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Pay to Play? I'd like to hear from Jeremy


Guest LindaLu

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Tried to subscribe last night ... paid via the donation button. Money disappeared from my account. Great, I did it.

 

Opps, found out this afternoon that I did it wrong ... this will earn me more points on my village idiot award. Jeremy must be used to working with folks like me ... he automatically refunded my "donation" with an apology for any confusion and included a link to the correct pay button.

 

Yes, I know it's a small thing. But, the small things that occur out of sight of most people demonstrate the most about someone's character. And, it's an example of why I'll trust Jeremy to do what is proper for the sport and for the forum.

 

Jeremy, thank you.

 

Jeepster

Road kill on the information highway ...

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Excellent points on the negative and positive. I did think long and hard about some of this stuff, and will try to respond to several points.

 

Subscription Caches

 

Of the 100+ emails I receive daily, I receive about 20 "new feature" request emails. Consistently I have had folks say that they want subscription style caches. In some regions there are geocachers that have been targeted by folks who abuse the free service and deface their caches. Subscription caches is an extra layer of protection for those who want it.

 

Subscription caches are created and maintained by the geocachers. Not by me. I'm just creating the tools for folks to use if they want. It was not my intent to create Charter Members just to have subscribe only caches. It was just one feature I can use that fits well within the Membership role.

 

I hear you when you say it is the principle of the thing. What is the principle? That you have the right to see caches that people want only folks who take that extra step and pay $3 to see their cache, just to ensure they can keep folks from defecating into their caches? If you have some kind of alternative, let me know. I'm listening.

 

Haves/Have Nots:

 

This idea of elitism is pretty silly. Lets be honest here. $3/month. 3 meals of Ramen. Subscribe for a month and unsubscribe until you get the urge again. What's elitist in that? I'm not making you past a test to get your Geocaching license. We're not voting you into the "club." You can even still play, post in the forums, and go geocaching. You may not be able to download the entire state in one go (a variation of this will be available to subscribers), but you can still download caches. I doubt any newbies would need to download an entire state of geocaches to get started anyway.

 

Will I pay more attention to someone with a membership than someone without one? Probably. I'm human. The thought of someone contributing to keep the servers running makes me want to help them more.

 

Jeremy

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A few years ago it was all "What can I get for FREE???" Now with the dot-com failures, all that free stuff has evaporated. I like geocaching enough to pay a few bucks to see it continue. It has got to be my favorite hobby.

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Jeremy, If you change it to "Jeremy's Kids" I am _so_ outta here. (Sheesh where is that little puking emoticon when you need it). icon_eek.gif

 

 

It was stated that up until now when you posted you were treated equally but now a "geocacher" will not carry the weight of a "charter member".

Nonsense. Forum posters were never treated equally. If you made interesting points with content, people listened. If you posted, "gotta know what party _they_ belonged to ..." or other pointless drivel then people don't.

A name on the left is not going to change anything. A hamster won't be turned into a prince or a toad because they are a "charter member".

 

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Would you pay for an ad-free superbowl? It is part of the game, and it does not really bother me.

 

Well you would have got me on that one except for this past superbowl. Usually I had no real interest in the game and I would be watching the ads marveling at each million dollar minute. Whether in awe at the cinematography/plot or the total waste of $1mil.

But this year, hell froze over and the New England Patriots won the Superbowl. I would have paid big time to watch every second of it without commercials. I'm purchasing the DVD of the entire season this week. And I'm not really a football fan.

Now the Red Sox ... Can hell freeze over twice in one year? Don't put that underwear on Ebay yet Satan.

 

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A poster made a good point, however, that I will add as part of the site. If you prefer not to have the title of Charter Member, you don't have to. You can be anonymous with other "Geocacher" titles. I'll see how soon I can implement this.

 

Sort of like "Anonymous donor." Some people would rather not be labeled. I, however, like my new label.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by madphatboy2:

Alot of us cache as a team (and I refer to family only in this case) but log seperately. Any thoughts on this?

 


 

I'd say, get your Team Account upgraded and just use it when you log into the site to use "new features" or to do a MOC. Otherwise use your own accounts for your own NON-MOC caches.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

You can be anonymous with other "Geocacher" titles.


 

Just a thought.... Being able to edit the words under my user name is worth ten bucks to me.

