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Do Religion and Politics belong in caches?


Guest brownbag
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Guest brownbag

I will preface this by saying I live in Utah. We have a separation between Church and State here. Two blocks. (rimshot.) That is the distance between the Capitol and the Church Office Building. (bada bing.) In the last two weeks I have come upon two caches with copies of the Book of Mormon in them with sections highlighted and a way to contact the person who placed it if I want to know more about the religion.

 

Am I out of line thinking this doesn't belong here? I don't want to see literature from the Animal Liberation Front, PETA, MADD, Jehovah's Witnesses, NRA, etc. in a cache. I believe that this is a hobby that does not need to be soiled by people trying to push a political or religious agenda with the items they put in a cache.

 

Here in our "Pretty Great State" we can get stuck in the trees and never see the forest. I'd like to know what people in the real world think. Not about Utah (I already know about that), but about using caches to promote a religious or political cause.

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Guest tslack2000

I live in Utah and have visited at least one of the caches you are referring to (Lost Gulley) and I also read the log you posted for it. When I saw the book in the cache I kind of chuckled to myself, because I knew that one day I would run across one in a cache. (It's inevitable...we live in Utah! icon_biggrin.gif ) But, instead of looking at it as someone trying to push their beliefs on me (religious, political or otherwise), I looked at it as if it were any other item in the cache. There are a lot of things that people put in caches that I don't want to trade for. So I don't. I take something that's interesting to me. And in turn, I put something in the cache that I find interesting. That doesn't mean that everyone else will think the item I placed in the cache is interesting. Geocachers are allowed to take an item as long as they leave an item. It shouldn't matter what they leave. That's part of what makes finding a cache fun for me. I don't think you're necessarily out of line for not wanting to see certain things in caches. But, as for me, I'm much more upset at the people who put their "junk drawer" in the cache. That "soils" the caches much more than any literature could.

 

[This message has been edited by tslack2000 (edited 24 June 2001).]

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Guest tslack2000

I live in Utah and have visited at least one of the caches you are referring to (Lost Gulley) and I also read the log you posted for it. When I saw the book in the cache I kind of chuckled to myself, because I knew that one day I would run across one in a cache. (It's inevitable...we live in Utah! icon_biggrin.gif ) But, instead of looking at it as someone trying to push their beliefs on me (religious, political or otherwise), I looked at it as if it were any other item in the cache. There are a lot of things that people put in caches that I don't want to trade for. So I don't. I take something that's interesting to me. And in turn, I put something in the cache that I find interesting. That doesn't mean that everyone else will think the item I placed in the cache is interesting. Geocachers are allowed to take an item as long as they leave an item. It shouldn't matter what they leave. That's part of what makes finding a cache fun for me. I don't think you're necessarily out of line for not wanting to see certain things in caches. But, as for me, I'm much more upset at the people who put their "junk drawer" in the cache. That "soils" the caches much more than any literature could.

 

[This message has been edited by tslack2000 (edited 24 June 2001).]

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Guest Hard Slate

Good point tslack,but I still stand with a firm no.I also don't agree with the 'adult' caches, it seems that the kids enjoy what's in the cache more than the adults do.So, keep it clean, keep it family oriented, and above all keep it nonpolitical! icon_smile.gif-Hard Slate

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Guest Hard Slate

Good point tslack,but I still stand with a firm no.I also don't agree with the 'adult' caches, it seems that the kids enjoy what's in the cache more than the adults do.So, keep it clean, keep it family oriented, and above all keep it nonpolitical! icon_smile.gif-Hard Slate

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Guest brownbag

I agree that we seem to have only one misguided sole who does his missionary obligation by putting BOM's in caches. That is something that I should probably just ignore. However, it did get me thinking of the larger meta issue. I'm involved in another Internet hobby and we constantly have problems with people thinking that they can use the platform as a place to push their personal issues with people.

 

Is this something happening elsewhere, and if so where is the line.

