btouch Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Wow! All the caches I have placed (four so far) contain some expression of my faith in Christ. They are not theme caches and I also put other stuff, McToys, Matchbox cars, etc. in there. Trade for whatever items interest you. If I were to find a cache that contained Wiccan, Neo-Natzi, etc. stuff in it, I would most likely trade one of my Christian items for it. Once I've traded for the item, it becomes mine and I then have the right to dispose of it if I like. Evangelical Christians, like myself, believe that the Bible is the true, in-errant, Word of God. We adhere to Matthew 28:18-20 in which Jesus tells his disciples, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Sharing the Gospel is not just an act of obedience, however, it is also an act of Love. We believe that all have sinned and fallen short and are undeserving of the Grace that God has provided, but the offer of Grace is there for all to accept. We love one another enough to share this message of Grace because without it, the sinner (everyone) will be condemned for all eternity. I agree that most tracts and other Christian messages will likely end up in the garbage, but they are not all in vain. I would guess that the number of souls won for Christ by the Gideons would be well into the hundreds of thousands if not millions, simply from giving out free Bibles. I personally know one man that was saved in this way. In closing, the caches are meant for fun. Let's not ruin this time of enjoying by debating and arguing. If you see something you don't think should be in a cache, trade for it and throw it away. Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 After some thought, I decided it's not worth it. But I wonder, how would you feel if I pushed my beliefs as hard as you pushed yours? I'll trade for tracts, no problem. I'll trade exactly what I think they're worth. CR [This message was edited by Sissy-n-CR on September 19, 2003 at 07:45 AM.] Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR: I'll trade for tracts, no problem. I'll trade exactly what I think they're worth. FAMOUS SCENES IN GEOCACHING LITERATURE CR standing alongside the roadway pleading to anyone who passes: "A tract, a tract; my truck for a tract." Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote: btouch wrote:Sharing the Gospel is not just an act of obedience, however, it is also an act of Love. We believe that all have sinned and fallen short and are undeserving of the Grace that God has provided, but the offer of Grace is there for all to accept. And what if I don't want to accept it? What if I don't need to accept it? I'm sick of you people telling me that I should think this way or that way. Who the heck are you to tell me anything? I don't want your help. I don't want you to be my saviour. If there is such a thing as the pearly gates, I'll take my chances there. I'm fine with my beliefs, thank you very much, and it's obvious from this thread that I'm not the only one who thinks this way, so stop putting your religious crap in caches. ***** Link to comment
Keystone Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Jomarac, if I were to approve the Pearly Gates as a virtual, would you be willing to go for FTF? If you could go back and edit the two cuss words out of your post, I'd be delighted. You're entitled to your opinion of religious materials in caches, however. -------------------- Signal says, "Drink the Kool-Aid!" Link to comment
+beejay&esskay Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ChurchCampDave: and OBTW: evolution is PSEUDO-science. It does not follow the scientific method. It is purely speculative and all the "evidence" is subject to several interpretations. GDAE, Dave I have the same problem with the unproven Theory of Gravity. Link to comment
enfanta Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote: If I were to find a cache that contained Wiccan, Neo-Natzi, etc. stuff in it, I would most likely trade one of my Christian items for it. Yeah! Those dadgum Wiccans and all their hate speech! The whole lot should be burned at the stake!! Ode to a Pigeon: Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, You Lookin' at Me? YOU LOOKIN' AT ME?! (b. katt, 7/14/03) Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by beejay&esskay: I have the same problem with the unproven Theory of Gravity. As do I every day as I crawl through traffic past the sign that proclaims "your tax dollars at work" when there's never anyone doing any work. Link to comment
+Bilder Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:And what if I don't want to accept it? What if I don't need to accept it? I'm sick of you people telling me that I should think this way or that way. Who the heck are you to tell me anything? I don't want your help. I don't want you to be my saviour. If there is such a thing as the pearly gates, I'll take my chances there. Someone is always telling you what to think. That is life. We are bombarded with information on how to live and what to think every day. What you do with that information is up to you. Many do not realize how much this happens until they hear something they do not agree with. Only then does it become a problem. I don't want to be anyone's saviour. That is between you and God. If someone were to tell me what they believe, I would listen. No harm in hearing a differing point of view. You do not have to believe it, simply hear the person out, nod your head, and say thanks for the info. I listen to differing views all the time. Yet I find it strange that when I try and share my views to that same person, I am a crazy bible thumper. Go figure. Common manners would suggest that you listen in a polite manner in the same way I listened to your views. Don't have to agree, just nod and say thanks for the info and get on with your life. As for stuff in caches- Like I said in an earlier post, I usually leave stuff I may not agree with unless it is something I have not read before. Then I will trade for it. Figures of differing faiths I treat just like any other trade item. Most of the time they were placed there with no knowlege of what the figure represents. The only stuff I will play cache cop with is porn or extreme vulgar langage stuff. I feel that caches should be rated "PG". I would trade out for the offending item and get rid of it. There are kids and minors who open caches and I dont think some parents would like little Jonny to ask if he can trade for that playboy in the ammo box. So far I have never had to remove such items and I hope I never run across any. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have never been lost. Been awful confused for a few days, but never lost! N61.12.041 W149.43.734 Link to comment
