YUCK -- Disgusting, Ghastly and Frightening

[+canadazuuk]

I am tending to agree with the sentiment expressed regarding taking back our parks.

 

It is beyond the scope of this site (and geocaching/geocachers in general) to do this kind of clean up, though I suspect that we could find 5-10 folks willing to work outside this forum to do something about the PROBLEM.

 

I like the idea of having a BFL event, seriously. Maybe we could have this become a reality?

 

Just need a few more BFLs.

 

Is THE TEAM's cache dispenser soon to be working?

 

canadazuuk

[+flask]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jomarac5:

]Afraid? I wasn't afraid. Far from it.

*****

---

 

then why is the word frightening in the title of the topic?

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[Jomarac5]

quote:

---

flask wrote:

then why is the word frightening in the title of the topic?

---

If you had read my previous post in it's entirety you would see that I said "At no time did I fear for my safety. And at no time did I feel that was in danger or that my morals were in question or threatened. Although I did find the actions frightening from a societal viewpoint."

 

The key phrase here being "from a societal viewpoint".

 

*****

[+Divine]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jomarac5:

1. Have you run into anything like this, or an area where it is obviously a sicko hangout?

---

I have once run into something like that, but I didn't recognize any 'sickos' there.

 

quote:

---

2. Do you think the local authorities should be notified?

---

If it's illegal there, probably yes. Personally, I don't care, and I don't consider that disgusting, ghastly nor frightening. I also don't think those people are sickos.

 

quote:

---

3. Should we mark these spots so that others in the future do not put caches there?

---

It's probably best that people caching especially with kids don't get to see that kind of action. Your idea might be good.

 

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

[Jomarac5]

quote:

---

Divine wrote:

If it's illegal there, probably yes. Personally, I don't care, and I don't consider that disgusting, ghastly nor frightening. I also don't think those people are sickos.

---

Yes, it is illegal here to perform sexual acts in a public place. Unfortunately, the police can do nothing about it unless they catch these people engaged in the act.

 

I think you are definitely wrong about these people not being sicko's. What kind of rational thinking person would even consider milling around a public area, seeking an anonymous sexual encounter, only 100 meters from an area where innocent children are? And that's what makes it sick -- having no regard for the well-being of innocent people.

 

Sorry, but there's just nothing correct about this sort of behaviour and there is nothing that you can say to convince me otherwise. It's sick.

 

*****

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Divine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jomarac5:

1. Have you run into anything like this, or an area where it is obviously a sicko hangout?

---

I have once run into something like that, but I didn't recognize any 'sickos' there.

-

---

 

I'd wager that the guys themselves recognize that they are sickos. That's why if you bring a camera and start taking their pictures they usually turn tail and run. If their behavior is so un-sicko (to coin a new term) why are they so ashamed? I'm not talking about pictures of them buggering in the bushes, but pictures of them in their cars waiting for the next random partner.

 

"Hello, my name is Bruce. I have sex with random strangers in parks and then throw my used condoms (if I use one) in the tall grass for anyone to find. I'm to ashamed of my actions to actually get a hotel room or bring thse people to my home but I'm not a sicko. Next."

 

Where does the debauchery actaully cross the line to sicko for you? These guys are borderline bugchasers if not actuall bugchasers to be so thoughtless. These are public areas.

 

Now another cache has to be pulled.

 

Get a room.

 

Nuf said.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

[+TEAM 360]

Jomarac5, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and you don't need to backpedal to anyone who disagrees with you and say "from a societal" viewpoint. Personally, I think if I came across that action taking place it would disgust me, too. Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint and opinion. I will come out and say it straight: there are certain groups of people I just don't like. THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT I SAID, SO WHAT IF ANYONE DOESN'T LIKE HOW I THINK! No one can MAKE me like someone if I don't want to. I have the RIGHT to dislike anything I want to. Yes, I find that type of behavior sickening and disgusting. To each his own opinion, and that's MINE. And I WON'T be apologizing to anyone who feels offended by this post. Deal with it.

[+seneca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TEAM 360:

I will come out and say it straight: there are certain groups of people I just don't like. THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT I SAID, SO WHAT IF ANYONE DOESN'T LIKE HOW I THINK!

---

 

Team 360, your honesty and candor are refreshing. If everybody would be as straight, and have the guts to bluntly admit where they are coming from, it would make it much easier to draw rational conclusions from what they are saying. It would make these forums more informative.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

 

[This message was edited by seneca on June 03, 2003 at 11:29 PM.]

