claypigeon58 Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 In the last month I've placed 2 new caches, difficulty 4 and 5. These are meant to be challenges by design. One is on a river island. I had someone ask me how I got to the island, supposedly so he could duplicate my path. Um...that's the challenge, hence the 5 star. Same person has now asked me for a hint after coming up empty on the first leg of the second cache (multi), after searching all of 15 minutes for it. I'm getting a little irritated at being asked to basically give away the solutions to these caches, since the idea is for them to be challenging. Any ideas, shared experiences would be appreciated. I don't want to be a jerk about the thing, but if everyone gave up before trying, or spending just 15 minutes, the sport wouldn't be much fun. Quote Link to comment
Eeyore and Shadow Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 simple, "hint: look at he dificulty level" Maybe these people shoud'nt be searching for such dificult caches. Eeyore I'm one sat short of triangulation. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I agree with Eeyore, on the difficult caches. Giving hints to one guy would cheapen the experience. On about 1/3 of my caches, NO extra hints. On the other hand, for easy caches, if someone is having difficulty, I will write back with some suggestions (NOT dead giveaways) and wish them good luck. Especially if they are new to geocaching, because I want new people getting involved, not getting discouraged. Through e-mail correspondence that started by giving hints or answering questions about my easy caches, I've made several geo-friends! x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips Quote Link to comment
Abandoned Outpost Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I've never done a cache before, but I believe it would be sensible to give suggestions if someone is having difficulties with an easy cache ( like the above post states ) Hard caches are meant to be a challenge! That's what fun about it, if it's hard you find it, you get a feeling of accomplishement. If someone gives you the exact directions, what's the point? Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I agree. No hints on finding the cache. However, if the cache is surrounded by private property, but there is a public property place to start, and the cache page says to avoid private property, the cache owner might consider revealing the public property access point to those who ask. I this case, the question is not how to find a cache. It is something I almost had to do once, as there were no signes posted as to which were private and public property. DustyJacket Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I've asked for additional hints when I couldn't find the cache and have also given extra hints when asked on my own caches. If hints should not be given as it "spoils" the hunt, then why are there hints on the cache page. While it's true they're encrypted, there's no difference in a point count for a find whether or not you used the hint. Also, and one thing I've always been confused about, does the difficulty rating include the encrypted hint or not? So if hints are and are not being used from the cache page, what's the big deal if someone asks for an additional hint? I always use the encrypted hints for two reasons. The first is I find the trips and exploring new places are what's fun not sticking my hand in every hole in a thirty foot radius. Secondly, I can't stand ticks and the quicker I can get out of the brush the better I like it. Tromping around for 45 minutes guarentees you'll pick up ticks where I live. Alan Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I've given hints when someone who has made several attempts asks me. But on the first try, nah. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Alan2, very good observations! I guess for me, the difference between hints on the cache page and hints given out in response to e-mails is that the cache page hints are available to EVERYBODY, and I think carefully about what I include as unencrypted and encrypted hints. An easy cache may get parking and trailhead directions in the general description, and then a dead giveaway in the encrypted section. My last four caches placed were all 3 or above on terrain and/or difficulty, and have no encrypted hints at all, and just trailhead information in the description. Whatever information I give, is factored into my judgment of the difficulty rating. In contrast, when I respond to an e-mail, I give that cacher an advantage over all other finders. For him, it's no longer a difficulty 3.5 find, since he knows to look up in the pine tree instead of looking on the ground. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips Quote Link to comment
+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Our philosophy: It's just a game and meant to be enjoyed. If someone asks me for a hint after searching for it without success, I'll give them an indirect but useful hint. It is still a challenge for them, but not a frustration anymore. I want them to associate our caches with "fun" so they'll do ours in the future. Again, it's just a game. A very difficult cache we found has since added several hints to it. We don't feel cheated because the difficulty has been eased. I feel a sense of pride that I was were able to find it without the hints. (Tsegi Mike was working when I found it). This is just our opinion, yours may differ. That's what makes our country great. *************** That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure, For often at noon, when I returned from the field, I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure. Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket Quote Link to comment
