Geospatial Infrastructure Executive Order 12906

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

What type of Information do you think that they will allow the Public at Large to have? This at this date is a hypothetical question to the future policies that (our Government) is about to and have embarked to fulfill.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[+The Leprechauns]

My guess is that nothing will change. If no changes were made after 9/11/01, what will be that different about the situation domestically after 12/04/02?

 

Oh, crap. I just gave away the date for the invasion of Iraq. Don't tell anyone, OK?

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Please attend our seminar, "Geocaching for Time Travelers," which will be held two weeks ago.

[iryshe]

What does this have to do with Geocaching?

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

If we are using the equiptment(GPS) to locate benchmarks,or caches,people, places and things then the acuuracy of such would be what the questions are about.All the coordinates on the maps we are using are based on this geospatial data.In my work some points are well defined and others do not match the current info given. This quiery is basicly a look into the future on my part to see if the will,and opinions of the people is what will be portrayed back to us. Homeland Security. I have been looking for a way to get the data since I began over 7 years ago, alot has changed since then,slow but we are starting to get some of the data sets and places like geocaching.com have come to the forefront with this technology.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

 

[This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on November 12, 2002 at 10:05 AM.]

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Could be Homeland Defense, Maybe they are moving them around to use them over there,Thought that I might throw this out again..

I think that date is the 8th.

When all else fails Geotry again.

[+Sissy-n-CR]

Well, they've already shown that they like to implement programs and studies without the public's knowledge. One thing I fear is them forcing manufacturers to put small tramsmitters in our GPSr's so when we pass through one of those store "security" devices it downloads everywhere we've been. The only way to stop it is to completely remove the batteries as the units will not actually turn off--much like your digital satellite TV receivers. You know they can make those transmitters really small because they already fit in a postage stamp sized sticker--that's what they're trying to "disable" when they are swiping your item across that "disablizer." Plus, here in this very site, you've seen posts about GPSr's setting off those things, so you know what I'm saying it true. It probably the start of the real-world tests.

 

A little while ago, CNN got into some serious trouble for investigating and reporting a governement "study" where they were putting little black boxes in people's cars. CNN had to quickly drop the story and apparently the other news outlets received "visits" from some friendly public servants. That's why you didn't hear much about it.

 

Anyway, it was supposed to be a study on auto safety and driver contribution to accidents. After the car is totaled, workers posing as mechanics seeking parts would remove the part or download the data on the spot. They were able to take this data back and analyse it. They could tell where that car had been for the past 4(!) months--even retrieve the person's last words.

 

Obviously, they didn't want the public to know about this, mainly, because of "privacy" reasons. You know, they might get sued if they happened to capture some married guy riding around a lot with some woman who was not his wife. Yikes! Remember the fiasco about the photo-radar speeding tickets? The guys is speeding along and the photo-radar snaps a picture. They send the picture and a ticket to his home, but the wife opens it to see him riding around with an ex-girlfriend that he says he hadn't seen for years. So they had to stop that.

 

Anyway, apparently the study did turn up some interesting insights. The main cause for all auto accidents was inattentiveness; people talking on the phone, putting on makeup, reading, eating while driving, etc. They could hear enough to ascertain what was going on--you know, like people talking, or the background noise, whatever.

 

There was one striking difference here in SC, though. Apparently, here the last words were quite often, "Hey ya'll! Watch this!"

 

Anyway, keep those GPSr's home when not caching or wrap them in tin-foil!

 

CR

 

[Cache Canucks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

"...One thing I fear is them forcing manufacturers to put small tramsmitters in our GPSr's so when we pass through one of those store "security" devices it downloads everywhere we've been..."

---

When I first read this, I shook my head and thought 'Here we go, another person seeing black helicopters behind every cloud'. Then I re-read it and realised that, although you're being hypothetical, the scenario you're presenting has a lot in common with one that is currently the subject of some very real legal debate up here in Canada.

