Geocaching on NPR

April 29, 2003

Just heard a cool segment on NPR about us.Way to go Jeremy.29 April 03.Should run off and on all day.

April 29, 2003

I heard it too, on the way into work. I became aware of geocaching when NPR aired a similar story one year ago. Today's story included a poorly placed cache (buried near an archaeological site) and the intro stated that geocaching is outlawed in National Parks. They were fair though and pointed out that there are rules for hiding caches. (Which are not always followed)

April 29, 2003

Curious that it took a Dakotaoan reporter from a small state (population <10,000) with a lib-dem Senator to get the article on NPR. And, why didn't Jeremy mention his interview. NPR ratings might have soared into the hundreds if the geocaching commmunity knew we would hear "the voice of Jeremy!"

She said, "Give up caching, or don't come home." Dang I am gonna miss her!

1.1k · April 29, 2003

Here's a link. "Morning Edition" on NPR. Click on the "Geo-poaching" story. I think it will only be good for today, April 29. After that, you'll have to go to the archives.

Morning Edition

38.2k · April 29, 2003

So he's the one who's leaving all the golf balls!

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

2.3k · April 29, 2003

I clicked on the link. I listened. I have heard the "Voice of Jeremy". Now there are those whispers in my head, telling me to do crazy things...no, just kidding...

Interesting that they decided to call it "Geopoaching". The report cites a cache that was misplaced close to a "teepee ring", but the "poaching" part was not explained, as they didn't mention anything that was taken from the park. They are wrongly implying that some park-protected item was taken. Did you catch the trade made by the geocacher in this report? - "Took flashlight, left golfball". Not exactly a fair trade, huh? You can bet that if an NPR reporter was with ME, I would have left a $20 item in there..."golfball"? Tsk, tsk.

9.2k · April 29, 2003

Since that link will probably only be good for the day, I've converted the report into a compressed mp3 file for archival purposes. It's available here. The file's about 925k. The report itself runs a little under 4 minutes.

24.7k · April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TURTLE:
I heard it too, on the way into work. I became aware of geocaching when NPR aired a similar story one year ago. Today's story included a poorly placed cache (buried near an archaeological site) and the intro stated that geocaching is outlawed in National Parks. They were fair though and pointed out that there are rules for hiding caches. (Which are not always followed)

Since they can't tell us about those archiologigal sites, you really can't worry about placing a cache near one.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

April 29, 2003

Just heard it on the way in too! I laughed out loud when he said he left a golf ball!

All in all, it was a very balanced report. I wish they had Jeremy saying that buried caches were verboten, but I think it still showed caching in a positive and fair light.

38.2k · April 29, 2003

I just wish they mentioned that burying caches is a no-no. The report is only going to reinforce the image that the public and many land managers have of us tramping through the woods, pick and shovel in hand, looking for a spot to bury our caches.

And who was the guy that buried that cache near the archaeological site and got us booted out of the national parks? I think we should hold a geo-court and sentence him to being tarred and feathered.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

April 29, 2003

I also think it's interesting that the reporter said: "At geocaching.com, Jeremy Irish says his website tells users to learn the rules and ask permission before hiding a cache. He hopes more government agencies will encourage geocachers to use public lands."

But in a recent dispute about two caches placed in the same location on public lands, the cache whose owner didn't bother to ask permission is still up on geocaching.com while the cache whose owner sought permission has been archived. Actions speak louder than words.

I also thought it was interesting about the "poaching." I heard nothing about poaching in the article. Sure the people that dug up a place to put the cache were dead wrong, but poaching? Did they take anything from the teepee ring? Maybe the dirt?

All in all, I thought it was a rather neutral or even disparaging report on geocaching.

Cheval

To finish is to win. www.aerc.org

1.4k · April 29, 2003

Ya, Hey! That guy traded down!

---Real men cache in shorts.

