Has anyone else noticed...

May 18, 2003

...the trade "values" decreasing lately?

I come across many logs stating:

"Took pocket knife...left a sticker" or

"took Mini Maglight...left two AA batteries"

I thought the idea was to trade EVENLY!?

Maybe it's just me, but I am noticing this a lot lately...Our last cache was so disappointing, even the kids didn't want to leave anything since there was nothing of any real worth in the cache.

I still enjoy the hiking and the hunt, but seriously folks...TRY to trade evenly!

1.4k · May 18, 2003

So instead of adding to the cache in an effort to improve it you TNLN?

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

1k · May 18, 2003

The degradation of cache booty quality has been frequently discussed here and seems almost as inevitable as the second law of thermodynamics. I find my own willingness to reverse the trend to be largely determined by the quality of the container itself. If it's an ammo can or one of a few other containers that are truly rugged and weatherproof, I always try to improve the quality of the contents. If it's a gladware container, coffee can, or some similarly flimsy container, I usually try to clean out the trash (seems like there is always some), dry it out (because it is usually wet), and log TNLNSL. That's the most improvement I'm willing to invest in a cache that, because of its container, is just trash-in-the-making anyway.

Worldtraveler

1.4k · May 18, 2003

Has anyone else noticed that smart a$$ answers are INCREASING lately?

quote:
Harrald wrote:
So instead of adding to the cache in an effort to improve it you TNLN?

Why is it that responses from certain individuals continously evade the posted question and instead turn on the poster in an effort to humiliate or scold? If these people have nothing of importance to say, why don't they keep their yaps shut?

Back to the question at hand:

Team MJDJ, it seems that a lot of the popular, often visited caches tend to degrade quickly. From what I've read in the forums and in discussions with other cachers, this seems to be consistent with most areas, not just our own back yard.

Often, when we find a cache that is lacking in good trade items we'll leave something behind but not take anything. Other times, especially if the cache is in really bad shape, we'll TNLN because the best thing to do is to dump all the contents and start fresh. If the cache is full of nothing but McToys and other junk, we'll send an e-mail to the cache owner to let them know that the cache could use a 'boost'. Usually, the cache owner is happy to be informed of this and will promptly remedy the situation.

From what I've seen, most cachers do trade fairly but there are a few who don't. The only thing to do is to encourage these others to trade more appropriately.

-----

3.9k · May 18, 2003

As Worldtraveler stated, this has been discussed before. Some people think you should trade even...some think you should trade up.

Which brings me to the question of...if you trade up everytime would the logs eventually read....took ATV...left keys to new Lincoln Town Car located in the parking lot...took Lincoln...left deed to the house on 303 Elm St.?

Just keep in mind the that the real treasure is getting out with family and friends...not what you find in the container.

I very seldom remove anything from a cache, but I always leave something. The items I do take are left in another cache somewhere down the trail.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

May 18, 2003

I agree with Jomarac5 in much of what was said. Mostly I think it's new cachers not understanding what all they do by not trading fairly. What really grinds me is when I read a log something like.... "________ and family showed up.....Billy took the flashlignt and Susey took the doll.....and Frank took the only other good item......and we all left our McToys"... You get the picture. Families and teams should only trade one item per cache in my opinion. One un-thinking team can devestate a cache with one trip. I also try to leave something at each cache....even if I don't take anything. I always sign the log and leave a nice note when I log the cache because after the trouble of putting it out there....I think it's a nice thing to do. Maybe I just fell into a bunch of good cachers around me.....or maybe I tended to read a lot of the forums and learned from that..... but I know that most of the time... if we are patient and try to explain things to the newer people GENTLY.... sometimes it does some good.

If God is your co-pilot, it's time to change seats!!!

1.4k · May 18, 2003

Jomarac5,

What you failed to notice in your effort to post an inflammatory response is that the original poster did not post a question. They posted a comment stating that cache contents were not up to their standards. My response was merely an effort to point out that by not adding to the cache they in fact are perpetuating the perceived problem.

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

1.4k · May 18, 2003

quote:
Harrald wrote:
Jomarac5,

What you failed to notice in your effort to post an inflammatory response is that the original poster did not post a question.

Really? Then what was:

"I thought the idea was to trade EVENLY!?"