btouch Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:I'm sick of you people telling me that I should think this way or that way. Who the heck are you to tell me anything? I don't want your help. I don't want you to be my saviour. I didn't tell you that you 'should think this way or that.' I simply shared my belief, the same as you and everyone else here is sharing their beliefs. And, I am certainly not anyone's savior, nor do I attempt to be. I'm sorry if my post offended, I was just hoping to shed some light on why some Christians want to place items relating to their faith in a cache. Arguing is not a good tool for witnessing. Showing the love and compassion of Christ is the best tool we have, but we should try to be equipped well enough to have an answer whenever someone questions us. You cannot force your beliefs on others; they must want to accept them. I don't go around preaching to others, stopping people in the grocery store or in the workplace to tell them about Jesus. But when people ask, I do tell them. At one time I bought a dozen copies of "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell and placed them on the corner of my desk at work. When people would ask what they were for, I told them that it was a book written in defense of Christ. When they asked why I had so many, I told them that I bought a bunch just in case anyone else wanted one. I must admit that it took several weeks, but eventually, all of them were taken. That said, I will not make any more posts on this subject unless someone has a question I feel I can adequately answer. Link to comment
+Team Sand Dollar Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jomarac5: I'm fine with my beliefs, thank you very much, and it's obvious from this thread that I'm not the only one who thinks this way, so stop putting your religious XXXX in caches. ***** But now you have decided that I don't want it. Maybe I do. If you don't like it leave it. Someone else may want it. Please don't decide for me if a religious item is appropriate or not. Team Sand Dollar Link to comment
Jomarac5 Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Team Sand Dollar, if you want religious materials then I suggest that you go to a church. There's probably one near you that would be happy to give you all the pamphlets, CDs and other material that you could hope for. Religious material is not appropriate for a cache. ***** Link to comment
+ChrisCindy Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 I agree with the freedom of speech. If one is allowed to speak for something then one should be allowed to speak against it. However, removing something like a flyer (free speach) is restricting someones rights by "eleminating" what they had to say. For the most part it is becoming acceptable to take away the free speech when it comes to religion and that should scare everyone. Once they (the gov.) take away or limit one right it will be easier to do the next one. ALL rights should be protected even if you are protecting it for someone else. If I don't agree with something I ignore it because someone else might find it interesting. Taking it upon yourself to "edit" someone elses speech is dangerous to all our rights. I now pass the soap box on to someone else to voice their opinions. "When in doubt...hit it with a hammer" C²™ Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Chris&Cindy:I agree with the freedom of speech. ... what about an expicit flyer from "Diamond Jim's Gentlemen's Club?" CR Link to comment
+RomadPilot Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Chris&Cindy:I agree with the freedom of speech. If one is allowed to speak for something then one should be allowed to speak against it. However, removing something like a flyer (free speach) is restricting someones rights by "eleminating" what they had to say. For the most part it is becoming acceptable to take away the free speech when it comes to religion and that should scare everyone. Once they (the gov.) take away or limit one right it will be easier to do the next one. ALL rights should be protected even if you are protecting it for someone else. If I don't agree with something I ignore it because someone else might find it interesting. Taking it upon yourself to "edit" someone elses speech is dangerous to all our rights. I now pass the soap box on to someone else to voice their opinions. "When in doubt...hit it with a hammer" C²™ Hasn't the "Gov't" begun to limit this. There was quite a todo about a piece of granite in a courthouse. Until everyone who claims to be an American understands that it's the tolerance we should show to each other that sets us apart from the rest of the world, we will continue to have problems. This country is made up of "ALL" types. If people would understand that we would all live better lives. I have spent a great many years overseas serving in the military. The rest of the countries in the world are so intolerant of everyone else. We claim to be a melting pot and we carry some wonderful ideals. Many people see us as hypocrites for trying to force our ideals on them, when we don't live by them ourselves! I don't care what religion, race, ethnicity, or what have you makes up who you are. I hope to see you out caching. Link to comment
Keystone Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 On the previous page I wrote, "But when the discussion starts to stray towards a pure debate on different religious beliefs, then find another forum..." Several of the most recent posts have not mentioned geocaching at all, or only in passing. We've had four pages of discussion. We will likely have four more in a month or two when someone else "discovers" this issue, so see you then. CR, I've e-mailed my address to you. If you could please send me those flyers, I will review them for appropriateness as cache trade items. -------------------- Signal says, "Drink the Kool-Aid!" Link to comment
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