[+carivercpl]

Well some here in the good old USA would disagree with Cache Canucks because of what happen in new york...we share an "Open" border with are friends up north and down south, more so with the north...We already have a "system" like that here in place, called the INS...and yes most of the Feds computers are starting to get linked...No please im no wacko that wants a wall around us...but i have spent years in the mideast and i really dont like want i saw there and really dont wish that to happen here...type in tracking device into a search engine...they are there...we use them to put into criminals and such...so keep looking over your shoulderbecause they are watching

[Cache Canucks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by carivercpl:

"...Well some here in the good old USA would disagree with Cache Canucks because of what happen in new york..."

---

Disagree with what? There was simply a logical parallel drawn between a comment in one of the previous posts of this thread and a current debate involving civil liberties. In fact, unless you read more into my original post than what I wrote, I don't see that I stated an 'opinion' to be agreed or disagreed with either way. Now, if you disagree with what was written in the news article, that's a different story ...but disagree with the article, not with me.

 

Not every forum post invites confrontation y'know...

[+infosponge]

Could you elaborate more Trailblazer? I looked up that XO, which was signed by Clinton in 1994. It looked to me that it just established standards and set up a federal clearinghouse for geospatial information.

Did I miss something?

[+carivercpl]

not with you at all...I was just stating my view of the article...i was just trying to say that it seem that we are moving that way and alot of folks here are "running scared"and I would not put it pass "Big Brother" to start placing tracking devices in all sort of things or doing other things in the name of security...again sorry about the misunderstanding...

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

When I first started looking into Presidential Patents on My Land,The information was nearly 0 on the Coordinates or the actual field notes of the Public Land Survey System in our area.I have the Old books (1909 PLSS),Public Land Survey System,and the paperwork to the Louisiana Purchase from Washington D.C.1865.The Original Plats from the Homestead Act.This 1909 Plat of the County has the Analysis for the U.S Surveys,Principal Meridians and Guide Meridians for the entire U.S.Basing all this Mathmatical Formulae into the GPSr several (7)years ago I retraced the original trails,routes and land boundries governed thereby.Until that time no one had done the enitire States with the GPSr and was told that I could not do it??? Well since then/the Geoid,which I can trace to its start,just notice the dates,The Space Topography Mission by the Space Suttle Endevor and the recent adjustments to the Grid.I have found the proof on the ground with several Triangulation Stations and their Azimuthal directions,deflections of the vertical.I have talked to scientists whom have asked how and where I got all this info. The Old Books....A PICTURE is worth 100000000 words.Especially a 93 year old map of the entire U.S. and World.This Coordinate System is the Same one that Thomas Jefferson started with the U.S Coast and Geodetic Survey.For our (National) Defense from Ocean to Ocean.Back to the Louisiana Purchase again.This info has been fairly confidential for some time,Geospatial Data. I guess we just have to be smart enough to (figure)it out..

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

When I first started looking into Presidential Patents on My Land,The information was nearly 0 on the Coordinates or the actual field notes of the Public Land Survey System in our area.I have the Old books (1909 PLSS),Public Land Survey System,and the paperwork to the Louisiana Purchase from Washington D.C.1865.The Original Plats from the Homestead Act.This 1909 Plat of the County has the Analysis for the U.S Surveys,Principal Meridians and Guide Meridians for the entire U.S.Basing all this Mathmatical Formulae into the GPSr several (7)years ago I retraced the original trails,routes and land boundries governed thereby.Until that time no one had done the enitire States with the GPSr and was told that I could not do it??? Well since then/the Geoid,which I can trace to its start,just notice the dates,The Space Topography Mission by the Space Suttle Endevor and the recent adjustments to the Grid.I have found the proof on the ground with several Triangulation Stations and their Azimuthal directions,deflections of the vertical.I have talked to scientists whom have asked how and where I got all this info. The Old Books....A PICTURE is worth 100000000 words.Especially a 93 year old map of the entire U.S. and World.This Coordinate System is the Same one that Thomas Jefferson started with the U.S Coast and Geodetic Survey.For our (National) Defense from Ocean to Ocean.Back to the Louisiana Purchase again.This info has been fairly confidential for some time,Geospatial Data. I guess we just have to be smart enough to (figure)it out..

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[Kerry.]

well I've got to say I'm not all that sure of what your trying to say, and what's even worse I'm not all that sure that you know what your trying to say .