Your response appears to be nothing more than a lame effort to humiliate the poster. Just because they opt to TNLN does not mean that they are "perpetuating the perceived problem".

Like the degraded caches that are spoken of here, you have given nothing of value to this discussion.

Don't bother replying to this post, I won't respond further -- instead try offering something meaningful to the question that was originally presented.

-----

May 18, 2003

I somewhat agree with Worldtraveler's take on this - with a slightly different twist...

I am more likely to "trade up" a cache if I am particularly impressed with the location or the cleverness of the hide. The cache could be in a gold-plated ammocan, but if it's a poorly hidden plunder-target or in a crummy location, I am more likely to TNLN.

Then again - sometimes when I TNLN, it's because I didn't bring anything good enough (or sometimes small enough) to trade up.

6.5k · May 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:
Has anyone else noticed that smart a$$ answers are INCREASING lately?

Nope I havent. But I have noticed an increasing number of people flying off the handle over replies that were not exactly what they would have said. Noticed anything like that?

Back to this thread-

I haven't noticed any increase in unfair trading. And I agree with the comments from others about cache loot degrading.

24.7k · May 18, 2003

It happens, it's part of the sport. Take it or leave it.

Or trade up every now and then, whatever turns your crank.

Just don't be part of the problem.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

9.1k · May 18, 2003

I agree with Harrald's observation. I deal with poor cache contents by leaving something nice, and taking nothing. If you want better cache contents, you can't expect everyone else to take care of the problem for you.

Northern Lights, I would like to respectfully disagree with your idea that trades ought to be limited to one item per team. Try that sometime with a group of kids along, after a half mile hike, and see how you do in enforcing that rule! The better rule: Everyone decides what item represents a fair trade, and the adult corrects any misjudgments. I'll usually throw in an extra item for good measure.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

2.6k · May 18, 2003

You know, I could really care less what is in the cache. It can be filled with golf balls, or gold bricks. I'm not in this for the trinkets and I kind of wonder about those who are. The log book is what I look for.

george

Wanna go for a ride?

1.4k · May 18, 2003

quote:
The Leprechauns wrote:
I deal with poor cache contents by leaving something nice, and taking nothing. If you want better cache contents, you can't expect everyone else to take care of the problem for you.

The problem here is that it is not MY responsibility (or YOURS) to replenish a cache -- the 'intended action' of every cacher is to trade fairly.

Trading a fast-food toy for something that is obviously worth much more than a buck is not fair no matter how you look at it.

It must be acknowledged however, that there is no obligation by anyone to trade fairly -- it is just something that is done out of a respect for the activity. Obviously, if everyone traded fairly there would be no disappointments at caches. This is what needs to be conveyed to the people that constantly leave trash in a cache.

Regarding trading with lot's of kids -- my 3 kids take turns doing the trading. We trade only one item per cache (there are a few exceptions but we always bring along an extra 1 or 2 items for these instances). The kids decide amongst themselves who will get to do the trading. Often, the kid whose turn it is doesn't find anything in the cache that interests them and they will step aside and give one of the others the opportunity to trade at that cache if they want. Since we usually do a few caches at a time, each of them generally come home at the end of the day with some sort of treasure.

If the kids are bringing a friend along, they either let their friend do the trading or they'll take more than one item to trade.

If there is a large group of kids trading at a cache I don't have a problem with them trading for six or seven (or more) items as long as:

1.) the cache has enough items in it to trade.

2.) each trade is fair.

3.) they log what they took and what they left.

Personally, I have only traded once or twice and really couldn't care less if there was nothing more than a log book but let's face it, for the most part, trading is for kids -- it adds to the excitement and fun for them.

The rule in our group is that you can only trade something that you'd like to find in a cache -- anything less just won't do.

-----

edited sp error.

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on May 18, 2003 at 11:06 PM.]

May 18, 2003

Even though I agree that is more the hunt than trinkets, I don't see how people who are just in it for the hunt shouldn't diss those who are in it for the trinkets. Some people have to quit like they're so high & mighty because they are just in it for the hunt.

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle

"Si nous ne r?ussissons pas nous courons le risque d'?chec."

- Dan Quayle (If he was French!) [Those crazy French!]