[Jomarac5]

Team 360, thank you for supporting me, but I didn't make that statement about 'a societal viewpoint' in an effort to packpedal -- it was in response to a previous post by Seneca that incorrectly accused me of being afraid when I encountered the two sickos. As I mentioned before, we have become a society that is far too tolerant of behaviour that weakens the fabric of civilized society. It's time that as a society we let these degenerates (including the druggies, violent gangs, prosutitutes and other undesirables that eroyd mentioned) know that we're not going to tolerate this behaviour anymore. And yes, we do need to express our opinions without fear of being labeled one way or another. My honest remarks and straightforward candor have often had others attaching labels to me -- and really, much like yourself, I don't care what they think -- these are my opinions and I am entitled to them.

[+seneca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jomarac5:

My honest remarks and straightforward candor have often had others attaching labels to me --and really, much like yourself, I don't care what they think -- these are my opinions and I am entitled to them.

---

 

Jomarac5 if you really had been honest and never declared "This has nothing to do with Gay Bashing", I doubt I would have even entered this conversation. It has EVERYTHING to do with Gay Bashing. And by the way, you do care what people think (just reread your reactions to my earlier posts). And you are right - you are entitled to your opinions - keep 'em.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

[Jomarac5]

Seneca, grow up. What is your problem? It does not have anything to do with gay bashing. It has to do with perversion in a public place. Nowhere in my posts do I say that I have a problem or prejudice about gays. It happens that I do have a problem with two guys in the bushes engaging in a sexual act in a public place who are obviously gay. But they are perverts first.

 

And who are you to tell me how I feel or care about anything? You know nothing about me and are a fool for thinking that you do. You should learn to keep your unsubstantiated claims to yourself. One thing is for sure, I certainly am caring a lot less about what you have to say.

 

*****

[+seneca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jomarac5:

You know nothing about me and are a fool for thinking that you do. *****

---

 

The Gettysburg Address would fit in about 15 lines of text in this thread - and from that I know almost everything there is to know about Abraham Lincoln - and I never even met him.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

[Khlash]

I can't beleive that people here are going to honestly try to say theres no difference between a straight couple getting it on in the bushes and two men having an*l sex in the bushes. You've got to be joking. The latter is completely worse than the former and would probably mentally damage some young kid who stumpled into view. Im sorry but this country is getting just a bit too politically correct.

[Jomarac5]

quote:

---

Khlash wrote:

I can't beleive that people here are going to honestly try to say theres no difference between a straight couple getting it on in the bushes and two men having an*l sex in the bushes. You've got to be joking. The latter is completely worse than the former and would probably mentally damage some young kid who stumpled into view. Im sorry but this country is getting just a bit too politically correct.

---

I agree with all of what you say. Even if some cowardly people would label me for it.

 

*****

 

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on June 03, 2003 at 07:57 PM.]

[+seneca]

Way to bash, Khlash!!

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

 

[This message was edited by seneca on June 03, 2003 at 10:53 PM.]

[Khlash]

If I'm the only one that sees a difference, Then I guess Im a basher. Somehow I have a feeling Seneca would feel differently if it was his youg son/daughter discovering this.

[+Bloencustoms]

Here's a sensitive subject. A couple of months ago, I was out finding a brand new cache with a friend. He returned to the car to get a travel bug we wanted to launch there. When he got back to the cache area, he told me that a guy had slowed down in his car after circling the area a few times, then made a vulgar gesture inquiring if my friend would want to share in a sex act.

Let me just say that the look on my friend's face as he described the encounter was nothing less than pure disgust. I don't really care what people do with themselves, I stay out of gay bars, because I don't want to encounter openly gay displays. But public parks are not somewhere I expect to encounter that kind of activity. It is shocking to see anything out of context, and a public park fits the bill.

The whole premise behind that kind of activity is "consenting adults". Well, it isn't a normal activity because if it was the norm, the entire human race would go extinct in one generation. There are plenty of different sexual "preferences". Almost all are illegal, and for good reasons. The same reasons that you wouldn't want a family to encounter deviant activity in a public park. It's one thing having to explain sex to kids, all parents will at some point. But no one should have to explain that sort of stuff. There ought to be a way to prevent it from happening in parks so it will never have to be explained.

The park where the encounter occurred is large, it is a less frequented area thereof. Perfect place for a cache, untill you look around with newly jaded eyes and see all the single men in their cars with the engines running. There are plenty of private places, why not go there?

