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Guest Anton

Taking/Publishing Photos of Someone Else's Cache?

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Guest Anton

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[This message has been edited by Anton (edited 06 May 2001).]

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Guest Quinnow

Ayyyyy-men brother!

I agree with you completely. I feel that if someone would like to take pictures and add them to a website that they should ASK the owner of that cache first. You placed the cache and you also decided how tough you wanted to make the adventure, it is not up to someone else to show pictures of your cache and cache area so that other people can get clues from them. If they want to take pictures of a cache they placed and post them that is fine in my book. But If I want someone to know a clue on my own cache I will give it myself and don't want others to do it for me.

But if someone was to ask me if it was OK to add pix on a site, I would just tell them to add a warning that they are about to look at a cache clue that could give away the location. Another problem with this is that I have seen pictures posted on a site that after seeing you wouldn't even need a GPS to find it, thus anyone that just happens to stumble on the site could walk out and take the cache. I take tons of pictures of every cache I find, then I e-mail the owner and send them to him/her to see. If they let me I will add them to my site, but would never add ones that would even come close to showing the cache area itself.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest JIntorcio

hike with my kids and we do some cache hunting and we find a stash... I'm going to take some pix and post them on on my website. If you choose to look at them - great! If you choose not to, that's OK too. You still get the choice.

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Guest Quinnow

JIntorcio,

 

No, you really wouldn't still have a choice.

For Instance...he made his choice by not adding any pictures to the cache page, reason? because he wants it to be harder to find for people. Now when you take those pictures and post them on a site you have just taken his choice to make it a dificult cache to find and made it easy for whoever wants to stop in and take a look at your pictures. Even though people have the right to look or not to look, you take his rights to his own cache and the way he wants it to be hunted for, and throw them right out the window. So even if cachers are having a tough time finding it and just cant do it without help, if he wants it to be that way then it should be. This way when people log in and say I found it, you know that they really used some skill and not just a few pictures on a site. I have maybe three caches that I have placed that I would not care at all if pictures were taken (though I would hope I was asked first) but the others I have placed I would be upset If I saw them on a site, almost to the point where it wouldn't be worth me placing anymore.

I respect your opinion though, and I realize that your reply helps see two sides of the coin and Thank You for your honest comments.

But I still think the right thing to do would be to e-mail the cache owner before this was done and ask what he thought about the idea. After all...it was that person who took the time to place it in the first place.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest cache_ninja

if you hide a cache and dont want people taking pictures of it and posting them, put it in your cache description. i would be pretty a*s of them to still do it after you've explicitly asked people not to. also, we can all edit our own cache listings now, so you can add this text to existing caches you've placed..seems like this would be the most simple short term solution...

 

c/n

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Guest Silver

My take on it is YES, you can take pictures of your search for the cache. YES, you can take pictures of your family, your dog, the general area as you search. But, I don't think you should take pictures and post them if they show the exact location of the cache.

 

We have a cache here near Seattle that just posted the first roll of film from the cache cam. After looking at the pictures, I can tell you EXACTLY where the cache is placed without ever visiting it. It REALLY took away the fun of searching for that cache, to the point where I don't know if I will even try. The mystery is gone.

 

Silver

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Guest Dan Bollinger

A cache is a gift from one person to all of us. Do you have a right to spoil a gift? Probably. Is it a requirement that you spoil it? Definitely not. What are you being when you spoil another person's gift?

 

Say it with me: S-M-U-C-K

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Guest Quinnow

I would have spelled it too, but you didn't have all the letters that I was thinking! icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

I would have spelled it too, but you didn't have all the letters that I was thinking! icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest lee p

Silver writes:

 

"We have a cache here near Seattle that just posted the first roll of film from the cache cam. After looking at the pictures, I can tell you EXACTLY where the cache is placed without ever visiting it. It REALLY took away the fun of searching for that cache, to the point where I don't know if I will even try. The mystery is gone."

 

Out of curiosity, which cache is that?

 

I think some of you are going overboard here. If I go seek a cache, I feel I have a certain right to document my adventure. For example, I may make a page on my own site talking about finding the cache and providing specific information. If someone else was curious, they could read my page. This is far different than giving away info on a cache entry.

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Guest Ron Streeter

I can somewhat see the point of the early posters on this thread, but I also agree with Lee P.

 

IF a cache hunter wanted to go to someone's web page for some more discussion or looking at pics, they certainly COULD do so, but I think MOST won't go the whole route.

 

After all, IMHO, most cachers DO want a pretty good challenge.

 

If you don't want to take the chance that you'll be EXPOSED to too much help, JUST DON'T GO TO THE PAGE ! And as far as righteous indignation that someone would PRESUME to sully a cache by taking and publishing pictures of it, I think relaxing a bit is in order. It is not done with the idea that the publisher is going to RUIN anyone's cache by being too revealing.

 

I think Lee is right...too much being made of this, and this subject was beaten to death by some of the above posters the first time it came up a few weeks ago.(IMHO)

 

Just as it might be inappropriate to "give away the end of the movie" it is inappropriate to "beat a dead horse" let alone to resurrect it.