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Guest bunkerdave

I know that the guy who (indirectly) introduced me to the game placed a cache with a Book of Mormon in it. As far as placing this, ot any other item, in a cache, it is ultimately up to the owner. Some things are in poor taste, but other than some obvious items, such as drugs, cigarettes, and pornography, it is difficult to say what does/does not belong in a cache. If finding religious/political materials in a cache offends you, then you might want to thicken up your skin a bit. If that is the "most offensive" thing you ever come across, consider yourself lucky.

 

In brief, I think complaining about religious and political materials in a cache is being petty. It's a public game, played on public land. Why should it be any different than the billboards you see on the freeway? Some of those offend ME.

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Guest Hard Slate

I rank that on a similar level with handing out business card while on vacation.Just don't.

 

I think you're right though,if that IS the most offensive thing I find in a cache, I'm lucky.But doesnt that open the door for 'all'types of religious propaganda?

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Guest brownbag

de virtually no Utahns) really struggle to keep politics and religion out of it.

 

BTW: I drive from Provo to Ogden every day. I'd love to know which of those Billboards you find offensive icon_wink.gif

 

[This message has been edited by brownbag (edited 25 June 2001).]

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Guest brownbag

de virtually no Utahns) really struggle to keep politics and religion out of it.

 

BTW: I drive from Provo to Ogden every day. I'd love to know which of those Billboards you find offensive icon_wink.gif

 

[This message has been edited by brownbag (edited 25 June 2001).]

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Guest Cobalt

BTW: I drive from Provo to Ogden every day. I'd love to know which of those Billboards you find offensive icon_wink.gif

 

"I get gas at Guad's" Just kidding, I think that one is hilarious. The one that bugs me is the ad. for Khaki pants that says, save $999,950. Like I would spend $50 on Khaki pants.

 

I think that placing political or religious materials into a cache is definately in bad taste and I wouldn't do it myself. Ultimately, it comes down to a question of law as to whether a line should be drawn in the sand. Jeremy has said he doesn't want sexually explicit caches or caches with tobacco or alcohol in them. This is because the law places an age limit on the purchase and possession of these things. Although he probably would agree that religious or political materials in caches is in poor taste I doubt we'll ever see an edict coming from him concerning the matter because it is a matter of propriety and not law.

 

Also I may live in Utah, but I was raised in California. This is the danger in generalizing a whole state's populace, they don't always fit in. I definately consider myself in touch with the "real world"

 

Maybe we can all talk about it at the get-together next month, I would enjoy that.

 

-Cobalt

 

[This message has been edited by Cobalt (edited 25 June 2001).]

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Guest Cobalt

BTW: I drive from Provo to Ogden every day. I'd love to know which of those Billboards you find offensive icon_wink.gif

 

"I get gas at Guad's" Just kidding, I think that one is hilarious. The one that bugs me is the ad. for Khaki pants that says, save $999,950. Like I would spend $50 on Khaki pants.

 

I think that placing political or religious materials into a cache is definately in bad taste and I wouldn't do it myself. Ultimately, it comes down to a question of law as to whether a line should be drawn in the sand. Jeremy has said he doesn't want sexually explicit caches or caches with tobacco or alcohol in them. This is because the law places an age limit on the purchase and possession of these things. Although he probably would agree that religious or political materials in caches is in poor taste I doubt we'll ever see an edict coming from him concerning the matter because it is a matter of propriety and not law.

 

Also I may live in Utah, but I was raised in California. This is the danger in generalizing a whole state's populace, they don't always fit in. I definately consider myself in touch with the "real world"

 

Maybe we can all talk about it at the get-together next month, I would enjoy that.

 

-Cobalt

 

[This message has been edited by Cobalt (edited 25 June 2001).]

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Guest Lazyboy

Out here in Oregon we get some religious literature in caches. From what I have seen, few take it and none comment on it. For me it's another non-issue. If someone wants to count their missionary time, well it's between him and HIM.

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Guest jeremy

Has it really been a big issue? I don't remember seeing any religious or political material in any caches I've found yet. I'd sort of assume if you were in Utah you'd see a BOM in there somewhere.

