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Airport Security vs. GPS


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I have taken mine through airport security twice a week almost every week and have never had a problem. Some new screeners have asked the more senior screener what it is and they have always identified it correctly as a gps and all went well.

 

Bruce

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I just put mine in with my laptop last week on a trip from Portland OR to New Orleans LA. They checked the laptop and ignored all the adaptors, cables, camera & GPS. I don't recommend trying to use it in flight. It may be considered a radio as it is a reciever and they are not to be operated during flight. I left mine stowed to not upset any other passangers and raise questions. If you have a map version, tell them what it is and let them know it's to keep from getting lost in town. Be prepared to turn it on to demonstrate it.

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Hi,

 

I took my Vista in my carry-on luggage in the beginning of march. No questions asked neither in Brussels nor in Singapore. Same on the way back in Auckland.

 

Didn't try to use it on the plane though (wasn't sitting near the window...)

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PIT

MCO

CVG

ATL

ABY

EWR

PHL

SGF

DSM ... had it with my on September 11 and flew back to PIT with it. Not a problem.

 

I know a few screeners have looked at my bag funny and I've wondered if it was the GPS. But then again ... in my bag I've got my laptop, a Palm IIIxe with camera add-on, a PalmKeyboard, sunglasses, extra pair of glasses, tape measure and the GPSr.

 

And I wonder why I'm so often the "Randomly Selected" passenger!

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quote:
Originally posted by rdw:

Several people have reported here that they were allowed to use them during flight. Ask the pilot when you board.

 


 

I thought this was basically the same as using a cell phone while on a plane? Nearly 2 years ago I saw a flight attendent freak out on a passenger who was using a GPS on a flight. icon_confused.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by rdw:

Several people have reported here that they were allowed to use them during flight. Ask the pilot when you board.

 


 

I thought this was basically the same as using a cell phone while on a plane? Nearly 2 years ago I saw a flight attendent freak out on a passenger who was using a GPS on a flight. icon_confused.gif

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Before September 11 I had taken a flight aboard Southwest. There were no problems getting on with it. The in flight magazine indicated that a GPSr was allowed in flight, but not during takeoff and landing. I had fun using it and logged a couple of interesting waypoints along the way. As far as these post 9/11 days, I am not sure if they have changed their rules for use.

 

I never get lost!

I simply investigate alternate destinations!

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I've used mine in-flight a number of times (all pre 9/11)without problem. The last time I used it I was invited into the cockpit (still pre 9/11) and rode in the jumpseat for most of the flight. It was an old DC-9, non GPS equipped, and the pilots wanted to play with my toy.

 

I doubt that I'd get the same invitation these days.

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quote:
Originally posted by Yak Man:

I took mine to Oregon last week. it was in my carry on. However American wont let you use them in flight. They are are listed as Non approved devices. It seems silly to me but what can you do? icon_rolleyes.gif


 

Ask the captian (if you can) when you board. Sometimes they will allow it eventhough official policy is different. After all it is HIS ship.

 

- Lone Rangers

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quote:
Originally posted by Yak Man:

I took mine to Oregon last week. it was in my carry on. However American wont let you use them in flight. They are are listed as Non approved devices. It seems silly to me but what can you do? icon_rolleyes.gif


 

Ask the captian (if you can) when you board. Sometimes they will allow it eventhough official policy is different. After all it is HIS ship.

 

- Lone Rangers

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I used mine on three different United flights last month and the announcement said to not use any electronic devices in the first and last ten minutes of the flight. I had my external antannae with me and wedged it under the plastic door. Worked great. I could identify rivers and even wonder why the pilot was "weaving" back and forth half way through the flight (We were ahead of schedule). I set the goto feature for the airport ahead and was kept appraised of the distance left and our ETA. The altitude showed 33k and I finally figured out it meant 33,000 ft.

I still keep my maximum speed saved - 505 mph.

I just put it away when they said to turn off all devices. No problem

 

nscaler

"Anyone not here, raise your hand!".

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quote:
Originally posted by MiJo:

 

I thought this was basically the same as using a cell phone while on a plane? Nearly 2 years ago I saw a flight attendent freak out on a passenger who was using a GPS on a flight. icon_confused.gif


 

Your GPSr doesn't transmit anything. It is a receiver only. The signals that it picks up are all around and through the cockpit of the plane already regardless of your GPS or not.

