Cache Thieves?

1.5k · May 3, 2003

After speaking with another geocaching buddy this evening, I learned of a potentially serious problem. It appears there is a new caching team going by the name Captain Mad Morty McVane (Cache_Pirate). Based on their cache notes and profile, it appears that they might be leaving the cache behind, but taking all the cache contents. I'm hoping at least one of the cache owners will come forward quickly and state whether or not this is actually true. Sadly, I have a feeling it IS true, and that we have some teenage pranksters on our hands, that we will all have a hard time putting a stop to.

Brian

Team A.I.

May 3, 2003

they need to banned ASAP. can Jeremy block their IP address from coming on to the site??

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure."

- Dan Quayle

"Si nous ne r?ussissons pas nous courons le risque d'?chec."

- Dan Quayle (If he was French!) [Those crazy French!]

English: Radman Version 2.0

Spanish Versi?n 2,0 De Radman

Portuguese: Vers?o 2,0 De Radman

Italian: Versione 2,0 Di Radman

1.5k · May 3, 2003

That was my first thought, blocking the IP at the firewall, but...are they dial-up users, does their ISP change the IP every few hours?

It's one of those iffy things that without being on the IT side of this site and knowing how the inner-workings are, you can't really come up with any kind of solution aside from simply reporting the activity.

Brian

Team A.I.

1.3k · May 4, 2003

Once again, I would suggest that all local cachers be informed by email, then a "fake" cache put out that is supposed to contain dvd's and other valuable items. Have the locals log "finds" and trades to the page, and gleefully enjoy the satisfaction of knowing it's driving the pirates nuts that they're the only ones that can't find it. Or, you could allways lie in wait with camera in hand.

"Searching with my good eye closed"

38.2k · May 4, 2003

quote:
Or, you could allways lie in wait with camera in hand.

...and baseball bat.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

May 4, 2003

How long did you think it would take for some ScumBag to start doig this. It's inevetible...

Unfortunately, Short of doing some thing Illegal, There's nothing we can do about it, Absolutely nothing...

It's a real bummer too.

Damian Mueller

damian007@optusnet.com.au

May 4, 2003

quote:
I'm hoping at least one of the cache owners will come forward quickly and state whether or not this is actually true.

It would seem your question about the plundering is answered here http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=67154

The subsequent cachers state the items have not been taken.

1.7k · May 4, 2003

Those computer log entries were made after the miscreant made his computer entry. At no point do we have any idea in what order each team came to the cache itself. For all we know, he may have been the last one there that day and the first to log on the computer.

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

1.6k · May 4, 2003

Sounds simply like an MO to me, something like Zartimus (sp?) caching in the persona of Batman.

Hoping this is so!

CR

May 4, 2003

I always put the time I was at the cache, at the beginning of my log entries. If a cache is plundered it helps narrow down when.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

2.5k · May 4, 2003

It appears that they are just having some fun creating a mystique around their cache name. As long as the caches are not really being plundered, I don't see anything wrong with their logs.

May 4, 2003

However if someone was plundering caches, I would think Jeremy would have some legal recourse. Not that he'd want to take the time and expense to sue, but he could certainly send them a legally threatening letter letting them know that they're breaking their contract for site usage, and that it is legally actionable.

1.5k · May 4, 2003

Well, from Judy&Dick on down, you haven't seen the latest note:

THE CACHE HAS INDEED BEEN 'PLUNDERED'!

The container was there, with the log inside, but no other contents. Cap'n Morty would do well to remember that this is Arizona, and we don't take kindly to rustlers in these parts, western justice is swift and immediate.

What people aren't realizing is the order in which the cache logs are listed is not necessarily the order in which they were found. azcachemeister located the cache this morning and discovered that it had indeed been plundered.

Brian

Team A.I.

[edit]

I could see significant problems for these 'cachers' in the very near future if they happen upon a cache that either another team is currently at, or they are interrupted by another team. There are enough logs around here showing teams running into other team that this might not be too difficult to do. Depending on who finds them, it might not be pretty.