 

My opinion on religion and politics aside, it seems like something that should just be tolerated. If you don't like it, remove the BOM and replace it with a Pez dispenser.

 

tn10583.jpgtn09769.jpg

 

When it comes with pornography and illegal items like fireworks, it's easy to draw the line. With political and religious agendas, it's a free country, I guess. I'd personally just push it aside and go for the Smurf air freshener or one of these.

 

Jeremy

 

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 25 June 2001).]

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I would say that you shouldn't put religious of political material in a cache but it does seem a bit tacky to me. Geocaching is such a fun and little hearted activity it seems like it would be a bit of a shame to weigh down the activity with such quarrelsome subjects like religion and politics. Just my two cents.

 

mcb

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Guest PneumaticDeath

Each person has a different opinion about what is acceptable. I have a friend who wanted to make a cache with a few copies of all the weird religious brochures she'd ever gotten, not because she believed in any of them, but becuase she found them hilarious. I mentioned to her that not everybody shares her sense of humor, but later I realized that there are a lot of people who do, and they might enjoy this cache. (We're in California, and wacky religions are pretty common around here) Best to clearly mention the contents in the description tho...

 

I am a ham operator (KB6HNH), and there's this unwritten rule among hams that when you're talking to somebody you don't know, you should stay away from any controversial subjects (like religion, politics. childrearing, etc.) The problem is, that only leaves:

  • How big/high/fancy is your antenna? (read those however you like icon_biggrin.gif)
  • How many watts are you running?
  • Where are you?
  • Whats the weather like there?

 

All in all, doesn't make for scintilating conversation. I've decided that if you go through life trying to avoid offending anybody, then you aren't going to get much done.

 

-- Mitch

 

[This message has been edited by PneumaticDeath (edited 25 June 2001).]

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Guest PneumaticDeath

Each person has a different opinion about what is acceptable. I have a friend who wanted to make a cache with a few copies of all the weird religious brochures she'd ever gotten, not because she believed in any of them, but becuase she found them hilarious. I mentioned to her that not everybody shares her sense of humor, but later I realized that there are a lot of people who do, and they might enjoy this cache. (We're in California, and wacky religions are pretty common around here) Best to clearly mention the contents in the description tho...

 

I am a ham operator (KB6HNH), and there's this unwritten rule among hams that when you're talking to somebody you don't know, you should stay away from any controversial subjects (like religion, politics. childrearing, etc.) The problem is, that only leaves:

  • How big/high/fancy is your antenna? (read those however you like icon_biggrin.gif)
  • How many watts are you running?
  • Where are you?
  • Whats the weather like there?

 

All in all, doesn't make for scintilating conversation. I've decided that if you go through life trying to avoid offending anybody, then you aren't going to get much done.

 

-- Mitch

 

[This message has been edited by PneumaticDeath (edited 25 June 2001).]

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Guest Mike_Teague

I used to put various ammo in caches (universal stuff like .223 and 9mm).. As well as fireworks (which ARE legal in this part of the state, Jeremy), and firestarter (trioxane)... In at least 1 case, having a stick of trioxane in a cache that I knew was only about a half mile down a nearby road has made an otherwise unfortunate camping trip into an enjoyable one by allowing us to light a fire in the rain and cook our dinner..

 

I tend to like useful (even if cheap) items in caches, myself... Granted, I never figured kids would be geocaching, but I am aware of modern society's intention to bring everything down to the an acceptable level for The Children... And I doubt that land managers would like the fact that I'm putting pretty good firestarting fuels in a box in the middle of their forests... So I do not put these type of items in caches anymore, just to avoid the hassle... I've just always thought that a cache might just some day come in handy for someone out in the wilderness -- perhaps lost, perhaps injured, otherwise needing something useful... It would be a bummer to find a bunch of McDonalds happy-meal toys and such in that case! icon_smile.gif

 

As for political / religious propaganda... It is perhaps tacky... It causes no harm though... I think most everyone would just look at it and laugh and say "whats up with this crap?" and ignore it if they object..

