+protocoldroid Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 I'm not going to name the names of these other sites, only because I'm not sure if it would be kosher to. And I recommend, if you reply, to be quiet too, unless you are positive it's ok. IMHO, it seems theses clones are not nearly to the caliber of geocaching.com, they aren't are graphically pleasing, interfaces aren't as intuitive, and the content seems to be less than that of geocaching.com, BUT! ....there are a lot of "repeat" caches. On some of these sites I've seen a lot of caches in my area that are on geocaching.com. Do you think that people who participate on geocaching.com are participating in these other "cache communities" and list their caches? Or do you think that these sites have some method for mining the data from geocaching to populate their sites? Just curious, curious to see what other people think of these "geoclones". peace! -doug _______________________________ n00b ge0c4c|-|3R Quote Link to comment
+Huntnlady Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Name names. Give links. I havent seen what you're talking about. Deer laugh when they hear my name! http://www.geocities.com/ihunts Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 You're likely to find several players here who also play on the other site. For some it's a matter of preference, others it's convenience. Some just like a little variety. I know of a few cachers who cross-post their caches on both sites. One explained to me that he did that because if one site ever went down and all the data was lost he had his caches backed up on the other site. Made sense to him . . I just haven't seen the need. Bret "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44 Quote Link to comment
+junglehair Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Being in NY, I know the "geoclone" site that you are likely referring to. My understanding of it is, the other site was founded due to some personal differences on the way the geocaching site was being run. When I set up a new cache, I try to remember to post it there as well. I agree with you that the other site is difficult to navigate, therefore I always use the geocaching site. -Junglehair There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 There are a lot of people who post their caches on both sites to increase traffic at their caches. You're right, none of the other sites compare to this one. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln [This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 20, 2003 at 07:11 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 I've seen the other sites. Geocaching.com is the best but it doesn't have a lock on the market. There will most likely be a rift in what geocaching.com thinks a cache is that is exploited by another site and that site will start to grow. geodashing is an example. A valid GPS event but not really suited for this website. ===================== Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
Cracker. Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Also being from NY, that othersite is more of a "grassroots" site for some of us. It is a little harder to navigate, and not as "flashy" as this site with all the extra bells & whistles, but it is a nice relief from the commercialism and sometimes insanity of the forums here. For me, that site has almost as many caches as are listed here, and quite a few that arent. It's a VERY friendly placeto geocache from... Art www.yankeetoys.org www.BudBuilt.com http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/ Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 I post on both sites. To me, it's like advertising in both the Yellow Pages (this site) and in the weekly advertising circular that most people throw away; it seems futile but it still might get the word to one or two new people. And, frankly, competition is a good thing. Also, some things are allowed on the other site that are not allowed here any longer, e.g. travelling caches. As for their interface, I actually prefer the other site's cache entry form. Actually, the sparcer look as a whole appeals to me. I'm the sort who sees geocaching and Geocaching.com as separate. Geocaching.com just happens to be far and away the best tool a geocacher has at his disposal. "Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow" -- Richard Shindell, Spring Quote Link to comment
+Gimpy Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by protocoldroid:I'm not going to name the names of these other sites, only because I'm not sure if it would be kosher to. And I recommend, if you reply, to be quiet too, unless you are positive it's ok. IMHO, it seems theses clones are not nearly to the caliber of geocaching.com, they aren't are graphically pleasing, interfaces aren't as intuitive, and the content seems to be less than that of geocaching.com, BUT! ....there are a lot of "repeat" caches. On some of these sites I've seen a lot of caches in my area that are on geocaching.com. Do you think that people who participate on geocaching.com are participating in these other "cache communities" and list their caches? Or do you think that these sites have some method for mining the data from geocaching to populate their sites? Just curious, curious to see what other people think of these "geoclones". peace! -doug _______________________________ n00b ge0c4c|-|3R Who Cares?? I can't get the same variety of merchandise at J C Penney as I can at Sears. Doesn't mean I won't go to Penneys. Won't slam them either. Some folks, myself included, enjoy the local flavor at the