I'm sick of cemetary caches - new rule proposed

April 13, 2003

I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose a new geocaching rule of thumb.

Once gain I found a cache in an active cemetary that had an actual container. This one took the cake, because the container was RIGHT ON A GRAVE. The deceased died in 1998, and it was obviously well-tended.

This cache was placed by an extremely well-experienced cacher (at leat by number of caches placed).

It seems to me like regardless of your religious beliefs, one ought to respect these spots, but most especially when the graves are likely to be visited by relatives.

The kicker on this one is that it was a sort of mini-multi-cache, and the first stop would've made a great virtual cache all by itself (which we have suggested to the cache-placer). And what's more, it was a film cannister -- what's the point, since we can log visits on the website anyway?

But of the half dozen graveyard caches we've run across, only one can be said to have been done tastefully and in a way that would definitely not offend any relative, visitor, or caretaker were it to be discovered by non-cachers.

I can't post a 'this cache should be archived' because the only rule it seems to violate is the no-private-property-without-permission rule (graves are usually owned by the estates of the deceased.)

I propose we add a rule that is clearly expressed in the cache-placement guidelines: no physical cache containers on the grounds of cemetaries without explicit permission of the caretakers (which, dare i say it, will likely NEVER be granted.)

I've found the reaction on these boards tends to be rabidly against any restrictions whatsoever, but I again plead with everybody to get some sense of what kind of reaction this is going to get if/when it's discovered by a bereaved relative -- and the consequent possibility caching would get bad press and regulation.

We regulate ourselves or someone else will volunteer to do it.

== Alt Dot Air ==

5.2k · April 13, 2003

I'm sick of whiners - new rule proposed

I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose that all whiners be tarred and feathered.

Well, I'd like to propose something else, but this is a family board, after all.

quote:
Originally posted by AltDotAir:
I propose we add a rule that is clearly expressed in the cache-placement guidelines: no physical cache containers on the grounds of cemetaries without explicit permission of the caretakers (which, dare i say it, will likely NEVER be granted.)

Let me just say you're wrong on this point. I easily obtained 'explicit permission' to place one leg of a multi in a cemetary. The caretakers seemed excited about any new traffic that might come to their quiet corner of the world.

I have searched and found about two dozen caches in cemetaries, and while one of the VIRTUALs was somewhat disturbing in what it represented, I think all of them were respectfully done.

Lil Devil

1.7k · April 13, 2003

Just out of curiosity, what about the cache made you think that it wasn't placed by a family member or other close friend of the deceased, with the permission of the deceased's estate?

April 13, 2003

quote:
I'm sick of cemetary caches - new rule proposed

You know you don't have to look for cemetary caches.

Just remember. Getting there is half the fun...

April 13, 2003

I get really tired of people trying to rule things to death. It seems that no matter what we do somebody wants rules, rules, and more rules.

AltDotAir, if you find that the reaction to tends to be "rabidly" against restrictions, why would you want to propose restrictions? Is it to created a ruckus??

Byron

April 13, 2003

My main goal is twofold:

1. I believe this is ethically wrong behavior.

2. I believe it will bring discredit to geocaching.

But, as I predicted, the ad hominem attacks started well before any serious consideration of the issues.

== Alt Dot Air ==

April 13, 2003

I vote NO! to the new rule.

My wife has even suggested placing one on or near her Fathers grave. I didn't ask her why, but if she mentions it again it'll be done.

I've purposely search a couple of grave yard caches (at night) and had a blast doing so!

It's simple. If it offends YOU, Don't do it.

~ Honest Value Never Fails ~

April 14, 2003

Interesting topic. Personally, many of you are right, you do have a choice whether or not to run the cache hunt, but, this raises a question. Why the f&ck would someone put a cache in an active cemetary? Are you that disprespectful? Wait, don't answer that!

If you put a cache in an active cemetary, you are about a nasty thing! Let me find a cache placed in a cemetary I am familiar with or has some of my family members buried in it. You will pay, do not doubt that!