 

Sure, FUD may cause the aircraft personal to ask you to turn it off but there is no reason that you would interfere with any of the avionics.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

4525_1300.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by MiJo:

 

I thought this was basically the same as using a cell phone while on a plane? Nearly 2 years ago I saw a flight attendent freak out on a passenger who was using a GPS on a flight. icon_confused.gif


 

Your GPSr doesn't transmit anything. It is a receiver only. The signals that it picks up are all around and through the cockpit of the plane already regardless of your GPS or not.

 

Sure, FUD may cause the aircraft personal to ask you to turn it off but there is no reason that you would interfere with any of the avionics.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

4525_1300.gif

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Taking the GPS through security hasn't even been a problem to me. Neither has using it in flgiht, although one flight attendant once asked if it was a cell phone. (Vista, looks like a phone).

 

The increased security isn't too tight, anyway. Two days ago I forgot to put my pocket knife in the suitcase, and realized this too late to change. Since it's a Victorinox Champion, I wasn't keen on throwing it away, so I simply placed it in my hand luggage and gave it a try.

No objections from the personell. This was in Paris.

 

Anders

 

Anders

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

 

Your GPSr doesn't transmit anything. It is a receiver only. The signals that it picks up are all around and through the cockpit of the plane already regardless of your GPS or not.

 


 

United seems to be okay with GPS to be used in flight. I had not problems several times, although it only worked right next to the window (request a window seat).

 

Some radio receivers do emit electromagnetic radiation in the frequency band used by pilot communications (116-136 MHz). The internal amplifiers of the receiver used to amplifiy the signal from the antenna will emit this EMR. I have been able to test this at home with a normal FM radio and a scanner in the above mentioned frequencies. I imagine though that the amplifiers in a GPSr work at much lower levels (amplitudes) since they do not need to emit sounds.

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not only can you get a GPS through security, but I have used in on the airplane thru the window many times, with full permission from the crew. The "slick" way to do it is to ask, "Can I use my GPS now?" The crew think you are talking about some laptop or something and will let you do so. Just hold the reciever by the window and you should be able to get a fix.

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quote:
Originally posted by chloew:

 

Some radio receivers do emit electromagnetic radiation in the frequency band used by pilot communications (116-136 MHz). The internal amplifiers of the receiver used to amplifiy the signal from the antenna will emit this EMR. I have been able to test this at home with a normal FM radio and a scanner in the above mentioned frequencies. I imagine though that the amplifiers in a GPSr work at much lower levels (amplitudes) since they do not need to emit sounds.


 

Yup. They emit. I was on a trip last weekend. I pulled out a little-used CB radio, and noticed that my Meridian caused a little increase in the noise on the radio.

 

A car engine is not designed to emit sound, but I can hear them just the same.

 

The GPS signal is in the gigahertz range. A signal this fast is difficult to work with. The usual trick is to use a "superheterdyne." This term was popular years ago, but is now as common as "solid-state" and for much the same reasons.

 

What actually happens is that you have a reference sinusoidal clock from an on-board osciallator, and you have your received signal from your antenna. When you multiply (the engineering term is to "mix") the waveforms of these signals together, you get the received signal which is shifted down in frequency by the same amount as the frequency of the original oscillator.

 

An example: 100 MHz signal x 60 MHz oscillator = 40 MHz signal. You would also get a 160 MHz signal, but you filter that out. As the frequency gets lower, it becomes easier to deal with. You typically convert a modulated signal to baseband (down to 0 Hz) in two steps.

 

The point is this: you have a signal coming in, and it is converted to a different frequency. The wires inside electronic devices also act like antennas. This means that this intermediate frequency (called IF) will be radiated. Steps can be taken to reduce this noise, but such measures cost money, and would raise the price of the unit. I would expect products have just enough shielding so that they pass FCC regulations and no more.

 

Sorry for all the techno-babble. icon_biggrin.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by chloew:

 

Some radio receivers do emit electromagnetic radiation in the frequency band used by pilot communications (116-136 MHz). The internal amplifiers of the receiver used to amplifiy the signal from the antenna will emit this EMR. I have been able to test this at home with a normal FM radio and a scanner in the above mentioned frequencies. I imagine though that the amplifiers in a GPSr work at much lower levels (amplitudes) since they do not need to emit sounds.