English: Radman Version 2.0

Spanish Versi?n 2,0 De Radman

Portuguese: Vers?o 2,0 De Radman

Italian: Versione 2,0 Di Radman

9.1k · May 18, 2003

Jomarac... good post (this time)... I agree with everything you wrote, with the possible exception of the first paragraph. The point that Harrald and I are trying to make is that, even though it's not any one geocacher's job to restock each cache they visit, adding a fifth, nice item to a cache with four crappy McToys in it is a START towards making ONE cache better. One cache at a time, one trade at a time.

I completely agree that the trade-down crowd is in serious need of re-education on the spirit of what this game is supposed to be about. They aren't treasure chests to be looted.

And God bless you if you can get your kids to take turns that way. Every time I've witnessed a group of kids finding a cache, it's like watching sharks at feeding time, or lawyers near an accident scene, or vultures feeding on fresh prey... oops, I'm getting redundant.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

May 18, 2003

i'm in a low-cache region, and so far, i've mostly left, not taken.

was amazed once to find a leaked bottle of wedding bubbles that someone had found next to a dumpster (so noted in the log) and added it.

*sigh*

some treasure.

but - you know, they did it with joy and thought it was a fun thing.

so good for them, i guess.

made up some sig items this weekend, and think i'll start leaving those along with a trinket until the assembled trinket box is emptied.

i'm in it for the log, and to leave something that i hope someone else will get a kick out of.

___________________________________

who's got the pig?

9.5k · May 18, 2003

I like to move items from cache to cache. Particularly if it is a music cd. I'll keep it for a few days, listen to it, then put it back in circulation so others can enjoy the same. With whatever I put in, I take whatever interests me at the moment, and then move it onto the next cache I can find.

Cheers!

TL

2.3k · May 18, 2003

Every item is valuable to SOMEONE. I didn't place a cache to see it traded up into Rolex watches and diamond rings. I do it for the hunt, and if someone happens to like what they see inside, then they can trade for it. (Unless, of course, you are the Cache Pirate and just take it ALL...)

Now get back to caching.....

5k · May 18, 2003

I almost always trade nothing, which is my mind, and even trade.

My favorite log entries (of which I've seen half a dozen or so) are those that say "Took the cool something or other, but we didn't have anything to trade. We'll be back later to put something in." To my knowledge, no one has ever returned to a cache to even up their trade.

Uh oh.. It's sin confession time. One time I was with a non-cacher. We found a cache deep in the woods. We left and went back to the car. After we drove away, she showed me the cool foreign coin she got out of the cache. Also, once I took an empty ziplock out of a cache cuz I needed a small plastic sack to hold my money on my bike.

Jamie

4.1k · May 18, 2003

We have placed a number of caches and have noticed that the more effort it takes to get to and find the cache the more equitable will be the trades. We have one friend who went to one of our caches and took a Winchester knife and left a promo keyring and saw nothing inequitable abut the trade. Human nature being what it is ......

5.9k · May 18, 2003

quote:
Which brings me to the question of...if you trade up everytime would the logs eventually read....took ATV...left keys to new Lincoln Town Car located in the parking lot...took Lincoln...left deed to the house on 303 Elm St.?

Hey, I saw that house and it's a pile of crap. I thought you were talking about trading up?

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

May 18, 2003

I don't mind these posts. What gets me is the same old group of folks who reply over and over about how they only care about the find & not what's in it. Well great! So quit posting about it & let others who care about what's in a cache discuss it.

On a sort of different note...I did a 3/4 cache yesterday, actually underrated. Had been trying to get to this one since February. I knew you had to likely cross some water but the cache description said nothing else. Ended up that the water was a very swiftly moving inlet flowing into the ocean. Most places were over my head but in a RARE FEW you could touch bottom but with your feet sinking way into the sand & making walking quite difficult, especially with the current. So anyway, yesterday I finally manage to get across the water! Woohoo, so excited, this cache must be great, right? Well, I'm only the second finder & was disappointed to say the least when I opened it to find a sucker, a worn out paper book of matches, an old lighter, a very worn out golf ball, a dirty coming apart tiny stuffed toy, a free keychain & an opened box of wire connectors. Turns out that the last two were left by the 1st finder. So right about then I'm wanting to find the cache hider & toss him into the inlet I had just crossed. I couldn't believe that any cacher would have the nerve to hide such a difficult cache & then fill it with trash! This same person has several others in our area that end up abandoned but other local cachers help keep them up. I'm not adopting this one tho because of the difficulty. No where on the cache page was any of that mentioned.