other site. If I were from another state, I probably wouldn't spend much time there. There's other caching sites as well, but I'd have nothing to gain by cutting them down because they don't have the features we have at GC.com. I respect them for spending the money & time to do what they wish to promote the caching community. The term "Cheap GeoCaching Rip-Off sites", leads me to believe that you have no clue what you're talking about. Don't like it, don't go there. "Gimpy" --KC2KNI-- Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Cracker7M:but it is a nice relief from the commercialism I don't grok this statement. Professionalism, yes, commercialism no (in my opinion). --Marky "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr" Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Gotta go with Gimpy. Who cares? I use goecaching.com exclusivley, what do I care what someone else does? Admittedly I do look at that other(shush don't mention the "N" word!!!!) site from time to time. They just don't have *any* caches in my area, so nothing there for me. "No Matter where you go there you are." - Bucaroo Bonzai Quote Link to comment
MTU_Cache_Spot Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 I've heard that the "main" competitor (if they can even be called that) has a large following in Upstate Newyork and in Canada as well, but caches are tough to come by in Michigan on that site, so I rarely bother to visit. On the MiGO forums, I jokingly suggested one time that the other sites may "mine" data from this site (especially with the access that being a charter member allows to cache info). The response by a die-hard "other-site" follower was venemous, bordering on nasty. He/She vehemently denied that the other sites would ever stoop to that level.....which is probably the case....but that also means that they'll likely never have the number of caches or visitors as this site. I agree that competition is a good thing (for the end consumer of course), but a responible monopoly can be much more efficient and convenient.....the key word there being responsible, which seems to fit this site very well if you look at the latest Webby standings Quote Link to comment
+protocoldroid Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'm actually really glad to see how many people are open to using the other 'geoclones'. On the 'commercial' score... From my short time geocaching (been lurking here for about a week and a half, went after 3 caches, found only one... virtual ), I'm actually really impressed with how tastefully commercial geocaching.com is. The 'premium user online community' website business model works well (see deviantart.com and livejournal.com), both in keeping the site alive, and keeping the userbase happy. Also, being a long-time participant in many web forums and usenet, I'm also impressed how at very very polite, intellegent and level headed geocachers are both in the forums and their cache descriptions and comments. I really like the idea of the MiGO (as mentioned by MUT_Cache_Spotter and Dinoprophet), the -localized- geocaching site. Even though it seems people are able to get really local on geocaching.com, I think a more 'intimate' community for your area would be really fun. Anyways... in response to Gimpy: quote:I respect them for spending he money & time to do what they wish to promote the caching community. The term "Cheap GeoCaching Rip-Off sites", leads me to believe that you have no clue what you're talking about. Don't like it, don't go there. Anyways.... I didn't mean to slam those sites. I agree the term "those cheap geocaching ripoff sites" does sound harsh. I can respect the fact that people put time and money into creating the software, but, What I wouldn't respect is those people effectively stealing the novel idea of geocaching and profiting off it. And yes... Although super wal-mart has more selection, there's a regular ole big k next door, and I'll go to both I hear what you're saying. No bad blood intended Gimpy. And now that I hear people are so into the geoclones, I feel bad for calling them cheap. The two I was talking about (i'll give names and not urls, how 'bout that?), Navicache and Buxleys Geocaching Waypoint, seemed to be national ideas, and i'm not sure if either are for-profit, but, they both seemed to be of a somewhat lesser quality compared to geocaching.com. Now that I've seen a site like MiGO (well designed, usable, good content), I can see how someone would make a quality site which could compliment geocaching.com. Quote Link to comment
+protocoldroid Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'm actually really glad to hear how open people are to these 'clones'. I also like the idea of a site such as MiGO, I can most definately see how a more 'intimate' community would be fun for interacting with people nearby. On the subject of how commercial these sites, are... I'm actually really impressed with how 'tastefully' commercial geocaching.com is, the 'premium user' website model seems to work well, seems to keep the site going and keep the userbase happy (see deviantart.com and livejournal.com, two sites who use a similar model). Moreso, after my relatively short time as a geocacher (been lurking for about a week and a half), I'm really impressed with how informative, and level headed people are on the geocaching forums and the descriptions/comments on caches. After years of participating on many web forums and usenet, It's refreshing to see such a large community get along so well. In regards to gimpy's comment... I didn't mean for any bad blood, and, after these replies where people are so accepting of these clones, I feel bad for calling them cheap rip offs. Definately was a little to harsh. And in reply to this: quote: The term "Cheap GeoCaching Rip-Off sites", leads me to believe that you have no clue what you're talking about. Don't like it, don't go there. Well, compared to you Gimpy. I don't have a clue, I've incedentally run into your name "gimpy" just by googling for 'geocaching new york' before this. You've participated for a long time, and are a hero to some geocachers. I'm not going to admit to being a guru after hanging out here for only a week. Anyways, I apologize for the harsh terms. I was really just curious if people really participated in them, or if these sites were blatently trying to rip off geocaching. It's the only reason I care. Quote Link to comment