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Guest lee p

exact location! How dare they!"

 

:) "Cool, my cache may be less of a secret now, but hopefully this segment will get more people interested in geocaching in general!"

 

c) "Hey, we're out of beer"

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Guest Silver

Lee P,

 

Your kind of argument is called a "forced conclusion." How about amending the choices to:

 

a) "dadgum them! They are giving away the exact location! How dare they!"

 

:) "Cool, my cache may be less of a secret now, but hopefully this segment will get more people interested in geocaching in general!"

 

c) "Rats! The segment got more people interested in geocaching in general, but because of the broadcast and links to explict photos of the cache locations, 15 caches have been raided in the last week."

 

In the Seattle area, I'm guessing I could find at least 7 caches by the posted comments and photo links alone. I think it all boils down to "Don't show enough details to find the cache without a GPS unit." Hints might be OK for those that want them, but not a neon sign to the cache.

 

Silver

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Guest Anton

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[This message has been edited by Anton (edited 06 May 2001).]

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Guest Quinnow

If this were such a "dead horse" people would not still be concerned about caches and the pictures of. and if you feel this topic is a dead horse you should not have responded to it and left it to those that have the concerns. I for one am concerned but I live with it and life goes on.

There are many more threads on this forum you might want to visit and respond to that just might not be that dead horse...after all, why waste your time with this one?

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Markwell

I'm posting this in two threads because it applies to both conversations. I have two points:

 

1) What about incorrect coordinates?

 

The first cache hunt I ever went on was rated 1/1 and specifically called itself a cache geared toward kids. I went to the coordinates and searched diligently with my 5 year old for 2 hours, and finally gave up.

 

After reviewing the earlier logs, I found that one of the early seekers said that the coordinates seemed off, and he published corrected coordinates in his post. Using the corrected coordinates, my son, a nephew and myself went pretty much right to the site, having taken a different path - and the cache was a good 150 feet from where we were looking before.

 

2) What about insurmountable obstacles not mentioned in the descriptions?

 

For example, a hypothetical hider may intentionally leave out the fact that his hypothetical cache is only accessable by wearing hip waders and going out to an island the middle of a river. He may also think that this is an easy cache and that the terrain is not difficult. If the hider didn't tell me about hte hip waders, I'd be kinda ticked off if I had driven an hour to get there only to find I couldn't reach the goal. In this example, I would have appreciated another seeker leaving the information to either bring a swimsuit or hip waders.

 

I agree that while I don't want a 3.5 difficulty level cache to have links to a webpage that lays out a hand-drawn map complete with pictures of instersections of the trails; nor do I want someone to tie a red flag to a tree within 10 feet of any cache. However, I also believe that we can't deal in absolutes.

 

BTW - I also see both sides of the argument - I agree that no one forces hiders to look at the logs or follow the posts to make it easier for themselves; but I also agree that if a hider intentionally makes a cache difficult, it is not a seeker's right to make it easier for others.

 

Remember: Absolutely NOTHING is absolute.

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 30 April 2001).]

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Guest Scout

The system is great just the way it is.

 

People who want to experience the cache just the way the hider planned it, can do so by exercising some self-restraint and not reading the log or following links to finders' Web sites.

 

People who want to make sure they don't waste their time and don't care if the hunt is "spoiled", can read the logs and view the pictures and exchange email if they like.

 

Hiders who really hate hunters who "spoil" the cache by posting too much, can edit their own cache pages and delete the offending posts.

 

And people who just like to complain can post on this message board. Something for everyone. What a wonderful world!

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Guest Ron Streeter

Scout's post of April 30 summarizes it nicely. I especially like his points #3 and #4.

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Guest Quinnow

Ron,

 

I see for someone who thinks this thread is doing nothing more than "beating a dead horse" you yourself have found it interesting enough to return and comment on it more than once.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

er fellow, I understand his concerns and some are shared by me.

It would be nice to see a thread continue from start to end but sticking to the topic instead of adding little comments on the side.

But I do agree with you on one thing, people do not have to read the logs on the cache pages, same as they do not need to read the threads of the forum either if they feel it's a ..."dead horse" icon_smile.gif

 

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

er fellow, I understand his concerns and some are shared by me.

It would be nice to see a thread continue from start to end but sticking to the topic instead of adding little comments on the side.

But I do agree with you on one thing, people do not have to read the logs on the cache pages, same as they do not need to read the threads of the forum either if they feel it's a ..."dead horse" icon_smile.gif

 

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Ron Streeter

Ok Quinn..I give up. You are the man. You are right. You win. Satisfied?

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Guest Scout

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

I think many people are aware of what they can do with the new and great edit function that Geocaching.com provides. But I am sorry to say that the same function does not work on a persons own web page.


 

It doesn't need to, does it? If the cache hider doesn't like a hunter posting pics of his cache, he can delete the hunter's log entry, with its reference to his Web site. The Web site may still be there, but how will future hunters know about it or find it?

 

By the way, sorry if I used the words "hate" and "complain" in describing others. I was expressing my own ideas, information and opinion with no criticism intended.

