Pantalaimon Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 The Groundspeak Forum Guidelines state: quote:Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. Today, in a thread he started, Jeremy (Admin) commented in the following manner about a post of ju66l3r: quote:What an asinine comment. Where was Hydee, or any other admin asking Jeremy (Admin) to "tone it down" in the forum, or maybe stating that he didn't add enough emoticons to the post to show he was kidding (both practices used in the past to issue a forum warning). Clearly, I can call you asinine. Jeers to Jeremy (Admin) for not leading by example. Jeers to the other Admins for not publicly calling Jeremy (Admin) on his violation of now clearly posted forum etiquette. Pan Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Someone bring the popcorn, this oughta be good... Brian www.woodsters.com Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:Someone bring the popcorn, this oughta be good... LOL.... POWDER!!!!!! Quote Link to comment
SLCDave Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Today, in a thread he started, Jeremy (Admin) commented in the following manner about a post of ju66l3r: What an asinine comment. Jeremy CLEARLY stated that the comment was asinine, not that ju66l3r was asinine. "I'm 35 Years old, I am divorced, and I live in van down by the river!" - Matt Foley Quote Link to comment
iryshe Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Yes, the comment was asinine. If I were to call someone asinine, I would say "You are asinine." It's all a matter of diction. A better asinine comment would be if the originator of a thread, let's say this one, posts another topic with full knowledge of who the piratecaching.com folks were. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location [This message was edited by Jeremy (Admin) on September 23, 2003 at 02:20 PM.] Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 1. I viewed the word as being directed to the comment made, rather than at the person who made it. There's a difference. Seneca helped educate me on this. 2. I didn't regard the word that was used as being "profane" but rather off-color. I've been fairly lenient in moderating language, having edited or cautioned against just a handful of posts. 3. Jeremy signs my paycheck and I cannot afford another penalty like when he docked my pay for making fun of Signal the Frog. Don't make me stop this car! Quote Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:Jeers to Jeremy (Admin) for not leading by example. Jeers to the other Admins for not publicly calling Jeremy (Admin) on his violation of now clearly posted forum etiquette. I actually had a response to this and other comments in that thread, but due to my forgetful use of the word n@vic@che.com (@=a) and lack of a copy of the UBB-coded text to edit my offense, it was lost to the ether of the internet. Thanks, Panta! -- http://www.nedevett.com/gollum.swf Quote Link to comment
+beckerbuns Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):A better asinine comment would be if the originator of a thread, let's say this one, posts http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=4016058331&m=16060388 with full knowledge of who the piratecaching.com folks were. Just to clarify: You're saying, Jeremy, that Pantalaimon knows who the cache pirates are? ------------------------------------- Becky Davis Geocaching blog San Jose, CA Quote Link to comment
SLCDave Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 A better asinine comment would be if the originator of a thread, let's say this one, posts another topic with full knowledge of who the piratecaching.com folks were. I'm confused, was that the sound of the gloves coming off, or the gauntlet being thrown down? "I'm 35 Years old, I am divorced, and I live in van down by the river!" - Matt Foley Quote Link to comment
+seneca Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Quoted from the guidelines: "general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated". However, it does looks like "comments" are open game! (I do wish they would modify those guidelines to exclude the prohibition on general attacks on ideas - such attacks can't be any worse than a general attack on a "comment"). I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 Whew! So much to reply to. First, for a minute there, in all the forum slowness, I thought my thread was deleted. Glad to see it made it through. Okay, here goes: First, I think that calling someone's comments names, rather than calling the person names is just "a red herring." For example, Keystone Approver, I think you're one of the most level headed poster/approvers here, so I'll use you as an example, because the following comments can't possibly be true. Keystone Approver, I think the last comment you made was the most yellow-bellied, weak-@ss, useless, stupidest piece of mindless tripe I ever read. Does anyone think that, were my words genuine, I didn't just attack Keystone Approver? I knew the first argument out of the gate would be "he was commenting on the comment, not the person," and, you're right, it is a matter of diction. But in essence, isn't saying you're attacking the comment rather than the person really just an underhanded way to get away with attacking someone? Maybe not. But maybe, just maybe, there was a better way for Jeremy to disagree with someone's opinion. Maybe not. (By the by, I read Seneca's thoughts on the subject too, I obviously don't agree.) Next: Jeremy calling my comment/thread asinine. (Okay, well, now I'm "daft" and my comments are "asinine." My stock isn't rising too high at geocaching.com.) It is true that I know who one of the geocaching pirates is/was. It is not true that I have "full knowledge of who the piratecaching.com folks were," as Jeremy implies. (Yes, I know, he didn't come out an accuse me of it, he merely implied that I might have knowledge. Come now, we all know what he meant, right?) Anyway, as I said, I do know who one of the "pirates" is/was. I have consistantly stated that I am not opposed to the idea of pirating if it is performed in a specific way. I had knowledge of one of the more benevolent pirates (in my opinion) actions, and I let those actions continue without public outster because for a while, I thought they might change the face of pirating. My opinion since has changed, and thus I began to formulate a way to combat pirates (thus, the above-referenced thread.) I believe that your method of attempting to implicate me as associated with the pirates, Jeremy, is less than honorable. You imply that I have knowledge of the entire cast of piratecaching.com, but that I am acting contrary to that knowledge. I do have knowledge of a pirate, but in what way is posting the above thread contrary to any statement I have made in support of, or in opposition to a pirate? Furthermore, in what way is my above thread contrary to anything I have said in support of, or in opposition to a pirate? Ultimately, I decided that although some pirates are attempting to be hororable (specifically, the one I have knowledge of), the activity will never work because there would always be copycats that were not honorable. Does that mean I should post the pirate's name in the forums, or would it be more effecting to try and combat pirates as a whole? Keystone Approver: I respect your opinion. You have always seemed level headed to me, however, I disagree with your decision to allow words directed at comments, rather than people. In some cases, I think they are one in the same. I would have no complaints, however, if you do your job exactly as you have been in the past. ju66l3r. You're welcome. Please call me Pan. Pan Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Quote Link to comment