 

So cut all the gobbly gook and words which used in the context make no sense what so ever and try and explain all this meandering waffle in something that does.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+infosponge]

I'm not sure but I think he was trying to say that the government has somehow taken over the geospatial infrastructure and is altering the locations of things for nefarious purposes yet to be determined. Black helicopters, contrails, etc...

Yes, the lat/lon assigned to locations have changed...it was part of the process of moving from original local reference frames to NAD27 and then NAD83/WGS84 and I think there's even a new one coming down the pike. They're probably doing it so that we don't figure out that Kennedy was assasinated by Osama Bin Laden's grandfather's second cousin.

[Cache Canucks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:

"...When I first started looking into Presidential Patents on My Land..." "...I guess we just have to be smart enough to (figure)it out..." <...and every word in between>

I think we need to add a new 'Instant Graemlin' animation to the current assortment of happy faces, rolling eyes and frowns. The new graemlin, which would be perfect for responding to posts such as that quoted above, would be of ScoobyDoo's head rapidly shaking from left to right with his tongue hanging out and eyes blinking ...as would happen whenever he'd do a double take on something that made absolutely no sense to him (usually accompanied by the ScoobyDoo expletive of 'Hhrruugh??!?').

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

1. Presidential Patents.Does anyone know what these are? 2.(PLSS)Public Land Survey System and Analysis? 3.Gospatial Data? I guess that hypothetical questions get you no where.These three will be a good start.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[Kerry.]

you do have a point don't you? with all these half finished comments.

 

It's really starting to sound like your making a lot of noise about very little.

 

So spit it out and say what your trying to say instead of all this beating around the bush.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Do you think that they will allow the public precise coordinates?

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[Jeremy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:

Do you think that they will allow the public precise coordinates?

---

 

They will, after they decide who is the head of their faction after the death of Colonel Sanders.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[Jeremy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:

Do you think that they will allow the public precise coordinates?

---

 

They will, after they decide who is the head of their faction after the death of Colonel Sanders.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[Kerry.]

#1, Precise coordinates to what your not being very forth coming in all of this.

 

Starting to sound like you know less and less about more and more with everyday.

 

You know precise coordinates is something some of use deal with/in everyday but until you starting unlocking these deep dim dark secret fascination with very vague and unclear one liners, then that's about all we're going to get out of this.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+worldtraveler]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:

Do you think that they will allow the public precise coordinates?

---

Anybody with a GPS receiver already has access to precise coordinates, and the whole geocaching sport/game is proof of it. If someone I don't even know half way around the world can place a 35mm film can in a crevise, post 15 digits on the internet, and I can use those 15 digits to find the can, I'd say the public has access to some pretty precise coordinates.

 

If “they” choose to change the reference again, so what? There are already multiple references in use, and most GPS receivers are capable of using all of them. Mine has over 100 datums stored in it and can display location in a variety of formats.

 

Please explain in plain English what kind of precision you think you are being (or will be) denied.

 

Worldtraveler

[Cache Canucks]

We may very well have one of these in our midst.

[Kerry.]

since this discussion started Oz has moved about 2.5mm north east (give or take poofteenth) and if things keep going the way they have been around here (nowhere ) then someone is going to have to convince the tectonic plate manager to suspend all movement until this matter is sorted out. Gee maybe mentioning this around here might not be the best thing to do this could be grounds for a real conspiracy

 

Geez by the time there's any answers from #1 and things keep moving like they have (for the past zillion years) the mailman might no even find the mailbox .

 

I wonder if it was similar back in the 1700's when Harrison changed the whole perpective of latitude.