 

Yup. They emit. I was on a trip last weekend. I pulled out a little-used CB radio, and noticed that my Meridian caused a little increase in the noise on the radio.

 

A car engine is not designed to emit sound, but I can hear them just the same.

 

The GPS signal is in the gigahertz range. A signal this fast is difficult to work with. The usual trick is to use a "superheterdyne." This term was popular years ago, but is now as common as "solid-state" and for much the same reasons.

 

What actually happens is that you have a reference sinusoidal clock from an on-board osciallator, and you have your received signal from your antenna. When you multiply (the engineering term is to "mix") the waveforms of these signals together, you get the received signal which is shifted down in frequency by the same amount as the frequency of the original oscillator.

 

An example: 100 MHz signal x 60 MHz oscillator = 40 MHz signal. You would also get a 160 MHz signal, but you filter that out. As the frequency gets lower, it becomes easier to deal with. You typically convert a modulated signal to baseband (down to 0 Hz) in two steps.

 

The point is this: you have a signal coming in, and it is converted to a different frequency. The wires inside electronic devices also act like antennas. This means that this intermediate frequency (called IF) will be radiated. Steps can be taken to reduce this noise, but such measures cost money, and would raise the price of the unit. I would expect products have just enough shielding so that they pass FCC regulations and no more.

 

Sorry for all the techno-babble. icon_biggrin.gif

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I had the same thing with a CB radio and also with a TV. I found that if I removed the power cable it pretty much eliminated the snow on the televsion and the sound fro mthe CB. Could the power cable work like an antanna?

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

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quote:
Originally posted by phantom4099:

I had the same thing with a CB radio and also with a TV. I found that if I removed the power cable it pretty much eliminated the snow on the televsion and the sound fro mthe CB. Could the power cable work like an antanna?

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.


 

In a word. YES.

You can use pretty much anything that conducts as an antenna. Even your own body. icon_eek.gif

 

- Lone Rangers

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quote:
Originally posted by phantom4099:

I had the same thing with a CB radio and also with a TV. I found that if I removed the power cable it pretty much eliminated the snow on the televsion and the sound fro mthe CB. Could the power cable work like an antanna?

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.


 

In a word. YES.

You can use pretty much anything that conducts as an antenna. Even your own body. icon_eek.gif

 

- Lone Rangers

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quote:
Originally posted by phantom4099:

I had the same thing with a CB radio and also with a TV. I found that if I removed the power cable it pretty much eliminated the snow on the televsion and the sound fro mthe CB. Could the power cable work like an antanna?


 

It is almost maddening. Spending an extra $1.00 to add a couple of inductors and caps to the power input would solve so many problems. I wish that they would fix problems like these.

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quote:
Originally posted by harrkev:

 

It is almost maddening. Spending an extra $1.00 to add a couple of inductors and caps to the power input would solve so many problems. I wish that they would fix problems like these.


 

If only it were that simple! Having taken a dozen or so products through FCC testing, I can personally attest you can cover your circuit board with caps, inductors, and fer. beads until it looks like a fancy Chia Pet, and still not nec. pass the open field test. I've had a case where we were whisper quiet, changed wall adapter suppliers, and been back in RF hell.

 

Still, you're right. I know that a lot of HAM operators would get along better with their neighbors if receiver makers would spend a few dollars more. It's a little funny to watch a guy (or gal) with a big radio ant. on the roof explain to his neighbor that the problem is the cheap radio receiver, not the transmitter next door, but many times the HAM enthusiast is right.

 

-jjf

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Carried mine through security in the past month at:

CMH (Columbus, OH)

DET (Detroit, MI city)

MPS (Minneapolis, MN)

LAX (Los Angeles, CA)

SNA (Orange County, CA, aka John Wayne Intl.)

 

Got spot checked at CMH and LAX, they barely glanced at the GPS.

 

Also, in the pre-flight safety speech, Northwest Airlines explicity mentions GPSRs as disallowed items.

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We went from Washington to Las Vegas last month (SeaTac Int'l Airport to McCarron) and had our GPS with us in my carryon. It went through two security checks (one was a person and one was the automated Xray machine) and it passed just fine. Problem was that once we were seated and ready to fly (we were on Alaska Airlines) all passengers were told that GPS units were not permitted to be used during the flight.

