Satellite shutdown

January 1, 2003

Just saw a Canadian newscaster waving his GPSr around and talking about its virtues in the field and then saying something like " the Americans say they will shut the satellites down when they go to war just like they did in the Gulf last time." Anyone hear about that?

6.5k · January 1, 2003

Can't say as I have, course I don't watch Canadian newscasters

January 1, 2003

Count your blessings.

January 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:
...the Americans say they will shut the satellites down when they go to war just like they did in the Gulf last time." Anyone hear about that?

Did we really shut down the satellites during the Gulf war? I thought they had ways to selectively to scramble the signal for specific areas.

3k · January 1, 2003

hmmmmmmm.

I could see them turning SA back on but shutting down the non-military side of the sats would be a bit surprising.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

January 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by umc:
I could see them turning SA back on but shutting down the non-military side of the sats would be a bit surprising.

So if our accuracy suddenly goes to pot, can we expect that a bomb is on its way?

3k · January 1, 2003

Good question.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

1.4k · January 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:
Just saw a Canadian newscaster waving his GPSr around and talking about its virtues in the field and then saying something like " the Americans say they will shut the satellites down when they go to war just like they did in the Gulf last time." Anyone hear about that?

I guess WaldenRun and I will be the only ones finding very many caches...

3.8k · January 1, 2003

Actually I believe that S/A was turned off during the Gulf war. Not positive why but I think it was to allow use of recreational GPSr's by coalition members.

4.4k · January 1, 2003

From Big Brother, there wasn't enough military grade recievers at the time so (We) got to use the civilian grade....how accurate are they..... (.004) 4/1000th of a percent in the center of the BULL'S EYE. close enough for me.Subcentimeter.The more expensive units have more decimal points that is the main diffrence,the smaller the fraction the more precise the measurement.

When all else fails Geotry again.

January 2, 2003

It's the "when" that scares me. If would be a little more comforting

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

January 2, 2003

Well, If I recall..

There was no shutdown during the Gulf War.

Simply because the GPS was introduced during the Gulf War.

I remember watching CNN and seeing them talk about this New Invention that allowed our soldiers to be aware of thier location at all times.

And being an Avid Fisherman, that already had a a Lorance System, thinking to myself, I need one of those....

There was no shutdown during the Gulf War.

Simply because there were literally no Public/Private use GPS at the time of the Gulf War.

I would not worry too much about the Government shutting this down, could you imagine the impact?

Almost every, if not all airlines would be grounded, all cruise ships would be docked, all Cadilac On Star owners would be Crying the Blues.

Every Hiker on the side of a mountain somewhere would be lost and stranded till they turn it back on....

Almost Every Charter boat fisherman would be lost at sea....

I think we can all rest assure that GPS will not be shut off...

They may put that Selective deal back on there, but I doubt that too...

If 50 feet one way or the other really makes a diffrence when calling in an air strike, they might, but I doubt it

January 2, 2003

If a war breaks out in the middle east, we will have a lot more to worry about then will our GPSr work. Oil supplies will almost certainly be disrupted and we may not have enough gasoline to even get to work. I remember the gas lines of the seventies and I also remember a war with a tiny country that we just stumbled into and lost. If we keep rolling the dice of war, sooner or later we are going to come up snake eyes again.

January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jonboy:
If a war breaks out in the middle east, we will have a lot more to worry about then will our GPSr work. Oil supplies will almost certainly be disrupted and we may not have enough gasoline to even get to work. I remember the gas lines of the seventies and I also remember a war with a tiny country that we just stumbled into and lost. If we keep rolling the dice of war, sooner or later we are going to come up snake eyes again.

Q. What did the farmer say when Chicken Little told him the sky was falling?

A. Holy $%#t!!! A talking chicken!

--------------------------------------------------

Friends don't let friends cache locationless!

Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

Michigan Geocaching Organization

January 2, 2003

quote:
Q. What did the farmer say when Chicken Little told him the sky was falling?

A. Holy $%#t!!! A talking chicken!

That is too funny

Darkmoon

No, I am not lost...I am where I am suppose to be...At least I think so?

1.6k · January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by PDOP's:
Actually I believe that S/A was turned off during the Gulf war. Not positive why but I think it was to allow use of recreational GPSr's by coalition members.

That's exactly how I remember it. We didn't have enough military grade units to go around, so they issued civilian units and shut off SA.

That tells me they're not too worried about the enemy using GPS.

