WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT?

June 5, 2003

Why is it so hard for some cachers to make sure that a cache they have just located is covered up when they are leaving? One of our caches, Annabelle’s cache, has been located by a non-geocacher and stolen by another. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK TO SEE IF THE CACHE IS WELL HIDDEN BEFORE LEAVING.

June 5, 2003

I worry myself silly about stuff like that. I think I've always rehidden a cache as good or better than I found it. What a terrible feeling to think someone's cache gets plundered because it was rehidden poorly.

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

June 5, 2003

Fy (my wife) is obsessive about this. Every time we cache, she will spend an extra one or two minutes checking the cache from all angles to ensure that absolutely nobody could accidentally see it. In fact, our only running Geocaching "argument" we have between us is how much time she spends at the cache checking it (I worry that she checks too much, and other people could see her - she worries that I would leave the cache too early and leave it accidentally exposed).

-J

38.2k · June 5, 2003

Some people seem to think they are doing the next cachers a favor by leaving it exposed. They must the rest of us are so dumb, we can't find it without their help.

What gets me more are the people who move it totally. I've gone out on maint visits and thought my cache was missing because it wasn't where I put it. Usually I find them after a while, but one was so far away, I went home and disabled the cache, only to get a find on it later that day. Turns out it was about 25 feet from where I placed it originally.

"Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois"

June 5, 2003

I am definitely at the other end of this spectrum. My wife and I found our first cache three weeks ago...I put the cache back while she viewed it from exactly the same angle we found it, until it was well hidden. I went home and lost sleep worrying about whether I had hid it well enough, then thought about going back to check it the next day. Luckily another cacher has found the cache and mentioned it was "well hidden by the previous cacher". It's hard to imagine not double and triple checking the re-hiding of the cache....

24.7k · June 5, 2003

When the cache owner puts a note on their page "Hide it as good as or better than you found it" people tend to comply.

Over time I think newbiew figure this out.

In the Boise area people seem to make a game of hiding it better than the last guy.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

June 5, 2003

Thanks Renegade...I'll add that info to the cache page!

June 5, 2003

Renegade,

Good thought, I left that out on my cache descriptions! I am going to edit them now

Thanks

Live to Cache... Cache to Live... & Doing it with a Meridian Platinum and Garmin Venture (backup)

38.2k · June 5, 2003

quote:
When the cache owner puts a note on their page "Hide it as good as or better than you found it" people tend to comply.

I usually put "hide it exactly as you found it". I don't want people hiding it better than I did either. I hid it that way for a good reason. Sometimes it's to keep people from tearing apart the area in their search. I've had a few instances where the cache was re-hidden much better than I intended. If I rated it a 1.5 difficulty and the next person hides it so well it becomes a 3 difficulty, that's also wrong.

When in doubt, use the cache owner's difficulty rating as a guide.

"Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois"

June 5, 2003

I don't have many pet peeves when it comes to caching. I let a lot of things roll of my back.

But this is certainly one that pushes my buttons.

I have one particular cache that is hidden in a very clever way. (A small cylindrical container about three inches in diameter that fits perfectly in the hollow part of a fallen log.

It's not rocket science. Once you hit the area and look around most finders figure out you have to look in the end of the log to find the cache.

Over the last year or so however the cache has been moved at least six times to a 'better location' in a near by abandoned tire half buried in the mud. (a more obvious hiding spot which I intentionally avoided).

I don't get it. It just takes a lot of nerve (in my opinion) for someone to take it upon themselves to replace a cache because they feel it was too hard.

Am I being unreasonable here?

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

June 5, 2003

On my first few cache finds I realized when trying to re-hide the cache, That I wasn't sure exactly how it was hidden. Now I make a point of taking a minute to examine how the cache is hidden before removing it for logging, so I can put it back the way I found it.

After several finds on a cache, it is hard to say how the hider intended it to be hid, did he mean to leave it completely uncovered or was that the last cacher? Should it be completely covered with dirt? Who knows?

I have wondered about the 'Hide the cache better than when you found it' statements I've seen on some caches. If that really happens, eventually it will be impossible to find.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

June 5, 2003

quote:
I usually put "hide it exactly as you found it".

I'm going to have to start doing that. I had a micro that was a small metal box painted black, hidden in a public place, but such that the structure around it and the shadows made it very hard to see unless you were standing very close and looking right at it. I was confused when a log entry indicated it was spotted from a location that must have been tens of metres away.

Well, there was a ziplock bag that was supposed to be inside the metal box, to protect the logbook etc. Turns out someone had put the box inside the bag, making it much more visible.

After fixing it up, it got a few more visitors before being stolen. I don't know if something similar happened again, but with it being rehidden incorrectly that one time, it was surprising it wasn't stolen sooner.

SylvrStorm

*** Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and they laugh at you. ***

2.3k · June 5, 2003

I hide mine pretty well, and the ones I find I try to hide better than I found them. Even so, several cachers have said they found mine "right out in the open." Geez!

Joel (joefrog)

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for ye are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

June 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

I usually put "hide it exactly as you found it".