I don't want to be "geocacher" or "charter member"

 

How about... "Pookie's Pop" in tribute to my daughter? My mind may be twisted but I can be reasonable on occasion.

 

I'm serious, if you change it, I'll PayPal a Hamilton that day.

 

Maybe you could use the polling feature to list the things people would pay extra for. I've got an easy hundred to spend here if you can make it worthwhile.

 

With me it's never been about money. After giving it some long-hard thought (I can't believe how many mental cpu cycles I've wasted on this) I no longer even object to caches that are hidden to non-members.

 

I would like to suggest that the criteria to see these caches be raised to a higher level than just a minor monetary hurdle.

 

How about a test like they give employees to determine if you'll be trustworthy? Couple that with a little name recognition and you might have something that offers some protection against active plunder.

 

I spend more than $30 on ammo at the pistol range so I'll match ClayJar's offer to pay for another that can't afford it.

 

What's more important people, allowing these issues tear the community in half, or getting beyond this?

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

A poster made a good point, however, that I will add as part of the site. If you prefer not to have the title of Charter Member, you don't have to. You can be anonymous with other "Geocacher" titles. I'll see how soon I can implement this.

 

Sort of like "Anonymous donor." Some people would rather not be labeled. I, however, like my new label.

 

Jeremy


 

Thank you!

icon_smile.gif

 

"Listen to the land with your heart, it will speak to your soul." kcd

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Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2: (in part),any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body.

 

Boy, that's a dumb rule. Boo-hoo. I pretty much stopped watching football twenty years ago because a fumble stopped being a fumble and "forward motion" became part of the game. No, if you were able to pick up Johnny Unitas and place him and the ball in your end zone that meant your team got some points.

 

But I digress. Yeah, dumb rule. Change it and while you are at it hang that kid who caught that "home run" at Yankee stadium up by the thumbs. Oh and wait, call interference on the catcher by Chris Chambliss in the 1975 World Series. Pudge Fisk will thank you.

 

[Warning, post is heavily laden with sarcasm].

 

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quote:
Originally posted by exConn:

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Thomason (Brokenwing):

Any possiblity of the rest of us being able to change our own forum title to what ever we want?


Love this idea. icon_cool.gif

 

Seems like a good compromise for those who have expressed that they are willing to pay, but are hung up on the "title" thing...

 

-exConn


 

Actually I like this idea better. You can always make your title "Geocacher" if you like to match a non charter member.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by kablooey:

 

Hmm, I'm not sure where you're buying your Ramen. It's 12/$1 here, unless you wait for it to go on sale at 15/$1.

 

That aside, thanks for your explanation on the Subscriber caches.


 

Sorry. I was thinking about the bowls of Kimchi Ramen. The original Ramen is way to bland. Just kicking it up a notch.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by ClayJar:

 

I believe in this community enough that, if someone does show me a cacher who really *can't* afford a membership, I will personally pay for a year of theirs. I can't say that I'll pay for *all* people who can't afford it, but I'll pay for one. I believe in the people here, and I'll back that up. If anyone else wants to join me in this, post away.

-NK/ClayJar


 

I am a newbie and also believe in what is going on here. Jeremy has spent enough of his time and money on this project and deserves some help. I will be sending in my check as I do not like paying over the internet. I am not a wealthy person by any stretch of the imagination BUT I will also help one person who would otherwise not be able to join.

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SOmewhere back up htere amongst the posts, there was one that states how I feel. I feel very, very strongly against members only caches. I may not mind paying the money, but I seriously disagree with members only caches. In fact I will pay the money(maybe not htis month, but sometime soon). I hope that we will then be allowed to vote for no MOcaches.. - The Real DesertRat

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I am sorry if anything I have said in this forum or in another has made anyone mad. Jeremy, I really respect what you are doing, and I hope someday maybe you seek a cache of mine. Till then, I will send my $30 in, even if its not right away. I realize that it is slightly ignorant for us to say that there are plenty of ways for you to support the sight, and I am sorry if I have offended you. I read a post that suggested lowering the amount, would this be possible, does it really have to be $30?? - The Real DesertRat

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quote:
Originally posted by Choberiba:

 

Where did you find them Kablooey? I didn't see a search function with this option.


I was wondering how to do this as well.

 

The way I found them was by painstakingly clicking on each state (since they show the most recent caches) and found a couple (didn't care to find them all, just wanted to see how they showed up in the listings).