CR

1.4k · January 2, 2003

I was too busy fighting and surviving in the first Gulf War to worry about SA. I can tell you that my compass and map never lost accuracy, unless I was too tired! But mostly, we navigated by dead reconning. Just follow the tracks of the vehicle ahead of you. Once the tracks were established, it was easy. MSR Texas from Rafah KSA to As Salman Iraq was a 4 lane unpaved highway!

I must add that if turning on SA will make our soldiers safer, I am all for it. My son has taken my place in the operation.

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by PDOP's:
Actually I believe that S/A was turned off during the Gulf war. Not positive why but I think it was to allow use of recreational GPSr's by coalition members.

Just to clarify, SA was turned off in May of 2000 by President Clinton, not President Bush during the Gulf War. Also, the GPS system has been in service for the military since the late 1970s and for civilian use since the early 1980s.

2.5k · January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jonboy:
I also remember a war with a tiny country that we just stumbled into and lost. If we keep rolling the dice of war, sooner or later we are going to come up snake eyes again.

The greater loss was the loss of the young men we sent away to become heroes and returned as scapegoats instead.

1.3k · January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Leno:
......Almost every, if not all airlines would be grounded, all cruise ships would be docked, all Cadilac On Star owners would be Crying the Blues.

Every Hiker on the side of a mountain somewhere would be lost and stranded till they turn it back on....

Almost Every Charter boat fisherman would be lost at sea....

Good Grief! What did we do before the GPS?

"You are only young once but you can stay immature forever"

4.4k · January 2, 2003

www.navcen.uscg.gov Remember the compass and the sextant there is always other forms of navigation, Look to the North Star on this Hemisphere anyway....

And on the topic of the signal + - I have posted before,The offensive/defensive capabilities.That is to manipulate the enemy into a desired set of readings he he he hehehehe we always have the upper hand, regardless it's our system,Remember (Star Wars)Space Shuttle and the First Strike Capabilities,the Laser has been perfected for years, that we control,(Space Station).Hope that everyone reads into this for the comfort and security of our Nation as a Whole. I myself am like many others and have lost good friends and family for the Defense of this Country and do not want to haphazardly go into any conflicts.We will just have to decide (what is)? right for our Country.

When all else fails Geotry again. Executive order 12906,President Clinton,do not know exact date of turn of or by which President,This Order 12906,is the Geospatial Infrastructure,that is to allow the Public Access to the GPS signal and The data derived and used for the mapmaking and new models of the Data,if you study a little you will find that as soon or near to the turn off the is when the adjustment and the data sheets are corrected to... could go on and on

[This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on January 02, 2003 at 11:29 AM.]

[This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on January 02, 2003 at 11:36 AM.]

[This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on January 02, 2003 at 11:39 AM.]

1.2k · January 2, 2003

During the gulf war President Bush DID turn off SA and military units were issued a lot of civilian units for use. At the end of the gulf war SA was reinstituted till it was determined it was no longer necessary during the "Clinton" fiasco era. The reason SA was turned off during the war was obviously because the civilian units were not accurate enough with it on. Most of us still didn't have them, but for the few that did they were quite handy. Try being a Support Platoon Leader supporting a Tank Battalion and navigating around with ZERO landmarks....LOL. Especiallly if they were ordered to move while you're narrow butt was up at the main supply point picking up main gun ammo in about fourteen 5 ton trucks.....

Sigh.... the good old days.....LOL.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

January 2, 2003

"Good Grief! What did we do before the GPS?"

Well, to ask that question would be along the same lines as "What did we do before Electricity?"

Yes, I know that we as Americans did things before GPS, but now, Billions of Applications world wide have completly converted over to GPS.

To shut down GPS now would to say the least Paralize the transportation industry for a short time.

It is simply not worth it to mess with.

And by the way, there are probably several of those sattelites that are privatly owned I would guess, and the government simply could not get them shut down..

GPS has infiltrated the American Way of life to the degree that it is as important as the Telephone.

Semi trucks run up and down the highway's now with GPS tracking, and Virtually all comercial Aircraft use GPS navigation...

Another thing to ponder, Does America ownb all the GPS sattelites up there ?

Does Russia have a few ?

If so, shutting down ours would be simply Ridiculas, since I am sure that other countries would not hestitate to sell their GPS machines to our enemies and let them do as they please...

Don;t worry about GPS shutting down, it is really a Non-Issue....

January 2, 2003

If they shut down the sattelites, i can take this aluminium foil out from under my hat.

SR and dboggny.