+smithdw Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I haven't asked for hints very much. On one cache a section of rotting tree fell over the bark that the cache was under so I asked another cacher in the area that had already found it for a hint. On another cache, the cache owner sent me an email with a hint after I posted a not found log. I guess it's up to you to ask for a hint. I will usually respond with the hint if someone asks for one, others will not give you any hints at all. I know what it's like to go out looking for a cache several times before I find it and it can be a little frustrating, but being able to find almost all the caches without any hints at all (even the decrypted ones) is rewarding. Also if you find many caches from the same cache owner, you get to know the types of places that they usually hide things. Some almost always hide in dead trees or logs, some in rocks, some in/under bushes, etc. Quote Link to comment
claypigeon58 Posted May 3, 2003 Author Share Posted May 3, 2003 As an update, I went to the cache location today, and the cache, which is in plain view, is 20 ft from where the person wanting the hint was standing. Man, if I could get within 20 feet every time under tree cover, I'd be happy. Let's have some effort out there people!!! Quote Link to comment
+evergreenhiker! Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I will always give someone a hint even on my hard ones if they ask. This is meant to be a fun sport. It's just a game. I will not give it away though...I'll start with a nudge like hint adn go from there if the user continues to have a problem. Quote Link to comment
+Siberian Cacher Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I had to ask for a hint on a chache (a micro) that was in a pretty easy spot. Even after the hint, I didn't find it. Turned out that the micro container was a "fake rock" which I had never seen. The "hint" that was given back to me was still a general hint. Therefore, I don't see what the big deal is of giving someone a hint. You don't have to give hints in locations coordinates - give them a bigger chunk of the bone to chew. The hint given to me was "the cache is located to the east of the park bench" or something to that effect. One nice point was that I was able to see that I was, at least, in the general area. After 5 failed attempts, that was nice to know... With man, it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible! Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Good grief people, its a GAME for crying out loud...!!!! No one is going to die if they don't get a hint, and you know what, no one will if you give a little extra hint either.... Is there nothing else in life to be upset over than someone asking for a hint????? Man, am I in a mood tonight or WHAT????? "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Personally if someone asks for a hint after a no-find then I will give it to them. Maybe not the exact leaf it is hidden under but enough to help them locate it once in the area. Now I will not give a hint until they have attempted to find it and they ask for a hint. I have been stumped on some easy ones and walked right up to some really difficult ones. Quote Link to comment
martmann Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I just hid my first cache, and I doubt anybody will ask for hints, it's easy. If they did ask, I would have to see a not found log before I gave one. No big deal, I just think it's cheesy to not find a cache then not log a 'couldn't find it', just because you planned on coming back and finding the cache another day. I've seen a good bit of that. I have no plans to ask for hints additional hints, I think that's cheesy too. If other people can find it with just the cache description page, I should be able to also. If I can't, it's a 'couldn't find it' log. That's how I play it, others want more hints, if they have more fun with more hints, great. _________________________________________________________ If trees could scream, would we still cut them down? Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason. Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest) [This message was edited by martmann on May 04, 2003 at 04:44 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Generally, I think the point is for people to find my caches. Even if I make it somewhat difficult, I still like for people to post "found its". quote:a lso, and one thing I've always been confused about, does the difficulty rating include the encrypted hint or not? I've always not included the hint in my cache ratings. My hints would make every one of them a 1 or 1.5 difficulty. In my opinion, the hint should be a dead giveaway, only to be decrypted when the searcher has given up. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Yikes, I actually agree with BrianSnat twice on the same thread: quote: I've given hints when someone who has made several attempts asks me. But on the first try, nah quote: posted May 04, 2003 05:10 AM Generally, I think the point is for people to find my caches. Even if I make it somewhat difficult, I still like for people to post "found its". It is just a game/sport (spame/gort?) and is self policing like golf. If someone want's a true spoiler after trying for only 15 minutes then that is how they are going through life, sad as it is. I wouldn't give him all the help he wants the first time, but maybe move him one step closer and suggest he try a little harder. The first time I emailed a hider for a hint he replied: "I suggest you refine your technique" All that did was piss me off; but it did make me look harder the next three times I went back there until I found the d@#n thing. But I may have a little more bulldog in me than most. Must be that Jersey upbringing. These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes; Nothing remains quite the same. Through all of the islands and all of the highlands, If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane Quote Link to comment
