georapper Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 are moving caches starting to get the nix by geocache admins? i was thinking of doing a moving/floating coordinate cache utilizing auto reply feature of an email utility. both the cache and the coordinates to the cache are moving in a local area, whenever someone finds the floating coordinates they update the webpage of the moving cache and identify where the cache is, likewise, whenever someone moves the cache, they log the coordinates on the cache webpage. the only link i still have left to close is how to get the floating coordinates updated to the new location of the moving cache? any ideas or is everyone totally confused. Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity Quote Link to comment
umc Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 They have been nixed for a while now so I wouldn't bother. __________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
georapper Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 what's the reasoning behind nixing the moving caches? are moving coordinates next? Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity Quote Link to comment
+erik88l-r Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 quote: Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity I'm afraid moving caches are beyond the bounds of conformity. Those that were placed prior to March 20th were not archived, but no new ones have been approved since. The concern is that there is no control over cache placement beyond it's original placement. A newbie might naively bury a cache next to the RR tracks running through a National Park while on vacation, for example. The exception are parasite caches - they move from existing cache to existing cache like travel bugs do. erik - geocaching.com admin Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I'm curious -- how many problems have there been with moving caches? Details please. ***** Quote Link to comment
georapper Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 a newby could place a cache by the rr tracks in a national forest anyway, it has nothing to do with the moving cache. that's really not a reason. i think the majority of geocachers are just plain lazy and decided it was to difficult to have to move a cache to log it. it's easy to get around the newby placing a cache in a bad spot, don't require a move to the cache to log it. if a newby does not feel competent enough to place the cache, they don't have to. but i waste my breath, it's already been decided by the more lazy of the bunch of geocachers. what's next to go, moving coordinates, caches that are just to darn hard to get to, like rapping caches, or caches that don't jump out and bite you in the *** when you get within 100feet?? are those next to go? Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity Quote Link to comment
umc Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by georapper:a newby could place a cache by the rr tracks in a national forest anyway, it has nothing to do with the moving cache. Well yes but hopefully the approver will discover that and take care of it from there. It does have to with it moving, how can you say it doesn't? quote:i think the majority of geocachers are just plain lazy and decided it was to difficult to have to move a cache to log it. I don't really think that the majority would agree with you on this note. quote:it's easy to get around the newby placing a cache in a bad spot, don't require a move to the cache to log it. if a newby does not feel competent enough to place the cache, they don't have to. traveling caches I've done don't require you to move them in order to log it so that is not necessary. Maybe you've done some that require that from the placer? quote:but i waste my breath, it's already been decided by the more lazy of the bunch of geocachers. again, not necessary. quote:what's next to go, moving coordinates, caches that are just to darn hard to get to, what? moving coordinates? isn't that the same thing? quote:like rapping caches, or caches that don't jump out and bite you in the *** when you get within 100feet?? are those next to go? Who are you really mad at here? __________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 quote: a newby could place a cache by the rr tracks in a national forest anyway, it has nothing to do with the moving cache. that's really not a reason. Sure, a newbie (or anyone) can place a cache in one of these places. And the admins won't approve it. The issue with traveling caches is that once they are released, there is no way to control its placement. This is a listing service. If you don't like the rules here, create your own, or go to another one. Sheesh, how lazy can you be? "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry Quote Link to comment
umc Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Whooops, I just laughed at the last part of Brian's post, I really must watch myself on that. __________________________ Caching without a clue.... Quote Link to comment
georapper Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 ok i got my good swift kick in the pants, i'll go back to the old boring geocaching method. i've been put in my place and given the whammi........ ouch, that hurts..... Creativity Within The Bounds Of Conformity Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 quote: ok i got my good swift kick in the pants, i'll go back to the old boring geocaching method. Maybe you're choosing the wrong caches to look for. Many of my recent finds were anything but boring and my one find of a moving cache was no big deal. I got the coordinates, went there and found it. What's the draw? "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry Quote Link to comment
Cholo Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc:Whooops, I just laughed at the last part of Brian's post, I really must watch myself on that. Yes, you could accidently put bait on that hook and ruin the whole fishing trip. Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Has anyone had any specific problems with a moving cache? If so, what kind of problems? Did problems occur more than once? ***** Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 So am I to assume that there have been no problems with moving caches since no one has replied to my questions? That being the case, I don't see why they're not allowed anymore. ***** Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I've been thinking about attacting a cache to the back of a 747. What do you think? "See the wonderous works of Providence! The uncertainty of human things!" Geo.Washington Quote Link to comment