 

But I suppose thinking the world was flat came and went as well.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+worldtraveler]

I think he may have a “Beautiful Mind”

 

Worldtraveler

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Well I hope that I am not annoying.Precise measurements ok.Lets talk about Presidential Patents, the Federal Title to lands.This is 1 of the aspects of the Geospatial Data,The Measured distances from True Meridians and Standard Paralells ,starting originaly from Washington D.C.,Then changed to the Greenwich Meridian.It seems that from the time that I aquired My Patents from the BLM,until the present there has been very little Information available to all the facts,data sets,ect,I have the Original 1909 Plat Book for our County,which contains the Analysis of the System, United States Land Surveys, Meridians and Base Lines,OUR Townships,Sections,and Ranges,chained lengths in all Townships,and Entered according to Act of Congress,in the Year of 1905,Geo. A. Ogle & Co.,in the office of the Library of Congress at Washington D.C..After Talking with the United States Land Surveyor ,Reston Va.I found out that these are the grids that are used in the GPS, U.S.(other grids as mentioned),even your own.Back to the Patents,these were started when Thomas Jefferson obtained the Louisiana Territory,more on that,Founded the United States Coast and Geodetic Survey,at Washington D.C.and surrounding.I understand that nothing is perfect,Precise,but If you do the math,from the book,Field Manual,and count off chains to the Townships,Then the 1,2,3,4ect,guide meridians east and west at 24 miles,The 6 mile as nearly as can be due to the convergence of the meridians at the poles, Townships,then Ranges, these are mathmatical as well as establised points ,"not everyone was est. on the ground".Now if these have already been done,the most, and the math and the plats and the GPS correspond,within the guidelines,manual,do you think that this is correct,even though it may not correspond to the new changes,or practices being implemented today?Maybe upon further investigation into the poll it may have been wiser to not place a hypothetical question to this format. Or that is why I was trying to be a little vague so that I would not have to try and explain my brain....Yes I have been told that I am a little abstract but really it is the Mercury poisioning that tends to make my mind a little abstract(not clearly defined) or maybe as some of you think a little crazy ...like a fox.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Well I hope that I am not annoying.Precise measurements ok.Lets talk about Presidential Patents, the Federal Title to lands.This is 1 of the aspects of the Geospatial Data,The Measured distances from True Meridians and Standard Paralells ,starting originaly from Washington D.C.,Then changed to the Greenwich Meridian.It seems that from the time that I aquired My Patents from the BLM,until the present there has been very little Information available to all the facts,data sets,ect,I have the Original 1909 Plat Book for our County,which contains the Analysis of the System, United States Land Surveys, Meridians and Base Lines,OUR Townships,Sections,and Ranges,chained lengths in all Townships,and Entered according to Act of Congress,in the Year of 1905,Geo. A. Ogle & Co.,in the office of the Library of Congress at Washington D.C..After Talking with the United States Land Surveyor ,Reston Va.I found out that these are the grids that are used in the GPS, U.S.(other grids as mentioned),even your own.Back to the Patents,these were started when Thomas Jefferson obtained the Louisiana Territory,more on that,Founded the United States Coast and Geodetic Survey,at Washington D.C.and surrounding.I understand that nothing is perfect,Precise,but If you do the math,from the book,Field Manual,and count off chains to the Townships,Then the 1,2,3,4ect,guide meridians east and west at 24 miles,The 6 mile as nearly as can be due to the convergence of the meridians at the poles, Townships,then Ranges, these are mathmatical as well as establised points ,"not everyone was est. on the ground".Now if these have already been done,the most, and the math and the plats and the GPS correspond,within the guidelines,manual,do you think that this is correct,even though it may not correspond to the new changes,or practices being implemented today?Maybe upon further investigation into the poll it may have been wiser to not place a hypothetical question to this format. Or that is why I was trying to be a little vague so that I would not have to try and explain my brain....Yes I have been told that I am a little abstract but really it is the Mercury poisioning that tends to make my mind a little abstract(not clearly defined) or maybe as some of you think a little crazy ...like a fox.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[Cache Canucks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:

"...do you think that this is correct,even though it may not correspond to the new changes,or practices being implemented today?..."

---

We think whatever you think. You are right. Good work. Well done. Thanks for this. Yup, I think we can pretty much put this one to bed. You pretty well covered it. Not much left to discuss. Looks like the ol' end o'the thread-a-roonie. Oh gosh... look at the time! Gotta run...

[+worldtraveler]

Maybe just an idiot savant sans savant?

 

Worldtraveler

[Kerry.]