That's no good at all; it doesn't address the problem. If someone found your 3 star cache totally exposed, you are telling them to leave it that way.

The page should tell people to rehide the cache to match its difficulty rating.

1.4k · June 5, 2003

I think what's happened on some of mine is that a newbie finds the cache, and in his or her excitement, fails to make a mental note of exactly where it was they found it. When they are done, they suddenly realize they don't have a clue where it was, so they just hide it somewhere.

In another case, a cacher ASSUMED the previous cacher had placed it in the wrong place, and replaced it where they thought it had originally been.

I think the vast majority of seasoned cachers take care to properly replace caches. The problem is with newbies who don't really know correct geo-etiquette.

I replace them like I found them, no easier, no harder, unless I found the cache right out in the open where it's in serious danger of plundering, in which case I hide it as best as I can and email the owner.

4.1k · June 5, 2003

I'm curious, did the non-geocacher become a cacher after happening on to your cache? How did you determine that a non-ceocacher was the thief?

Some of our caches are only partially hidden (but you have to be paying attention to find them.) with the express purpose of allowing others to get an introduction to geocaching.com.

These caches are not in high traffic areas and would be found by accident only by those who get out into the "wilds" and would therfore be of the type to enjoy Geocaaching.

remember you are not paranoid if they really are out to get you!

June 5, 2003

We usually put ''Please treat all caches as if they were your own and rehide them properly and in a stealthy manner...'' on our cache pages.

June 6, 2003

2oldfarts...I’m only assuming that a non-cacher took the cache but LOL you know what happens when you assume something!:0

38.2k · June 6, 2003

quote:
After several finds on a cache, it is hard to say how the hider intended it to be hid, did he mean to leave it completely uncovered or was that the last cacher? Should it be completely covered with dirt? Who knows?

When in doubt,use the difficulty rating as a guide. If it's two stars, obviously the owner didn't intend to leave the cache exposed. If it's a 1 star difficulty, the owner may well have wanted it partially, or fully exposed.

Also use common sense. If it's laying in the open in a high traffic area, it's unlikely the owner wanted it that way.

quote:
Well, there was a ziplock bag that was supposed to be inside the metal box, to protect the logbook etc. Turns out someone had put the box inside the bag, making it much more visible.

This has happened to several of my caches. What's with that?

quote:
quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:

I usually put "hide it exactly as you found it".

That's no good at all; it doesn't address the problem. If someone found your 3 star cache totally exposed, you are telling them to leave it that way.

If I hide it a certain way and each subsequent visitor hides it exactly the same way, problem solved.

June 6, 2003

My Creekside Nook cache is , along with 6 others now, located in a fairly large, easily accessable city park. This makes it a prime candidate for the newly initiated to try it first. Everytime the cache is found I stop by to check it and 95% of the time it is left in an easily viewed state. I don't let it bother me because I always check it. It has received over 60 visits in a little over half a year. It would have disappeared months ago if I didn't baby it so much. It would be nice if people would rehide it as well as they found it, but if they don't and you don't check on it, especially after someone logs it as a first or second find, then you shouldn't complain.

Wisdom comes with age... but sometimes age comes alone.

2.3k · June 6, 2003

I once went out to check on a cache of mine and found it sittiong on top of the rocks, completely exposed, instead of being re-hidden underneath. Checked the logs and found that a small child was allowed to retrieve and replace the cache after going through it. The parents should have been responsible enough to check on their kids hiding technique before just leaving the area!

1.1k · June 6, 2003

When I walk away from a cache, you are going to have at least as much trouble finding it as I did.

And the cache rating, cache location, cache page and style of container will/should dictate how you rehide a container.

logscaler

June 6, 2003

I have begun to write detailed re-hiding instructions on the inner cover of the physical logbook, so it would be possible to rehide the cache exactly as I intend each time. I also usually write something on the online cache description. This has reduced the problem. Let's educate the newbies, and remind the slob cachers.

June 6, 2003

A cacher in my area puts his signature sticker on the cache containers he finds. On regular-sized containers, this practice always struck me as a little rude, but not necessarily harmful. The sticker, however, is quite colorful and was placed in one instance on a steathily-hidden, black film container micro. The cache was later plundered. I was surprised that an experienced cacher wouldn't understand what a bad idea it was to put a sticker there. I suppose future notes should instruct cachers to replace the cache in the same condition they found it, as well as location.

8k · June 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OUTSID4EVR:
I have begun to write detailed re-hiding instructions on the inner cover of the physical logbook, so it would be possible to rehide the cache exactly as I intend each time. I also usually write something on the online cache description. This has reduced the problem. Let's educate the newbies, and remind the slob cachers.

This is a great idea. I have rehidden some caches where I thought that I was hiding them better. Then when I got home and decrypted the hint found out that I had hidden the cache so the hint was no longer useful . Now I either put the cache back exactly as I found it or I decrypt the hint in the field to see if it tells how the owner wanted the cache hidden

-- I found it in the last place I looked.

2.6k · June 6, 2003

I hade the cache as I found it. If every cacher hid it better than they found it, how long would it be before a level 2 hide became a level 4 or 5 hide?

