Theft. The inevitable death of a geocache?

[+ByronForestPreserve]

Four of my five caches have been stolen. What's even worse, I have gone geocaching three times this year for multiple caches and am finding that quite often they have been stolen. One "cache" was just a small abandoned cemetery in the woods - legitimate, but hardly worth the effort and excitement. I've seen empty containers with the tops removed and other evidence. Even worse, a greater number of caches are being placed in terrible locations such as back yards, between houses and apartment complexes. Others are being placed by local businesses as ads to draw customers to their doorstep. This became obvious to me last weekend when I was searching for a cache using two GPS devices: both led me to the exact same spot in the wide-open middle of a Red Robin restaurant parking lot. I'm sure you can imagine the embarrassment of being seen looking around in circles in some of the types of places I described here. If this is the future of geocaching, frankly I can't be bothered.

 

In my immediate rural area, the process of driving to the general proximity of a prospective cache is tedious: too many business and apartment parking lots making it confusing as to which side the cache is on. Often, I end up lot-hopping. Caches out in the country and remote areas are much more fun and interesting to find, and can offer great scenic views and discoveries of unknown places.

 

In my opinion, geocaching is best left to remote locations. Ones around the city seem more likely to be placed by children and those who have little idea what the sport is about.

 

Wide open middle of a parking lot?

 

 

There is plenty of debate about whether these are decent hides or not, but you might have overlooked a place or two. Obviously log a DNF in such cases...if you are concerned or curious, put it on your watch list and wait to see if someone else finds it, or not, or if there's owner maintenance, etc.

 

It does stink to hear about stolen caches. We're pretty fortunate around here--I've found one or two opened containers that people have obviously found and gotten into, but generally they just scatter contents but leave everything. The cache closest to my house is, no joke, a Lock 'n' Lock just sitting in the open...it was behind some kind of ornamental grass that was cut for the winter and there is no cammo whatsoever. I have no idea how it's still there, as it's pretty much lying exposed in a slightly raised landscaping bed off the sidewalk in a residential neighborhood. *shrugs*

[Pup Patrol]

Four of my five caches have been stolen.

 

If you've confirmed that the container is gone, and you have no intention of replacing it, you need to post an "archive" log, not a "disable" log.

 

http://coord.info/GC3CZYG

 

http://coord.info/GC2728Y

 

Help Center → Geocaching → Cache Ownership: A Long-Term Relationship

 

6.13. Permanent Removal: Archiving a Cache

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=56

 

Help Center → Geocaching → Cache Ownership: A Long-Term Relationship

 

6.12. Temporarily Disable and Enable

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=235

 

 

B.

[+cerberus1]

Four of my five caches have been stolen. What's even worse, I have gone geocaching three times this year for multiple caches and am finding that quite often they have been stolen. One "cache" was just a small abandoned cemetery in the woods - legitimate, but hardly worth the effort and excitement. I've seen empty containers with the tops removed and other evidence. Even worse, a greater number of caches are being placed in terrible locations such as back yards, between houses and apartment complexes. Others are being placed by local businesses as ads to draw customers to their doorstep. This became obvious to me last weekend when I was searching for a cache using two GPS devices: both led me to the exact same spot in the wide-open middle of a Red Robin restaurant parking lot. I'm sure you can imagine the embarrassment of being seen looking around in circles in some of the types of places I described here. If this is the future of geocaching, frankly I can't be bothered.

Why not post your findings on the cache pages, where useful information of maintenance or location issues would do some good?

Posting here doesn't help the area you're concerned with.

According to your profile, you haven't found a cache since 2010.

[+DragonsWest]

A cache disappears, repeatedly.

 

Option A: Archive it, throw in the towel, open the space for someone else.

 

Option B: A battle of wits ensues.

 

I have two small caches which continue to go missing. Usually with a period of weeks or months of continuity before they vanish each time, usually independed of each other. In both cases they are hidden in a large city park where there are a considerable number of vagrants, drug users, etc. (Note: These are generally not Homeless people, but people who elect this lifestyle through addiction or other behaviour which prevents them obtaining a bed in a shelter, shelters do have rules, after all) I'm pretty certain the people who are taking them are not cache thieves, but people of limited means (as mentioned above) who take them out of curiousity or as some place to keep their stashes.