 

"The fertilizer has hit the ventilator"

[+Alan2]

I was caching in NYC's Central Park in Manahattan which is not exactly a remote park with few people. However, there were semi-hidden areas that we passed through caching at a later time in the day where I saw guys cruising on the make that made me feel very uncomfortable especially because my 24 year old daughter was there with me. It is uncomfortable enough when you get eyed not knowing if the guy is sizing you up for sex or salivating over your kid. Worse still however, and you don't know at the time for sure when you get that "look", is that he could be sizing you up to rob you?

 

I'm sure my kid didn't pick up on it, but it ruined caching that day for me. We left quickly.

 

Alan

[cachebaby]

Perhaps it was Ace and Gary, The Ambiguously Gay Duo, and they were out fighting crime.

lol

[+jollybgood]

I think several issues are being blurred here.

 

For me it's not about lifestyles and such. What others do behind closed doors is of little concern to me. It doesn't even have to be behind closed doors for that matter. As long as it's not in my face (no pun intended). To each his or her own.

 

But if I'm caching i don't want to be confronted with illegal activity or those who engage in it. Be it drugs. Public indeceny or whatever.

 

I don't care what a person's sexual preference is. Public parks are not supposd to be gathering points for people to have anonymous sex.

 

No one should have to apologize for saying they feel uncomfortable or even outraged that they have to be confronted with such activity while trying to utilize the park as it was intended -- enjoying the outdoors, sports etc.

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

[+Polgara]

This thread gives new meaning to Cache in Trash Out! <giggle> Now that would be one nasty event cache...imagine the pics!

 

Actually, this is a brand new type of cache, called a "A Banging Good TIme". To find this cache, you need to come across some people expressing their love for the sport of geocaching on an intimate level, then whip out your slingshot, (if its dark you'll need a BFL, and make sure to increase the difficulty rating), then flick a condom at them. If it smacks 'em, you log it found, if ya miss, oops, then its a DNF. Then laugh your a$$ off as they scurry to get their clothes on!

 

"The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator."

- Louis Pasteur

[+hydee]

Safety while geocaching is an issue.

 

If you come across an area you feel is unsafe, please email the cache owner and/or contact@Groundspeak.com and we will look into the issue.

 

If it is something the local police department needs to address then please contact them.

 

As for the rest of the things being discussed here, they are off topic. What does any of it have to do with Geocaching? Please bring this thread back on topic.

 

hydee

[+seneca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jolly B Good:

For me it's not about lifestyles and such. What others do behind closed doors is of little concern to me. It doesn't even have to be behind closed doors for that matter. As long as it's not in my face (no pun intended). To each his or her own.

 

But if I'm caching i don't want to be confronted with illegal activity or those who engage in it. Be it drugs. Public indeceny or whatever.

---

 

Well said. Makes perfect sense to me. And for some reason, Jolly B. Good, I really believe that you are being sincere - and I don’t even know you.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

[+Renegade Knight]

Yes this topic has digressed.

 

Gay Bashing. Hmmm...

Lot's of people have a fetish. Most people don't identify themselves with it. Most people take the work rout. 'Hi I'm John and I'm a writer' but then there is the Gay thing. "Hi I'm John and I'm Gay" Ok thanks for sharing that with us John, by the way didn't I see you at the park the other day? I was looking for a geocache. are you a cacher John?, you sure dressed light for caching I'd say. Get any ticks?

 

The second fetish here is the potential to get caught in public.

 

The third fetish here is the thrill of new meat.

 

But it should be easy to suck the fun out of it with a few well chosen phrases or deceptions.

 

"Say gentlemen while you are certainly entertaining in that pose I can't help butt (pun intended) wonder about something. I've picked off several ticks while walking over here, do you find them a problem?

 

"Say did you know that the deer around here are infested with Chronic Wasting Disease? It's fatal to humans the same way that Mad Cow is and you can get it when you frollic in their droppings"

 

"Hmmm Wonder if the Mice here have the Hanta Virus..."

 

"Johny If that's you messin with my woman in them thar bushes I'm a gonna blow your head off!"

 

"Dispatch, please send backup"

 

Since anybody can have a yellow light. Put on on your car, drive up and turn it on. By the time they figure out that you are not giving out the Blue Light Special their pants will already be up and the special mood will be gone.

 

"That's ok you can toss the dirty needle in the bushes with the other ones"

 

"Ms. Johnson when your kindergarten class gets here I think there are lots of good leaves to pick for the project over there where the bushes are rustling in the wind."

 

"Hello is this 911? There is a fight taking place I can hear the struggle in the bushes"

 

"I can't wait to try out my new camera on the game around here, cool there is some just over there making noise!"