wanda texas Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I LOVE THE EXTRA HINTS!!!!!....i dont have a gps yet...i dont even have a computer ..... where i live there are tons of geocaches...only 1 letterbox and its downtown..... i try to hunt it with the encrypted hints first....then i ask...or plead with the hider for more... one gave me hints to find a level 3...seemed it should have taken me right to it..but nnnnoooooo..i spent two hours rooting around in the weeds and thorns before i gave up for the day (second day there)...will try for it in winter when the weeds/coverings will be gone...and theres another one i tried for with extra hints...im pretty sure i found where its at but hard to get to thru the thorns...tried 3 separate days...will wait till colder weather as the weeds/covering will be less and i dont die from heat stroke when i put on my armor for the thorns and less slithering friends..... i found one with the hint of where the "entrance" was to start...been to this park before and had no idea the "entrance" was there...i had tried to drive around to the back of the park since i could see where the area was from the encrypted hints but the roads where chained off...so i asked how to get to the "entrance"....it took me 5 tries to uncover the treasure..tons of possible matches to the hints once inside...but i found it.... i went to vegas last month and asked for hints for one on the strip....he gave me great hints, but unforntely i didnt find it...just didnt see it...but i have the hints for the next trip out..now all i got to find is someone who is getting married out there again and wants to take me to drive... i also found one in another town with just the encrpted hints and found it right away....took the kids back and gave them the instructions and had them find it....we took nothing/left nothing since it was a "theme" box and had nothing to match the theme...they had fun.....and i see some more have been posted in their area so i will try for those with the encrypte hints then ask for more if i need them.... this is fun...gets you outside....can take kids (some) and takes you to see new places..... i also look for letterboxes...i have planted my first one this week... please give extra hints.....i do spend time looking....and very much appreciate them but i dont mean exact place.i.e. take 12 steps forward..left 7 steps..right 22 steps..looks down and you are standing on it.....the fun is in the hunt....the hints says "in the bush next to the oak tree"-----get me to the area where its at....now i see there are 7 oak trees with a bush next to each one in this particular area, no other trees around....now the fun begins..... wanda [This message was edited by wanda texas on May 04, 2003 at 11:54 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by wanda texas:I LOVE THE EXTRA HINTS!!!!!....i dont have a gps yet...i dont even have a computer ..... ] You should pick up a good used GPS, if you look around you can find good beginners GPS's for $50 to $75. You may spend that much just on the many return trips to try again. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 i nudge people in the right direction for a living, so i'm willing to give hints. -if the finder is working on it. you have to have been there, come up stumped, and be willing to make postulations. rather than have you tear up an entire field, i will be happy to tell you if you're barking at the right kettle of fish. if you're looking in the wrong place, i'll tell you to consider other options. i won't tell you what options to consider. it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six. Quote Link to comment
+DeerChaser & Company Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I give extra hints when asked. I see nothing wrong with it. As stated above "it's only a game". Don't you want your caches found? I do. I have some hard ones out there, they get a lot of DNF. If they email me wanting more hints I give it to them and wish them luck in finding it. No need to piss people off or to be a jerk. Whats the point if no one can find it? Rino 110 MeriGreen 128 Quote Link to comment
+Markwell Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:I've given hints when someone who has made several attempts asks me. But on the first try, nah. Once again, I find myself in total agreement with Brian. Go figure. Markwell Chicago Geocaching Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by DeerChaser & Poni: No need to piss people off or to be a jerk. Whats the point if no one can find it? It is easy to hide a cache where nobody can find it but what is the point? I want my caches to be found, not but noncachers but by people actually looking for it. None of my caches have been found by a non cacher yet and only a few cachers has had very much trouble with any of them. I do hide them in fairly obvious spots (to a geocacher anyway) and I make sure the coordinates are very close. But if anyone asks for a hint after trying it I will freely give them hints. I want the caches to be found, thet is why I hid them. Quote Link to comment
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