[/edit]

[This message was edited by Brian - Team A.I. on May 04, 2003 at 10:56 AM.]

May 4, 2003

I can see the Cache Log NOW.....Approaching cache we found a skeleton tied spread eagle over an anthill with lots of fire ants crawling over it. There was a note in teh cache saying...if you find Captain Mad Morty McVane nearby please leave him alone....we decided to make him a permanate fixture for all his plundering. Do you have anthills in AZ?

Beware the darkside......

Give me a Tall ship, and a Star to steer her bye...

The White Fleet....

May 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:
Well, from Judy&Dick on down, you haven't seen the latest note:

THE CACHE HAS INDEED BEEN 'PLUNDERED'!

This kind of activity was bound to happen sometime. Maybe the jerk will lose interest before too long.

1.6k · May 4, 2003

Well, poop! That's no good.

A'right mates! Lookouts Alofts! Break out the muskets, the cutlasses, and grapling hooks. Let's spy this scurge, come broadside and let'em taste lead. It's time to board this pirate ship! Then once we have this scurge in 'r 'ands we'll keel 'ual 'em and then make'em walk the plank to feed 'em to the sharks and put their ship at the bo'om of the sea!

Argh!

Ahem, well anyway, like I said, poop, that's no good!

CR

1.5k · May 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by geo-Packrat:
I can see the Cache Log NOW.....Approaching cache we found a skeleton tied spread eagle over an anthill with lots of fire ants crawling over it. There was a note in teh cache saying...if you find Captain Mad Morty McVane nearby please leave him alone....we decided to make him a permanate fixture for all his plundering. Do you have anthills in AZ?

Beware the darkside......

Give me a Tall ship, and a Star to steer her bye...

The White Fleet....

Yes, and the fire ants around here are brutal, to say the least. All I can say about this cacher is if I find this...person plundering a cache, they'll have to rush home to change their underwear by the time I'm done venting.

Brian

Team A.I.

May 4, 2003

well, i guess that we could take some solace in the fact that they are lazy. the 9 caches that they plundered only 1 could be considered tough, with a 3 difficulty rating. my best guess would be that they are infact kids and that being kids they will run out of caches in their immediate area and are too lazy to bike a distance of anymore than 6-8 miles.

interestingly enough if you plot the cache locations on a map most are mear the highway 101 and that 2 of the caches are 25 miles away. this appears to be 2 clusters of plundered caches....posibly 2 groups of kids with too much time?

'Get to the point---speak English!!!!'

9.4k · May 4, 2003

I'm sure the fine Arizona cachers can take care of this problem, but if any help is needed I'm only a daytrip away

1.7k · May 4, 2003

That miscreant would do well to remember that many Arizona cachers are in law enforcement and others are current or ex-military. Others just plain have a mean streak in them. We are a strong community and we will be able to deal with this in some type of fashion. But let's hope it is not the "if it bleeds, it leads" kind of news event. Brian's right, geocachers are always seeing each other on the trail. Sooner or later he'll be spotted.

Team GPSaxophone, the offer of help is definitely appreciated but you don't need an excuse such as a cache thief to come out here, visit, and play. We welcome visiting cachers. Come on down next time there's an event cache.

******************

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

2.5k · May 4, 2003

Sigh, I'm sure it's not the loot he's after, it's got to be the reactions in the posts and in the forums. Sorry to hear they are getting plundered. I'll pass along the advice that was given to me when mine were plundered...move on and try to hide them better. I know it doesn't help fix what already happened, but there's not many choices. The fact that the containers and log books are left behind indicates that he's not trying to ruin the game, just stir up some attention.

May 4, 2003

I'm very new to this but this "plundering" seems like a very obvious vandal. Anytime people rely on others to basically 'be good' we can also expect to be disapointed.

What we can do is figure out the exact area that he is "plundering" and set up a trap. I used to live in both Phoenix and Tucson and I know that it's probably possible to set up a cache near someone's home. Use your imagination after that.