 

And hydee what does it have to do with geocaching? Simple, we geocachers have a knack for going places that normal folks just don't seem to go much. Homeless camps, Gay Swing Zones, beautiful scenery, hikes, slag zones, industrial sectors, body dump sites, dams, military base gates, across fences and everthing else. What we think about these places and what we encounter are valid topics on this site. That it was gay's in the bushes happens to be somewhat controversial but the 'aurora' of controversy should not make the topic prohibited.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

[Jomarac5]

quote:

---

Hydee wrote:

As for the rest of the things being discussed here, they are off topic. What does any of it have to do with Geocaching? Please bring this thread back on topic.

---

I agree Hydee. Some people are pretty bent on turning this discussion into something that it is not. Thank you.

 

*****

[LUNAPIE]

Jomarac5:

 

I guess the topic was the original three questions. I’ll tackle them.

 

Question 1—YES I’ve seen the guys sitting in the cars. I ignored it but at the time I wasn’t getting of the trail so wasn’t a witness to any illegal activity.

 

Your original post said the rest area was “frequented” by what you alluded to be non-heterosexual persons engaging in “encounters”. I’m curious how from your SINGLE experience the location merited being described as a “frequent” “pick-up spot” by non-heterosexual persons. Despite all the angles presented here, prejudiced, bigoted or otherwise, I find this original post either to be:

1) Leaping to a conclusion--and therefore my opinion/answer to your question #3 being NO; or

2) A conclusion based on some previous information that didn’t deter you from going there, but that evidenced by a single event confirmed the suspicion for you. This begs the question of why you went and chanced witnessing an “encounter” that threatened your “well-being” (a later post).

 

A majority of the subsequent responders agreed that sex acts in public are illegal in the majority places, inappropriate for children’s viewing, and that the experience of viewing them is unwanted by the majority of those responders. My response to your question #2 is YES if sex acts in public are illegal in the area (and you said they are) it is appropriate to report the illegal activity to the police. Sounds as if a Groundspeak representative has concurred and apparently you have done so.

 

But…..

 

I don’t know how busy the police are in the “vicinity of Vancouver, BC, Canada”, but I imagine that these days it is difficult for all but the sleepiest towns to dedicate sex police to sting operations that extend to 100 meters into the brush (as a later post eluded that the offending behavior was witnessed) for non-violent crimes yet to be committed anymore than they can post a patrol car in every neighborhood to make sure no one’s house gets broken into while they are away. I wouldn’t accuse the police of having a “lackadaisical attitude” toward breaking and entry or burglary because if it.

 

If you are passionate about eradicating the offending behavior from your particular rest stop (or any potential geocaching location) and have the time you think the police do to devote to the endeavor, I think georgeandmary had very good suggestions. The lady at Abbotsford City Police is right: your grassroots action might quickly deter the “frequent” behavior at this “hang-out” (again, your words) if indeed it is one. During the time it took you to consult with three police organizations, the parks board, and post diatribes to this forum every one to five hours for the last two days, I’ll bet you could have manned a table at the rest stop informing visitors of your “social viewpoint” and experience at that location. In doing so, you would also make the offending parties aware that they are not welcome there and the location is being monitored by citizens reporting to the police. Despite the fact that “you are entitled to them”, ranting about your “opinions” about “perverts” in geocaching cyberspace has done little to change your situation.

[Jomarac5]

I think that Renagade Knight comes very close to the very essence of what this topic is about -- as cachers we do tend to visit out of the way places and as such we find many things that others do not.

 

When I brought this topic up, it wasn't to start a debate about gay rights or even about gay behaviour. I was bringing attention to the fact that there are areas that are inappropriate for placing caches. I asked 3 relevant questions and a few people incorrectly took them to be an attempt to bash gay lifestyles.

 

Fortunately for me, I did not have my children with me, and frankly, the experience was nothing more than an example of pathetic human behaviour. But it could have had serious implications if a child had witnessed it.

 

Others who had been to the location a bit earlier in the day did have children with them and stumbled across used condoms and wrappers and a quantity of pornography in a stump. Good for them for taking the initiative to remove the pornography. Fortunately for them, they didn't witness the type of display that I did.

 

I did contact the police about this incident. In fact, I spoke to 3 separate police departments and they were all aware of the problem but none seemed to be very concerned about it. I will be looking into this further and contacting my local member of parliament.