 

Didn't see nothing special, I think people are just trying the mocache idea out to see what it looks like...

 

-exConn

 

What is Project Virginia?

 

[This message was edited by exConn on March 08, 2002 at 01:05 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:I read a post that suggested lowering the amount, would this be possible, does it really have to be $30?? - The Real DesertRat

 

You're kidding, right? It's $3/month. If you can't pay $3 how are you reading these forums? It's $30/year. You don't have to pay an annual subscription up front.

 

Jeremy icon_confused.gif

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I support what you have done. But the more I am reading form other cachers,it seems that it is truning into a huge overgrowth of negativity. The NPS has already issued complaints about us, and with all of us feuding like this the site may not be around much longer anyway. We need to relax, and learn to discuss things. Why is it obsurd to ask why you have arrived at $30. If you are questioning it, where are your motives. Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to insult you. I just want to figure out how you arrived at the amount you did. It is only $25 to join REI for a lifetime. Would that be a possibilty, there are enough new members all the time to support that. I can't imagine that it would cost that much to support the site.?? At that point, you could probably have everyone that wants to seek caches join, you wouldn't have to limit it to the few people taht want to hunt MOC's. I think that would be a better idea, what does everyone else think???

- The Real DesertRat

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quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:

I just want to figure out how you arrived at the amount you did...


 

As I said on another thread, what makes you think we have the right to ask Jeremy this? Is he a not-for-profit organization that requires us to be watchdogs? Is he a public utility with profit caps?

 

No! Its a DOT-COM site, that means its commercial. He sets a price that he feels the market will bear. Now he sees if he was right or not. If any one of us feel its out of line, then don't pay it.

 

Member:

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First of all I applaud Jeremy for his vision and enterprise. Congratulations on what I consider to be the finest website ever.

 

As a currently non-paying (non-charter) member I have a few minor concerns about the new pay-to-play system.

 

It creates a dividing line in the geocaching community. The elite and the petite, the haves and the have-nots, the feudal lords and the lowly serfs. You can already see the line forming. In these forums people are voicing their opinions long and loud.

 

Will I pay? What are my benefits if I do? I get to hunt member-only caches. How many member-only caches are there? I just read a post by a charter-member stating that he will not create member-only caches because he wants as wide an audience as possible. Is this the typical charter-member attitude? I don't know. I can only speak for myself. I know that if/when I fork out my moolah I'm going to convert all my caches to member-only. I will prefer to hunt member-only caches over "regular" caches.

 

Basically what I'm saying is what good is the charter-membership unless you use it to it's full advantage. I'm betting that the pool of high-quality free caches will dwindle. Why would you pay for a membership and then keep on placing free non-member caches? You could do that without paying. Why post a free cache that could potentially be vandalized when you could post a member-only cache that only paying-members will be able to hunt? Do you see what I'm saying?

 

All of the sudden there are two classes of geocachers. The ones who pay will create pay caches and hunt pay caches. The pay caches will be as vandal-proof as they can be, they will be high-quality since only charter members will visit them. Free caches will be visible to any dill-hole who frequents geocaching.com. Any moron with a GPS can hunt one. Cache quality may start high but will inevitably decline as more and more first-timers with their McToy toting kids find them. So, what incentive does a charter-member have for placing any kind of cache other than a member-only cache? Only the assurance that more people can visit the cache. Is that a good thing?

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Is your main purpose in life to be annoying? Once again was I talking to you. I was asking ( if you would care to answer) how people would feel about a lifetime fee where everyone would pay. There are enough new users to support this, and being one amount rather than more every year, would probably appeal to everyone, not just a few. Mister cow, please don't direct your messages to me anymore, I am tired of your condescending attitude. Thankyou. - The Real DesertRat

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I posted this as a reply to another thread, but before I had my reply completed, Jeremy closed that thread! How did you know what I was writing, Jeremy? icon_confused.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by Kodak's4:

Do it. Go build a website, publicize it, promote it. Go buy a bunch of servers, go buy the bandwidth.

 

Don't whine about it. Do it.

 

And when you've done it, tell us how much it cost.

I really want to know. Don't forget to tell us how many hundreds of hours you put in to get it all running, too.

 

-Paul


 

But this is already done. There is the navicache on the net.