On the other side of things we shouldn't put things in caches that we don't want to get rid of. I am currently trying to get a gold ring back from my exgirlfriend... I'll set up a complicated cache and then you will see a real pirates treasure. (female cachers ring size 6 look out.)-This guy is small potatoes.

9.4k · May 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking:
Team GPSaxophone, the offer of help is definitely appreciated but you don't need an excuse such as a cache thief to come out here, visit, and play. We welcome visiting cachers. Come on down next time there's an event cache.

I almost went for the last one (2 weeks ago or so) but I didn't find out about it until the day before. I couldn't take off of work on that short notice. I have visited a few caches on my trips through there.

May 5, 2003

why not make the caches "member's only" then if these kids want to join up that is better

or make the site to require you to have a userID to access and searches

then your server logs would show where this person is coming from, not to mention they would need to have a validated account, which TPTB can disable, and would need to approve each new account..... I know that this is more work then TPTB have time for

9.4k · May 5, 2003

I banned this account on May 3rd, and sent an email to the owner of another (real) account who owns cache_pirate. I have yet to receive a response. If I don't get one soon I'll ban that account too and work to block their IP from access. Unfortunately they are an Earthlink customer so it would be hard to ban him without banning all of Earthlink.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

2.3k · May 5, 2003

Better yet, why not call Earthlink and let them know what is happening from that particular addy? I bet they would get their entire service dropped for using Earthlink as a means to commit criminal acts.

[This message was edited by TEAM 360 on May 06, 2003 at 10:20 AM.]

2.2k · May 6, 2003

Here is a confirmation that this scum bag is actually cleaning out the caches that he visits. Read the last log. RM

May 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:
I banned this account on May 3rd, and sent an email to the owner of another (real) account who owns cache_pirate. I have yet to receive a response. If I don't get one soon I'll ban that account too and work to block their IP from access. Unfortunately they are an Earthlink customer so it would be hard to ban him without banning all of Earthlink.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Hello,

If you can look at a few of the IP's that they have used to log into the system, you should be able to find which dialup bank they are using to access the site. Once you have that, it's easy enough to block just that bank . . . so long as no other members are using the same bank.

-Will

4.4k · May 6, 2003

I hope this stops.I have had a couple plundered and (they)are not even a member of Geocaching,heard it through the Grapevine there are alot of users not being members or registered using this site.It is the same in all of life though,get something good happening and someone always has to sc**w it up...oh well life goes on and we will catchum pard.

THE MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL IN THE FOREST DOES NOT EVEN LIVE THERE*********WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS*GEOTRYAGAIN **1803-2003 "LOUSIANA PURCHASE" 200TH ANNIVERSARY AND THE "LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION" http://www.lapurchase.org http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

May 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by wfosborn:
Hello,

If you can look at a few of the IP's that they have used to log into the system, you should be able to find which dialup bank they are using to access the site. Once you have that, it's easy enough to block just that bank . . . so long as no other members are using the same bank.

-Will

Heck, if the ISP co-operates, a time and date the IP was in use should be enough for them to determine which account it was issued to for that session. Not sure what recourse is avaliable though, you can always email abuse@ and see what happens, rather than banning the whole bank.

May 6, 2003

Jeremy, I still say make it so you have to be a registered user to do a search for a cache, or at least have it block the exact coords. as it stands now, the theives can still surf to this site and search for caches and pilfer them.

I can see just blocking the theifs account just pissing them off more, at least with an active account he was logging his thefts, now we have no clue where he's been

May 6, 2003

It sounds like he needs to be given a different name since he is opening the caches, taking all that is cherished, logging the book and leaving.

How about: BUTT_PIRATE

May 6, 2003

I am surprised to see this one so close to home!

I am sure Jeremy has thought of plenty of things to do to prevent this person from doing this again.

I doubt there is much, but this person will get bored I am sure of it.