 

I meant to convey my satisfaction with the existing geocaching system because, on this issue, it is flexible enough to allow everyone to play by the rules he prefers. I see no need for or merit in arguing for everyone else to play by one's own rules. But that's just the way I play. You're free to argue something else as much as you want. ;-)

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Guest Quinnow

scout,

 

I was making comment to the fact that people mention these sites via e-mail on lists and groups, not just in this forum. So no, a cache maker does not have that control. And I still insist That I for one do not consider this as complaining. I was just stating that it is something that I myself would rather not see. If it happens then it happens. Kinda like when my wife buys me a diet coke when I ask for regular, I don't like it but i'll drink it icon_smile.gif

 

And Ron...It's not so bad reading your opinions on threads, but some times when you finish you throw that poke in the ribs comment at the end. I am saying that the person who made this thread must have had some concerns or he wouldn't have put his thoughts here. Then to ad a quote from me that I made a while ago in a diff thread and calling this a dead horse was in my opinion a bit rude. And from Anton's response I think he had the same feelings of that. So its not a matter of win/lose to me, I was sticking up for my comments that you made light of.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

scout,

 

I was making comment to the fact that people mention these sites via e-mail on lists and groups, not just in this forum. So no, a cache maker does not have that control. And I still insist That I for one do not consider this as complaining. I was just stating that it is something that I myself would rather not see. If it happens then it happens. Kinda like when my wife buys me a diet coke when I ask for regular, I don't like it but i'll drink it icon_smile.gif

 

And Ron...It's not so bad reading your opinions on threads, but some times when you finish you throw that poke in the ribs comment at the end. I am saying that the person who made this thread must have had some concerns or he wouldn't have put his thoughts here. Then to ad a quote from me that I made a while ago in a diff thread and calling this a dead horse was in my opinion a bit rude. And from Anton's response I think he had the same feelings of that. So its not a matter of win/lose to me, I was sticking up for my comments that you made light of.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Scout

Quinn, you're right, a cache hider can't prevent spoilers broadcasting to mailing lists and posting on message boards. But that's a rare problem, especially compared to the number of spoilers that show up in the logs on the cache page itself. With logs, it is inevitable that spoilers will get published. Almost any description of the cache hunt will give away something new. But the cache hider can control that, if he really wants to.

 

But he might not necessarily want to. After I have successfully hunted a cache, I like reading the details of other hunters, including all the fun details that would spoil it for future hunters. I believe the cache hider does, too. If you don't want to risk seeing something like that, don't read it until after you hunt the cache.

 

I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just explaining an alternative viewpoint that is equally valid.

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Guest Quinnow

Yup...thats a valid point and a good one too!

And sometimes (not all ) I agree with you on that. I have planted many a cache in my area and on several of the reply logs there are clues and hints to where they are placed. i understand people get excited when they log in or find one, so these comments they make get overlooked. I thinks its great that so many people are having such a great time out and about looking for caches. I leave the clue's that they log, but I do incrypt the ones that are sure give-aways. icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

Yup...thats a valid point and a good one too!

And sometimes (not all ) I agree with you on that. I have planted many a cache in my area and on several of the reply logs there are clues and hints to where they are placed. i understand people get excited when they log in or find one, so these comments they make get overlooked. I thinks its great that so many people are having such a great time out and about looking for caches. I leave the clue's that they log, but I do incrypt the ones that are sure give-aways. icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Ron Streeter

George..

 

Say hello to Anton for me when you visit with him in Syracuse.

 

Ron

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Guest k4lyp

I think you can do what you want! I am posting "my finds" with short decriptions of the hunt along with pictures. I think most first time cache hiders tend to over or under rate the cache in difficulty and terrain. I try to help out people with first had experiences. I know on my last hunt I wish the owner had of posted on the site that it was a multi-stage cache! We found it but at first we were pissed that we had to find three other hidden containers for the cache. It turned out to be the best cache yet but I would have like to known from the site that we were in for a rough one.

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Guest Quinnow

r to see if maybe it was his intentions that it be tough to find and maybe to see if it was his plan to have people use some thought and skill to locate it? or would you just provide help no matter what his thoughts or requests would be?

I am just doing my best to understand your views so I can compare them (by the way, everything worded within was meant in a friendly matter) icon_smile.gif

 

oh and Ron...you mean you haven't e-mailed Anton yourself yet? I am shocked!

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

r to see if maybe it was his intentions that it be tough to find and maybe to see if it was his plan to have people use some thought and skill to locate it? or would you just provide help no matter what his thoughts or requests would be?

I am just doing my best to understand your views so I can compare them (by the way, everything worded within was meant in a friendly matter) icon_smile.gif

 

oh and Ron...you mean you haven't e-mailed Anton yourself yet? I am shocked!

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Ron Streeter

Now George....

 

As I posted in the other thread, I am taking some time out to do geocaching, but I will be happy to address you at least one more time on the issue of pictures/hints on web pages. And yes, in that post I will address your associate Anton as well.

 

Regards....the 'mighty' Ron

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Guest Anton

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[This message has been edited by Anton (edited 06 May 2001).]

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Guest Anton

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[This message has been edited by Anton (edited 09 May 2001).]

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