 

I'm determined to keep these caches going.

 

Some movement is possible, within the confines of the open space between cache radii. Then means of hide (move it up, into something, under something, and so on) Lastly camo. These caches have only had the camo of the paint scheme I have used. A hollow log, a bunch of glued on vines, and such are prospects to keep them going. There's also the prospect of making them very unattractive to would-be cache takers - attach them to a chunk of cement or glue a heavy weight inside which makes them a real burden to carry away. There's also tethering, but I'm opposed to that at the moment as I don't want to be indirectly responsible for the damage to plants or fixtures by someone pulling hard to take a cache. I could also make these containers look like a pile of feces, but I'm concerned there are already several deposits of the actual item in the park.

 

There's plenty of food for thought. I'm determined to prevail.

[+6NoisyHikers]

The first cache we ever found was stolen several times before the CO gave up. It was hidden under a fishing pier where questionable people would seek shelter and privacy to do whatever it was they were doing. Each time, the contents were dumped out on the ground and only the container was taken. Lock n locks keep more than just swag and logbooks dry

[Zerpersande]

I've lost a couple. One was a snail shell, filled with epoxy for strength with a plastic vial glued on. A kid probably saw it. Another was a result of 'tree trimming', which in Japan means cutting almost every branch from small trees. Happens along trails too. Another was hidden in plain view and I guess just got spotted.

 

A few of my caches I would hate to see go missing due to the amount of time I spent making them and finding a hiding place for them. But if a few people have found the cache, well, I've got more. And every time I go out to check a DNF, which I may make a minor side-trip to check with just one DNF, I have replacements. No big deal.

[GPS-Hermit]

For a cache to live a long and properous life - several things CAN be considered! This applies only to someone finding the cache that is not playing the game!

 

What goes on in the area where the cache is hidden. Hunters, and Bushwackers go way off trail and could find the cache.

Cover the cache COMPLETELY and don't line up the sticks in a row side by side.

Would someone passing by say "What the heck is THAT" - Slam Dunk appearances will always be investigated by anyone.

Can a muggle easily see someone finding the cache - Finders can help with this one. You can do more. Try to find a place where it is hard to see what is going on from a distance. People really want to know what is going on - when you leave they will go find out what that guy was up to. Don't depend on Finders to always help you here by being stealthy!

Multiple ways to access and leave the cache. This will avoid a path to the cache!

Need to have multiple potential hiding spots all of which look natural. A Finder will look at all of them.

Visit the cache site often to correct those that don't put it back right - some will help you out by making it easier to find.

Tell everyone not to yell out "I FOUND IT"! "I found a neat bug" is much better! Good luck on that one!

Color the cache to it's surrounding - the color of an ammo box does pretty good most of the time. If you can do better go for it!

Let something natural help hide the cache from a casual observer. A pile of sticks by themselves is a giveaway! Miscellaneous logs and rocks and sticks near the hide are natural - pick a spot that already has this - don't move stuff to the area.

Don't use plastic containers - the animals just love to chew on them - they steal too and find them fun to play with. Bears and Raccoons at the top of the list.

 

The main thing is to put much thought out of a muggles head as you can and try to figure out at your location how it can go wrong.

 

Its great to keep a good cache going but it is up to you to help learn how to do it.

 

Much better to have a few quality caches that last than to get in a hurry to put one out there!

 

If someone just simply wants to steal your cache using a GPS to find it - none of this will help!

Good LUCk!

[Clan Riffster]

Something I would add to GPS-Hermit's most excellent advice:

Use a tether. It doesn't have to be a logging chain. The key is that you are not trying to stop the dedicated cache thief. Nothing can do that. You are only trying to stop forces of nature, critters and curious muggles. A tether does this quite nicely. It announces for all to see that the rather odd looking box they found behind the pine tree actually belongs at that location. It also keeps the cache from drifting away during floods and being carried away by critters.

[+Mick McPhee]

One cacher contacted me as I have about 50 caches out and many in ammo cans. The cacher suggested I delete the word "ammo can" and use large container instead as they have lost all of their ammo cans to someone looking to take them. Their cans were metal and cost about $15 each and mine are plastic which I bought on sale for $5 each but I did as they suggested and edited the descriptions.