Also like someone else has mentioned he is only hitting easy caches. That rules all 2 out of 6 of my caches out. It stinks because I hit easy caches with my daughter on weekends and at lunch and harder ones on the "free" days

I think he will get tired of this and quit.

8k · May 6, 2003

Someone had posted that what this guy is doing is illegal.

Hey, someone left a box out in the desert with a note that says take anything you want just leave something in exchange. Ok. This guy takes everything and leaves nothing. I don't see how he is any more of a thief than someone who always trades down.

Half the people on this site say they don't geocache for the trade. Many routinely just sign the log. There are many micro caches that only have a log. Maybe some kid will be disappointed to find nothing to trade in a cache, but his parents might find it easier to explain a looted cache than one with a condom or a monkey with big genitalia.

Many have said that you must expect caches to be taken either by accidental finders who don't know better or by over zealous land managers and self-appointed leave-no-trace police. I suppose that some of you are more riled by this guy because he appears to be a geocacher.

I don't see the need to make threats or for Jeremy to go to extraordinary length to block this user. Just accept it as another hazard of geocaching. Perhaps, as previous post says, he will get tired of this and quit.

-- I found it in the last place I looked.

2.3k · May 6, 2003

Oh, ok then. Thanks.

5.9k · May 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:
Better yet, why not call Earthlink and let them know what is happening from that particular addy? I bet they would get their entire service dropped for using Earthlink as a means to commit criminal acts.

[This message was edited by TEAM 360 on May 06, 2003 at 10:20 AM.]

This in gettin' ugly.......

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

1.7k · May 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by tozainamboku:
Someone had posted that what this guy is doing is illegal.

Hey, someone left a box out in the desert with a note that says take anything you want just leave something in exchange. Ok. This guy takes everything and leaves nothing. I don't see how he is any more of a thief than someone who always trades down.

Half the people on this site say they don't geocache for the trade. Many routinely just sign the log. There are many micro caches that only have a log. Maybe some kid will be disappointed to find nothing to trade in a cache, but his parents might find it easier to explain a looted cache than one with a condom or a monkey with big genitalia.

Many have said that you must expect caches to be taken either by accidental finders who don't know better or by over zealous land managers and self-appointed leave-no-trace police. I suppose that some of you are more riled by this guy because he appears to be a geocacher.

I don't see the need to make threats or for Jeremy to go to extraordinary length to block this user. Just accept it as another hazard of geocaching. Perhaps, as previous post says, he will get tired of this and quit.

What he did was not illegal, but it was bad manners. Some new geocachers were upset and one may or may not continue caching. Of the nine caches he hit, 2 were owned by one team. They were upset enough to archive one cache. You may think no harm was done, but there was. If he wanted to make a game of this, perhaps he should have been a little more upfront about his intentions and stated in his profile how he wanted to play a joke on cachers.

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

May 7, 2003

I think the Pirates actions are being mischaracterized in this thread. Their intent, if you read their profile and their logs, is/was to take the contents of a cache (excepting the log book and the container), bag them with the name of the cache they came from, and move them to another cache. Presumably, they want some subsequent finder to replace the contents at a later time.

Now, I'm not saying whether or not I support their decision to... alter the game in this manner (obviously Jeremy does not), but I just wanted all the facts to be on the table.

I think its an interesting turn of events, and I understand why people may frown on these actions being taken against their cache, without their approval, but I applaud their gumption, and their ability to think outside the box.

Let me ask you this. What if, whenever the Pirates "pirated" a cache, they left behind the contents of another, nearby cache, with instuctions on where the contents belong... AND they added some nice items to the contents. Would that be acceptable?

This way, there are still contents left in every cache plundered (although not the contents that belong there), the Pirates are trading up, and their sub-game still continues.

Pan

The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there.