Use your heads and start thinking! You either have to have some sick fascination with death or really don't have any fu&*ing common sense to know any better.

Go ahead and be the idiot who forces the admins to make further restrictions on this sport.

38.2k · April 14, 2003

I have no problem with cemetery caches, done tastefully, esp. if the cemetery is an historic one. Putting a cache on a grave though, especially of the recently deceased, is a bit over the top.

I don't see a need for a blanket rule regarding cemetery caches. In instances like the one you mention, a log expressing your distaste to the owner should suffice. Enough of them and the owner will hopefully get the picture.

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

April 14, 2003

Well, my first point; the word is cemetery, not cemetary. Secondly, as stated before - don't like 'em, don't do 'em.

That being said, I will agree that many cemetery caches aren't very creative. I could see it if the cemetery had some historical significance. And most would be better if they were virtuals like thisGypsy King

or physicals on the outer limits of the cemetery.

Hey Jamie - a simulpost! You're up mighty early for a college guy!

Visit the Mississippi Geocaching Forum at

http://pub98.ezboard.com/bgeocachingms

April 14, 2003

quote:
Go ahead and be the idiot who forces the admins to make further restrictions on this sport.

Actually this is something the cache approvers have been sensitive to ever since a cache was found stuffed into a crypt with a broken lid. Sometimes it's hard to read between the lines but if we sense that a cache is placed beside a grave we will ask if permission has been obtained. If the description says it's under a tree or implies that it's just outside the cemetery gate I give it the benefit of the doubt.

You are right though, if we don't police our own behavior the police will do it for us. I often wonder if the reason the NPS doesn't allow physical caches is because some early neanderthal geocachers buried them in sensitive areas in National Parks.

erik - geocaching.com admin

1k · April 14, 2003

I think I'm gonna look into having a secret compartment made on my tombstome. Maybe the letter "o" in my engraved name will pull out, revealing the cache. It'll be fun to watch cachers crawling on their hands and knees above me looking for a film canister.

On the road of life there are people in cars and people getting hit by cars.

April 14, 2003

Interesting opinions....

I wonder if the division between Yah and Nay follow peoples level of comfort with cemeteries in general. My family spends a lot of time in them doing genealogy, so we would not have a problem with a tastefully done cache, particularly if there was some connection such as getting a clue from or ending up at a famous/interesting headstone.

You know...In other times cemeteries were kind of like a park. People would take a picnic and spend the day in the cemetery.

------------------------------------------------

The world is a playground. Go outside and play!

------------------------------------------------

3k · April 14, 2003

I've done upwards of a couple of dozen caches in or directly adjacent to cemeteries, and the only one that was cause of even minor concern suffered from bad coordinates ... the coordinates put one squarely in the center of a huge old cemetery while the memorial intended as a virtual cache was actually outside the cemetery gate. This did cause several cachers, myself included, to wander around looking ... but it proved to be a "worthwhile waste of time," because there were several people of historical significance buried nearby.

1 cemetery cache out of over 24 visited that caused mild concern? From my experience, that's significantly better than the "non-cemetery cache" ratio.

April 14, 2003

Even though I think cemeteries are a "monumental" waste of good real estate I wouldn't place a regular cache in a cemetery. It's not that I think they're sacred but I recognize they are sacred to many people. Out of respect for their feelings I wouldn't do it. For some reason people take their dead pretty seriously and don't appreciate activities they deem disrespectful to take place on top of their remains.

That being said, I did place a virtual in a cemetery. ( http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=55017 ) The target marker is one of minor historical curiosity, if not significance, and the cemetery itself is a pretty neat spot -- located on a rural hilltop next to a 19th century country church. It's also a pretty quiet space with few visitors.