1.1k · April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cheval:
But in a recent dispute about two caches placed in the same location on public lands, the cache whose owner didn't bother to ask permission is still up on geocaching.com while the cache whose owner sought permission has been archived. Actions speak louder than words.

Get off your high horse. It was a virtual cache. No permission is required to "place" a virtual cache. Unless, of course, it's buried.

Thanks for playing.

I usually do not know when these things air until they do (especially radio). Initially I was told Monday but it always changes, like this one did.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

quote:
Originally posted by Cheval:
But in a recent dispute about two caches placed in the same location on public lands, the cache whose owner didn't bother to ask permission is still up on geocaching.com while the cache whose owner sought permission has been archived. Actions speak louder than words.

Get off your high horse. It was a virtual cache. No permission is required to "place" a virtual cache. Unless, of course, it's buried.

Well, my horse isn't really that tall, but thanks for asking.

But just because it's a virtual doesn't mean that permission shouldn't be asked, especially if caches in general are banned from a certain area.

Case in point: In some parks around Nashville, TN, a cacher is required to ask permission before placing a cache. Until the recent dispute, I wouldn't have thought that meant virtual caches, either. But it does.

A phone call to a park office would let one know whether permission is required or not.

Cheval

To finish is to win. www.aerc.org

1.4k · April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cheval:

But just because it's a virtual doesn't mean that permission shouldn't be asked, especially if caches in general are banned from a certain area.

What are they going to do. Tell a cache placer they can't ask people to visit a park to look at a sign or a tree?

---Real men cache in shorts.

9.4k · April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cheval:
But just because it's a virtual doesn't mean that permission shouldn't be asked, especially if caches in general are banned from a certain area.

Does the park require you ask permission for you to post their address on the Internet? No? Then you don't need permission to post the coordinates either.

April 29, 2003

This has strayed from the original topic. I have opened up another topic to continue this particular discussion if wanted.

Permission for Caches

To finish is to win. www.aerc.org

1k · April 29, 2003

I almost fell out of my seat when he traded the golf ball! But hey the guy is 76 years old! I sure hope I am still caching at his age

I know Jeremy and most people feel that any advertising is good advertising, especially when it is free but I find I dont tell people about it quite as much as I use to.

It's not that I don't want the site to gain more players, I just feel that some people who get into the sport are in it only for numbers and don't tread lightly. Over time these are the players that will ruin it for us.

I don't complain about trade items, cause I usually just sign the log and TNLN but I do wish there were a standard or at least minimum required container that should be used. I hate the fact that people use crummy leaky containers such as coffee cans and pencil boxes and such Nobody wants to find a soggy cache, at least not me anyways

Did anyone catch the old timers name?

Kar

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:
Did anyone catch the old timers name?

Jerry Polson (or some variation in spelling).

Cheval

To finish is to win. www.aerc.org

April 29, 2003

i got contacted monday by someone who wants to to a segment on geocaching(& the ozark mountain geocachers) on his program ozarks at large on kuaf the fayetteville ark. npr affiliate. he wants to do interviews & go on a hunt. hopefully i'll be one of the interviewees, so what i need is a list of what to talk about that is important to the geocaching community. maybe that way i won't forget anything! luckily for us he's not on a deadline so he'll work around our schedule.

Click to subscribe to ozmtngeocachers

if you cache it, they will come.

1.1k · April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:
I know Jeremy and most people feel that any advertising is good advertising, especially when it is free but I find I dont tell people about it quite as much as I use to.

Here's the way that I look at it. I am by no means a press jockey - to put it bluntly I'd rather be behind the curtain than in front of it. However, I'd rather respond to press inquiries and be the "talking head" instead of say, Burtroid the Monkey Boy who enjoys burying caches in archeological digs with his ATV.

The growth of the sport is astonishing, and certainly this is all growing faster than we anticipated, so I'm pretty indifferent about press at this point. I'll try and respond to inquiries as best I can, and hopefully find a local to go out on a cache hunt with a reporter.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):
I'll try and respond to inquiries as best I can, and hopefully find a local to go out on a cache hunt with a reporter.