 

So, if somebody is uncomfortable about the idea of paying, don't pay. If you like paying, pay. If you don't like beeing around payers, go to navicaching. Or do classical orienteering competitions. It has a lot of similarities, except that GPS units are banned! (It will automatically teach you how to cope when the GPS breaks down, though!) icon_wink.gif

 

If you like placing caches more than finding them, then organize orienteering meets. It's a lot of work, too, so it will keep you busy for a while. I've been doing this since 1972, so I know pretty well.

 

It seems to me that A LOT of energy has gone into debating if some members-only caches would deduct a significant amount of fun from this game. If all that energy had been spent placing (free) caches, there would have been a significant increase in the number of caches available. Which would put even more load on Jeremy's servers, ironically enough, since that's what started the whole riot. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Anders

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quote:
Originally posted by jfitzpat:

I'm starting to take this rabid hamster thing personally. I'm wondering if I should adopt a 'signature item' of a handful of yuck from the bottom of Ratikate and Gentle Ben's cage until mesocricetus auratus, phodopus sungoris sungoris, and their related brethren get more respect...


 

Oh jfitzpat... that wasn't directed at you. To be honest, I was acting as a RH myself, not having figured out that there were more than one page of posts to this thread (I totally missed the numbers at the top and bottom of the page, being a creature of habit). I hadn't even read your post (yet)!

 

Rabid Hamster is a term (coined, I believe, by THE Choberiba, who is always surprised when he or one of his sock puppets is quoted) and I use it whenever I think Chobe may read one of my posts just to see if I can get a rise out of him, a hobby/sport unto itself.

 

I have always read your posts thoroughly (when I know that they exist) and consider you an experienced and thoughtful poster to these forums. I would never consider you an RH.

 

Now, everything else I wrote in that post was dead on! (*chokes*)icon_wink.gif

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

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quote:
Originally posted by RedwoodRed:

...Now, everything else I wrote in that post was dead on! (*chokes*);)

----------

...


 

Well you finally messed up icon_biggrin.gif .... you posted a picture .... I'm impressed ... since you were being so secretive ... I thought you might have horns or a beard ... but all the time you're a nice looking lady ... well my offer still stands ... who took the picture? Email me with an address and I'll send the Team Hawk-eye key ring I offered earlier this year!

 

348_1002.gif

 

[This message was edited by Hawk-eye on March 08, 2002 at 03:52 AM.]

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I have GOT to know where this picture is Red. Don't worry, I'm not a stalker. I just want to see if my mental picture of you is accurate. I have a mental picture for most of the regular forum users and I'm usually way off.

 

You didn't delete it did you?

 

geosign.gif

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I the thread I started, which I would like to add has been now LOCKED...which really makes me wonder if things are on the Up and Up. Anyway back to what my whole point was and still is.

 

I have NO problem helping the site, my problem comes with "Membership Only" caches..

 

For those who said I was a TROLL...Hello....I have hidden 4 caches myself, found over 70 crossing 6 states, and even drove all night to find some out of state caches.

 

Have you noticed how those who have paid seem they must defend themself? It is as if a light bulb went on and they refuse to see the light so they insist it is dark and even completely disregard the original meaning of the thread.

 

If the "Members Only" cache was not available...I would Have NO problems what-so-ever.

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I get suspicious whenever money is involved. I assume others feel the same way. In order to alleviate that feeling, and reduce the squawking,I recommend Jeremy you take a position as follows. (I apologize if you have already, I may have missed it in the threads).

 

Will this become a commercial site in which you profit or not? If not, then all income and expenses should be listed on a regular basis. Not revealing that, then we should all assume you have made this a commercial site and we, your customers, will know this and underdstand that we are paying for a commercial service. We can than decide if we want to pay or not but either way the udnerlying suspicion of what's really going on here with the money will be eliminated.

 

I believe that if its the former, and you regularly post an "income statement", most of the complaints I'm reading other than discussion of the format will disappear.

 

By the way I take no position on the way you should go. Cerainly you've earned the right to decide. You've more than paid your dues and if you feel you want to make something on it now because of the time and effort, well it's a free country. (Sorry my overseas friends). However, if you don't and you want to continue this as a "labor of love", than posting an income statement, like any non-profit organization is just the right thing to do.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Thank you.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:

Have you noticed how those who have paid seem they must defend themself?