3k · April 14, 2003

I've done two cemetery caches so far. One was in Sleepy Hollow, NY and how cool is that to be where Washington Irving is buried? The people in that cemetery have better places to spend their eternity in than some folks still alive! It overlooked the mighty Hudson River and was a very special spot to see. THe other was a hike through the woods on a long trail that came to a field in the middle of nowhere with 5 or 6 tombstones in the field. It was quite a surprise to find this at the end of the hunt. I personally like to visit cemeteries and don't think they should be banned. I wouldn't mind a geocacher visiting my grave because I know they would trash out. I like to tend to graves that look a little unkempt. It might make someone feel good to come visit a lost relative and seee someone cared. I have visited cemeteries in New Orleans that were so interesting they now charge money to go see. And in France they are so well tended that if a family doesn't tend a grave for a certain period of time it is sold to someone else who will. The artwork to be seen in a cemetery is also something I like, as well as the epitaphs.

To wandering travellers who pass,

Pray stop and look into this glass.

A heap of mouldered dust I lie,

As you are now so once was I.

(From a tombstone near the MA/VT border.)

So no, I wouldn't make them off limits. Just send a note to the hider if you don't care for it's placement, or better still - Don't go. That's like ordering fish when you know you hate fish.

Cache you later,

Planet

If it snows one more time I'm gonna scream!

April 14, 2003

I really don't have anything to add but thought someone might be interested in looking at my cemetery virtual cache. It's historical and kinda weird. See it here

5k · April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by pater47:
Hey Jamie - a simulpost! You're up mighty early for a college guy!

Pater, it seems in this day and age, you can't just look at the pretty pictures to see who wrote a message... you have to read the name, too.

Heh... 'twasn't me who was up at some ungodly time in the morn.

Jamie

April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:

quote:
Originally posted by pater47:
Hey Jamie - a simulpost! You're up mighty early for a college guy!

Pater, it seems in this day and age, you can't just look at the pretty pictures to see who wrote a message... you have to read the name, too.

Heh... 'twasn't me who was up at some ungodly time in the morn.

Jamie

Okay, so why are you letting BrianSnat kiss you like that?

Visit the Mississippi Geocaching Forum at

http://pub98.ezboard.com/bgeocachingms

3k · April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by pater47:

Okay, so why are you letting BrianSnat kiss you like that?

I think the better question would be, 'when did brian become that good looking?'

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

3k · April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by AltDotAir:

We regulate ourselves or someone else will volunteer to do it.

Looks like you're volunteering to do it for us. Thanks, we need more regulations in this sport.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

April 14, 2003

New Rule -> No More New Rules!

If you want to ban something, start with virtual caches ;-)

3.1k · April 14, 2003

quote:
We regulate ourselves or someone else will volunteer to do it.

Going to agree with UMC here.

We had just a couple of regulations a couple of years ago. Now the list is getting longer and longer. What is it with people that want a rule for every little thing.

Common sense works just fine and is just as enforceable as some rule about putting a cache container in a cemetery.

Recently I found a microcache on a grave. It was under a rock by the headstone. I suggest that the resident of that grave either didn't mind or was happy to get some company.

Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful

3k · April 14, 2003

Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

I hope you noticed the sarcasm in my post. I was implying that I'm sick of all the rules just becuase one self rightous person doesn't like something.

Geo. Say, 'we like virtuals'. I've said it before that if we continue the way we are the only cache we will be hunting for is a trad and they will be very few and far between because of all of the rules imposed on them.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by AltDotAir:
I propose we add a rule that is clearly expressed in the cache-placement guidelines: no physical cache containers on the grounds of cemetaries without explicit permission of the caretakers (which, dare i say it, will likely NEVER be granted.)

== Alt Dot Air ==

I've found a number of caches in cemetaries, ranging from one hidden in an untended old cemetary site in the woods to a virtual right smack in the middle of a sprawling hyperlandscaped urban cemetary. They're ranged from virtuals at the graves of the famous

through micros all the way to a full size cache hidden on the grounds.