To facilitate that process, how about pulling together a listing of regional PR "advocates" who make themselves available for the press? That way there'd be an instant referral to someone amenable to an interview and/or caching trip.

I'd be happy to volunteer as such here in CT, having peripheral dealings with the media professionally, play well with others, and can come up with wonderful references if desired!

{Grin},

Randy

April 29, 2003

For what it's worth, the GC report was pre-empted by the local station's fund drive.

So perhaps, less press is good press?

Anywho, here's a downloadable archive:

GC on NPR 64kps 1.7Mb MP3

April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:
I know Jeremy and most people feel that any advertising is good advertising, especially when it is free but I find I dont tell people about it quite as much as I use to.

Here's the way that I look at it. I am by no means a press jockey - to put it bluntly I'd rather be behind the curtain than in front of it. However, I'd rather respond to press inquiries and be the "talking head" instead of say, Burtroid the Monkey Boy who enjoys burying caches in archeological digs with his ATV.

The growth of the sport is astonishing, and certainly this is all growing faster than we anticipated, so I'm pretty indifferent about press at this point. I'll try and respond to inquiries as best I can, and hopefully find a local to go out on a cache hunt with a reporter.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

We listen to NPR every morning, but I was 'otherwise occupied' when the story came on. My wife cranked it up! So glad to hear you do so well on NPR. Sorry about the golf balls and the digging, buy you came off sounding good. And I think you made Geocaching sound good,too. In fact, even the golf ball trader sounded pretty cool.

Thanks for all your work to keep this going in a good direction!

Bluespreacher

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

April 29, 2003

I heard about the geocache site on NPR for the first time ever today. I was on my way to work and once there immediately signed on. I read all the rules I could find posted, browsed a while and then joined up. I was surprised at how many finds there were in my own backyard,so to speak.I was also surprised at what an enthusiastic and friendly bunch of people were here.I do believe that things are set up in such a way as to attract the people who would take this type of activity seriously while having a great time. I know I surely will...Thanks to all responsible for this great new hobby of mine, and I can't wait to go out and find my first cache.

Thanks again!!!

9.4k · April 29, 2003

Strange, Jeremy's voice was exactly as I pictured it

April 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tikiroy:
I heard about the geocache site on NPR for the first time ever today. I was on my way to work and once there immediately signed on. I read all the rules I could find posted, browsed a while and then joined up. I was surprised at how many finds there were in my own backyard,so to speak.I was also surprised at what an enthusiastic and friendly bunch of people were here.I do believe that things are set up in such a way as to attract the people who would take this type of activity seriously while having a great time. I know I surely will...Thanks to all responsible for this great new hobby of mine, and I can't wait to go out and find my first cache.

Thanks again!!!

Welcome aboard! I hope you get as much fun out of it as I have and many others, too.

Hope to hear from you on the forums.

Keep on caching,

Bluespreacher

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

1k · April 29, 2003

quote:
Here's the way that I look at it. I am by no means a press jockey - to put it bluntly I'd rather be behind the curtain than in front of it. However, I'd rather respond to press inquiries and be the "talking head" instead of say, Burtroid the Monkey Boy who enjoys burying caches in archeological digs with his ATV.

I hear you 100%! Best to be in front of the curtain, aside from the few "bomb scare" caches last summer I feel most news articles have given geocaching favorable reviews. That archaeological one has come up before has it not?

Say, I thought most people here have heard Jeremy before! I know I have when he documented GC on the Travel Channels "World Best Lost Treasures". I recorded it back in july of 02 and I still have it on my TiVo

Kar

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

38.2k · April 30, 2003

quote:
i got contacted monday by someone who wants to to a segment on geocaching(& the ozark mountain geocachers) on his program ozarks at large on kuaf the fayetteville ark. npr affiliate. he wants to do interviews & go on a hunt. hopefully i'll be one of the interviewees, so what i need is a list of what to talk about that is important to the geocaching community. maybe that way i won't forget anything!