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

May 18, 2003

I have always been one to argue that it's not about the loot, but about the hunt....however, when I was caching recently in the Roseville area, I came across one of the best stocked caches I've ever seen. It had a wide variety of interesting items and relatively few (if any) junky ones. I was pleasantly surprised and seeing a well maintained cache actually made the experience more enjoyable. While I still think the hunt should come before the trade, I have to agree that when cachers take some time and effort into what they put into a cache (if they choose to trade at all) it boosts the overall quality of the find.

May 19, 2003

I finally got the chance to visit The Library of Yahtuul (GCB81D) last week and was very pleased. An ammo box packed full of books. I was about to trade up (leaving two books for one taken) but thought it would make the cache a little too full and instead leaft only one. This is one I plan to watch and come back to, especially if someone leaves a book I'm interested in reading. I have three books just waiting to go into this one.

I, too, am developing the habbit of moving items around. Took a few little plastic pigs, left a poison dart frog. Left the pigs in the next cache, took some plastic soldiers. Left the plastic soldiers in the next one, took a Mojo JoJo toy. (That one, I'm keeping.)

While the hunt is the important part, a box full of junk can take much of the satisfaction away from the victory. I don't mind

McToys so much but I dislike dross like business cards, advertising pens and other advertisements. I don't want to be sold something while I'm caching.

38.2k · May 19, 2003

I think part of the problem is that many people think leaving a lot of garbage items in return for one nice one is an even trade. I've seen logs like "took mini mag light, left a stone, an acorn, a toy soldier, a dime and a comb I found on the ground nearby"

Personally, if I think the cache is a nice one. Meaning it's hidden in an where where it's not likely to be plundered and in a container that won't be filled with water the next time it rains, I'll leave several nice items to upgrade the contents.

If anything I place in it is likely to be ruined because of a flimsy container, or if it's in a litter strewn lot, I won't bother.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

May 19, 2003

Ok, let me add fuel to the fire. Where do Travel Bugs fit in the scheme of an equitable trade? If I take a sleeve of new golf balls, is it fair to leave Skunk-o the TB? I know that the golf balls cost $2-5 depending on the type, but I will have use of them (until I lose them in the woods again, this time with no co-ords). I am leaving Skunk-o, but the whole idea of a TB is too perpetuate it's movement, therefore the finder will eventually (hopefully) be moving him on.

Now TB's add to your stats on your "my cache" page, and I find them fun to track. When I find a cache with a TB in it, that is what I will take. TB's hold a type of equity to me. I am looking for opinons regarding what a TB is worth to you, and where it falls in the realm of the original question.

Make a sanity check.

May 19, 2003

I'd agree with what Harrald and Lep have said, some caches are crying out for TN LSomething. It's not the finder's responsibility to add to a cache, it's just a nice thing to do.

Since everyone has different opinions on 'value', it's always a subjective judgement on trading 'even' (unless of course you're trading WG$ or are checking pricetags!). As long as some folks try to incrementally improve things, it goes a long way.

Sound corny - you bet. We could use some more corn.

"If someone did you a favor - something big, something you couldn't do on your own, and instead of paying it back, you paid it forward to three people...and the next day they each paid it forward to three more...and the day after that, those 27 people each paid it forward to another three...and each day, everyone in turn paid it forward to three more people...in two weeks, that comes to 4,782,969 people." - Pay It Forward

38.2k · May 19, 2003

quote:
Ok, let me add fuel to the fire. Where do Travel Bugs fit in the scheme of an equitable trade? If I take a sleeve of new golf balls, is it fair to leave Skunk-o the TB?

I don't consider a travel bug to be a trade item. It's something I leave, or take from a cache apart from the normal trade.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

6.4k · May 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:
The problem here is that it is not MY responsibility (or YOURS) to replenish a cache -- the 'intended action' of every cacher is to trade fairly.

Not trying to single Jomarac5 out here, just that one line summed up several posts pretty well.