All in all, probably more than half a dozen. And every single one was tastefully done. Some of them were, frankly, quite reverent. And in the case of the full sized cache hidden on the grounds, the caretaker was aware of the cache, had examined it, followed along with me while I found it, and seemed pretty postive, saying that all the geocachers he'd met had behaved appropriately on the grounds, unlike the teenagers who generally trash the place when they go there at night to drink beer and have sex in the bushes. I think his comment was along the lines of "If I could rig the gates to let the geocache people in and the teenagers with beer out, I'd do it!"

So my experience certainly does not match yours. And I'd hesitate to ban geocaches in cemetaries simply because of one, lone cache which is *perhaps* inappropriate.

April 14, 2003

My memory ain't what it used to be but as I remember, when I first started Geocaching in August 2001, cemetery caches were taboo. Need the old forums really bad. Somebody help me out on this.

Mike

5.7k · April 14, 2003

I've enjoyed all the cemetery caches we've done and we even placed one. I think if you are respectful of the environment you are in, there should be no problems.

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

24.7k · April 14, 2003

Really...In 400 caches I've never managed to find a single cemetary cache. Must be specific to your neck of the woods.

Get over it. There are only so many places caches can be hidden. If you see one in a cemetary, don't do the cache. Then I might be able to find my first one, and you don't have to do it at all.

==============================

Wherever you go there you are.

April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
"...I have no problem with cemetery caches, done tastefully, esp. if the cemetery is an historic one. Putting a cache on a grave though, especially of the recently deceased, is a bit over the top..."

I agree entirely. Providing that there are no objections by the grounds-keepers (since these are private properties and should be treated as such), placing a cemetery cache that is sensitive to its surroundings (ie: NOT on a grave ...unless with the approval of the family/estate) should be allowed. If, as a cache hunter, you're personally uncomfortable with the prospect of seeking out a cemetery cache (which is entirely understandable), just look upon it as you would any other cache which would exceed your physical ability to travel to ...and simply don't do it.

April 14, 2003

What about a cache at the grave of a deceased cacher?

Can you think of a better way to honor the memory of that person? And, judging from the sense of humor that most cacher's have, he would probably have enjoyed the irony of it.

Took nothing, left flowers.

www.geocities.com/richardsrunaway

2.6k · April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by AltDotAir:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose a new geocaching rule of thumb.

Once gain I found a cache in an active cemetary that had an actual container. This one took the cake, because the container was RIGHT ON A GRAVE. The deceased died in 1998, and it was obviously well-tended.

As luck may have it, I must have found this cache a couple hours after ADA found it on Sunday. It's an offset cache that starts out at the grave of a Donner Party survivor and then you have to project about 100 ft away to find the micro.

I know the hider and I believe the cache is a grave of a friend or realtive. (I may be wrong) The final grave is bordered with rocks and the cache is just under one of the border rocks.

If cemetary caches are really that offensive to ADA, you just need to skip it. It's not like this one snuck up on you. The first stage was in a cemetary and 100 ft in any direction is still a cemetary. Just walk away.

I remember watching a discovery channel show on famous graves in france. People treated the cemetary as a park. They gathered, read books, played chess, strolled around and chatted with each other.

How is it disrespectful to visit a cemetary and look for a cache? It's not like I'm going to dig up the grave.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

April 14, 2003

Some of our favorite caches have involved Cemeterys. The local cemetery here allows picnics and gives yearly educational walks among the graves. Some of the neatest folks are buried there. We treat cemeterys like they were originally intended, as parks and open lands that should be tended and enjoyed. How better to show respect for those who made our lives possible, but to visit them and read their names, to speak of them and in that way, let their lives be acknowledged.

A well placed cache in a well tended cemetery is just as good as a well placed cache in any memorial park. Next thing we will be hearing is that we shouldn't use memorials or parks with memorials in them as the cache is an affront to the person memorialized. *sigh*

If I wasn't being creamated and spread over my mountain, I'd want the built in cache container in my headstone. And don't think we haven't talked about it, but creamains probably don't make a great travel bug. "Took neat container of coco mix, left McToy.