 

What it all comes down to is that a lesson should be learned here -- check out the area as best you can before placing a cache there. Obviously, it is sometimes difficult to determine what kind of activity takes place in every location but used condoms, condom wrappers, syringes and needles, are all good indicators that the area may not be suitable for a family oriented activity such as caching.

 

*****

[+seneca]

Gee, Jomarak5, I think I am finally seeing what you are getting at.

I guess you just confused me with, “Disgusting, Ghastly, & Frightening”, “Adam and Eve”, “but they were of the same gender”, and “ I think I would have rather found a dead body.”

 

I wonder why everything went so far off topic. Hmmmmm...

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

 

[This message was edited by seneca on June 04, 2003 at 06:31 AM.]

[Jomarac5]

LUNAPIE, from my SINGLE experience, I observed that there were numerous condoms and wrappers littering the area. After the incident and when I returned to my car, I noticed several men milling about the parking area. It doesn't take a much to put 2 and 2 together to determine what was going on in the area. Obviously, my subsequent visit and conversations with the police confirmed that my determination of the area was absolutely correct.

 

quote:

---

This begs the question of why you went and chanced witnessing an “encounter” that threatened your “well-being” (a later post).

---

Hmmm... I was already in the area before I could determine what was going on there. I did not say that my 'well-being" was threatened.

 

quote:

---

I don’t know how busy the police are in the “vicinity of Vancouver, BC, Canada”, but I imagine that these days it is difficult for all but the sleepiest towns to dedicate sex police to sting operations that extend to 100 meters into the brush (as a later post eluded that the offending behavior was witnessed) for non-violent crimes yet to be committed anymore than they can post a patrol car in every neighborhood to make sure no one’s house gets broken into while they are away. I wouldn’t accuse the police of having a “lackadaisical attitude” toward breaking and entry or burglary because if it.

---

The impression that I got from the police is that they didn't care. I did acknowledge that it would be a difficult problem for the police to remedy. My point however, was that the police barely acknowledged my complaint -- and instead treated me as though it was an inconvenience to them that I was reporting it -- that seems to me to be a lackadaisical attitude towards this problem.

 

quote:

---

During the time it took you to consult with three police organizations, the parks board, and post diatribes to this forum every one to five hours for the last two days, I’ll bet you could have manned a table at the rest stop informing visitors of your “social viewpoint” and experience at that location.

---

Diatribes is your word, I'd hardly call it that. I did report the incident to the police but if you reread my post, I did not have need to contact the parks board. With regard to the frequency of my following this thread, I am fortunate with my job that I am able to often follow threads and occasionally respond to posts. I do not have the ability to 'man a table' and it is a bit farsighted of you to suggest this without knowing all of the facts.

 

quote:

---

ranting about your “opinions” about “perverts” in geocaching cyberspace has done little to change your situation.

---

Hardly a rant. On numerous occasions during this thread I indicated that this topic was not about gay bashing but certain individuals insisted on calling it that. I was merely trying to correct these misconceptions. And as you can see, there is still one individual who just can't let this go. Now there's a guy who is misguided and off topic.

 

For what it is worth, the situation has changed. The result of this thread is that the people in this area now are aware of this rest stop and can avoid it until the problem is corrected. Another positive result is that from this discussion it is quite possible that cachers in other areas might now recognize potentially unfavorable areas near them.

 

There is much about this thread that you obviously didn't completely digest, but thanks for your thoughts just the same.

 

*****

[+canadazuuk]

I think it is probably best that I did remove the cache in question. Various first hand evidence from geocachers and information from truckers who sometimes sleep in the reat area (as truckers NORMALLY do) points to the area being a KNOWN area for various illegal activites, not the least of which includes engaging in intercourse of one variety or another in a public place.

 

I've read a few posts that *seem* to suggest that engaging in intercourse in a public place is not illegal in their area. I'm not a law expert, so can someone tell me where it is legal in the United States or Canada to engage in intercourse in an open public area? Specifically: behind a tree stump on a trail in a park?

 

Okay so whatever, there are places that geocaches are possibly best not kept, for reasons already discussed.

 

Jomarac5's original questions may have revealed a bias for or against certain activities, but it was not Jomarac5 who got this topic going off topic. His original three questions seem very reasonable, and with exception of one or two adjectives, he was merely asking about a particular illegal activity.

 

Just for comparison, and let's try and weed out the double standards here folks:

'It's not okay to pray in school, but it's okay to hide behind a stump and and have anal intercourse?'

 

I think it's time to place my Romans 1:20 cache, but not on this site.

 

We're self policing. Neither cache should exist.