2.3k · May 7, 2003

Pantalaimon-"I think the Pirates actions are being mischaracterized in this thread. Their intent, if you read their profile and their logs, is/was to take the contents of a cache (excepting the log book and the container), bag them with the name of the cache they came from, and move them to another cache. "

"MISCHARACTERIZED"? ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? THIS GUY IS GOING AROUND STEALING!! Yes, it's stealing. YOU need to read all the cache logs from this guy. He's not putting ANYTHING back into other caches. It certainly is not the cache owners intent to have one person take all the contents of the cache. Remember reading "take an item, leave an item"? Yea, that one. It's not "here's a box of stuff, help yourself". Each cache owner has the say-so on requirements of the find of the cache, just as each cache owner expects items to be TRADED, not stolen. Go back and read the rules of this game. Better yet, concentrate on being FAIR AND HONEST TO OTHERS (remember those, too?).

The fact that it's cheap McToys being stolen doesn't bother me. It's the fact that that they are being stolen and we have to deal with a thief, a person of low moral character, who simply steals items that were placed there for the enjoyment of all, not just one. Let me catch this person in the act. And you "applaud" their gumption? What does that tell us about YOUR character? Best to keep the Pirate's caching out of Arizona with that type of thinking.

Last line edited from "Best to keep your caching out of Arizona with that type of thinking". to "Best to keep the Pirate's caching out of Arizona with that type of thinking" because someone took it too personally and got all upset thinking I was pointing my finger at him instead of realizing that by using the word "your", I was generalizing.

[This message was edited by TEAM 360 on May 07, 2003 at 12:19 PM.]

May 7, 2003

quote:
"MISCHARACTERIZED"? ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? THIS GUY IS GOING AROUND STEALING!!

Actually, no. I'm not f***ing kidding you.

Don't take your ball and quit again 360, because I'm going to respond to your post, and my words may not please you. I'll see what I can do to reign it in though, because I don't like listening to crying.

(By the way, for someone who quit the game, albeit briefly, for the way people responded to your posts: Um... Pot? This is Kettle. You're black.)

quote:
Yes, it's stealing. YOU need to read all the cache logs from this guy. He's not putting ANYTHING back into other caches.

First, I have read all of the Pirate's posts. In fact, here, I'll quote one for you:

"Capt Mad Mortey McVane here, as with all caches I have plundered and will plunder in the future. I take and bag/tag only the contents to be placed at another location for another cacher to find replaced at the original cache by the finder. Capt Mad Mortey McVane does not EVER remove the container or logbook."

Just like I tried to point out with my above post. He seems to take the items and leave them at "another location" for the cache owner to retrieve. I admit, I'm assuming "another location" means another cache.

Second, I don't think it is stealing, IF (nd this is a qualified IF) he is putting the items back into other caches. I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean its stealing.

Third, I said WHAT IF he was putting the items back. I have no evidence whether he is or not, I simply stated that it seems to be his ultimate intent.

And lastly, maybe you didn't hear me with the wind whipping through your hair during all the flying-off-the-handle you've been doing, but I didn't say I supported Pirate's little "sub-game," I simply think people aren't providing all the facts in this thread.

quote:
It certainly is not the cache owners intent to have one person take all the contents of the cache. Remember reading "take an item, leave an item"? Yea, that one. It's not "here's a box of stuff, help yourself". Each cache owner has the say-so on requirements of the find of the cache, just as each cache owner expects items to be TRADED, not stolen.

I don't think I said otherwise, however, I do take issue with your points.

This is off topic, but cache owners do not have the ultimate "say-so" on requirments of the find, TPTB do. For example, if, as a requirement of a find, I say you have to shoot the baby seals nesting nearby and wear their carcassas as a hat, with photographic evidence, me thinks I would find my cache archived right quick.