-Jennifer

April 14, 2003

Any truth to the rumor that they put fences around cemeteries because people are dying to get in? Oh yeah, cemetery caches bore me to death.

I couldn't resist.

I've never been lost, but I was a might bewildered for three days once. Daniel Boone

1.3k · April 14, 2003

Here in New Orleans, we have some fascinating above ground cemetaries. There are tours available for many of them. Many of the tombs are breathtaking works of art.

Necropolis, New Orleans Style"

"Searching with my good eye closed"

April 14, 2003

Quoted from AltDotAir

"It seems to me like regardless of your religious beliefs, one ought to respect these spots"

As a genealogist by hobby (also religious), I find it odd that someone can be so quick to determine that we are not being respectful by visiting such an educational part of our history.

I myself have a cache in a cemetery and nobody has ever complained about it. I have also found caches in cemeteries and found them to be both fun and educational. As much as I like to cache in the woods you can learn so much more from the dead.

As long as you use common sense when placing a cache in these historic places there should be no reason not too.

The following was taken from a couple of books:

Joseph Campbell, The Masks of God: Primitive Mythology

Kenneth Iserson, Death to Dust: What happens to dead bodies?

"The living used churchyards as social centers where they conducted markets, played games, and, in Scotland, prepared for that massive corpse-producing activity known as war by practicing archery or other weapons drills."

LATE 20'S & 30'S.... "creation of large garden cemeteries. The rise of Romanticism gave death a fashionable twist, which coupled with the necessity of protecting the public health to create garden cemeteries. The public loved the new cemeteries and they became a place for weekend walks amidst the monuments. As the need for more open space developed, landscape architects turned to the examples of these three burial sites. Frederick Law Olmstead had many chances to view Green-Wood Cemetery. When his Central Park was opened to the public view, it was an immediate success. Its enthusiastic fans commented about how it was like a cemetery without the monuments.

As parks became more like garden cemeteries, some cemeteries incorporated features of parks. The late nineteen twenties brought the first Forest Lawn Memorial Park. Called a "Disneyland of the Dead", Forest Lawn sought to recapture the multiple uses that cemeteries once enjoyed. With the art galleries, wedding chapels, souvenir stands, movie theaters, and other attractions came also a certain tendency on the part of some members of the funeral industry to promote expensive funerals for all."

As others have said, if you don't like them skip them.

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

4.7k · April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by AltDotAir:

I propose we add a rule that is clearly expressed in the cache-placement guidelines: no physical cache containers on the grounds of cemetaries without explicit permission of the caretakers (which, dare i say it, will likely NEVER be granted.)

== Alt Dot Air ==

ha! i got permission, i got permission.....

the cemetery in question is one that is a tourist destination because of the funerary sculptures. it's a common dog-walking-frisbee-playing location. it has carved stone stairways leading nowhere, and a stump cut into the shape of a chair.

the living mingle with the dead in an easy and respectful fashion, and people playing have enough sense to leave the freshly bereaved alone.

i'm guessing that if you went to the trouble to hire workmen to spend eleven years carving your monument, you darn well want people to come see it.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

April 14, 2003

I also own a cemetery cache and from the name of the cache to the pictures posted on the page, it is quite obvious that it is in a cemetery. The only post that has shown even slight surprize or reservation was from an out of towner that probably just loaded a bunch of waypoints on their GPSr for the areas in which they would be traveling.

I have made it pretty obvious on the cache page because I know some people don't like them. And if you don't like 'em, don't do 'em.

"Could be worse...could be raining"

April 14, 2003

Here's a cache that's placed in a cemetery. Apparently it's been quite well received.

"NO NEW RULES"

April 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by AltDotAir:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose a new geocaching rule of thumb.