The only excepetion is if I find the cache much easier than the rating suggests.

george

Wanna go for a ride?

June 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OUTSID4EVR:
I have begun to write detailed re-hiding instructions on the inner cover of the physical logbook, so it would be possible to rehide the cache exactly as I intend each time. I also usually write something on the online cache description. This has reduced the problem. Let's educate the newbies, and remind the slob cachers.

That's a great idea. my next cache hide, I am going to leave a laminated picture of how the cache should be hidden, with 'HIDE LIKE THIS' printed on it.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

June 7, 2003

I'm new to this, but the second cache that I found yesterday I thought wasn't hidden that well. It was in a grouping of large rocks and you could see it from two angles standing on the rocks. I could have crawled down deeper into the rocks to place it in a much more difficult to get to, and harder to see area. I decided to put it back exactly where I found it instead, because I thought that since this one someone elses idea, why move it a few almost vertical feet to make it harder.

Any opinions on this?

June 7, 2003

On re-hiding caches...I always make sure caches I find are rehidden so non-geocachers will not see them, regardless of the rating that is given to them. Even with 1/1 caches, they should not be in plain sight IMHO (even though the ratings mention this). A little camo will keep the cache from being disturbed by muggles. Most geocachers would be able to notice the obvious covering.

June 7, 2003

Silly me for thinking that everyone would re-hide the cache like no one had ever been there....I had to go back and add that note to each cache description....then, a somewhat similar problem... a new cacher in the area taking digital photos of the actual cache site and posting them...I sent a polite email saying that was not ok, and that I deleted the photo....I've had to delete a second photo....

May 11, 2004

I did maintenance checks on all of my caches this spring. 3 out of the 5 were sitting in the open. Once again why is it so hard for people to rehide a cache as good or better than what they have found it? I think I may start checking on my caches after each person has located them to see if they can follow simple directions. If they do not hide it as directed I may send of a nice little note to them. LOL Don't mind me I'm venting

May 11, 2004

Perhaps a set of photographs would help? I always have gone back to a cache a few days after placing it. I could have taken two or three digital pics, say, one with the cache in the space where it goes, one as the rock/bark/whatever is placed to hide it and then one from a few yards back. Laminate the pics or even just tape them into a plastic bag and no one has any excuse except for pure ignorance.....

May 11, 2004

I am getting ready to place my first cache soon. After reading this I can already see that this is a big problem. Pictures might help... I just don't see what is so hard about putting it back the way you found it. I have only found 3 so far and didn't even think that this might be a problem. Its not that hard to replace it just like you found it. Too bad it only takes one person to mess it up. Then even if every person after that replaces as they found it, it is still same screw up from the first person.....

5.9k · May 11, 2004

Just has one of my night caches stolen. Especially sad because of all the work I put into the unique cache container.

You can read my rant on the subject here.

Let me know and I'll unlock it and bump it back up.

2.3k · May 11, 2004

I think most cachers know to leave a cache exactly as they found it.

May 11, 2004

Seems like it would be common sense to the finder of the cache, but just to be sure I included a note on both the cache description on GC.com and on the cache itself to please hide everything again as well/better than it was found.

1.3k · May 11, 2004

I tend to leave it exactly as I found it.

If it's out in the open I may well try to hide it somewhere and I'll leave a note that says it was out in the open and explain that I hid the dang thing where I thought it was best.

If it belongs to Carleen P I use a walking stick to hide it as high as possible.

4.8k · May 11, 2004

If it belongs to Carleen P I use a walking stick to hide it as high as possible.

Oh so you are the reason I was glad to archive the pole cache that made me go out and jump with a stick to lower it every few days!!!!! :(

1.8k · May 12, 2004

Maybe I'm lucky, but nearly every time I've gone out on maintenance visits, my caches have been right where they're supposed to be, and properly camo'd. In occasional cases, the caches were exposed or had been moved due to environmental conditions (we get some nasty winds out here that will blow nearly any kind of coverings away) or, in one case, had been removed and dragged all over by an animal.

In a couple cases, previous cachers had moved the cache to a slightly different spot within a couple feet that I actually discovered was much better, so I left it. I have never seen any blatantly lazy replacings of my own caches.

When I see a cache that looks like it should be hidden better, I am not likely to hide it any differently unless it is clearly obvious that it should have been someplace else. I personally love the challenge of a well-hidden cache, but not everybody hides them with that intent and I think it's best to respect their intentions even if I'd have hidden it differently.

4k · May 12, 2004

Fy (my wife) is obsessive about this. Every time we cache, she will spend an extra one or two minutes checking the cache from all angles to ensure that absolutely nobody could accidentally see it. In fact, our only running Geocaching "argument" we have between us is how much time she spends at the cache checking it (I worry that she checks too much, and other people could see her - she worries that I would leave the cache too early and leave it accidentally exposed).<BR><BR>-J

I do the same thing. I will walk around the cache at various distances, double-checking to make sure it's not visible to anyone that may accidently wander through the area.....that's just common courtesy, a trait that many cachers don't seem to have.

WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT?

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