 

Darn. I was hoping to try it out way up there!

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Carrying a GPS has never been a problem for me travelling in Canada, the US, Asia, Europe, Africa, or Australia. Sometimes they'll ask you to turn in on to see if it works and once I had to explain that it couldn't get a signal INSIDE the building. Most security people think it's just a strange looking cell phone, but as long as something shows up on the screen they're happy.

Sometimes while lining up at airport security I've seen other people pull out their GPS units for inspection and I've always wondered if they were a fellow geocacher?

 

Stev

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They are probably not allowed on many carriers have realized that the map units can show how well you are flying.

 

Many hospitals do not allow you to videotape childbirth just in case there is a problem during the procedure. If you have videotape evidence, you will win a malpractice suit.

 

GPS units record your altitude, speed, line travelled, etc. and would be unwelcome by any company that does not want the added scrutiny. The FAA checks up enough on them, why would they want a bunch of "amatuers" monitoring their flights as well?

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quote:
Originally posted by Butano:

(snip) The in flight magazine indicated that a GPSr _was_ allowed in flight, but not during takeoff and landing. (snip) As far as these post 9/11 days, I am not sure if they have changed their rules for use.

 

I never get lost!

I simply investigate alternate destinations!


 

I flew to Houston last week and checked the in flight magazine. GPSr is still on the list of approved in flight electronic devices.

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I was randomly(?) pulled out of line for a thorough security check on my return flight from Paris(DeGaul)in February. When they did a search of my carry-on, the GPS aroused suspicion. (No problems when we had departed from Boston, where I also got the full treatment, complete with an inspection of my shoes.) A supervisor was called over, I had to turn the GPS on and then remove the batteries. It was then sealed in a large envelope, I was given a luggage receipt and told I could claim it when we landed in the US.

 

Later, while waiting for boarding, I saw one of the security people deliver the envelope to the American Airlines staff. The fellow who took it had a "What the heck am I supposed to do with this?" look on his face. I quick popped up, went over to the counter and told him that the envelope contained my GPS. He asked me to wait and went down the ramp towards the plane. A couple minutes later he returned with the envelope unsealed and told me the pilot had no problems with me taking the GPS on board.

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You won't have any probs with a GPS going though ATL Hartsfield security.

Security is still a half-(posterior)ed joke.

Most of the security screeners aren't smart enough to get their high school diploma, much less differentiate between a harmless electronic device and a device that iwsn't harmless.

Like when they strip-searched a 5 year old girl yet didn't search the mother at ALL. the rationale used was that "The mother could've hidden something on the child." That's as maybe, but why wasn't the mother searched, then?

Turns out that you get picked out at random based on every n-th # person thru the checkpoint. Security is specifically banned from searching persons of middle eastern appearance.

What a stupid world we live in!

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I haven't taken mine on a plane but some concern might be a digital camera. I use one on the job and a police scanner. If I have the camera turned on it sets off the scanner on one channel. We had a simulated bomb explosion test here once for fire and emergency people and they siad they would take all our scanners and cell phones because of the transmissions. They would have a fight from me. I don't believe in gov't thinking they own my stuff and can take it when they want.

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I just returned from a weekend trip and had no problems with my GPS at several different security checks and used it on the plane successfuly several times (on United). It was nice to figure out where we were and how far we had to go. The first time through security they did not give any special scrutiny to any of my gadgets including GPS, digital camera, and laptop computer.

 

Incidentally I got stuck overnight at O'Hare and decided to place a virtual cache as I was getting a bit bored. So if you are flying United and have some time in Chicago, please check it out. Are there any other caches in airports that people know off?

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I've been through several airports recently with large amounts of consumer electronics (GPSr, digital camera, mobile phone, personal CD player, laptop PC, Palm). I've had my hand luggage searched several times and the only trouble I have ever had was embarrassment trying to get out of Gibraltar when I had to admit: yes I have got two laptops, and getting out of Amman, Jordan two weeks ago when they made me put the 16 AA batteries in my hand luggage in my hold baggage. They didn't take a second look at the GPSr (which contained two AA batteries).

 

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

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