Another (Cache) Bomb Scare in Utah

[+Scout Master]

A few days ago it was suggested that a Cache in Salt Lake City was poorly placed and should be removed The following is a clip of the Comment.

 

{QUOTE}

Potentially disastrous cache locations.

 

Maybe I (Mr. Cach-U-Nut) am paranoid but I went to a cache at lunchtime today that quite freaked me out. It is called I'd walk a mile for a geocache. GCE88C. Several groups of joggers were checking me out as I looked around so I immediately left and posted the following log.

 

March 25 by Cach-U-Nuts (431 found)

 

Guys, I hate to be a party pooper but I highly recommend that this cache be archived as soon as possible. This has the potential for being a bigger disaster that the Hill Field episode. First, there is a major police training facility less than 300 feet to the west. Second, there is a large propane tank about 75 feet from the cache. Third, there is a major interstate 250 feet to the east. Fourth, you are in plain view of dozens of joggers and walkers while you are looking for the cache. (A lot of them are probably police cadets.)

 

When the bomb squad gets called about the suspicious activity here they will have to evacuate the police academy and the American Express building and likely several other buildings in the area. They will have to shut down I-215 for several hours while the container is x-rayed. If the call comes in during rush hour it would be much worse the Hill Field.

 

We need to be extremely careful about where we decide to place caches now days.

 

I would like to know if you think I am being ridiculous about this. Several cachers have found this cache and only one mentioned being nervous about flipping open a pocket knife right next to the police academy.

 

{END QUOTE}

 

Their was some discussion over the next few days but NOTHING was done. The following was the result.

 

{QUOTE}

Well, you all can stop arguing about this cache because it is gone. A friend of mine works in the government buildings by this cache and his mother was running on the track. She saw a couple with "devices" in their hands and did another lap. The next time around she saw them "digging." She approached them and asked them what they were doing. They (a man and a woman) told her it was none of her business and that she should just leave. She didn't leave and she said that it was her business because this was government property, the terror alert is orange, there is a war on and my son works in that building over there. She even threatened to call the police if they didn't tell her. They responded, "My God lady, we live in Utah!"

 

Well, she didn't call the police straight away...instead she called her son to ask him what he thought. Unfortunately he was not in his office at the time, in which case his calls are forwarded to the UHP. She went ahead and told them and luckily a UHP officer and someone else went out and found it by themselves without shutting everything down like Cach-U-Nuts warned.

 

They were, nonetheless, not pleased with the cache and the problems it could have caused. It has been removed and is now in "evidence" because there is now a case# on this and the possibility of charges being pressed. They are going after Geocaching.com but they will soon realize that it doesn't belong to them. Let's hope they don't go after the cache owner.

 

We are not allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theatre and people with reason understand this. There may be a time soon when we are not allowed to act in a suspicious manner or at the very least hide things where we do not have permission to hide them. Several people did not heed the warning of Cach-U-Nuts and defiantly found the cache anyway to stick up for "freedom." How many more HAFB incidents do we need before people realize that we're not living in the world we lived in a couple of years ago when we first started caching? Go ahead and practice your freedom to find caches in questionable areas, but it just may cause a bigger black eye for the Geocaching community.

 

we'll See ya on the Trail

[iryshe]

Actually the message was posted yesterday. Grr. It's both unfortunate that this happened, but it's even more frustrating that the geocachers were so belligerent about it.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location™

[+Firefishe]

I agree with both ScoutMaster and Jeremy on this one.

 

A veritable location disaster-in-the-making, and a belligerent--read: impolite!--attitude on the part of the 'cachers-in-question, do not reflect postively on our pasttime.

 

These type of participants certainly do not reflect the proactive majority of postively-motivated, community-minded geocachers.

 

I am most heartily in favor of trashing this cache and would heartily lend my voice in a letter-of-support-and-apology to the UHP on the part of the geocaching community at large if it goes that far

 

Warm regards,

Firefishe

 

[+1911]

truely unfortunate

 

I have been reading alot about how folks are worried about liability issues with regards to this site,perhaps the owners should consider incorporating it into a LLC.

[+Renegade Knight]

If the geocachers had explained themselves once they were busted there would have been no issue.

 

As for "Pooly Placed" that's the opinion of the officer who found the cache. Cache U seems to agree. Before I could have my own opinion I'd have to see the spot myself.

 

If a police training camp is next to a park and the cache is in the park what's the issue? Do we need to bulldoze a 300 yard perimiter around anything that is remotly sensitive so that there are no threats?

 

To what extreme do we need to go? Archiving every cache that is near a spot that someone doesn't like is not viable. Someone hates every cache out there for some reason or another.

 

As for the lady who made the issue, she was doing what she was supposed to be doing. The world needs more people like her and less like the cachers in question. They could of been one heck of a lot more discrete. I've made converts to geocaching when I've been busted and my first 'non' comment didn't fly.