No, there is no law or rule, and you aren't going to loose your geocaching stripes or some crap.

HOWEVER, it's still a NICE thing to do.

When I'm caching alone, I rarely trade, so I don't carry much in the way of trade items. What I do carry with me instead of mctoys are spare logbooks(normal and micro), ziplocks, stash notes, pencils/pens, duct tape, and even sometimes a spare container. Is it my responsibility (or YOURS) to repair a damaged cache? Nope, but hopefully I'm making the next person's cache experience better. Those that toss 2 nice things in for every broken mctoy they take are the reason some of us didn't quit after the first cache.

I found a new cache yesterday that was exceptionally well stocked, lots of $10-$20 items still there. The cache hider knew it would degrade. Still, since we had nothing equal to the high $ items, we traded a pen for a sig item pencel another cacher left. I felt better about leaving the good stuff for the next guy, even though the hider intended the cache to be traded down.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

3k · May 19, 2003

The mann always laughs at me for carrying so much stuff. I must be prepared to trade. I make items, I buy items, or I carry things I took out of other caches (books which I finished reading, puzzles I did, etc...)and I always try to trade up if not even. Sometimes I have to carry extra because the people I am with may want to trade for something, and have brought nothing (newbie or otherwise).

Lots of times I take nothing, leave something. I usually only leave nothing if it's a tiny container and they tell me to leave nothing.

A travel bug is not a trade item, it is a game piece. Feel free to take or leave one, but know it's goal, and don't trade with it.

The basics are simple: play nice, play fair.

Cache you later,

Planet

So many caches, so little time.

2.6k · May 19, 2003

quote:
Some people have to quit like they're so high & mighty because they are just in it for the hunt.

quote:
What gets me is the same old group of folks who reply over and over about how they only care about the find & not what's in it. Well great! So quit posting about it & let others who care about what's in a cache discuss it.

What really get's me is people explaining that they walk away from a cache disapointed because there wasn't a treasure chest inside.

Once you've been around long enough to see how many times this thread has come and gone you can start to let the trinket fetish go. Once you can reach that point you'll never walk away disapointed because of the contents. One of us is living in a world of disapointment. It's not me.

Caches get traded down. (period)

george

Wanna go for a ride?

1.1k · May 19, 2003

Just to throw my nickels worth in here, oopps - make that a buck as I want to trade up -, I have been leaving chunks of Silver Lake Oregon Arrowheads, spearpoints or stone tools in caches with a note as to what it is/might be and where it came from.

Valued at a couple bucks upwards of 20-30 bucks a pop. I have lots of these and and we drop them in all the caches, if we trade or not. Cheap? Depends on your point of view. I have gotten e-mails from people who have driven 30 plus miles to get one. But we also have other trade items as well. We also trade items from cache to cache.

And I agree with George, Caches get traded down. (period)

And there is nothing we can do about it.

But does it hurt to drop something into the cache? You did bring something to trade anyway, right?

Trading up has got to start somewhere so why not you ?

logscaler.

May 19, 2003

I tend to move items from cache to cache. I used to place items in caches and take nothing, but now I am a little more selective. If there is nothing in the cache that I would be comfortable leaving somewhere else I LNTN. The exceptions are if it was a really fun or interesting cache.

I may as well make another point that I consider a travel bug as one item. If you only leave one item, it doesn't make sense to me to take a travel bug and something else.

May 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TMAN264:
Ok, let me add fuel to the fire. Where do Travel Bugs fit in the scheme of an equitable trade? If I take a sleeve of new golf balls, is it fair to leave Skunk-o the TB?

I would absolutely say TBs are trade items. I cache mostly for TBs, in fact I don't think I've ever kept anything I've taken from a cache except for little utilitarian things like tissues. TBs add value to the cache because they attract people like me to come find it and (we hope) leave something good in exchange. At least that's what I always try to do.

May 19, 2003

Funny, since you don't know me it's interesting that you can tell me how I will one day feel. Seems to me that if what you say is true then this sport would have already shifted to having caches that were nothing but a log book & never have any trinkets inside.

I've never seen anyone say they think they will find a hidden treasure inside a cache. That's silly to even make a comment like that. But some of us do like finding the trinkets in the cache.