Once gain I found a cache in an active cemetary that had an actual container. This one took the cake, because the container was RIGHT ON A GRAVE. The deceased died in 1998, and it was obviously well-tended.

This cache was placed by an extremely well-experienced cacher (at leat by number of caches placed).

It seems to me like regardless of your religious beliefs, one ought to respect these spots, but most especially when the graves are likely to be visited by relatives.

The kicker on this one is that it was a sort of mini-multi-cache, and the first stop would've made a great virtual cache all by itself (which we have suggested to the cache-placer). And what's more, it was a film cannister -- what's the point, since we can log visits on the website anyway?

But of the half dozen graveyard caches we've run across, only one can be said to have been done tastefully and in a way that would definitely not offend any relative, visitor, or caretaker were it to be discovered by non-cachers.

I can't post a 'this cache should be archived' because the only rule it seems to violate is the no-private-property-without-permission rule (graves are usually owned by the estates of the deceased.)

I propose we add a rule that is clearly expressed in the cache-placement guidelines: no physical cache containers on the grounds of cemetaries without explicit permission of the caretakers (which, dare i say it, will likely NEVER be granted.)

I've found the reaction on these boards tends to be rabidly against any restrictions whatsoever, but I again plead with everybody to get some sense of what kind of reaction this is going to get if/when it's discovered by a bereaved relative -- and the consequent possibility caching would get bad press and regulation.

We regulate ourselves or someone else will volunteer to do it.

== Alt Dot Air ==

Surprising even to myself, I have to agree with you to a point. I'm not the kind of person who runs around saying we need a rule. Quite the opposite indeed. However, I find it tacky as hell (excuse the pun) to place a cache in a cemetery and I'm not even religious. I would agree in that placing a cache in a cemetery is rude and not needed. I would agree that most are placed with good intentions. However, the good intentions wear off in time and the original contents are gone and what's left is a bunch of junk. The first and only cemetery cache I visited was done very well and I enjoyed my visit to the cemetery. Nonetheless, despite the owner’s obvious respect in the initial hide, what followed from the cachers to come was a far cry from the respect the cache intended to give. A pile of trash in the place of mourning. Some things are sacred. I think this is one of them.

Now, if you want to go put some crappy Tupperware full of junk on top of YOUR pappy’s grave so I can sit on his headstone and sign the log, go ahead.

But then there's the other side of the coin...I think cemetery caches are rude so therefore I do not hunt them. The simple solution to keep me happy. When it starts to upset others in the non-geocaching world, you can bet your ars it'll stop.

A virtual sounds fine to me.

-Lets play global Thermonuclear war-

April 14, 2003

We have lots of cemetery caches around here and I have enjoyed all of them.

Alt Dot Air, if you don't like cemetery caches, then don't do them. It's your choice.

Don't try to impose new rules on the rest of us.

5.3k · April 15, 2003

Thanks for the post. I just got an idea for a cache lacation in an old cemetary that I have not been to for over 20 years.

3.1k · April 15, 2003

Never mind the arguments against more rules. The fact is, there are many places in the US where picnicking in cemeteries is common practice. Before it became a subdivision recently, there was a very popular sledding hill near me that was only accessible through a cemetery. I can show you articles about Boy Scout Troops camping out in cemeteries. Cemeteries have a long history of being recreational areas. Get permission, be respectful, just like any other place you'd hide or seek a cache.

Of course, if you're superstitious, be sure to hold your breath while you're hunting for it. It is not polite to breathe where others cannot.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

April 15, 2003

A tacky cache is a tacky cache, whether it be in a cemetery or tossed into a ditch next to an interstate, with garbage and used needles all around. Some of the more interesting caches we have done were inside cemeteries. If you don't like them, skip hunting them. If you go to one you find tacky or completely lacking taste, hit that little checkbox that says "this cache should be archived".. if a few people agree with you, then POOF it's gone.