 

Wherever you go there you are.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

Given the circumstances and location, I fully support its removal. There was an incident I found myself 'involved' with a few weeks ago that follows this same line of thought...although I wasn't aware of the issue until much later in the day when I read further logs and listserv info about this particular cache.

 

In summary, a micro cache was placed on the nw edge of a new city ballfield. However, this area that bordered where the cache was happened to be a city water treatment facility. At the time, I had no idea, because I honestly wasn't looking at what was beyond the fenceline in an area I could not search. A PD helicopter did fly over the area, but continued on to a call. A few days later, the cache was re-released and I logged my find, only then noticing the city sign down the street at the entrance to the facility. (edit: This only became an issue when some later cachers were questioned by the security guard, who appeared extremely freaked out by the foot traffic to this area after the cache was placed)

 

Unfortunately, we must be MORE aware of our surroundings in reference to where caches are placed. I suppose you could say that was a psychological victory as a result of 9/11, but it's something that we should have been anyway. Situational awareness has been heightened nationwide (or worldwide for that matter), and as everything changes, we too must adapt to these changes. I can still hike around in the middle of BFE with my GPS in hand looking for ammo cans among gila monsters/scorpions/snakes, without fear of being arrested. Urban caching has become more sensitive in recent months, and it all boils down to geocachers needing to be more 'responsible' in how/where/when we place caches.

 

Brian

Team A.I.

[+Lil Devil]

What I don't understand is why the cachers were so beligerent when asked. I have been "challenged" several times and have been honest and forthwith. Every time the response has been along the lines of "cool. I'll have to try it."

 

Its not like geocaching is an underground sport.

 

Then again there are times when it is best to just abandon the search and come back later to avoid the cache being plundered.

 

But to be rude about it just invites problems.

 

Lil Devil

[+BrownMule & Jackrabbit]

Funny that nobody wants to discuss the real issue. You know that "P" word. Permission before you hide will make or break this game in the future. The sooner this is realized and made an absolute requirement the sooner we will be on the road to making this game an accepted hobby and rid the game of the outlaw image that some folks have of the game. There is no need for this to turn into another permission thread because it would be like the others, some agree some don't. We will just have to see who is right, time will tell.

 

_________________________________________________________

On the other hand, you have different fingers.

[+TEAM 360]

They may have permission and STILL put the cache in a stupid place...nothing aggrevates me more than knowing that you are close to an urban cache, but can't get it because of the amount of people around...rule number 1 should be: put the cache in an out-of-view area...not onstage for the world to see...

[SE7EN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrownMule:

The sooner this is realized and made an absolute requirement the sooner we will be on the road to making this game an accepted hobby and rid the game of the outlaw image that some folks have of the game.

---

 

You'll run up against the express versus implied permission issue. Some LM's will NOT give express permission for liability reasons.

[crowens1]

The joys of living in a police state =(

 

Oh, I mean... yah, bad cachers!

 

In that case, we may want to archive Vegas 9/11 Memorial Cache as well, because that shares similarities with I'd Walk A Mile For A Geocache. Both are near a police academy, both near "potential soft targets," and, strangely enough, both near -215! (OK, in LAS I think its SR 215, but close enough.) And, ours has a skate park nearby as well. Won't somebody think about the children???

 

 

The cache location wasn't the problem. If the cachers had some tact, or, had been smart enough to return at a less busy time, they wouldn't have raised the ire of the nosy jogger. I do think that the jogger may have gone a bit overboard, but John Ashcroft and the media have conditioned her to report "anything out of the ordinary," because THEY could attack ANYWHERE, AT ANYTIME. So its not entirely her fault.

 

As much as I'd like to fault UHP for confiscating the cache, at that point, they had no choice. I'm sure that the responding officer quickly realized that the cache posed no threat to public safety, however, its only a time until the next jogger calls another cacher in the same location.....

 

::sigh::

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Not every cacher is belligerent when questioned about what we are doing. We were the later cachers mentioned by Brian/Team A.I. in his post March 26th 5:53 pm. We were very polite, straightforward and apologetic to the security guard. He was very nervous over the whole thing but relieved when we took the cache away. We promised the security guard that we would warn our caching community about placing caches there. That seemed to stop him from his rants about trespassing, cops and helicopters. (If anyone was offended by our later post, I’m sorry…it was never meant as criticism, I was just doing what the security guard asked me to do.) For the record, neither Brian or any other cacher was trespassing. They were all on the city park side of the fence. Our team got a kick out of it later (and a cool story to tell) but we recognize the importance of awareness and sensitivity in the post 9/11 world. The original cache was given a different location and we released the original container as another cache at the owner’s request.

 

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

 

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898