I don't expect gold but I do expect more than someone elses trash.

If you don't like the trinkets then great for you. Why do you keep coming to discussions about what's inside a cache? For those of us that do care about it it's a very valid topic and on the net I don't feel anything can ever be over discussed. There will always be new people and new ideas. If I had taken the opinion that things should only be discussed once on the net & then dropped then a lot of web sites would be useless now. 10 years ago stuff was discussed that is still brought up over and over today. I've never understood those who can't just stay away from topics they aren't interested in. Accept that not everyone shares your opinion & get on with life.

quote:

quote:
What gets me is the same old group of folks who reply over and over about how they only care about the find & not what's in it. Well great! So quit posting about it & let others who care about what's in a cache discuss it.

What really get's me is people explaining that they walk away from a cache disapointed because there wasn't a treasure chest inside.

Once you've been around long enough to see how many times this thread has come and gone you can start to let the trinket fetish go. Once you can reach that point you'll never walk away disapointed because of the contents. One of us is living in a world of disapointment. It's not me.

Caches get traded down. (period)

george

Wanna go for a ride?

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

2.6k · May 19, 2003

quote:
I did a 3/4 cache yesterday, actually underrated. Had been trying to get to this one since February. I knew you had to likely cross some water but the cache description said nothing else. Ended up that the water was a very swiftly moving inlet flowing into the ocean. Most places were over my head but in a RARE FEW you could touch bottom but with your feet sinking way into the sand & making walking quite difficult, especially with the current. So anyway, yesterday I finally manage to get across the water! Woohoo, so excited, this cache must be great, right? Well, I'm only the second finder & was disappointed to say the least when I opened it to find a sucker, a worn out paper book of matches, an old lighter, a very worn out golf ball, a dirty coming apart tiny stuffed toy, a free keychain & an opened box of wire connectors.

Here is what I would consider the start of a great adventure and you let the contents of the cache ruin it for you. I don't even remeber what is the boxes I find, I remember what it took to get there.

quote:
Funny, since you don't know me it's interesting that you can tell me how I will one day feel.

I guess I'm under the assumption that one day you can enjoy the trip and not the trinkets. I may be wrong, maybe you'll never just find the joy in the trip. Be prepared for much disapointment.

george

Wanna go for a ride?

1.4k · May 19, 2003

quote:
georgeandmary wrote:
Here is what I would consider the start of a great adventure and you let the contents of the cache ruin it for you. I don't even remeber what is the boxes I find, I remember what it took to get there.

A bit off topic georgeandmary. This is not a thread about which is better -- the hunt or the treasure. Your comments have nothing to do with degraded caches.

Posts that are not on topic are the reason for other people's frustration when they are trying to discuss a particular topic. Your opinions are most welcomed but try to keep them about the topic that is being discussed.

*****

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on May 20, 2003 at 12:59 AM.]

May 19, 2003

Trading fairly or trading up is ideal but it doesn't always happen. There will always be people leaving thier gum wrapper and an dime in exchange for a pen light or a fresh set of batteries. Complainign about poor trading isn't going to change people's trading practices. I often take thigns from cahces that are broken or dirty and i'll take something that i think i may enjoy playing with untill i find the next cache to leave it for the next 30 year old kid. And no matter what i find in a cache i always tend to leave a few things that i think will better the cache or i think a child finding it will enjoy. tube of glitter i get 3/$1 and a pocket watch that i pay 1-3 dollars for is almost a staple for our trades in additino to our sig Eeyore tails and if a cahe looks like it may need something for the biggr kids i carry a small variety of pretty or useful things. What I leave in a cache may not have a high total monetary value but I like to think that what I leave will be taken and enjoyed by someone.

Eeyore

I'm one sat short of triangulation.

May 19, 2003

Does anybody ever admit to leaving garbage in exchange for something good? All the handwringing about cache contents makes you think, so if everybody here always trades up, just who is it that's depleting the caches? Unless we are all a bunch of hypocrites the answer is, cachers who don't log their caches and certainly don't read these boards. Or maybe they are lurking, too ashamed to reveal themselves. If you're out there, cache depleters, yo momma. Everyone else, thanks for reading.