+evergreenhiker! Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by EraSeek:I've been thinking about attacting a cache to the back of a 747. What do you think? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0308/shuttle747_nasa.jpg http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/4497_300.jpg _"See the wonderous works of Providence! The uncertainty of human things!" Geo.Washington_ Funny! Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jomarac5:So am I to assume that there have been no problems with moving caches since no one has replied to my questions? That being the case, I don't see why they're not allowed anymore. So you think it's just another arbitrary rule created out of nothing but hot air? Well, just wait ... one day TPTB will prohibit the placing of traditional caches, because there are no controls to prevent people from trading down. Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: BassoonPilot wrote:So you think it's just another arbitrary rule created out of nothing but hot air? So where are the problems? I haven't heard of any specific instances where moving caches have created problems. Let's hear some examples. The self-policing nature of the moving cache far out-weighs the possiblity that something might go against the rules -- moving caches are good tools for the caching community to teach new cachers how to hide caches properly. Conceivably, this could be someone surmising a problem might one day exist or if there have been problems, that they were perceived to be more significant than they actually were. We don't hear anything about problems with moving caches and one day we're told "No more moving caches" and that's that. Seems odd to me. Where's the problem? ***** Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: So where are the problems? I haven't heard of any specific instances where moving caches have created problems. Let's hear some examples. Is it wise to wait for a problem to occur before you take action? The potential for a problem exists and the website is being proactive. If they were really on the ball, they probably should archive all existing moving caches, but I guess their hope is that they all will eventually be "lost in transit". Besides, why all the whining here? There is a website that allows moving caches. Instead of kicking a dead horse, go there and place moving caches until kingdom come. "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry [This message was edited by BrianSnat on August 06, 2003 at 05:16 AM.] Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jomarac5: Seems odd to me. Where's the problem? (Note to Jomarac5: In case you missed the winky face, I was agreeing with you.) Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: Is it wise to wait for a problem to occur before you take action? The potential for a problem exists and the website is being proactive. I think in reality, the likelyhood that a moving cache would be 'illegally' placed is about the same as someone creating a cache that passes muster with the administrators and then editing the page to the actual location/conditions subsequent to approval. If the website was truly 'proactive,' they would send out an admin. or other volunteer to verify every new placement prior to approval. That would, of course, be impossible. Just about everything associated with geocaching depends on the good faith of the participants ... why should that not also apply to moving caches? As the former owner of a moving cache, how many people who participated in your cache violated your groundrules? Certainly, you are the ideal person to inform jomarac5 of the problems inherent to this type of cache. It's too bad you chose to blow him off instead of answering his reasonable question. [This message was edited by BassoonPilot on August 06, 2003 at 05:54 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 How is a moving cache owned by a responsible geocacher MORE of a problem than a newbie cache hidden by someone with, like, let's just say, 1 find??? This moving topic is getting boring. They aren't allowed, there are some grandfathered ones, and like, who cares? Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by canadazuuk:... and like, who cares? You know, there is a geocaching website where people don't care ... and since nobody goes there, there's probably a lot less whining. But it's also probably a lot more boring. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: Certainly, you are the ideal person to inform jomarac5 of the problems inherent to this type of cache. It's too bad you chose to blow him off instead of answering his reasonable question. Sure, as the former owner of a moving cache, I will. A veteran geocacher found my moving cache and posted the wrong coordinates when he moved it. It came very close to becoming geo-litter, but thanks to some detective work on the part of another geocacher, and a lot of luck, the cache was found...about 300 feet from the posted coordinates. "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:... It came very close to becoming geo-litter, but thanks to some detective work on the part of another geocacher, and a lot of luck, the cache was found...about 300 feet from the posted coordinates. I remember your cache page mentioned something like "you are responsible for the (moving part of the cache) until it has been found by the next seeker." A most reasonable requirement, in my opinion. One geocacher did not live up to his/her responsibility, and another picked up the slack. An excellent example of why there was no need to ban moving caches. Incidentally, many first-find logs on newly-approved traditional cache placements read exactly like your quote. Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: Is it wise to wait for a problem to occur before you take action? The potential for a problem exists and the website is being proactive. Proactivism is great and I fully support it, but some of that proactivism needs to spread around to some other areas and not just moving caches. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: Woodsters wrote:Proactivism is great and I fully support it, but some of that proactivism needs to spread around to some other areas and not just moving caches. Oh my, yes. Let's make more rules. In fact, let's make lots more rules. ***** Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jomarac5: quote: Woodsters wrote:Proactivism is great and I fully support it, but some of that proactivism needs to spread around to some other areas and not just moving caches. Oh my, yes. Let's make more rules. In fact, let's make lots more rules. ***** Where did you get "rules" out of my statement. Being proactive doesn not necessarily consitute "more rules". I sense a lack of discipline and not being able to adapt. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: BrianSnat wrote:A veteran geocacher found my moving cache and posted the wrong coordinates when he moved it. Ah, but you see -- this is what I was referring to as 'self-policing' -- since these caches move so frequently, an ill placed cache is remedied very quickly. You make it sound as though this incident was near catastrophic -- I doubt it was as bad as you make it out to be -- I'm sure someone could contact the previous hider and clarify the bad coords. But regardless, it sounds as though this instance was remedied quickly. Yes, there is a potential for a problem, but come on, there's potential problems with virtually everything. Perhaps we should all stay in our homes all day with the doors and windows locked? How serious a problem could it possibly be? We're talking about caches that are picked up on nearly a daily basis and are monitored by several cachers. I'd hazard a guess that if you took all the moving caches that are out there right now (or before) and look at the track record for problematic placements, it is extremely low to non-existent. Why is it, BrianSnat, that you seem to be the only one who jumps in here to slam moving caches everytime this subject is brought up? Is there some other problem here? Moving caches aid the caching community by providing a venue for new cachers to learn how to place a cache under the supervision of other cachers. They're a great tool that have a very useful purpose. ***** Quote Link to comment
+The Cache Couple Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Woodsters Outdoors Where did you get "rules" out of my statement. Being proactive doesn not necessarily consitute "more rules". I sense a lack of discipline and not being able to adapt. Brian I really don't have much of a say so on the moving caches but I have noticed that it seems as though that out of the 513 posts that Woodsters puts out it breaks down to about 5% being on the topic intended and roughly 95% going to defend himself for the first 5% of the originalk remarks he makes???? Just my 2 cents worth. The Cache Couple East TN Quote Link to comment
+RomadPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Since this is such a hot topic lately, instead of consistantly asking "What's the problem?" Why not review the rules for the placement of a traditional cache and reccommend set procedures for the placement of a moving cache. Those who are adament that they want to place a moving cache should get together and come up with the procedures and send them up for review of the approval authority. Problem solvers get more respect than problem finders. just my $ .02 Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Cache couple....if you will notice my remark was towards BrianSnat on the poractive bit. Jomarac5 didn't realize it either but I have no problem with moving caches. They have their place just as do all the other types out there. I agree with him(Jomamrc5) that I have not seen any problems mentioned on the forums for the moving caches or anything that denates a ban on it. Your remarks are totally off the topic here. Glad you can follow all my postings and keep a record! Become a Premium member and track my postings even better! Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump Quote Link to comment
+Stunod Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by The Cache Couple:I really don't have much of a say so on the moving caches but I have noticed that it seems as though that out of the 513 posts that Woodsters puts out it breaks down to about 5% being on the topic intended and roughly 95% going to defend himself for the first 5% of the originalk remarks he makes???? Just my 2 cents worth. The Cache Couple East TN LMAO! "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: Romad_Pilot wrote:Problem solvers get more respect than problem finders. Thanks for pointing out that problem. There is no problem with moving caches -- they police themselves. The solution is to stop (or ignore) the perception that they are a problem. ***** Quote Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote: The Cache Couple wrote:I really don't have much of a say so on the moving caches but I have noticed that it seems as though that out of the 513 posts that Woodsters puts out it breaks down to about 5% being on the topic intended and roughly 95% going to defend himself for the first 5% of the originalk remarks he makes???? Just my 2 cents worth. Ands now it's just changed to 96%. ***** Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Let me up my "numbers"! Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump Quote Link to comment
+Divine Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 By saying this: quote:I really don't have much of a say so on the moving caches ...and then this: quote:but I have noticed that it seems as though that out of the 513 posts that Woodsters puts out it breaks down to about 5% being on the topic intended ...(without reading your other posts) it seems as though that out of your 15 posts roughly 7% are not on the topic intended. I bet my percentage is way worse, though. - I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. - Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 LOL Divine, thanks! Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump Quote Link to comment
+RomadPilot Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jomarac5: quote: Romad_Pilot wrote:Problem solvers get more respect than problem finders. Thanks for pointing out that problem. There is no problem with moving caches -- they police themselves. The solution is to stop (or ignore) the perception that they are a problem. ***** The belief that something is not a problem, because it is not a problem for one individual, is faulty. I personnaly don't see moving caches as a problem, but clearly others do. "Can't we all just get along!" - Rodney King Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 OKAY, FAAR OUT MANN!! I LIKE MOVING CACHES I WANT 'EM BACK WANNA FIGHT SNATT?????? Quote Link to comment