Also, I looked for a good eight hours, but I can't find on Geocaching.com where you were named the ultimate authority on what cache owners "expect" regarding trading in their cache. I haven't seen a cache that said "please take everything," but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Now, granted, I'm quite certain a huge majority of cache owners expect their caches to be treated as caches are generally treated these days, don't launch off on some argument over this, BUT let's take a look at the post of one of Pirate's victims:

"I am owner of pushing tin, a cache you hit. I have heard by reading the az geocache web page you have multiple accounts you are under. I also have learned of the whole idea of your game. I am not against it (you sign log book, leave it and notify owner of cache), please let me know wich id you will be using to re-hide cache items, I will want to search out my plundered goods :-) I would only object to your new varience of the geocaching game if you took major items out of caches (log books, travel bugs). I would suggest that you also offer to cache owners the right to not participate in your new game (by letting them ask you to re-stock plundered goods) as not everyone has a sence of humor on the new way you play. By the way Captain, For the honor of The King, I have to of course search you out for hanging as the laws of the high seas demand :-) So be watching your back yea low life pirate as I have accepted your chalenge and for the love of Country and King I vow your death to be near :-)"

Wow! Amazing! A cache owner who was plundered... who actually didn't mind the "trick!" I hope you shot off a nasty email about the rules of the game to them 360. Anything other than that would seem strangely out of character, and then I'd fear for your well being.

quote:
Go back and read the rules of this game.

I don't need to. I'm quite familiar with the rules. Your post amazes me, 360. You don't even know me, and again, I never condoned the Pirate's actions, yet you're telling ME to concentrate on being fair and honest? I think you need to reevaluate your posting techniques. Or maybe just your debating skills.

quote:
And you "applaud" their gumption? What does that tell us about YOUR character?

You tell me what it tells you about my character. I'd love to discuss my character with you. Although, I think you're somewhat at a disadvantage, because you don't know the first thing about me, and you're clearly heated about this topic. Combined, these two points does not a good debate make.

Honestly though, I don't even know what gumption means. I just wanted to say that I thought it was bold, and quite inventive of the Pirates to take the actions they did. I think they displayed initiative and aggressiveness, guts even, maybe a little spunk. Sure, maybe we all don't agree with their actions, or maybe they could have gone about it differently, but I will always applaud new ideas injected into this game, even if the ideas are not too well thought out, and clearly need development. (360, I'll always applaud postings on the boards too, under the same criteria.)

quote:
Best to keep your caching out of Arizona with that type of thinking.

I'm not sure if this is a threat, or an attempt at witicism, but actually, I've already cached a tiny bit in Arizona. Beautiful place that Arizona. I had no problems. Loved the locals.

And, oh yeah, by the way, did I mention that I WASN'T THE ONE PRACTICING THE PIRATE'S GEOCACHE CONTENTS "RELOCATING" TECHNIQUE! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT 360? CAN YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD?!

Please. I beg of you. Think before you post. Don't just pound out your response on the keyboard with your two index fingers. It will make for less hurt feelings all around.

Aside from all that, you never responded to my original question. What if they were leaving all the items from one cache, in another cache, and adding great and wonderful stuff to the booty? Would you still be as incensed as you seem to be?

Thanks. This has been fun.

Pan

The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there.

May 7, 2003

Heres there Profile

Capt Plunders Profile

Do you get funny looks from co-workers -when you say your going into the woods with a 200$ gadet to find kids toys?

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

2.5k · May 7, 2003

And if you check here you will see his other profile which details how he wants to play the game. The cache contents will be rehiden in another cache. He also has as part of his game finding him in the field.

Weight Man

2.3k · May 7, 2003

"It's your job to recover the contents and place them back whence they came from after I hide them again. "

That's what the Pirate says.

Here's what I say: It's not MY job to go recover my own cache contents. It's HIS job to leave them be, right where they were in the first place.

Yes, it is the cache owners say-so on what is to be done with the cache. If I don't get a photo uploaded with the find log on one of my caches, it gets erased. I can also stipulate that all trade items be a certain color, or size. I can also archive the cache and physically remove it. If I condone someone taking all the items, I will put a note: "Please take everything and leave it empty for the next geocacher". The owner controls his/her own cache. GET IT?

[This message was edited by TEAM 360 on May 07, 2003 at 10:53 AM.]