 

canadazuuk

[GeoVet]

Yup, could be worse things witnessed. Might be a tad embarassing if you are with the kids, but as long as it's consensual adults, this is a free country. There are laws and the social contract that bind us together. Too bad you didn't have Fido along, your 200 lb. slobbery over-friendly St. Bernard. . .

[teefal]

here's a few ideas...

 

1. set up a few wireless webcams that are aimed at license plates & "active" areas

 

2. put the license plates on a "wall of inappropriate public pickle parking" web page

 

3. add a members-only area of the website with access to photos, and take paypal donations

 

4. take the considerable income from #4 and create a "get-a-room" fund for nearby hotel room rental

 

Yes, I'm joking. Yes, the homophobia's pretty disturbing in this topic. Yes, pickle parking's a problem that puts people in unpleasant positions.

[+TMAN264]

LOL, teefal said "pickle Parking".

 

Ok, now that my tribute to Beevis and Butthead is done, I find this topic interesting. Our town has a large gay population. Having several police officers as friend, I also know there is an area that gay men park for the same activity that started this thread. There are at least 2 caches in this area.

 

Knowing this information, I still went a found these caches. A person's sexual preferance is there own, and no concern to me. I knew about this location, and made a choice to cache anyway. I would not have taken my wife or 6 year old niece here though.

 

I do disagree that this activity take place in public however, whether it be 2 men, or a heterosexual couple. There are plenty of indoor locations for intimate activity.

 

I agree with Jomarac5's concerns regarding this issue. There should be prior knowledge of the type of activities that take place around a cache, before making a choice of going there. Many people take their kids caching. I made an adult decision to find these caches, and I would respect anyone's decision to find or not to find these caches, based on a complete knowledge of what goes on there.

 

Make a sanity check.

[+canadazuuk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeoVet:

Yup, could be worse things witnessed. Might be a tad embarassing if you are with the kids, but as long as it's consensual adults, this is a free country.

---

 

So people having intercourse in a public park behind a tree stump on a trail AND ON A REGULAR ONGOING BASIS is okay, and placing a cache there (or near there) shouldn't be an issue?

[+clearpath]

Okay, once we shame these D.O.s (Decency Offenders) out of our parks, where do they go? They can't go home. According to reports that I have read or watched on TV, a lot of these D.O.s have a wife or husband and kids. You can't expect them to stop, because if they could stop, they would have by now. So, where can they go once we take back our parks? A motel/hotel isn't going to work either. If you owned the motel/hotel would you want this activity permeating your establishment?

 

I suggest they could move to the city dump! No one goes there, most people don't even know where it is. You don't run the risk of children seeing anything (who would take their kids to the dump?) Also, it is not going to hurt anything when the D.O.s discard their condoms and whatever. The other place I could think of is ... jail.

 

"heck, that scares me and I'm fearless"

[Jomarac5]

quote:

---

teefal wrote:

Yes, the homophobia's pretty disturbing in this topic

---

Something is pretty disturbing in this topic, but it's not homophobia.

 

Could it be the perverted behaviour of those looking to have anonymous sex in a public location? And the disease infested garbage that they leave there? Hmmm... yup, that's it.

 

*****

[+canadazuuk]

The very nature of geocaching, and the search for a cache, makes it DANGEROUS and POTENTIALLY UNHEALTHY/LIFE THREATENING to look in such an area, where used condoms could be discarded in such high quantities.

 

I would hate to see a cache near a known heroin shooting gallery, and would probably seek to have it archived as well.

 

Again, it is beyond the scope of this site, and geocachers in general to tackle such large issues in single-handed fashion, but there are some factors here that make this discussion MORE THAN warranted.

 

canadazuuk

[+flask]

what alarms me are the number of people who are hostile to a concept that just doesn't concern them. please separate the issues better.

 

it is not appropriate for the unwiling to have to see other people's sexual congress. the gender of the participants should not enter into it.

 

i prefer to think that geocachers welcome all people to the sport, provided they are playing the sport. imagine being a part of a perfectly modest clean-cut law-abiding gay couple (with or without kids) who read these posts and feel threatened or outcast.

 

anonymous sex in a public place would simply not occur to most gay people, who are astoundingly like you and me.

 

unwanted sexual attention makes me feel creepy, regardless of the age or gender of the person doing it. it's all icky. and i think the best way to drive these folks out of thde parks is to insist on using the parks for other recreational purposes.

 

i am given to understand that it's even awkward to the person offering anonymous sexual activity to run into people who are not interested. if the only people who frequent the park are looking for sex, it's safer to assume that everyone there is looking for the same thing.