Ever see a surveyor using a "chain" (a real chain) these days? Why not, well that one might really shock and surprise you. As for crazy, who knows? but one thing for sure this is the 21 century and the rest you appear a little (quite a lot actually) confused with.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Precise coordinates are available using many means. One of those happens to be a map (USGS, BLM, etc.) and compass. The GPS just happens to do the math for you.

Being off by 20 feet doesn't matter if you are trying to fire a missle at a target using Lat/Long coords. Besides, terrorists prefer car bombs anyway.

I see no reason why the 'civilian' GPS signal won't someday be upgraded to be more accurate. With the European version of our GPS (Galileo) coming online soon, it may spur our government to compete and hence, upgrade our signal.

A dual (GPS and Galileo) receiver would be capable of averaging the two to give more accurate coordinates anyway.

[Kerry.]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

.... I see no reason why the 'civilian' GPS signal won't someday be upgraded to be more accurate. With the European version of our GPS (Galileo) coming online soon, it may spur our government to compete and hence, upgrade our signal.

---

 

No real need to "compete" but "modernisation", well that's already underway, right now.

 

quote:

---

A dual (GPS and Galileo) receiver would be capable of averaging the two to give more accurate coordinates anyway.

---

 

Averaging and dual GPS/Galileo, even less reasons to have to worry about averaging . But there's sort of been this option with GLONASS and at least GLONASS is partially still up there where as Galileo still has to get of the ground.

 

Many manufacturers also made GPS/Glonass receievers but not many were confident in releasing them. As it turned out that became a justifiable lack of confidence.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

We have the precise + - data processor the GPS and all the other new technologies.Since I got this going might as well try and explain my logic.According to the BLM Manual 1973 to 2002.The Initial Point is where the surveys began for that Principal Meridian,U.S. approx. 80 to 120 degrees West of Greenwhich,in my case the 5th Principal Meridian 91 degrees + -,1909 Plats and Field notes from the BLM, BLM Manual 1973 starting at a true meridian base lines and correction lines east and west at 24 miles.Next the 6 mile Townships as nearly as can be. This is where the maps and the math come in,if you follow this guideline the first 6 miles is range 1 west and east,range 2,3,4,5......and so on,by Law.Well I have been doing the math for the last 7 years and as you can see by my profile that this is a special intrest.Now lets say that this was surveyed as required,then all the points should work out mathmatically correct,more or less?These should not be off say 1 mile + -,should they?Lets measure it with the theodolite or like insrument,electronic measuring devise,either way the coordinates can be calculated several diffrent ways,precisely.As far as astronomic observations I have been doing this since I was a youngster and my uncle a scientist showed me the echo 1 and echo 2 satellites and how to time and find them so that we could teletype a message to it and have it repeated back,for ground control of what now is the Space Shuttle program and the Space Station.You are right in one aspect I might be a little slow and confused on some matters but there are some issues involved that at the moment I can not go into great detail to try and discuss in an open forum such as this.The contexts of what I am trying to portray is vast and often difficult to relate to a forum in just one or two discussions.There are some matters that Congress are still working on. I was recently advised that the context of the information that i have aquired is the type that most people get a large salary for and that I should seek to be a consultant in these matters.OH by the way if you read this far you have still not answered to the ? of the Presidential Patents.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[Kerry.]

you as an individual could no more teletype a message to Echo-1 or 2 as jump over the moon.

 

Both Echo 1 & 2 were simple passive satellites which simply functioned to reflect radio waves similar to how light is reflected by a mirror.

 

As for timing and finding them the dadgum things were visible to the naked eye.

 

Be interested in knowing the last time you saw these as both re-entered and distintegrated in the 1960's

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[Kerry.]

you as an individual could no more teletype a message to Echo-1 or 2 as jump over the moon.

 

Both Echo 1 & 2 were simple passive satellites which simply functioned to reflect radio waves similar to how light is reflected by a mirror.

 

As for timing and finding them the dadgum things were visible to the naked eye.