2.3k · May 7, 2003

(By the way, for someone who quit the game, albeit briefly, for the way people responded to your posts: Um... Pot? This is Kettle. You're black.)

And you're crying......

2.3k · May 7, 2003

"Aside from all that, you never responded to my original question. What if they were leaving all the items from one cache, in another cache, and adding great and wonderful stuff to the booty? Would you still be as incensed as you seem to be?"

How about this: Just don't mess with the cache in the first place? Simple enough concept for you to grasp? Please. I beg of you. Think before you post. Don't just pound out your response on the keyboard with your two index fingers. It will make for less hurt feelings all around.

[This message was edited by TEAM 360 on May 07, 2003 at 10:54 AM.]

9.1k · May 7, 2003

As the hider of a fair number of caches, I see this "game variation" as forcing me to make maintenance trips that I otherwise wouldn't have to make. I'd have to take time away from finding new caches, or replacing a full logbook at one of my caches, in order to "retrieve" the contents of my plundered cache. That would tick me off.

For families with kids, half the fun is rummaging through the trinkets at the cache. I stock my caches with nice trade goods, and keep 'em that way. Suppose the pirate plays his "game variant" on Saturday at one of my caches. On Sunday, a family of new geocachers with three kids in tow searches for that cache, and finds an empty container with a logbook. They did not have the caching experience which I intended for them. That would tick me off.

So, I learn that my cache's contents have been moved to another cache. I have one "theme" cache with two others in the works. Suppose all my theme items from a difficult multicache get moved to some junky park and grab, and are scooped up before I have a chance to "retrieve" them. That would tick me off.

This "game variant" sucks. I am very glad I live in a part of the country where everyone respects cache owners, we help each other out, and we find variations to keep busy with, but which do not have any adverse impact on other players.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

May 7, 2003

Well said Leprechauns.

My jury is still out on the actions of the Pirate. I don't have themed caches... so I don't know how this would affect me. I do understand, however, how the looting of a cache could be annoying to the unsuspecting owner of a themed cache.

Your argument about this "variation" having an adverse impact on others is a good one. I shall have to think on it more.

Pan

The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there.

May 7, 2003

quote:
How about this: Just don't mess with the cache in the first place? Simple enough concept for you to grasp?

Hello? 360? Are you in there? Are you still under the mistaken, misguided, utterly ignorant impression that I am the one doing these things?

Christ on a pony.

Pan

The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there.

2.3k · May 7, 2003

This dead Pirate says-

"So you don't like my twist on things ehhhh? Well if yee tag me or identify me in the field you must say so to me at the time of the sighting. Then Captain Mad Morty McVane will acknowledge the capture and a prize rewarded to the person or Team responsible.

No emails saying you saw me or the likes. It must be a field capture matey's. So many good idea's on how to catch me, but I sneer at yee fruitless meanderings. On with the hunt!"

Yea, I will tag him alright. It just won't be in the field. The only thing that is going to get hunted around this area is HIM. Why doesn't he just start his own cache and leave the rest of them alone? Well, he has no one to blame but himself for any actions that will be taken against him.

1k · May 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:
...I don't think it is stealing, IF (nd this is a qualified IF) he is putting the items back into other caches. I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean its stealing...

steal

Function: verb

1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice

2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly

3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base

transitive senses

1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car> b : to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty> c : to take surreptitiously or without permission

(from Merriam-Webster)

Pantalaimon,

If someone were to make a game of taking your car without your permission, moving it to an undisclosed location, and challenging you to find it, would you "applaud their gumption, and their ability to think outside the box"? If they had left in its place someone else's car of equal value (which they had also taken without permission), would that change anything?

You may not consider the pirate's actions to be stealing, but you are wrong. Read the definition; he is stealing. Whether he places the loot in another cache or replaces it with contents stolen from another cache is immaterial.

And while it's immaterial to the definition, has this person actually followed through on his stated intent to place the stolen items in another cache? Or is he a liar as well as a thief?

Worldtraveler

Cache Thieves?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment