New Cache Concept: Time Limited Wireless Web Enabled Cache

[rich42]

I'm working on a new multicache in the Seattle area which I believe is the first of it's kind. It utilizes Web Enabled Cell phones to enforce a time limit on getting from one waypoint to the next.

 

Example:

Waypoint 1 (Coordinates published at geocaching.com)

 

After getting to the waypoint - user logs on to Wireless Website, and answers a question about their surroundings. If they answer correctly, they are issued a user ID, and given the coordinates to the next waypoint. They are told they have X minutes to get there.

 

Waypoint 2

 

User logs on to the Wireless Website again, enters their user ID. If more than 15 minutes have passed - they're told "sorry - looks like your best wasn't good enough - try again" Otherwise, They are again asked a question about their surroundings. If they answer correctly - they are given the coordinates to the third and final waypoint. Would even be possible to tell them how much time they had left (or how much they missed it by) and their average speed.

 

I'm obviously going to have to do some web development to make this all work - but it shouldn't be all that tough.

 

There's a couple ways you could cheat - but I've got some ideas that would make it not worth the effort.

 

There's a few limitations - obviously users would have to have web enabled phones, and be in reception area. Also a bummer that some users might have good reception at a cache - while others wouldn't - with no way to tell for sure ahead of time.

 

My first cache of this type will be pretty simple - basically a proof of concept. Just have to traverse a mile in under a certain reasonable time - you'll have to at least speedwalk though - a stroll won't do it.

 

The next level would be more like "can you make it to the top of Mount Si in under 2 hours"?

 

I'm hoping to have it online in the next few days (it's already planted - just have to make the "backend" work)

 

Might even be possible to have a loser's cache - for those who couldn't quite cut it, and a seperate elite winner's cache.

 

Anyone else doing anything like this? Does it sound like fun? Any thoughts?

[+pizzachef]

It'd take me 15 minutes to type in the dadgum web address on that little keypad. Otherwise it's a neat idea. You sure are limiting it to select few people though...most people probably don't even know how to use the web on their phone...although, I think if you can figure out how to use a gps, you can learn to use the minibrowser on your phone.

 

I was thinking of something similar, it just wouldn't be time-limited...where the initial waypoints are published, then you have to answer a question (maybe historical) about your surroundings, and pick the answer from a list on the cache description. Each answer has coords next to it. I was thinking four legs and like 15-20 answers to pick from?? Most would be bogus and might drive people up the wall if they got the wrong answer, but that's what 5 star difficulty is for!!

 

-pizzachef

[+pizzachef]

It'd take me 15 minutes to type in the dadgum web address on that little keypad. Otherwise it's a neat idea. You sure are limiting it to select few people though...most people probably don't even know how to use the web on their phone...although, I think if you can figure out how to use a gps, you can learn to use the minibrowser on your phone.

 

I was thinking of something similar, it just wouldn't be time-limited...where the initial waypoints are published, then you have to answer a question (maybe historical) about your surroundings, and pick the answer from a list on the cache description. Each answer has coords next to it. I was thinking four legs and like 15-20 answers to pick from?? Most would be bogus and might drive people up the wall if they got the wrong answer, but that's what 5 star difficulty is for!!

 

-pizzachef

[kenkl]

Couple of thoughts...

 

First, you mention having a userid at the wireless website to check in at the first checkpoint. I'd be careful about what requirements for the creation of that account you impose. I, for one, would not be terribly happy about having to provide any personal information to search for a cache this way.

 

Second... Maybe it's just because I don't have a phone with wireless web, but I'd feel a bit shut out for not choosing the "right" phone to do this. In my case, I'm on a GSM network with a Nokia 8290. I could do this with SMS or some other form of email-based text messaging, but WAP is out for me. Obviously, I could do some kind of WAP with a Palm device (via the IR port on the phone), but that increases the complexity of searching the cache by quite a lot. Perhaps this could be done with an email-based system. That would allow more devices to be used to participate in this.

 

Third.. Even assuming that wireless web is available on the phone, there is usually some charge for WAP use on the network. Sometimes, it's non-trivial - Sprint, I believe, charges as much as $0.69/min for Wireless Web access. The same may hold true for an email based system, but it probably would not be quite as bad.