Broncoholics Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 quote: I was really just curious if people really participated in them, or if these sites were blatently trying to rip off geocaching. It's the only reason I care. Hmmmm I never had to pay for anything at N*vicache, including a GPS and a few T-shirts. True Story Duane Upinyachit Our feet go where the caches are! Quote Link to comment
+trippy1976 Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I used to cross post. The the other site had a critical failure of some kind and all my cross postings and logs were lost. That was kind of the last nail in the coffin for me in relation to using other sites. I was just doing it to have a backup anyway. Well... it was clearly demonstrated that my logic was flawed -------- trippy1976 - Team KKF2A Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time. Quote Link to comment
PC Medic Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 quote:I can respect the fact that people put time and money into creating the software, but, What I wouldn't respect is those people effectively stealing the novel idea of geocaching and profiting off it. quote: Interesting concept considering it is posted on a commercial site. The two I was talking about (i'll give names and not urls, how 'bout that?), Navicache and Buxleys Geocaching Waypoint, seemed to be national ideas, and i'm not sure if either are for-profit, but, they both seemed to be of a somewhat lesser quality compared to geocaching.com. To answer the question, neither are commercial. Out of pocket and donation only. Lesser quality, Buxley's pioneered the mapping search feature for Geocacing and at one point was the only source for point and click search. NC, not doing bad for a free site that started as a regional discussion board. Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 What the heck happened here? I'm showing this as having been posted today by Trippy. But the last posting date was from April on the thread? Brian www.woodsters.com "TOUGH NUTS" - for those who don't like it... Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by protocoldroid: IMHO, it seems theses clones are not nearly to the caliber of geocaching.com, they aren't are graphically pleasing, interfaces aren't as intuitive, and the content seems to be less than that of geocaching.com, BUT! You are talking about listing services. Really, all that matters is the quality of the content provided by the listing services ... in other words, the quality of the caches listed on the sites. That content is not created by the listing services, but by geocachers like you and me. I think you probably aren't suggesting that the quality of the caches listed at other sites is lower than the quality of the caches listed on this site, because, as you pointed out, many of the caches listed at each service are duplicates. If the caches are the same, but the presentation is slightly different, does that detract from your overall caching experience? Excepting any member-only features available exclusively at any of the listing services, you are really discussing only "eye candy" and the sheer number of caches listed. I am of the opinion that geocaching.com is doing an excellent job encouraging people to explore the other listing services ... and ultimately, geocaching.com will be in large part responsible for the continued growth and success of those other listing services. quote:Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:What the heck happened here? I'm showing this as having been posted today by Trippy. But the last posting date was from April on the thread? Don't know; but it certainly was a timely bump! Quote Link to comment
+Doc-Dean Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 quote:What the heck happened here? I'm showing this as having been posted today by Trippy. But the last posting date was from April on the thread? Its the magnetic storm!! Look out its a G3!!! Its going to get us all!!! ITS THE END OF THE INTERNET!!! oops... sorry my mistake, everything is okay, go back to your regular lives. Thank you. --------------------------------------- Free your mind and the rest will follow Quote Link to comment
+MountainMudbug Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 In the past couple days I've read and re-read comments on these forums to the effect of "go play somewhere else".... I'm now listing my caches there, too. Eventually it will grow, will just take time. Quote Link to comment
+trippy1976 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Don't you know about my sig item? The time machine? Weird. -------- trippy1976 - Team KKF2A Assimilating golf balls - one geocache at a time. Michigan Geocaching Organization Homepage Quote Link to comment