[+ruralseeker]

One cacher contacted me as I have about 50 caches out and many in ammo cans. The cacher suggested I delete the word "ammo can" and use large container instead as they have lost all of their ammo cans to someone looking to take them. Their cans were metal and cost about $15 each and mine are plastic which I bought on sale for $5 each but I did as they suggested and edited the descriptions.

 

$5 each for plastic ammo cans? You must share who your supplier is. I can't find a plastic ammo can for less than $10, and due to the humid weather here, I like that idea over replacing a rusted out metal one every five years. Is it a durable, reinforced plastic?

[+Scratch Ankle]

Reading this thread it strikes that like the one on trackables, many people don't understand the concept of the cost of doing business. This is a hobby and it has costs associated to lost caches or trackables. If you play tennis you don't buy just one tennis ball, in golf you don't buy just one golf ball, in fishing you don't buy just one lure. You're going to lose them. For me, it's fishing and I lose lures. I can mitigate it by not throwing lures near places where they will snag and break off but that's pretty much where the fish are. You don't catch many fish throwing lures where the fish aren't.

 

So if you're going to do caches or play with trackables, you're going to lose some. You can mitigate it but you're still going to lose some. So you can place a cache in a city park easily accessible to everyone but also being in danger of being vandalized, lost to the lawnmowers, or animals. You can mitigate that by putting it 10 miles out in the country where fewer people will find it and you won't lose it near as often. Decide which you prefer and then do the best you can to mitigate losses. But there will be losses.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

Reading this thread it strikes that like the one on trackables, many people don't understand the concept of the cost of doing business. This is a hobby and it has costs associated to lost caches or trackables. If you play tennis you don't buy just one tennis ball, in golf you don't buy just one golf ball, in fishing you don't buy just one lure. You're going to lose them. For me, it's fishing and I lose lures. I can mitigate it by not throwing lures near places where they will snag and break off but that's pretty much where the fish are. You don't catch many fish throwing lures where the fish aren't.

 

So if you're going to do caches or play with trackables, you're going to lose some. You can mitigate it but you're still going to lose some. So you can place a cache in a city park easily accessible to everyone but also being in danger of being vandalized, lost to the lawnmowers, or animals. You can mitigate that by putting it 10 miles out in the country where fewer people will find it and you won't lose it near as often. Decide which you prefer and then do the best you can to mitigate losses. But there will be losses.

 

Would you feel the same way if there was someone under the water, cutting off and taking your lures when you cast them into the river?

[+cerberus1]

Never mind...

Edited April 19, 2013 by cerberus1

[+Scratch Ankle]

Having someone cut off my lures would not be something I like. But if I found someone was under water cutting my lures off I would mitigate the problem by moving to some place where someone isn't under water cutting my lures off.

 

I will repeat the basic point -- people will steal a cache, others will vandalize (in a local one someone put a used condom in it), kids will find them and think the world of that McDonald's toy not knowing any better, the city will decide to clean up that overgrown lot where you hid a cache (as I saw happen earlier this week), an animal will find it and play with it, a flood will carry it off, and the list goes on and on. There are none of those ways of losing a cache that would make me happy but if I'm going to put out a cache I accept that I am taking a chance of losing it.

 

You do what you can reasonable do to reduce your losses but you cannot eliminate them. My son lived in a low crime area, locked his doors and windows, and had smoke detectors and fire extinguishers. That did not stop someone from breaking in, stealing several items, and setting fire to the place. You think I'm happy about that? Risks were as low as was reasonably possible but it still happened and it happens somewhere everyday.

 

Now lets get back to reality here. We're talking about a cache with a couple of dollars of trinkets and some sweat. It isn't the end of the world when one disappears. But if the sadness of the loss exceeds the enjoyment of placing caches then you need to stop placing them. Otherwise recognize that while the losses will diminish the enjoyment it doesn't eclipse it and accept it as the cost of doing business. My opinion, YMMV, and that is just fine.

[+cerberus1]

Now lets get back to reality here. We're talking about a cache with a couple of dollars of trinkets and some sweat.

Not always.

A TB or two and a few geocoins (at 10 -15 avg ea) could easily make that "cache with trinkets" worth a few bucks.