 

by using the park for other activities on a regular basis, those other users may not disappear, i'd bet real money that they'll be more subtle, careful, and out of view.

 

when it comes right down to it, i do not care if two strangers do whatever if i am certain i don't have to see it.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by teefal:

Yes, the homophobia's pretty disturbing in this topic.

---

 

Homophobia? Do you consider the behavior outlined in this discussion as typical homosexual behavior? Do you think that the behavior displayed (literally) by these men in these parks represents the entire gay community? Maybe you do but I don't.

 

We're talking about specific behavior in PUBLIC areas. We geocache in public areas. There is an overlap. One of these behaviors destoys public parks for family activites. One does not. Which one do you deffend?

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by clearpath:

You can't expect them to stop, because if they could stop, they would have by now.

---

 

What kind of arugument is that? That's like saying you can't quit smoking because if you could you would have by now. Well, people do quit smoking and people do quit deviant behavior. But no one is going to feel the pressure to quit when you have so many people perfectly willing to give up their public parks to these people.

 

I have 3 caches in areas that fit into this category and I put full warnings on the cache pages that people should not bring their kids to hunt the caches. In those logs for the caches people have been propositioned, they've stumbled upon caches of porn, they've found naked guys with tool in hand who couldn't wait for anyone.

 

Where are they going to go? Get a room, as simple as that. Hell, park your car in a back alley industrial area where you're not likely to find families going to have a picnic.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

[FlashStash]

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgeandmary:

quote:

---

Originally posted by teefal:

Yes, the homophobia's pretty disturbing in this topic.

---

 

Homophobia? Do you consider the behavior outlined in this discussion as typical homosexual behavior? Do you think that the behavior displayed (literally) by these men in these parks represents the entire gay community? Maybe you do but I don't.

 

We're talking about specific behavior in PUBLIC areas. We geocache in public areas. There is an overlap. One of these behaviors destoys public parks for family activites. One does not. Which one do you deffend?

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

---

 

The initial topic? Not necessarialy homophobic...but go back and read the post by Khlash, that's homophobic.

 

I'm a gay man, and I don't condone this behavior at all. I know MANY gay men, and know none who participate in any sort of activity like this. You'll find it's mainly closeted men, who still have families, who do this. They feel there's no other way to do this and this is their outlet. This does not justify their behavior, just trying to explain it. There are many instances of straight anonymous sex like this, it's just not happening in public.

 

To get this back on topic, I won't post them here, but there are websites that list this type of activity. If you want to avoid such locations, you can look them up first.

 

Finally, to anyone who is homophobic, and espouses their hatred, or even dislike for homosexuality (Khlash and TEAM 360, whether you consider yourself homophobes or not, this applies to you)...I ask you to consider this. Most people know they are homosexual when they are young. Imagine a child 15-16, whatever age, dealing with such an issue. Where do they turn? To their homophobic parents who they're heard talk with disgust about homosexuals? To the church that tells them how their feeling is a sin? The homophobes create a place where a young person dealing with such issues have nowhere to turn. Some turn to suicide, due to feeling they have no one to go to, and constantly being told that what they are feeling is wrong or a sin. Something to remember before you speak out against homosexuality.

 

FS

 

[This message was edited by FlashStash on June 04, 2003 at 01:44 PM.]

[+clearpath]

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgeandmary:

 

What kind of arugument is that? That's like saying you can't quit smoking because if you could you would have by now. Well, people do quit smoking and people do quit deviant behavior.

 

---

 

Okay, let's see you get every person alive today, to quit smoking.

 

That's my point, you will never be able to rid society of this behavior.

 

"heck, that scares me and I'm fearless"

[Jomarac5]

quote:

---

FlashStash wrote:

I'm a gay man, and I don't condone this behavior at all. I know MANY gay men, and know none who participate in any sort of activity like this. You'll find it's mainly closeted men, who still have families, who do this. They feel there's no other way to do this and this is their outlet. This does not justify their behavior, just trying to explain it. There are many instances of straight anonymous sex like this, it's just not happening in public.

---

I'm glad that you posted here and expressed your views. I too, know a few gay men and have shared very good long-term friendships with a couple of them. I spoke with one of them this morning about this topic and he pretty much echoed your comments and expressed that he also does not know of any gay men who participate in this activity, nor does he condone it. He said that he is very aware of it. He also shared with me, your comment that most of those that do participate in these anonymous activities, from what he has been led to believe, are mostly closeted family types.