 

No, I haven't noticed that. I myself haven't paid...but I still find myself steamed by seeing so many people whining about "having to pay". No one is being forced to pay! And if you don't pay, you aren't losing anything that you previously had access to. Nothing is being taken away from you. The people who pay are simply getting something new and extra. What's so bad about that???

 

I haven't noticed people trying to "defend themselves", but rather stating their confusion at what you are so upset about.

 

quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:

[They] completely disregard the original meaning of the thread.

 

If the "Members Only" cache was not available...I would Have NO problems what-so-ever.


 

How will it help you if they remove the ability for people to hide mocaches? If someone's not comfortable having a publicly exposed cache, they simply won't hide one...as has currently been the case. Allowing mocaches means there will be additional caches out there. It's not likely any current caches will be converted over (unless a person or area is having trouble with stolen or vandalized caches...in which case I would hope that even you would empathize with them not wanting to donate their work and investment into placing a cache just to have a vandal ruin it).

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Here is a question for all of you.

 

What about Travel Bugs...remember we already paid for them. If someone would place them into a "Members only" cache it would hamper the whole Travel Bug idea. I hope to have some travel around the US and then maybe pick it up someday...how would I do that if it is inside a "member only" cach? O wait I would have to pay to get it, even though I already paid for it.

 

Some say this is something small, but if you really are worried about the safty of your cache...there are other ways to protect it. Recently a lot of caches have been blown up by bomb squads. Some squads are leraning og geocaching....yet since I would assume they will not pay...it just might be your "Members only" cache that they find and blow it up because they can not find it listed here.

 

Again I just have the problem of "members only"caches

 

Now before anyone says how can you protect your cache.....Look below

 

Just like in Virtual caches where a cacher needs to contact the person who hid the cache to log their find. I say why not have the finder contact the person before they set out to find the cache. Then on the cache a LOCK can be put(combination type and secured to the location) but the finder would have the combination because in the contact the HIDER would have e-mailed then the #'s. This way if anything would happen to the cache the owner would know who has the #'s. Then the owner would just not give the numbers out to that cache who plundered it....This is something I have thought of for a muti-cache...where each phase of the cache has another combination #.

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quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:

 

What about Travel Bugs...remember we already paid for them. If someone would place them into a "Members only" cache it would hamper the whole Travel Bug idea.


 

Not true. The travel bug owner will see that it is in a member's only cache and who hid it there. If they wish to email that person they can do so and ask them to remove it from that cache. The name of the cache will be available. Just not the coordinates.

 

quote:

Then on the cache a LOCK can be put(combination type and secured to the location) but the finder would have the combination because in the contact the HIDER would have e-mailed then the #'s.


 

This has happened on several occasions already. The result in two cases was that someone repeatedly beat the lock with a hard instrument before opening it, and the other used a lever to pry open the cache. The first was done by a non geocacher, but the second was done by a frustrated geocacher who located the cache but didn't know how to decipher the combo (encrypted in the hints).

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:

I the thread I started, which I would like to add has been now LOCKED...which really makes me wonder if things are on the Up and Up.

 


 

You're absolutely right. It's a conspiracy. Soon the black helicopters will be deleting your post too. Make sure you're wearing an aluminum foil helmet to keep the aliens from reading your mind.

 

quote:

Anyway back to what my whole point was and still is.

 

I have NO problem helping the site, my problem comes with "Membership Only" caches..


 

Fine. Don't use them. It is a cache owner's decision whether to use it or not.

 

quote:

Have you noticed how those who have paid seem they must defend themself? It is as if a light bulb went on and they refuse...


 

Pot meet kettle. You seem to be doing an awful lot of defending your position. Seems like a flawed argument.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Not true. The travel bug owner will see that it is in a member's only cache and who hid it there. If they wish to email that person they can do so and ask them to remove it from that cache. The name of the cache will be available. Just not the coordinates.


 

I must admit I was wondering about this. Thanks for the clarification Jeremy.

 

"Listen to the land with your heart, it will speak to your soul." kcd

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

 

Will this become a commercial site in which you profit or not? If not, then all income and expenses should be listed on a regular basis

 


 

Grounded, Inc. (Groundspeak) is a commercial entity. It always has been. I don't think I've been fooling anyone here.

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quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:

Is your main purpose in life to be annoying?


 

I'd have to ask the same thing about you. *Would you mind keeping the personal affronts to a minimum? It doesn't exactly create a good environment for a debate.