Some TB Hotels may have over a hundred dollars worth of trackables in them.

- Just eight coins and a TB covers that.

It also affects all the owners of those trackables, besides the cache owner.

- So the TB Hotel with eight coins and a TB actually involves a loss to ten people when it comes up missing.

[+stijnhommes]

Nope, the inevitable death of geocaching will be fear. Land owners who fear liability and stop allowing caches on their land.

People who fear terrorism and call the bomb squad on caches. And so on...

[+Scratch Ankle]

Understood that it affects 10 people. I have not said it's right that it happens, just that it is inevitable that some of them are going to disappear or get damaged. I have specifically said it is not something that fills anybody with joy when it does happen. The point that you do not seem to get is that each person needs to understand that it is possible that some will disappear or be vandalized and then decide whether the loss of their items will be so earth shattering to them as kill their enjoyment of the game. If so, don't play the game because you can't change the fact that things will disappear. And it doesn't matter if there are 1000 at the hotel -- each person decides whether it is an acceptable risk. If 10 people decide that it was not an acceptable risk then there would only be 990 items there and all are owned by people who decided it was an acceptable risk and have not had their world ended because they individually lost something of minor value.

 

Let's get it real clear - it is not right when someone steals or vandalizes something whether it's worth 20 cents or $20 or $20,000. However, it is not the end of the world when someone steals or vandalizes your cache. It wasn't the end of the world when my son's house was burgled and set fire to but is sure was a major problem and still is. That is something to get up in arms about. Losing a cache is not. I hope you're not thinking that we need to go hunt down the people who do this stuff maliciously and kill them for it. A lost cache is not worth all the drama that some people seem to think it is.

 

For myself, my wife and I have ordered some trackables. We fully realize that once we release them the odds of ever having them in our hands again is very low. The point of releasing them is so they travel and not sit in on a shelf in our house. We further realize that some or all of them may be lost in the first month and from our reading that isn't unusual. So while we won't be happy when/if it happens we won't be devastated either. Life will go on for us.

[+Mn-treker]

Was it people or critter?

Or was it nature?

I have lost containers to all of the above. What do you do? Just deal with it and move on.

Choose a different type and location,

[+cerberus1]

Just lost 2 of my caches. Why do people have to take them?!?! I will find out who took them......

Good luck with that.

Did you replace both already?

One says "Going to replace it soon", but neither are temp-disabled in the meantime.

If someone loaded a bunch on their GPSr, they wouldn't see your note 'til too late, for a wasted trip.

[+narcissa]

I think that a lot of the time, it's just uptight people whose knee-jerk reaction is "THIS SHOULDN'T BE HERE" and then they just take the cache and throw it away.

 

There are also weird people who will pretend that public land belongs to them. My husband once had a woman march across a wide street and across a park (actually, land that is part of a UNESCO World Heritage Site) to tell him to get off her property. He had to be at least 150m away from her front door, and certainly not anywhere close to her property by any reasonable definition of "close."

 

I've had people tell me that I can't park on the street in front of their house. Uh, yeah, I can, it's a public street.

 

These are the same crazy sorts of people who will steal geocaches because they are just misanthropes who don't want anyone having fun within sight of them.

[+BlackRose67]

I think that a lot of the time, it's just uptight people whose knee-jerk reaction is "THIS SHOULDN'T BE HERE" and then they just take the cache and throw it away.

 

There are also weird people who will pretend that public land belongs to them. My husband once had a woman march across a wide street and across a park (actually, land that is part of a UNESCO World Heritage Site) to tell him to get off her property. He had to be at least 150m away from her front door, and certainly not anywhere close to her property by any reasonable definition of "close."

 

I've had people tell me that I can't park on the street in front of their house. Uh, yeah, I can, it's a public street.

 

These are the same crazy sorts of people who will steal geocaches because they are just misanthropes who don't want anyone having fun within sight of them.

One local example is the lady across the street from model12's letterbox along West Hunt Club. Many issues with that old girl.

 

Then there is the NCR ammo can thief....