6.5k · May 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sugar Kane:
Does anybody ever admit to leaving garbage in exchange for something good? All the handwringing about cache contents makes you think, so if everybody here always trades up, just who is it that's depleting the caches?

Unless we are all a bunch of hypocrites the answer is, cachers who don't log their caches and certainly don't read these boards.

I think it may be those that don't read anything (FAQs, Foras, etc), regardless if they log or not. Haven't you seen logs like " took (whatever), left the bottle cap I found in the parking lot"?

May 19, 2003

I agree with El Diablo. For me and my wife the real treasure is spending time together doing something outside of the house. Naturally I want to leave what I consider to be quality/worthwhile items for the next geocacher that comes along. But I don't let the eveness of the "trade" effect our fun in finding them.

I was born in the dark, but it wasn't last night..."

May 19, 2003

I try to trade up, or if nothing catches my eye, a least leave something. The dollar store is a treasure trove of goodies. And pick up some trash on your way out.

Fishingfools

Don't sweat the petty things, don't pet the sweaty things.

38.2k · May 19, 2003

quote:
What really get's me is people explaining that they walk away from a cache disapointed because there wasn't a treasure chest inside.

Once you've been around long enough to see how many times this thread has come and gone you can start to let the trinket fetish go. Once you can reach that point you'll never walk away disapointed because of the contents. One of us is living in a world of disapointment. It's not me.

Caches get traded down. (period)

Yeah, for veteran geocachers that's fine, but for families with kids and new geocachers, the treasure is an important part of this sport (and some long time geocachers still enjoy trading). The log is still there for all the the "TNLN snobs". Why can't a cache have nice items for families, new geocachers and people who enjoy trading as much as they enjoy the hunt?

I've been around long enough to see dozens of versions of this thread. There are lot of smug veteran geocachers who dismiss trading, as if the the concept is below them. Some people like trading, so what's the problem with leaving nice stuff for other people to find and what's so wrong about expecting to find something halfway decent in a cache after you made an effort to find it.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 19, 2003 at 04:35 PM.]

May 19, 2003

I'm not a big trader, but I do like to leave something of some value or interest, or nothng at all. A lot depends on what's in my bag, what the cache is like or what the area around the cache is like. Junk is junk, but some junk is cool junk. Last week I left a multi-$$ CD of images of earth from space in a 1/1 cache because the park I was caching in hosted a major model rocketry show. Coincidence put the CD and the rocket show in the same place at the same time, as I had no idea that the show was occurring until I arrived. What did I take? A NASA patch dropped off by another cacher earlier that day. That was a cool and memorable trade. I hope that another rocketeer/cacher took the CD. (I know from real and virtual logs that someone the same day was at the cache.)

In other caches, like BrianSnat, I have to assess the worth of the cache before I drop an item. In the same park I dropped off a geode, because the cache was much harder and more isolated. Others in the park, I left as was, or added a minor item (a colorful S. American Knit geo-Swag Bag, a couple of foreign coins, etc.)

Signing the log and the cache page is primary, but if there's an added bonus of an item that is eclectic enough to be an interesting trade, to keep or to pass on later, then that's good. Why not?

"All of us are standing in the mud, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

May 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:
Here is what I would consider the start of a great adventure and you let the contents of the cache ruin it for you. I don't even remeber what is the boxes I find, I remember what it took to get there.

I don't consider putting my life in danger because someone failed to clearly state the risks in the cache page the start of a great adventure. I never said the contents ruined it for me. I had fun but was extremely disappointed at what was in the cache container. It could have been a great cache if the hider had stated more clearly what you would have to do to get to it and hadn't posted that it was full of goodies.

quote:
I guess I'm under the assumption that one day you can enjoy the trip and not the trinkets. I may be wrong, maybe you'll never just find the joy in the trip. Be prepared for much disapointment.

george

Wanna go for a ride?

I quite often enjoy the trip. Getting outside is part of the reason I started caching. I have hiked and camped for years and years and know what it is to simply enjoy just being out going somewhere. That's not totally why I geocache tho & it's not up to you or anyone else to tell me why I cache. And again, if you're so correct about the trinkets then why hasn't Jeremy just totally done away with them & said caches can only have logs? It would certainly make things easier on him and in your view make most other cachers happy.