One thing to stress is that caches aren't buried. Also, if any inappropriately caches are placed, the website will remove them as soon as they are identified.

Then of course, there are the positive aspects, CITO, great family fun, finding places that you never would have otherwise, great exercise, etc...

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by tmac:
i got contacted monday by someone who wants to to a segment on geocaching(& the ozark mountain geocachers) on his program ozarks at large on kuaf the fayetteville ark. npr affiliate. he wants to do interviews & go on a hunt. hopefully i'll be one of the interviewees, so what i need is a list of what to talk about that is important to the geocaching community. maybe that way i won't forget anything! luckily for us he's not on a deadline so he'll work around our schedule.

DON'T DO IT! We had a similar thing happen here in San Antonio. One of the Austin area cachers was in contact with the local news station, and they wanted to do a story. They talked a nice story, and filmed a few people doing caches, then when they story aired, they did a 2-night split. The first night was a short blurb of a story, but the second night they ripped us up, talking about how illegal it was to be doing this. The only cool thing that came out of this was that they labelled us an "extreme sport". Nonetheless, don't trust reporters with anything that you hold dear. They'll go for any angle to sensationalize so that they get ratings, regardless of the truth. But then in my opinion, reporters are on the same lower evolutionary rung as attorneys and HR drones.

Anyway, be careful.

Budophylus

San Antonio, TX

5-star cache team member (because we can make the easiest 1/1 into a 5-* difficulty cache)

What started all of this? Well, I said to my friend: "I'm bored. Can't we find a new sport?" Now, hundreds of caches later...

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Budophylus:
DON'T DO IT!...they ripped us up, talking about how illegal it was to be doing this.... They'll go for any angle to sensationalize so that they get ratings... Anyway, be careful.

I'm not going to cite threads or post links on this one, but I do feel we need to be cautious and careful not only when caching, but also when talking about caching.

We've adopted the term, "Cache like you were never there". Meaning; we move limbs, not break them; step around the plants, not on them; replace the cache careufully and cover our tracks where apparent.

This way if a reporter wants to show the bad side... well, there is no bad side. (And we don't cache at night)

Just 2¢, but there's more where that came from

1.5k · April 30, 2003

I'm just currious, does anybody know about this buried cache and if it played a part in the deision to ban traditional caches on NPS land? The Park Service decision is a piece of caching history that took place before my time, and have had little luck searching the forums for info on this decision. It's a shame that the poor actions of one can speeak louder than the good and responsible actions of many .

...Not all who wander are lost... unless the batteries in their GPS die, their maps get ruined by rainwater when their pack leaks, and they find themselves in a laurel thicket. Then, they are probably lost.

4.1k · April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by tmac:
i got contacted monday by someone who wants to to a segment on geocaching(& the ozark mountain geocachers) on his program ozarks at large on kuaf the fayetteville ark. npr affiliate. he wants to do interviews & go on a hunt.

I also got contacted by someone who wants to do an interview: this one for American Forests, the member magazine of americanforests.org. Their angle will be on virtual caches that involve "Big Trees" ( a national contest open to everyone who has access to a tree).

[cross fingers] I hope it all goes well. I have no editorial powers over it. [/cross fingers]

-- I recognize fun when I see it.

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:
I almost fell out of my seat when he traded the golf ball! But hey the guy is 76 years old! I sure hope I am still caching at his age

If it was one of these balls it wasn't cheap!

$$$ Balls!

But the next cacher will have to let us know the real cost!

FS

1.6k · April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ego:
We've adopted the term, "Cache like you were never there". Meaning; we move limbs, not break them; step around the plants, not on them; replace the cache careufully and cover our tracks where apparent.

(Emphasis added)

I like that! We like to make sure that our visits are low key. We've gone so far as to lift the blades of tall grass back in place.