+ScottJ Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 There are only a couple of major competing sites, and they're both far less popular than this one. Hardly worthy of the title "competition", really. I have noticed that a lot of caches are double-posted -- here and on n@v!c@c#e. That makes their existence even more ... redundant. I do think the insecurity and the censorship I see here are a little childish ... I've been in many Exxon stations, and it's not illegal to say the word "Chevron" in any of them. Likewise, it's not illegal to yell "TARGET" in a crowded Wal-Mart. If it were, one would really wonder about how confident those companies were about the quality of their product and the loyalty of their customers. You can say n@v!c@c#e as many times as you want in front of me, and my caches will still get logged HERE, on the "real" site. -- Scott Johnson (ScottJ) Quote Link to comment
+geospotter Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ScottJ:I do think the insecurity and the censorship I see here are a little childish ... I've been in many Exxon stations, and it's not illegal to say the word "Chevron" in any of them. Likewise, it's not illegal to yell "TARGET" in a crowded Wal-Mart. But there is a difference between yelling in a store and posting online. Try going to a Sears website and making a post about J.C. Penneys. It won't last 2 seconds. But, I agree with you. This is the real site. geospotter ---------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment
+Ashandes Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I only know of one other functioning listing service. I have no problem with it's existence but don't really see a need to post caches there. There is a project to get some sort of open source cache network going. I check their message board sometime because the concept interests me. But I think there are some inherent problems in what they are trying to do that will be their downfall. I'd be happy for them to prove me wrong though. There are probably others, but I've never come across any. ________________________ What is caches precious? Quote Link to comment
+Polgara Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Deleted...this post is from April. "The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator." - Louis Pasteur Quote Link to comment
+jollybgood Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Competition (even if its weak) is good. Keeps Jermey and his staff on their toes as they try to stay ahead of he pack and keep bringing us new features. ;D Jolly R. Blackburn http://kenzerco.com "I'd like to buy the world a coke, but I only have fifty cents" Quote Link to comment
+Volvo Man Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I fully intend to cross post all my caches, also, I always check NC & GC before I go out caching. If others don't like the NC site, their loss, more FTFs for me. I have noticed that nearly 75% of the caches listed elsewhere are not listed here! NC does have a free customizable xml search download feature that actually allows you to download every single waypoint in one go, a little excel/S&t/EasyGPS work later, I have a complete set of cache marker on my laptop and waypoints with names to match. I've only found the three mentioned here ie, GC, NC & buxleys, are there any others you could let me know about (email is ok if you're afraid of offending the admins) Every site has it's plus and minus points, it's up to the individual to decide what they like and go with it, or hedge their bets like I do. besides, GC.com didn't invent Geocaching, Dave Ulmer did. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 I cross posted a few of my caches on the other site to see if it would generate any more hits. They each have two finds through that site and both are from geocachers who previously posted finds here and were duplicating their logs there. Since the reason I place caches is for them to be found, I find the other site to be pretty useless for my purposes. quote: I've only found the three mentioned here ie, GC, NC & buxleys, are there any others you could let me know about (email is ok if you're afraid of offending the admins). There also was geocaching worldwide.com, which went the way of the Edsel and 0pencach1ng.com, which was created a few months ago with a great deal of fanfare, but hasn't developed beyond a bunch of people chatting in the forums. I only hope that any competing sites are half as responsible as GC.COM and don't adopt an anything goes policy simply to lure people away from GC.COM. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm [This message was edited by BrianSnat on November 01, 2003 at 04:27 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 I think Buxley and Miller had the most interesting sites that scraped what they could off of gc.com One wonders if permission were granted, would anyone else be able to set up an 'official' or sanctioned stats site? Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: I only hope that any competing sites are half as responsible as GC.COM and don't adopt an anything goes policy simply to lure people away from GC.COM. That one made me laugh. Geocaching.com disclaims "responsibility" for EVERYTHING IMAGINABLE UNDER THE SUN. Quote Link to comment