 

Be interested in knowing the last time you saw these as both re-entered and distintegrated in the 1960's

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Yes we did teletype to the satallites,encrypted messages,it may have been (Gov.) work at White Sands Missle Range that my uncle still works on and by the way I have not seen them lately like you said the are gone.But you can get the ephemeris on any satallite you want and find it!And I was around in the 60's,a youth but still remember the lessons well.He also showed me some things that are still unknown to the public at large. You still have not adressed the matter of Initial Point, Patents or Range Lines,This discussion is leading far from the initial intent. Geospatial Data, this being the above mentioned,and the measurements related to it.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

 

[This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on November 28, 2002 at 08:33 PM.]

[Kerry.]

This discussion hasn't even come close to being on track and until you actually say what you mean and mean what you say so others can understand the vagueness of what your trying to say then like I said time will stand still.

 

And that's about all Echo-1 and Echo-2 could do was reflect radio waves as they were nothing more than a mylar ballon coated with aluminium. Echo-2 the bigger of the 2 at 41 metres was even less successful than Echo-1, which didn't do much either.

 

But what those had/have to do with land surveys and initial points has me a little puzzled

 

Initial points, geez nothing new in them, all local datums had an intial point but times have changed (I'll say that again times have changed) and things have changed.

 

You know even Australia has/had one of these thingies.

 

http://www.auslig.gov.au/geodesy/datums/agd.htm

 

The Johnston Geodetic Station is the initial point/origin for all old (note that is "OLD") geodetic work in Australia but it's now basically a historical monument. Significant based on it's history and importance more so in days gone by.

 

Note the following comment

 

"The adoption of this origin and best fitting local ellipsoid means that the centre of the ANS does not coincide with the centre of mass of the earth but lies about 200 metres from it"

 

You see back then based on the best information available this was how things were done and similar things were done all over the world even in the U.S, which has it's local NAD27 origin out in the middle of some corn field. Where it is doesn't matter as much as the fact that there was one and that's the best that could BE DONE AT THE TIME especially considering the varying amount of old (and newer) survey data that was combined to produce something like NAD27.

 

Now if you've got something that really makes sense instead of trying to make all this black magic hooah out of nothing then please feel free.

 

BUT at least spell out what your trying to say.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[Cache Canucks]

[Big Red One]

quote:

---

I was recently advised that the context of the information that i have aquired is the type that most people get a large salary for and that I should seek to be a consultant in these matters.

---

 

LOL, but Anderson isn't hiring these days.

 

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step . . . and then I get in my truck and drive the rest of the way.

[Big Red One]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kerry:

 

Now if you've got something that really makes sense instead of trying to make all this black magic hooah out of nothing then please feel free.

 

BUT at least spell out what your trying to say.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

---

 

Yes, and it may help you to spell out what you want to say by trying paragraphs (a wonderful device for ordering your thoughts), even basic sentence structure (subject-verb-object works pretty well for starters) would help.

 

 

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step . . . and then I get in my truck and drive the rest of the way.

[Big Red One]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kerry:

 

Now if you've got something that really makes sense instead of trying to make all this black magic hooah out of nothing then please feel free.

 

BUT at least spell out what your trying to say.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

---

 

Yes, and it may help you to spell out what you want to say by trying paragraphs (a wonderful device for ordering your thoughts), even basic sentence structure (subject-verb-object works pretty well for starters) would help.

 

 

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step . . . and then I get in my truck and drive the rest of the way.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I have the Presidential Patents to my land.This may have been surveyed the old fashioned way as you would say.There are Federal Entries to this as well as to the location.Now with the new advent of technologies you are saying that these monuments,(coordinates) can be moved to fit the modern requirements?That is not the way the Law states it,as well as the BLM Manual for re surveys of the Public Lands, that once these were established they could not be moved!From what I understand you are telling me that because the system has become outdated that it is obsolete?And if obsolete why are surveyors still looking for the old benchmarks and why are all the maps based on them? One more question I see by your profile that you have 0 caches 0 benchmarks and 0 finds,are you here to be a consultant or what is you area of expertise?

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[Kerry.]

Land survey requirements are basically different to pure positional requirments with respect to GPS as such as there's a whole heap of "other" things to take into account apart from the pure position in the real world.

 

You are getting these 2 very confused.

 

Points on the ground are physical points and they're there to denote real property boundaries relative to the cadastral system adopted by that country.

 

I'm not saying the real property system is outdated but certainly some of the geodetic datums have been superceded and in time will certainly become outdated.