But why don't you cache at night? That's our favorite time.

CR

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Budophylus:
DON'T DO IT!

I completely disagree. Just like there are a few bad geocachers, there are a few bad reporters.

Myself and several other geocachers here worked with KPAX (local news station) on a story that they did last fall.

When talking to them I tried to assume that they already thought the worst (i.e. burrying caches, etc), and made sure to mention that that wasn't true before they even got a chance to ask about it. Then I made sure to repeatedly and thouroughly explain CITO, and how it's the responsibility of the cache placer to periodicly check on it and maintain it, and how it's every geocacher responsibility not to tear up the vegetation looking for a cache and leave the area just as the found it, etc. etc. etc.

So, essentially, I tried to dispell any negative misconceptions they might already have, and tried to give them lots of positive material to work with. The final story, as it aired, in my opinion, was great.

Some other geocachers worked more recently with the local University newpaper on a story, and it wasn't too shabby either (although it seemed to me to focus too much on how many finds a person had). But still, very positive, and even mentioned CITO as well.

So, I'd say DO IT!!! But try to anticipate any misconceptions they may already have, and dispell them at the start. Then give them a lot of good material to work with. Might even mention how the reporter in the story that started this thread (they've no dout heard it), got a couple things wrong and correct them on it.

Lastly, I'd say, if you take them on a cache hunt, take them on either a bogus hunt you setup (like we did) just for the purpose of taking them, or take them on one you've already been on, or hid yourself. That way you already know what you're getting into, and have lots of control over the final outcome, and their final impression. Imagine, after dispelling all those negative misconceptions, you take them on a hunt to a burried cache on private property. Whoops!

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

---------------------------------------

April 30, 2003

Just wanted to let you guys know that I have never heard of geocaching till the NPR story the other day. I didn't think it was negative at all. I thought that the bit about placing the cache in an inappropriate spot came off more like an "OOOPPS" then something reckless. Anyway the story made me check out the site and I plan to look for some of the local spots with my son soon. I must of looked pretty silly getting my coffee repeating to myself "geocaching.com, geocashing.com,..." over and over so I wouldn't forget the URL.

1k · April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ego:
We've adopted the term, "Cache like you were never there". Meaning; we move limbs, not break them; step around the plants, not on them; replace the cache careufully and cover our tracks where apparent.

I could not agree more. I wish everyone thought this way. Leave no trace. I will admit I do cache at night, I love it! I just take extra precautions when my visability is restricted and I tend stay away from rough terrain caches. I think virtuals are best kept for night caches, especially if they are in a spooky area

I would also like to add that taking a reporter on a bogus cache is a good idea, but you may want to send an email to the approvers and maybe get it post dated, just in case the reporter wants to add the link to the cache you visited or look it up when he/she is back in the office. I only say this because I believe a local cacher in my area did a report with a reporter and ended up getting skunked when they could not find the cache

Kar

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

[This message was edited by Team Shibby on April 30, 2003 at 01:40 PM.]

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by monks514:
Just wanted to let you guys know that I have never heard of geocaching till the NPR story the other day. I didn't think it was negative at all. I thought that the bit about placing the cache in an inappropriate spot came off more like an "OOOPPS" then something reckless. Anyway the story made me check out the site and I plan to look for some of the local spots with my son soon. I must of looked pretty silly getting my coffee repeating to myself "geocaching.com, geocashing.com,..." over and over so I wouldn't forget the URL.

quote:

Good one monks...I did exactly the same thing in my car halfway across town. Imagine this going on all across the country....Happy Caching!!

April 30, 2003

I also had nothing but good experiences with the interview I did for OC Metro last year. The report that came out was very favorable and showed geocaching in a very good light, including dispelling the myth that they are buried. The reporter seemed to enjoy it. But I should have taken skydiver's advice... It took me nearly 35 minutes to find the cache! I was starting to panic that I wouldn't find the dadgum thing!