+The Cache Couple Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Your remarks are totally off the topic here. Glad you can follow all my postings and keep a record! Become a Premium member and track my postings even better! Brian You know, I have been seroiously considering becoming a premium member to this site and you have given me reason to do so. After all following your posts will add a little more laughter to my life. It's just hilarious to me how that one person can have such a broad base and wide array of views and post so much on the forums. I have read in earlier posts that you run a web site and also a stay-at-home Dad. While I commend you on that, it's pretty obvious to me that the other web site could not get much attention because of all the reamrks on here. Hammer away big man, it's a free country and everyone has their opions, yours just make me and others laugh at times. Also, try not to be so darn critical of EVERY thing and EVERY rule. It's whiners like yourself that turn something fun and enjoyable into something that you have to carry a rule book around to be able to participate. Think of that before you start shooting off at the mouth and we will all be better off and I am sure that you will get hammered less often as well. And in the process of you making a comment on a topic, please at least know what you are talking about or have first hand experience on the subject. Sometimes I think you post and quote other threads and other subjects just to be able to type or put your 2 cents worth in to get your post count up. Slow down Brian, it's all about this being fun and enjoyable for all. All we need is more things to have to worry about because of people such as yourself sitting behind a desk all the time and critiquing the sport. Get out there and spend some of your time enjoying the hunt and quit worrying as much about all the darn topics and threads. Maybe then you will get a little more respect from the others here??? The Cache Couple East TN Quote Link to comment
VA Husker Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I had problems with a moving cache once. I was the second or third of several "no finds" and then several weeks later someone logged a find. The finder's comment was something like : "I found this several weeks ago, but I was not leaving the area for a while". He did not say he took it, but he did not say he didn't. My interpretation is that several of us were out looking for a cache that was no longer there, and the finder chose not to inform anyone that he had moved it or taken it to assure his possession. He ended up moving it a few hundred miles. I would have moved it over 1,000 closer to it's intended goal. It has had eight "no finds" logged and eighteen notes posted as people try to sort it out along its way. I think the real problem is that you have one cache that could have 30 to sixty different people relocating it (Many making their first placement). The odds are pretty good that it will be misplaced (bad coordinates, or riding around is someone's trunk for a couple of weeks.) Regular caches have someone maintaining them. Moving caches don't. I am not saying I disagree with moving caches. But I don't think they are the sure thing that I once thought they were. Granted, I probably had about 10 finds then, and only about 23 now. But I don't think I would go out of my way to check on one. Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 DID ANYONE OTHER THAN ME NOTICE MR ULMER PAID A VISIT TODAY??? Quote Link to comment
+Divine Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by canadazuuk:DID ANYONE OTHER THAN ME NOTICE MR ULMER PAID A VISIT TODAY??? What, is he a moving cache? - I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. - Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hey, guidelines for moving caches would be a good thing, with monitoring by local members... I have NEVER been in favor of caches that move over anything more than a 50-100 mile radius. I think some effort on the part of those in favour of moving caches (like myself, and I do happen to own one too...) might make the difference if the site would consider them again They could alleviate some saturation issues, and allow new caches an opportunity to hide a cache, fully expecting feedback from others, and this would be a good thing... Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 no serious, he did visit the site today the inventor of geocaching himself... it's on the memorial thread Quote Link to comment
+Stunod Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by canadazuuk:DID ANYONE OTHER THAN ME NOTICE MR ULMER PAID A VISIT TODAY??? Kinda scary that you keep an eye on this... EDIT: So you read his post, you weren't stalking him. http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.aspx?A=297 "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson Quote Link to comment
+seneca Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I don’t think the ban on moving caches has anything to do with any “problem”, nor does it have to. I think it has more to do with TPTB wanting to have a tighter, more predictable (and controllable) conceptual framework (boundary) for the game of Geocaching. When I first started Geocaching, almost anything went - including any type of locationless and virtual caches. People (as creative people naturally do) were coming up with really novel ideas getting further and further away from the original concept of Geocaching. Some of these ideas were great (and some not so great). Moving caches were among one of the more creative ideas (and I like them). I also really liked, Markwell’s “Photographer’s” caches. However, at that time, I also got the sense that the game had no boundaries, and that the well designed (and flexible) Geocaching.com site, would sooner or later resemble something totally unlike the original concept of Geocaching, particularly in view of the rapid growth it was experiencing. I believe (and I may be wrong) that the elimination of some of the novel cache concepts, including “moving caches” was by design, with the intention of keeping the game within boundaries developed by Jeremy and his crew (and there’s nothing wrong with that - its his site - and overall, I really like the way he has controlled its development - if I didn’t I would go elsewhere). I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 that is a lot of brackets seneca, and extremely well written and thought out... Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Stunod: Kinda scary that you keep an eye on this... The six caches that remain attached to his userid (ironically) are now called MOVED, which means I must be on topic (although on another planetary orbit), and what I meant by saying he was way cool, was that it must be way cool in the Arctic Ocean where his caches were moved... Quote Link to comment
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