 

It is very unfortunate that this discussion has strayed so far, my initial post was intended to bring awareness to a problem that just happened to unfortunately involve gay men -- and quite honestly, it would not have been the same perspective to me if it were a hetrosexual couple -- my apologies if this offends you in any way. I do believe that most gay men do not condone this behaviour. But the fact is, it was two men that I encountered and I believe this fact does make a difference as this is a behaviour that quite frankly, does not happen in the same manner with most hetrosexuals (referring to the act being frequently performed in a known public place).

 

My own personal feelings about homosexuality aside, I think that Georges comments comparing quitting smoking to quitting being gay are not relevant here or any other place. I am not gay, and as such do have a difficult time understanding it, but I do appreciate that others have had to deal with life-long struggles regarding their own identities and decisions. I cannot however, and probably never will, fully understand these struggles. If this makes me appear 'homophobic', then so be it.

 

Having said all this, and I know that this is by now beginning to sound like a broken record as I have reiterated this on nearly every one of my posts to this thread -- this discussion is not about homosexuality or gay bashing. It is about inappropriate behaviour in a public place where myself and others take our children.

 

We all have differing views on some of our life 'experiences' but as Hydee pointed out, this is not the forum to be discussing them.

 

There is a legitimate problem that has been presented here and I find it disheartening that this discussion has gone so far off topic. Perhaps now, this topic can continue on without turning into something that it is not.

 

Thanks for sharing your insights in this discussion FlashStash, it's much appreciated.

 

Since the first two of my questions have basically been answered, I pose the third question once more -- do we as cachers, need to mark or identify these known locations to avoid placing caches there in the future?

 

*****

[+Gaddiel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jomarac5:

Since the first two of my questions have basically been answered, I pose the third question once more -- do we as cachers, need to mark or identify these known locations to avoid placing caches there in the future?

---

 

On the contrary, I'd think that we (as cachers) would do well to make MORE caches in areas like this. With more traffic in these areas, it will become a less appealing spot for "that other group".

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlashStash:

There are many instances of straight anonymous sex like this, it's just not happening in public.

---

 

That's the point. I really don't care if you want to do this stuff but when you're in my public park then I get a say. If you get a room or you're in your house, then I don't get a say.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

[+canadazuuk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgeandmary:

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlashStash:

There are many instances of straight anonymous sex like this, it's just not happening in public.

---

 

That's the point. I really don't care if you want to do this stuff but when you're in my public park then I get a say. If you get a room or you're in your house, then I don't get a say.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

---

 

Precisely.

 

This is the original issue that was raised. I am uncertain why the liberals on the page are trying to lure this into something more, but this seems to be a typical tactic.

[+canadazuuk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by teefal:

Yes, pickle parking's a problem that puts people in unpleasant positions.

---

 

That's a pretty darn good line.

 

And precisely the issue here.

[solohiker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

Gee, Jomarak5, I think I am finally seeing what you are getting at.

I guess you just confused me with, “Disgusting, Ghastly, & Frightening”, “Adam and Eve”, “but they were of the same gender”, and “ I think I would have rather found a dead body.”

 

I wonder why everything went so far off topic. Hmmmmm...

 

_I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me._

http://www.cslaw.ca/geol4.JPG

 

[This message was edited by seneca on June 04, 2003 at 06:31 AM.]

---

 

Many people are fearful and disgusted by the homosexual lifestyle.

 

They have a right to complain, it is called free speech, not gay bashing.

[+seneca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by solohiker:

Many people are fearful and disgusted by the homosexual lifestyle.

They have a right to complain, it is called free speech, not gay bashing.

---

 

Yeah, you may be right, but ,

 

“Exercising free speech to complain about being fearful and disgusted by the homosexual lifestyle”

 

just takes so long to say.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

[solohiker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

quote:

---

Originally posted by solohiker:

Many people are fearful and disgusted by the homosexual lifestyle.

They have a right to complain, it is called free speech, not gay bashing.

---

 

Yeah, you may be right, but ,

 

“_Exercising free speech to complain about being fearful and disgusted by the homosexual lifestyle_”

 

just takes so long to say.

 

_I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me._

http://www.cslaw.ca/geol4.JPG

 

---

 

Agreed. Then why is the term 'faggot' so offensive to the pro-gay lobby? Is anyone really expected to use the phrase, "Exercising free speech to complain about being fearful and disgusted by the homosexual lifestyle?"

 

Free speech is not without sacrifice.

 

Homosexual bars are great!

 

Homosexuals using public parks to have sex or troll for sex is unacceptable.

 

This is just my opinion. I influence my opinions by my actions.