 

quote:
I was asking ( if you would care to answer) how people would feel about a lifetime fee where everyone would pay.


 

Am I reading this right? Are you suggesting everyone "pay to play?"

 

quote:

Mister cow, please don't direct your messages to me anymore, I am tired of your condescending attitude. Thankyou. - The Real DesertRat


 

"Mister cow." And that isn't condescending? Pot meet kettle.

 

Jeremy

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quote:

Grounded, Inc. (Groundspeak) is a commercial entity. It always has been. I don't think I've been fooling anyone here.


 

Jeremy, you may not have been intentionally fooling anyone here --- but certainly some people have been confused about your motives and some will be surprised to see your acknowledgment that this is a for profit business. This is in part by the way you have presented your motives:

 

Here are some quotes from your site:

 

"Geocaching.com was created with the sole purpose to promote the new sport of Geocaching."

 

"Any advertising dollars on the web site go to help fund the equipment and bandwidth to support the site, as well as promote the overall sport."

 

"To keep up with the cost of bandwidth, machine upgrades and maintainence, and maintain our inventory of frozen burritos and Eazy Cheese, we need to move to a subscription basis for newer features for the web site. Ultimately it benefits you since we can better provide new ideas and features to improve the Geocaching experience. "

 

Don't you agree that by reading information like this it is understandable that people may have gotten the impression that this is a "non-profit" endeavor of yours?

 

I don't need to tell you that you have done an amazing job here. I am sure it will be commercial success - you deserve it and it will be the best way to keep Geocaching alive and well.

 

But please... make sure that people are not confused as to what type of site this is... I have a feeling that your ethics would not allow you to knowingly do this.

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FWIW, we have read those same statements, and personally do not find any of Jeremy's recent changes, statements, or actions to be in conflict. We had never read into those statements that geocaching.com and/or Groundspeak was non-profit.

 

The nuances of the English language I guess...

 

Member:

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Sir, with all due respect, I thankyou for what you have done for geocaching. I am suggesting that everyone pay, but in one nominal fee, not a yearly membership. The yearly membership would be a good idea to those who have money, and would like to make you some. As to the ,"hello Cow," if you have ever been in any other chat anywhere(i.e. MIRC) when you don't feel like typing out a person's full nickname, generally it has been accepted to type part of it. People call me rat, and I don't get mad, in fact some of my friends(IRL) use that more than my real name.If Mr.cachecow was offended I am sure he will probably let me know, he always has before, even when it had nothing to do with him.

Back to the money issue. I have no problem paying the money. What I am against is what seems to be remiscent of a Jr High clique. You can't hunt this cache unless you pay money. If people really wanted to pursue this, they wouldn't have to be members. I could just put up a cache that would nescesitate a monetary contribution to Grounspeak. There is another site up for geocaching, which is offering all of their sevices free. Granted, it is not as big as GeoCaching.com, but it very well might get that big. For those of you who wonder, check it out. Www.Navicache.com. Jeremy, I have been offended by you, and mister cachecow. I have already apologized for the things I have said that were rude, and the things that were taken as rude, but you are the one not dropping the issue. I have apologized, what more are you asking for. Like I said in a previous post, the NPS has already voiced objections to geocachers. I know this because my girlfriend's father works for the park service. If we want to continue this sport, we need to work together, so everyone is heard, and everyone feels happy about what is going on.

There was one point about 2 weeks ago when I would have mailed you a check for a couple of hundred bucks (that is if I had it right now), but at this point I am trying to convince myself that this site is still a worthy cause. I am really resentful of those of you who took my opinion and outright persocuted me. Thankyou for your time. I am really not trying to be rude, I just feel that the MOC's are not a step in the right direction.

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I've been following the forums quite closely in the last few days and I've not seen too many people "outraged" over Jeremy's apparent decision to change Geocaching from a hobby to a business. I][/i]nullI've seen healthy response from his prospective customers commenting on new features that they think may negatively affect the site. Jeremy's business success depends on this feedback so he can develop the most attractive product possible and ensure that his customer base grows. I think the business model is much better for the sport and is going to bring much better features as it has already done. -seneca

 

[This message was edited by TheRealDesertRat on March 08, 2002 at 10:04 AM.][

 

[This message was edited by TheRealDesertRat on March 08, 2002 at 10:07 AM.]

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