[rockey1]

Since April 2008 my cache has been found and never bothered with. It's in an area that no one would go unless you are looking for a geocache. Someone must of taken a friend, extra parent, co-worker to find mine and that person came back and removed it for their pleasure. I had a lot of interesting things in it. DVD's, Sunglasses, water pistols and even a trackable was inside. Sad that someone would do this Anyways I put out a smaller less expensive peanut jar, filled it with goodies about 1/3 of the original size. Maybe if we took away the "FREE" app maybe this stealing would slow down. Have a great day.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1B02P_12th-hole-add-a-stroke

 

rockey1

[+Path Pacer]

This is a depressing thread to read, but I'm glad I'm not alone. I've lost two of my trackables to stolen caches (although my geocoin might have been stolen before the cache was).

[hossjulia]

One person's cache is another person's trash. Might explain the majority of these.

[Spurges]

One person's cache is another person's trash. Might explain the majority of these.

 

I have never hidden a cache, so I have no direct experience with the loss of one of my own. However, the guidelines are clear; caches are to be labeled. I can't tell you the last time I found one that was labeled (except for the Precint 4 GeoChallenge). Even a lock-n-lock can look like trash after sitting outdoors for a few months.

 

 

Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

I. 2. Label your geocache.

 

To avoid confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label it as a "geocache" and include the GC code on the outside of the container. Transparent containers help to show that the contents are harmless. If the container has any military markings, we recommend permanently covering these or removing them. Include a printed "cache note" inside your cache to explain what it is and to provide a brief description of geocaching.

(emphasis added)

 

For those uneducated in geocaching, the "Official Geocache - Do not Disturb" label, might be enough to give them pause. Obviously, it is not going to stop the determined vandal; but it might prevent the loss by someone who thinks they are picking up litter or otherwise cleaning up the area. I think it would certainly cut down on park employees removing them, who maybe know about geocaching, but are keeping their area of responsibility clean and tidy.

 

It would be interesting to know the disappearance rate of labeled caches vs. un-labeled. Maybe it's not any different? I don't know.

[+jellis]

Some of mine go missing, some taken by landscapers, some I hate to say it but other cachers and some are still there but cachers just aren't finding them.

[knowschad]

I had a cache go missing a while back. It was a small lock & lock that was hanging by a 20' length of camo paracord. The cord was tied to a tree and the cache was hanging off a sheer cliff. The last log on it was a Found It, but I was in the park and decided to check up on it... for no better reason than that I was the cache owner, and I was there.

 

If you knew where to stand and where to look, you could see the cache. I stood there and looked, and I could not see the cache, nor could I see the paracord that it was hung from. I kept scanning the ground below when I thought maybe I saw something. While most wouldn't guess it, there IS a way to climb down the bluff, and I did so. Once down, I found the lid to the Lock & Lock, but no sign of the rest of the container, or the log or any swag. And no paracord. Odd. I took the lid with me. When I got home, I disabled the cache.

 

Fast-forward a month or so. I was back in the park but this time looking for mushrooms. I was far from where the cache had been hidden... it wasn't even on my mind. I was looking for morels. But as I was looking around, I spotted a large oak tree with a burl that caught my attention. I walked over to get a better look, and noticed that the tree had a hollow spot beneath the odd burl. And there, in the hollow spot, was the rest of my cache! The log, the container, and the swag, less the lid and the cord!!! This was about 1/3 of a mile from GZ.

[+niraD]

My first cache was stolen and muggled repeatedly. So it met the "inevitable death" a few times in its short life.

 

I recently archived a cache that had been in place for more than 8 years. During that time, I replaced the container once because the camouflage had worn out. And I finally archived it not because it was stolen/muggled, but because the property was sold and the garden the cache featured was no longer there. But in more than 8 years, it wasn't stolen.

 

My third cache is still going strong. It was temporarily disabled for several months due to construction, and then I had to redesign the container and camouflage to fit the construction changes. And then I had to replace a broken container. But in more than 8 years, it hasn't been stolen.

[knowschad]

I had a cache (an ammo box) go missing, so I put out a replacement. A few weeks later, the ammo can was back.

[+Path Pacer]

I had a cache (an ammo box) go missing, so I put out a replacement. A few weeks later, the ammo can was back.

You have weird cache experiences.

[knowschad]

I had a cache (an ammo box) go missing, so I put out a replacement. A few weeks later, the ammo can was back.

You have weird cache experiences.

 

Thanks.