 

I think it all works out to be the non-inclusive nature of the hunt. It assumes a level of technology that isn't normally required for a cache-hunt. That, in itself, is not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think the infrastructure has caught up enough to make this as easy or inexpensive as it needs to be.

 

Also, I gather that this is an urban cache, which can be tricky. I, for one would be a bit irritated if I'd paid the wireless fees to chase after a cache that some homeless person (or other non-player) had removed.

 

All that said, a time-limited cache is a fine idea, and I think that given the right implementation, could be a lot of fun. If you decide to proceed, I'd be interested to know how it turns out with the wireless web elements.

[rich42]

> First, you mention having a userid...not be terribly happy about having to provide any personal information to search for a cache this way.

 

To clarify - the User ID would just be a number with no associated password - not even tied to your real geocaching user name - it's just so the web site can confirm whether or not you made it to the waypoint in time.

 

> I think it all works out to be the non-inclusive nature of the hunt. It assumes a level of technology that isn't normally required for a cache-hunt...

 

Not actually that big a fan of wireless web stuff - mainly I thought doing a time limited cache would be really cool - and then started trying to figure out how to implement it. I came up with a couple ideas - but using web enabled phones was the only one that seemed reasonably easy to implement.

 

I kind of see it along the lines of a cache that requires "special equipment" - ie a boat, snow shoes, etc - and would logically have a higher difficulty rating.

 

The cache is urban (at least this one) - mainly because this is experimental at this point and I didn't want to send anyone up a mountain and then have it not work. Also wanted to be somewhat sure of cell phone reception. It is well hidden though.

 

Coding away on the cache...

[+Dan_Edwards]

At one point I thought about doing a timed cache hunt. My thoughts at that time were to build a inexpensive timer that gave a coded number at the first cache, and the second cache would have a similar coded timer at the second cache. You would then enter these times in your log for the cache and then I would decode them. The advantage being that I could hide them in remote areas where they would not be likely to disapear, and be far away from cell signals.

 

At the time I had a lot of free time, but now that is taken up with Geocaching for the summer. Maybe this winter.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

If this is in an urban setting - what if you included someplace with public Internet access such as a library or cybercafe? You could post coordinates for these, or just allow the searcher to find one. This way you could keep the time limit without excluding anyone. Of course, this would work in an urban setting.

 

I'm trying to work out a way to do this using RSA SecurID cards - that would be totally James Bond!

[+parkrrrr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Edwards:

At one point I thought about doing a timed cache hunt. My thoughts at that time were to build a inexpensive timer that gave a coded number at the first cache, and the second cache would have a similar coded timer at the second cache.

---

 

If you're going to go to that kind of trouble, why not have that timer at the first cache and another black box with a keypad at the second cache: enter the number you got from the first cache and if it's a number that should have been on the first timer's display within the last minutes, the second box displays the coords of a third cache. You could even somewhat frustrate cheaters (for example, someone with a friend with a radio or cell phone at the first site relaying the number to him at the second site) by excluding numbers that would have appeared less than minutes ago, where is the minimum time it should take to get from point A to point B.

 

Of course, anything like this would definitely have to be in the most remote location you can imagine. Consider the average person's reaction to a black box with a digital display and a keypad in an urban setting, whether or not it appears to be attached to a bunch of red sticks or bottles of some ominous-looking liquid.

 

[rich42]

The idea of somehow using RSA Securid keys or encoded timers came to me also.

 

In order to make the whole thing work offline - I think you'd end up having to custom engineer some hardware (not impossible - but certainly tougher than the software I'm working on for this cache).

 

Maybe it could be done by programming some cheap (used) PDA's.

 

Other downside - a constantly changing LCD number inside a mysterious box found someplace would certainly give the bomb squad an excuse if they needed one...

[rich42]

Hasn't been approved yet:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=25645

[rich42]

had a successful find:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=25645

[+Team OUTSID4EVR]

Cool concept! These are the kind of caches we love finding!

[+Prime Suspect]

We've already had a couple of timed caches in the Dallas area. Once used a voice mail system and the other used stop watches and the honor system. You will probably need to be logged in to view these.