One cache we found, Dead Governors involved us going inside the mausoleum and finding clues to get the coords of a cache that was on the cemetery grounds. The caretakers were aware and had given permission. The guy that was there (caretaker) when we were, was obviously amused to watch us scrambling around. I see nothing wrong with it. Another cemetery cache, Jaekel Cache was a beautiful tribute to the cacher's ancestor, and in a very scenic location.

You just aren't going to like all styles or placements of caches. I've said this a million times and I will say it again. When there is something on television that bugs you, the best thing to do is vote with your remote and turn the channel. If you don't like certain caches, by all means don't hunt them. Just my 2 cents.

April 16, 2003

From my profile;

"When I die I want my casket to be placed as a geocache and posted on geocaching.com. Just toss a log book and pencil in with me before you close the lid."

I enjoy cemetery caches. I just logged Circus History recently where dozens of circus folk killed in a famous train wreck back in 1918 are buried. Standing there and seeing all the graves of clowns, performers and workers had a huge impact. Samething when I logged a cache at James Whitcomb Riley's grave in Indy last summer.

Cemeteries are beautiful places and I like to think the folks who reside there appreciate the company.

I even placed one (tastefully) at the IOOF Puzzle Cache which people seem to enjoy. To find the final cache you have to visit several different graves and dechipher the hidden clues. (learning a little of the individuals buried there as well as some local history).

Several months ago I visited cache in an overgrown cemetery in an Indiana woods where vandals had tipped over the headstones. Of the dozen or so graves in the cemetery at least 8 appeared to be the graves of Civil War veterans.

I can tell you there was certainly no disrpect involved as I stood there in the morning mist and read the names and wondered what sort of lives those men had led.

I agree placing a cache ON a grave is in bad taste. Unless of course, the grave was a loved one of the person who placed the cache.

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

April 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jamethiel:
Some of our favorite caches have involved Cemeterys. The local cemetery here allows picnics and gives yearly educational walks among the graves. Some of the neatest folks are buried there. We treat cemeterys like they were originally intended, as parks and open lands that should be tended and enjoyed. How better to show respect for those who made our lives possible, but to visit them and read their names, to speak of them and in that way, let their lives be acknowledged.

A well placed cache in a well tended cemetery is just as good as a well placed cache in any memorial park. Next thing we will be hearing is that we shouldn't use memorials or parks with memorials in them as the cache is an affront to the person memorialized. *sigh*

If I wasn't being creamated and spread over my mountain, I'd want the built in cache container in my headstone. And don't think we haven't talked about it, but creamains probably don't make a great travel bug. "Took neat container of coco mix, left McToy.

-Jennifer

Crown Point cemetery in Indy gives guided tours to the graves of varioius celebs buried on the grounds. (Benjamin Harrison, John Dillinger, James Whitcomb Riley, etc.) I'm sure some people find this distasteful but what is the purpose of a grave marker if not to be seen and visited?

It's a beautiful place where people love to walk and take in the beauty.

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

6.5k · April 16, 2003

Nah, bad rule. There are good and bad caches in every category. Here are two good cemetery caches. While on vacation we visited this cache in Denver which is full of history. One of the more interesting caches here in Raleigh is the Oakwood Cemetery Cache.

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

April 17, 2003

First off, I'm not sure I want to add comment to this line. Then again, there are some misty areas that need to be cleared, so let me try, in the best of intentions.

There are two main groups opposed here, the one which thinks graveyards are something sacred, and the other one mantaining that these are 'regular grounds', a place like any other place.

Funny, how we regard our dead. Some among us think that, buried down there, are our relatives, friends or acquaintances. There has been even mention of celebrities. When they're all nothing but corpses, the lesser important parts of the people we used to know.

There should be some obvious difference by now, and, although aware of running all the popular risks, I'll try and open this difficult issue for the benefit of undecided.

A corpse is not my friend or a relative. It is not even human any longer. A corpse is a corpse is a corpse. It is only material component of a person that once wore, drove or otherwise used it in our material world. Called also The Valley of Tears.

