Who ever finds the cashe gets to make the trade (our kids come with us)this has seemed to worked for us so far,but it was only our first weekend.we did run into one where we have to go back and leave a toothbrush since my daughter lost the one we brought to trade with on the way to it,it was a take a toothbrush,leave a touthbrush so we didnt take the whole backpack on that one.

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quote:
Originally posted by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders):

 

I'm open to suggestions!


 

What you should do is leave a note in the cache that explains Jomarac's solution.

quote:
If people were to trade with a concience this problem would probably go away. Yes, there is bound to be a certain amount of degradation of all caches but the idea here is to slow it down so that the fifth person to a cache doesn't end up with a box of worthless broken junk.


 

That way, when someone finds the cache, they'll know that it's wrong to trade down. It's obvious that most people did not realize that to begin with.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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My theory, is that GPS equipment needs to be child proof like Elderly peoples medicine. Just kidding. If a cache is hard to find it weeds out the little kids from finding it, and therefore the adult cachers are the main finders and they keep the trade accurate. I have a little brother and it is difficult as all get out to convince him no not steel the damned cache, box and all let alone stop him from being unfair. I let him know he would never go with me again if he hassles me to let him take all the good items and leave one, measly sad item. (Chirping cricket from mcdonalds)

 

I left a bright orange waterproof flashlite from everready, for a nice indy 500 pin, does that sound fair? (I don't want human nature to dictate unfairly in my case.)

 

Team Hunter (Our last names)

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