+Team Og Rof A Klaw Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 quote:Likewise, it's not illegal to yell "TARGET" in a crowded Wal-Mart.Nonetheless, I wouldn't try it. Clones prolly won't make it because of the Ebay/Amazon/Google/Microsoft Computer Biz Hugeness Effect. What might make it is additional geosport sites to support activities that Jeremy and Co. have decided are Not Really Geocaching (tm.) If they do things that we like, we'll go there. ____________________________ - Team Og Rof A Klaw All who wander are not lost. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team Og Rof A Klaw:What might make it is additional geosport sites to support activities that Jeremy and Co. have decided are Not Really Geocaching (tm.) If they do things that we like, we'll go there. I totally agree with that quote. A site that refused to list "drive-and-dumps," "dash-and-grabs" and other "totally lame" types of caches would probably be quite successful, and would probably take a substantial load off of the geocaching.com servers. Or perhaps not ... Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 What I'd like to see is a site that allows caches within a few feet of each other. The more the merrier! And I think it should allow ordinary flagpoles, sneakers tossed in the woods, fence posts and rotting animal carcasses to be virtuals. And the heck with this no caches by RR tracks & tunnels and military bases BS. We should be able to place our caches whever we please. F the private property owners. If they don't want caches on their property, tough nuts. A site like this would get my business in a second. None of the draconian and overly restrictive rules like they have here on GC.COM. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm Quote Link to comment
+Metaphor Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Sic 'em, Brian! "All of us are standing in the mud, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Hey Brian, you sure sound a lot like Boblog. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:What I'd like to see is a site that allows caches within a few feet of each other. Well, judging by some recent cache approvals, the limit on this site has already been reduced to 463 feet, so you're getting your wish. quote:And I think it should allow ordinary flagpoles, sneakers tossed in the woods, fence posts and rotting animal carcasses to be virtuals. Two out of four of those can be found on this site right now. Lucky you! There is no standard for cache containers or guideline requiring cache owners to divulge such information, so anyone who so chooses could very well hide a sandwich bag containing a logbook into a rotting carcass or old sneaker. You see, there IS a reason for you to go out caching! quote:And the heck with this no caches by RR tracks & tunnels and military bases BS. Once again, you're in luck! quote: We should be able to place our caches whever we please. F the private property owners. Yes, that does happen every week on this site, doesn't it? quote:A site like this would get my business in a second. None of the draconian and overly restrictive rules like they have here on GC.COM. You're too much; it's up to geocachers and cache owners to be responsible for their actions. Most play by the rules; some don't. Some try to sneak as much past the approvers as they can. And they are successful a lot of the time. Tough nuts? For whom? Quote Link to comment
opie744 Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 We had no idea that there were other sites, Navi-----, had nothing near us and Bux--Geo--, took us here anyways, why bother. I go the shortest route.( its what gets me in trouble in the woods too. ) it's 5 o'clock somewhere!! Quote Link to comment
+Volvo Man Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 It should be remembered that a monopoly on anything by a single corporation, person or organisation can be a very bad thing. Its always a good thing to ensure that some competition survives, otherwise a monopoly could do whatever it pleases. At this time, GC.com listens to it's members and responds to feedback etc. as ludicrous as some members find it, If enough members (and by this I mean more than half) insisted that all cache containers be painted bright pink and fly a small Geocaching flag, then that would probably be incorporated into the rules somehow. I'm using a ridiculous example, please don't take it out of context (personally, I'd prefer bright orange & the skull and crossbones ). By the same token, if GC.com decided that that was the rule, if enough members insisted that it should not be so, then that too would be taken on board and actioned. Should a total monopoly exist, then nobody has a choice if they want to geocache, they have to go with what GC.com says. That's not so bad with the current rules, but without competition in place, GC would have the option of not listening at all. Hey, who knows, jeremy could wake up one morning and decide that from now on all caches must contain two dead bats and a pound of lard. Please don't anyone take any of my examples too seriously, they are intentionally ridiculous to prevent people from thinking that I am making suggestions for rule changes. I'm also not saying that GC would every do anything quite so insane (or Jeremy for that matter), just putting the value of competition into context. For those of us lucky enough to live in a democracy, this is a fundamental tenet of our system of government, ie that of choice. But if nobody ever votes for the party that is not in power, everybody may as well vote to abandon democracy and put in an autocracy. Its also very dificult to vote with your feet when you have nowhere to go. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 quote:Hey Brian, you sure sound a lot like Boblog. I spell a little better. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm Quote Link to comment
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