 

With changes in datum, ellipsoids etc the coordinates of the "same" point on the ground can be (are) different. Similar with identical points in different datum's they are different physical points on the actual ground.

 

Surveyors now they cover a whole range of expertise and Maps, well maps in 2 different datums are 2 different maps and in countries where datum changes are now taking place that fact can be certainly confusing if one isn't aware of the effects of datum change.

 

As for Benchmarks GPS has no "direct" or "absolute" relationship to Orthometric heights as most countries still base heights relative to sea level. Still much to understand about the geoid and graviational effects before direct derived orthometric heights form GPS is possible especially within the higher class and order levels.

 

I'm not here to be a consultant, more of an interest and I didn't know I had to hide/find things to discuss any of this (being doing that for more years than I want to remember), especially some of the myth and magic stuff.

 

Lets just say I specialize in all things Geospatial.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Thank you for all of your feedback.I really should start at the beginning.I am only trying to preserve a small portion of the Original Homestead Act of 1864.The Abstracts to the title of The Land go back to the Louisiana Purchase.The Patents were done as a part of the Reclamation Act of 1902,President Roosevelt,President Taft 1909.The Original Plat Map Book is the Re-Surveys of the unsurveyed Public lands as well as those already surveyed.I have spent the last 7 years or so working in this area,out of the book with the GPS.I have recovered almost 100 benhmarks and Triangulation Stations in the surrounding area(County)as well as numerous Forrest service survey Township locators,Army Corps of Engineers and the BLM as well as USC&GS.Alot of the original corners,1/4,1/16.I have also been working on the Geoid,of my creation,3 miles wide and 3 miles long,the center being over the 1927 National Vertical Datum Final Adjustment 1974 Triangulation Station BLM,Department of the Interior.This started over what I call the Deflection angle of the verticle,I wanted to know the precise angle of the deflection at our long. and latt.As to the statement when I first started,This was when selective availability was still turned on and I was trying to get this local information as correct as possible.There were lots of Americans asking for the SA to be turned off or to allow the public access to this data,this is were Ex.,order 12906 came in, it made the order to create a way(Geospatial data Infrastructure) for the public to have better access to our own equiptment and data sets.

 

When all else fails Geotry again.

[ride_bent]

Me head hurts after reading all this nonsense...

 

The best things in life are not things...

 

Now Open... http://www.geoindiana.com <-Click It! You know you want to!

[Kerry.]

For a start there is no such thing as the “1927 National Vertical Datum Final Adjustment 1974”. NAD27 is a horizontal reference datum and NVGD29 (National Vertical Geodetic Datum 1929) was usually used as the vertical reference on NAD27 mapping. NAVD 88 replaced NVGD 27 as a vertical datum and is a better representation of the vertical but neither of these is exactly correlated with the Geoid and height issues where deflection of the vertical is incorporated.

 

1974 was the year the NAD83 horizontal adjustment was commenced (officially July 1, 1974) and how 1974 relates to a 1926 vertical datum that never existed is beyond me.

 

As for “mixing” Selective Availability up with all of this (apart from basically everything being totally mixed up anyway), what’s SA got to do with anything, especially with the deflection of the vertical? Terminating SA allowed public access to data and whatever? what rot.

 

Cheers, Kerry.

 

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

[Cache Canucks]

Are 'worldtraveler' and I the only ones in this forum who saw 'A Beautiful Mind'...? This is the part where they find the guy's office wallpapered in psychotic gibberish and have to convince him that he doesn't have an implant embedded in his forearm...

 

[+CYBret]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

Are 'worldtraveler' and I the only ones in this forum who saw 'A Beautiful Mind'...? This is the part where they find the guy's office wallpapered in psychotic gibberish and have to convince him that he doesn't have an implant embedded in his forearm...

---

 

Bought it for my wife for her birthday, watched it last night. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to watch that one a couple more times before I have it down.

 

By the way, I just went back and looked at the picture from the movie that you posted earlier. . . LOL . . I hope everyone else has paid close attention to the picture.

 

Bret

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44

[+Stunod]

Good eye, CYBret...I totally missed that before!

 

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."