+Brian - Team A.I. Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:The http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=9906058331&m=44260068&r=44260068#44260068 state: quote:Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. Today, in a thread he started, Jeremy (Admin) commented in the following manner about a post of ju66l3r: quote:What an asinine comment. Where was Hydee, or any other admin asking Jeremy (Admin) to "tone it down" in the forum, or maybe stating that he didn't add enough emoticons to the post to show he was kidding (both practices used in the past to issue a forum warning). Clearly, I can call you asinine. Jeers to Jeremy (Admin) for not leading by example. Jeers to the other Admins for not publicly calling Jeremy (Admin) on his violation of now clearly posted forum etiquette. Pan _Here there be tigers._ - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Well, it's as simple as this. Groundspeak and Geocaching.com are Jeremy's house. if you don't like it, leave. Maybe you can try your success at piratecaching.com or create anti-geocaching.com to cater to the disgruntled. I know of at least one who would probably wander over there. Brian Team A.I. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 Come, come now. Is this really a legitimate reply? If so, your comments are stupid. (Feel attacked?) Anyway, I would highly doubt that Jeremy posted that comment because he feels he is entitled to post whatever he wants because it is "[his] house." If that is the case, however, I would consider this discussion concluded if Jeremy simply stated that. While it is of course true that he is entitled to make such a rule, I don't think he is of the character to do so. Pan Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Quote Link to comment
+seneca Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:(By the by, I read Seneca's thoughts on the subject too, I obviously don't agree.) Pantalaimon, on the issue of appropriate forum postings, pursuant to the new forum guidelines, I don't think our opinions differ as much as you think. Attacking an idea or comment, can be (as you have demonstrated with your hypothetical example) an indirect personal attack. And I tend to agree with you, that Jeremy's "asinine" remark could reasonably be interpreted as a personal attack against you. If he did not intend it that way, then perhaps an apology would be in order. However, when people use strong language (which in my opinion should not be prohibited) there will always be the risk of personal offence being taken. In all fairness though, it is pretty clear that Jeremy is pretty steamed with what's been going on (and I don't blame him)and one can reasonably expect that some strong, offensive remarks in the heat of the moment might be made. In any event, I think it was a good idea that you brought the fact that you were personally offended to his attention. Its good for the forums. I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 Seneca, in my experience, you too have been a levelheaded poster. First, I should point out that Jeremy's comment wasn't made toward me, but at times, I take offense at (what I perceive to be) the attack of others. Second, I agreed that Jeremy may have reason to be steamed, and everything else that you said for that matter. Pan Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I expect to be treated the same way by the admins as anyone else in the forums. Feel free to say so, and slap me down. There will be no "repercussions" for doing so. Wasn't this topic creation a personal attack? Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy:Wasn't this topic creation a personal attack? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I would hear more of your argument relative to this topic, if you were so inclined to give it. As a point of clarification, however, because it might not have been clear in my initial post, the topic of this thread, and the identical sentence contained therein should be read as: "I can call you (plural) asinine," and not "I can call you (Jeremy) asinine." It is suppose to be meant to be applied to all who read it, not just to Jeremy. Now, in antcipation of the discussion as referenced above, I think that arguing that someone who comments on what is perceived as a personal attack, is also making an attack, is circular. To argue that point would mean that any forum moderator who disciplines someone on an attack would also be making an attack. I don't think that is the case. This post attempted to bring to the attention of the forum community a perceived attack from a public figure. Calling such a post an attack itself, in my opinion, evicerates the definition of an attack. Pan Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 Also, I'd like to add that I think it is unfair to dock Keystone Approver's pay just because he made fun of Signal the Frog. We all want to make fun of Signal the Frog. Pan Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums. Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Is he called signal because he has a light on the top of his head? Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:Is he called signal because he has a light on the top of his head? http://www.texasgeocaching.com Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ihazeltine/bandbass.gif Hehehehe, here we go again...LOL. As much as I hate to admit it, there have been some good points made here, and some steam vented, and some frustrations taken out and beat like a dirty rug.... probably good for everybody. I'm still tweaked about the *Army Of Frogs* thingy though....LOL. "Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on." Quote Link to comment
+Team Tecmage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Breaktrack: I'm still tweaked about the *Army Of Frogs* thingy though....LOL. The war goes on." I think I'm just plain old tweaked. Pirates, personal attacks, locationless caches, now virtuals!!! Man, give me the good old days when we all didn't get along, but it wasn't a big flame war. Quote Link to comment
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