1.1k · January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:
Just saw a Canadian newscaster waving his GPSr around and talking about its virtues in the field and then saying something like " the Americans say they will shut the satellites down when they go to war just like they did in the Gulf last time." Anyone hear about that?

One badly informed newscaster.

Cheers, Kerry.

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

1.4k · January 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Olar:

Good Grief! What did we do before the GPS?

I orienteered!

January 3, 2003

I'm very new to GPS topics, but remembered reading that any plans for war included facilities to "scramble" GPS signals locally (sort of like an anti-WAAS signal).

I agree with what had been said earlier, if GPS is disabled, everything from cruise ships to UPS trucks would be affected.

quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:
Just saw a Canadian newscaster waving his GPSr around and talking about its virtues in the field and then saying something like " the Americans say they will shut the satellites down when they go to war just like they did in the Gulf last time." Anyone hear about that?

2.5k · January 3, 2003

Phrack magazine has an anonymous article on building a low cost GPS jammer. It might be funny to place a cache with one of these nearby and see how long it takes for someone to find it. Then again, it might not be so funny.

January 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Leno:
I would not worry too much about the Government shutting this down, could you imagine the impact?

Almost every, if not all airlines would be grounded, all cruise ships would be docked, all Cadilac On Star owners would be Crying the Blues.

Every Hiker on the side of a mountain somewhere would be lost and stranded till they turn it back on....

Almost Every Charter boat fisherman would be lost at sea....

I'm hoping that you were kidding.

Regarding boating and GPS, prudent sailors always assume that the GPS system will break at the worse time. I tell my crew never to rely on electronics because you're just one blown fuse away from not having it.

Cruise ships not leaving the dock? GPS is a luxury. They still teach celestial navigation at the maritime and naval academies.

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

January 3, 2003

check out this page for a brief history of gps and what happened during the gulf war.

January 3, 2003

I think we could do with out GPS for a while. Aircraft do not use GPS for navagation because it is not reliable enough and does not give info about its health (this is what the are hoping WAAS will eventually do, and its in testing).

Truck drivers know their way around the country enough so that they will not get lost. But some delay should be expected since GPS is used to keep drivers on track and organized.

Boaters would be most effected, but as others say they have other methods to navigate (loran TD, dead recon, sextan, etc...).

The civilan user section can get by the same way they did just a few years before (I am figuring most people just got intrested in the last few years).

Wyatt W.

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

1.1k · January 3, 2003

Talk about shutting GPS down as we can do without navigation is just ONE function and not taking the overall context of what this thing actually is doing.

Cheers, Kerry.

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

January 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by phantom4099:
I think we could do with out GPS for a while. Aircraft do not use GPS for navagation because it is not reliable enough and does not give info about its health (this is what the are hoping WAAS will eventually do, and its in testing).

The FAA has approved the use of GPSrs for reporting progress along airways detailed in a flight plan. In addition, GPSrs are very popular for "direct to" navigation in general aviation. In fact, most terminal approach charts usually have procedures for GPS approaches. Shutting off civilian GPS or reintroducing SA would now pose some level of difficulty (and/or convenience) to GA.

Along with expanding the WAAS capability, LAAS (local area augmentation systems) are in development and testing for aproaches, landings and departures. Anyone have updated info on the development and testing of LAAS? I believe there was some formal testing in Canada ... anyone?

BP

1.4k · January 5, 2003

The Iraqi army can't hurl sticks or stones far enough for us to worry about GPS guided sticks hitting us.

Seriously though, I have no input to this except that I'm still laughing about the Chicken Little joke.

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

January 5, 2003

This is just MO.

First>>>UncleSam/BigBrother/TheGovernment/ will do what they will.

Second>>>>I can't imagine not having a backup system. I worked in a hospital & when the SYSTEM went down, it was back to the old way. Paper & pencil. Get up off your butt & go get it. We didn't quit taking care of the patients.

rocker51

1.1k · January 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BletchleyPark:

.... LAAS (local area augmentation systems) are in development and testing for aproaches, landings and departures. Anyone have updated info on the development and testing of LAAS? I believe there was some formal testing in Canada ... anyone?

I thought LAAS systems were already certified in the USA as Norfolk Island was the first internationally certified LAAS by the FAA.

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/norfolk_traffic/

Cheers, Kerry.

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

January 8, 2003

I haven't been keeping up on this lately. I'll do some research to see which (US) airports are running LAAS operations. I suppose that the LAAS avionics will cost a bundle of $$$ initially.

BP

Satellite shutdown

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