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

May 19, 2003

Now back to the trading discussion. Yes, it bums me to see a cache full of junk but really there's nothing I can do to make people change what they leave. Most of the time I just empty out the obvious junk and replace it with something good. All of my stuff is new and I make a point of not buying anything that I wouldn't be buying for myself to use. I've now started a golf ball collection that I'm gathering up out of all the area caches. I'm in a huge golf area & tourists come down & seem to think leaving their used golf balls is gonna make someone really happy. One cache I cleaned out the other day was nearly 1/3 full of old golf balls. I'm actually thinking of turning all of them into another area cache and designating it as where everyone can come and drop off all their junk golf balls so they don't clutter up the other caches.

One good thing about being in a tourist town is that you get to run into other cachers on the trail a lot. This is a perfect opportunity to have a friendly conversation about trade items. Maybe some people don't know that what they're leaving is so looked down upon.

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache

8.4k · May 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TMAN264:
Ok, let me add fuel to the fire. Where do Travel Bugs fit in the scheme of an equitable trade? If I take a sleeve of new golf balls, is it fair to leave Skunk-o the TB? I know that the golf balls cost $2-5 depending on the type, but I will have use of them (until I lose them in the woods again, this time with no co-ords). I am leaving Skunk-o, but the whole idea of a TB is too perpetuate it's movement, therefore the finder will eventually (hopefully) be moving him on.

Now TB's add to your stats on your "my cache" page, and I find them fun to track. When I find a cache with a TB in it, that is what I will take. TB's hold a type of equity to me. I am looking for opinons regarding what a TB is worth to you, and where it falls in the realm of the original question.

TMAN, I like your question because it has been on my mind and I haven't looked really hard for a thread on it. I'm guessing this should be a whole other thread, but here goes:

First off; I'm one of those "seek only for the seeking" types and I'm guilty for posting that on another thread. That said, I have made a trade at every cache except one, or two, that I can think of. Sometimes I have traded up and sometimes I have traded down. It matters not to me because 98.9% will go back into another cache. I have adopted one rule that I got from another cacher; If there's change, or money in the cache (Not Where's George $$) it's mine. I assume that the last cacher left it to help pay my toll charges, or gas. (See my thread: What has Geocaching Cost you)

Now to the travel bug question: IMHO, A travel bug is personal property that has been left in public trust, therefore, if you trade anything for it; you are trading up. That travel bug does not become yours and if you're like me you are expending gas and effort to move it along. Most owners are very appreciative of this. I dig travel bugs and the likelihood of nabbing one will more often than not be the deciding factor for which caches I go for first on a given day of caching. I know a few cachers that have considered that question (TRADE OR NOT) and now leave nothing in place of a travel bug. I don't blame them. When I finally run out of corporate swag, I will probably do the same.

As for the argument going on all over this thread; I now see both sides of the argument and both sides have valid points. My opinion is the same. I'm in it for the hunt, the location, the hide, the puzzle, the log, and most especially for the most excellent Texas Geocachers that I have met along the way. They have been the greatest treasure of all.

Sngans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....

3.9k · May 19, 2003

Now who would have thought that such a previous well talked out topic would get this much response

I can see good points on both sides of the discussion here. I guess I'm what you guys would consider a oldtimer around here. I don't care what is in the cache. I have never gone looking for a cache with any thought as to what was in it.

Someone wrote..and I'm too lazy to scroll up to see who...that when they find a cache that is full of junk, they email the owner to come spruce it back up. I've hidden 10 caches, most of them originally cost me 30.00 or more each. I'll be damned...(well actually I am damned..I'm El Diablo ) if I'm going to go back out and add another 30.00 to it just so it can be plundered again.

Enjoy this sport for what it is...a lot of fun, a chance to meet other people, spend time with your family and friends and buy high tech toys!

Think back on the first cache you ever found...was the greatest joy in finding it...or the thought of what it might hold?

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

2.6k · May 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:
I don't consider putting my life in danger because someone failed to clearly state the risks in the cache page the start of a great adventure.

Maybe you should take all those golfballs you've been collecting and pick a safer sport.

Under you list of complaints you have

1) The cache was harder than described

and

2) the cache was not full of good stuff.

Fore!!!!

george

Wanna go for a ride?

Has anyone else noticed...

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