April 30, 2003

Originally posted by Budophylus:

DON'T DO IT!

Anyway, be careful.

/QUOTE]

you have a good point, but i've already had a positive story done by a reporter. so positive, in fact, he is now a cacher! but it is always wise to go in armed & cautious. i'll be making a list to take with me. maybe i'll ask for approval before they air. also good point by skydiver about correcting the previous story!

Click to subscribe to ozmtngeocachers

if you cache it, they will come.

2.8k · April 30, 2003

quote:
if it played a part in the deision to ban traditional caches on NPS land

I was a little surprised by that reference in the story. I recall earlier mentions in the forums (awhile ago) that the NPS has a policy of all abandoned property is litter. And a container hidden in the park is abandoned property. I doubt that this policy came into being in the last 3 years.

24.7k · April 30, 2003

One other thing about archaeological/cultural sites

People today like to go to the same beautiful and interesting places of people long ago. The only difference is that today we have a government hell bent on protecting these places by not telling us about them. Then the government complains when like the people of long ago, we find these cool places anyway and visit them. Worse we enjoy it. However our modern enjoyment seems to have less value to the government we finance then it does protecting the integrity of ‘resource’ of the long dead. The long dead don’t pay the bills.

Get an archeologist to dig up the site, study it, restore it to natural and then let us enjoy it too. Don’t ever give me flack about something you won’t tell me about.

You can call this bias cultural discrimination. Think about it. They protect cultures long past by protecting these areas from the cultures of today.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

April 30, 2003

quote:
People today like to go to the same beautiful and interesting places of people long ago. The only difference is that today we have a government hell bent on protecting these places by not telling us about them.....

True, but another difference is that today people are much more numerous and irresponsible, or at least a good percentage of our enormous population takes the opportunity to be.

When I find what seems to be a secret, neat place off the beaten path somewhere, there's always the discovery of candy wrappers, beer bottles, etc. strewn across the landscape.

It is sad.

(I'm not saying geocachers are responsible for this mess)

38.2k · April 30, 2003

quote:
And a container hidden in the park is abandoned property

Main Entry: aban·don

Pronunciation: &-'ban-d&n

Function: transitive verb

Etymology: Middle English abandounen, from Middle French abandoner, from abandon, n., surrender, from a bandon in one's power

Date: 14th century

1 b : to give up with the intent of never again claiming a right or interest in.

Doesn't sound like a geocache to me.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

1.5k · April 30, 2003

quote:
When I find what seems to be a secret, neat place off the beaten path somewhere, there's always the discovery of candy wrappers, beer bottles, etc. strewn across the landscape.
It is sad.

(I'm not saying geocachers are responsible for this mess)

Agreed, My experience with other cachers I know is that none of them are the type of people who would visit a site, especially one of historic significance, and treat it disrespectfully. Often they're the ones picking up after the more careless visitors and causing less 'damage' to the site.

Plus, not that I am advocating individuals removing artifacts from NPS land (which is highly illegal and an activity I can't imagine many cacher's doing), but what good is the artifact doing by sitting in the ground? What difference does it make if an old pot rusts away "protected" 2 feet underground or on an old dusty shelf in some scavenger's home? Nobody gets anything from it either way.

...Not all who wander are lost... unless the batteries in their GPS die, their maps get ruined by rainwater when their pack leaks, and they find themselves in a laurel thicket. Then, they are probably lost.

1.1k · April 30, 2003

.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):
.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

I agree completely.

.

April 30, 2003

If anyone is interested, I believe this is the cache that was being found on the NPR segment.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=9024

Olgezzer found two that day. This one was in Nebraska and the other was across the river in South Dakota. The one in South Dakota is one that my nephew and I placed some time ago.

Brian

April 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):
.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Like you, I'm puzzled how we got here from the NPR story, but I share your opinion about our 'right' to plunder archeological sites. After all, what have old pots done for US lately?

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

Geocaching on NPR

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