 

(personally I'd draw eyeglasses on any picture of Jesus I saw in a cache) icon_smile.gif

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Guest Mike_Teague

I used to put various ammo in caches (universal stuff like .223 and 9mm).. As well as fireworks (which ARE legal in this part of the state, Jeremy), and firestarter (trioxane)... In at least 1 case, having a stick of trioxane in a cache that I knew was only about a half mile down a nearby road has made an otherwise unfortunate camping trip into an enjoyable one by allowing us to light a fire in the rain and cook our dinner..

 

I tend to like useful (even if cheap) items in caches, myself... Granted, I never figured kids would be geocaching, but I am aware of modern society's intention to bring everything down to the an acceptable level for The Children... And I doubt that land managers would like the fact that I'm putting pretty good firestarting fuels in a box in the middle of their forests... So I do not put these type of items in caches anymore, just to avoid the hassle... I've just always thought that a cache might just some day come in handy for someone out in the wilderness -- perhaps lost, perhaps injured, otherwise needing something useful... It would be a bummer to find a bunch of McDonalds happy-meal toys and such in that case! icon_smile.gif

 

As for political / religious propaganda... It is perhaps tacky... It causes no harm though... I think most everyone would just look at it and laugh and say "whats up with this crap?" and ignore it if they object..

 

(personally I'd draw eyeglasses on any picture of Jesus I saw in a cache) icon_smile.gif

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Guest Mike_Teague

quote:
Originally posted by PneumaticDeath:

I am a ham operator (KB6HNH), and there's this unwritten rule among hams that when you're talking to somebody you don't know, you should stay away from any controversial subjects (like religion, politics. childrearing, etc.) The problem is, that only leaves:

  • How big/high/fancy is your antenna? (read those however you like icon_biggrin.gif)


 

I can attest to that!

 

Antenna discussion is 95% of all amateur radio traffic!

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Guest Mike_Teague

quote:
Originally posted by PneumaticDeath:

I am a ham operator (KB6HNH), and there's this unwritten rule among hams that when you're talking to somebody you don't know, you should stay away from any controversial subjects (like religion, politics. childrearing, etc.) The problem is, that only leaves:

  • How big/high/fancy is your antenna? (read those however you like icon_biggrin.gif)


 

I can attest to that!

 

Antenna discussion is 95% of all amateur radio traffic!

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Guest WJJagFan2

I placed the cache you're talking about. I didn't put the Book of Mormon in it, but I don't object to it being there.

 

Mormonism is the predominant religion in the State. I think it just as a touch of local flavor.

 

WJJagFan

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I would probably take the BOM in a cache I found, that way when they called at the door I could say " no thanks, I've already got one." On balance I would think bibles, korans, communist manifestos, democratic party platform documents, vote for Bloggs etc things are a bit tacky in a geocache. But flyers advertising my mapshop are fine. Hypocritical??

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Guest ClayJar

So, if it's best to stay away from religion and politics, does that mean I shouldn't put a nice fresh-burned Linux distribution in a cache? Debian might be a bit too close to religion, and the RedHat vs. Mandrake politics could flare up again. icon_wink.gif

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Guest ClayJar

So, if it's best to stay away from religion and politics, does that mean I shouldn't put a nice fresh-burned Linux distribution in a cache? Debian might be a bit too close to religion, and the RedHat vs. Mandrake politics could flare up again. icon_wink.gif

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Guest leaper64

one person's junk is another person's treasure. likewise, there are going to be divergent views on religion, politics, etc. this is simply a fact of life.

that being said, finding something of a satanic nature in a stash would offend me and i definitely would not would not want my children to be subjected to it. i would clean it up like the trash in the area.

trash in/trash out

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Guest brownbag

Thanks all.

 

I'll find out about Dave's offensive billboards offline. I've defused myself.

 

Thanks for the therapy.

 

This thread should die a quiet death at this point.

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