We have been conditioned to think the way we do, and some of that thinking is wayy wrong. It is because there are people using this conditioning, outrageously to their advantage, that we are thus. And in the same time, we are taught that there is the soul, or spirit, which has left the body at the moment of death... So people mostly know all along that, what has been returned to the soil is what came from it in the first place. Nothing more, nothing less.

That same soul, the essence of the person we knew (or we did not; never mind) has probably been born again, and, who knows, may even happily geocache around in our times present.

Whatever anyone thinks, there are no holy spots. The spot is only a spot. Whatever may be considered as being 'holy', even loosely, can only be the 'active ingredient', a.k.a. Soul, Ghost, Spirit, Vital Force, Unamit... but never something that we know as 'material'.

Sure, there are people who would like every other person to respect their symbols. For those, a symbol representing their deceased lies at some spot in its material form, and that constitutes their place of remembrance, their symbol that activates some special memories. To others, it may not be the same. But what cemeteries actually are is a collection of personal symbols, no more, no less, and there's nothing holy about it in general sense, because a place can not bear characteristics relative to those of a soul. Unless a soul inhabits the place; in which case it has been somehow restrained in its circling. And that's not holy at all - that's something quite different, actually.

Consider ancient tombs. Would you say those shouldn't be considered 'respected places' any longer just because (we think that) all the known relatives also (seem to have) died? Is it all right for, say, the archaeologists to unearth the remnants, measure and take probes and samples, publish photos of 'persons', fill out museums with so-called 'discoveries', get their fame (and money) by unwrapping mummies, and their sci degrees maybe having been achieved by doing what could be tagged as 'grave robbing', in the circle of relatives? Where is respect in that?

Or is there any difference between graves, and one is more 'holy' than the other?

One should get real. Every religion supports the idea of separation of the body and soul at the moment of death, and every religious person should know, and what's more, try and understand that. And the soul, or spirit, it is that what makes a human person; not (only) the body. The most popular proof are the physically identical twins, who are otherwise quite different personalities, sometimes even of diverse characters. The bodily remnants are nothing sacred because every living thing feeds on some kind of a remnant. Fact is that, what we call 'ground' or even funnier, 'terrain', consists of zillion dead bodies, also human bodies, suitably decomposed and mixed with the mineral content. Nothing else.

You can't make one tiniest step on this here planet of ours, without stepping upon countless generations of former living beings, and I hear nobody say that I'm walking on graves.

My point is, there's a measure for everything, and there is a free will. If you're not sure you can hide your cache at the cemetery, and do it with a measure of respect - not for the dead bodies, but for the symbolic value these have for other people - do not do it.

At the same instant, it is your free will that decides, and one of the good ways to exercise your free will is to observe the social rules of your community, regardless of your personal intelligence, belief, sensayuma or origins.

[This message was edited by Oldaro on April 17, 2003 at 03:31 AM.]

April 17, 2003

I'm right with you AltDotAir. Besides, I'm afraid of cemetaries.

April 17, 2003

You miss the point if you don't see the negative impact an unwanted cache in a cemetary could have. Headlines willread "Graves descrecrated by Geeks with GPSr." People are funny about their dead relatives. Virtuals can be ok but physicals are a no no.

She said, "Give up caching, or don't come home." Dang I am gonna miss her!

April 17, 2003

I've visited two cemetary caches, and thoroughly enjoyed both of them. Both were tastefully done, in places with a lot of historic value and were placed in locations that didn't require the cacher to disturb graves or cemetary visitors.

If there are any spirits around the places, they probably have many a snicker at the geeky geocachers earnestly poking through shrubberies.

Especially in big cities, cemetaries are one of the few "open" areas to be had in many neighborhoods. So long as cache hunters respect the grounds and the other visitors, I see nothing wrong with geocaches there.

<3)~

I'm sick of cemetary caches - new rule proposed

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment