Cache Changes Name. Novelty gone?

[Jeremy]

Ok, here's a dilemma. This cache:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=14425

 

is a coffee shop that was called "Cafe' Cache'" and was approved as a cache before the "no commercial" cache rule was in effect. The fact that it was named "Cache'" also added an element of appropriateness.

 

Unfortunately the cafe has changed hands and the current owners want the cache listing to be changed to "Breaktime!" which is the new name for the cafe. Since it is no longer a "Cache" in name or in function, should it be archived?

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[umc]

I think the 'in name' part is implied. As far as the 'in function' part I saw nothing on the site that would indicate that it wasn't a real cache. It said that the cache was in plain sight and indicates so. Fine on all accounts so far. It seems as though people have enjoyed this cache so I see no reason to archive it but then again I really don't understand the whole commercial concept.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

Not so sure, Somewhat new Owner Of a Garmin GPS V Received on 10-03-02

[+Criminal]

Cafe is a generic term, "Breaktime!" is clearly a commercial one. Cafe Cache was clearly grandfathered with its previous name and owner. Since non of us could cache our favorite coffee shop, I have to vote no.

 

EDIT: Damnit UMC, I wanted to be first!

[The Soggy Bottom Boys]

You don't have to buy anything to find this cache, which is good. However, I would be reluctant to change the name because it sounds like the owner just wants some free publicity. If people wanna find this cache, they will go there regardless of the name of the cache.

 

I say don't let the owner of the coffee shop dictate a change. But, if the owner of the cache wants to change it in recognition of being allowed to place it there for free, so be it.

 

My $0.02.

[+Wander Lost]

I'd have to say archive it.

 

It's just not caching if you walk into a shop/store/cafe and the cache container is sitting on the counter in plain sight.

 

JMHO

 

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people??

 

[umc]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wander Lost:

I'd have to say archive it.

 

It's just not caching if you walk into a shop/store/cafe and the cache container is sitting on the counter in plain sight.

 

---

 

"It's just not caching" says who? I think that is a very cool and different way of doing the same thing. I have only 3 caches placed of which one is a virtual and the other two traditional one being a micro. I have been thinking about a city cache that would be maybe just a log book in a magnetic key case. We have no caches around here like that and I really like the idea of going in a shop or around a building for a cache. Its different and different would be good for caching.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

Not so sure, Somewhat new Owner Of a Garmin GPS V Received on 10-03-02

[FallenFaery]

Actually from what i read in the hint. The old coffeeshop wasn't even called Cafe' Cache. It was called Java Juno. Decrypt the hint and you'll see this.

[+Centaur]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Criminal:

Cafe is a generic term, "Breaktime!" is clearly a commercial one.

---

 

Breaktime! commercial? I think that can be just as generic as Cafe. See the folks lined up over by the water cooler?

 

Anyway.. Hmmmmmm.... Perhaps if the owner wanted to change the name to Breaktime cache?

 

It was grandfathered once... do we really want to archive a working cache? Should just changing its name remove its grandfathered status? I dont know.

As far as having a cache on grounds that can only be reached during certain times, there are already caches in amusement parks and cemetaries (same thing, but different) that also have limited access. I dont see the harm in a name change here, keeping the word Cache if possible.

 

YMMV

 

[+Borgt]

I think the hint should be changed (obviously), but nothing else.

[+trippy1976]

If it was grandfathered, let it be. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. We could call it a Breaktime! for instance and it'd still be the same thing as it was when it was called a rose

 

It's been out there for a while, changing the name of the cache isn't changing the cache. If they moved it down the street to another cafe, maybe then it should be archived. Heck, in this case - the name change can only serve to clarify which spot to go into.

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

[FallenFaery]

But wait. Why would the name of the cache be changed anyway? if you look at the hint the coffeeshop isn't called Cafe Cache it's called Java Juno. So like Paul and Suzanne said, the only thing that should be changed is the name of the coffeeshop in the hint. that should be easy enough, no? perhaps I'm too new to be pipping up like this. I'm doing it anyway

 

[This message was edited by Fallenfaery on December 03, 2002 at 09:41 PM.]

[+welch]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Unfortunately the cafe has changed hands and the current owners want the cache listing to be changed to "Breaktime!" which is the new name for the cafe.

---

So the new owners changed the name of the business, and then contacted scafativ asking the name be changed??

 

[Jeremy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by welch:

So the new owners changed the name of the business, and then contacted scafativ asking the name be changed??

---

 

Actually the new owners of the coffee shop contacted me directly, because the cache owners did not respond to emails.

 

I missed that it was Java Juno. Now I'm really confused.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+Borgt]

quote:

---

I missed that it was Java Juno. Now I'm really confused.

---

 

I stick by my previous post to change the hint, but not the cache name. It sounds like the new owners want it to become more commercial that it already is. Adding greater commercialism to the cache doesn't fall into any grandfathering policy, IMHO.

 

If the new owners don't like it, then it should be archived, although I'd hate to see that happen. It seems like the cache is enjoyed by those who find it.

 

Paul

[+seneca]

Now's your opportunity to archive this grandfather. Take it!

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

[+Blue Man]

I say leave it up to the cache owner. I don't see anything wrong with a cache like this, as long as the description let's people know what kind of cache (business) it really is. I wonder why the owner hasn't responded. Too strung out on espresso?

[+Sissy-n-CR]

Let the cache owner change it. It doesn't look like he's been very active recently, but ultimately he's the one responsible for it. If he doesn't respond in the appropriate amount of time allow it to be adopted. ...but not by the shop owners.

 

Letting the owner of the shop dictate what it's to be called is pure commercialism.

 

I like the "no commercialism" rule. Allowing caches in shops would only open the flood gates of people throwing together boxes and sitting them on their front counter.

 

Caches sponsored by a business is a different story, IMHO. A business, generally, will have better resources to stock a cache than an individual. I'd bet West Marine could stock some killer caches, as could Coke, Wendy's, etc.! But these caches would have to be more difficult than walking into your local store. They'd have to be "real" caches, out in the environment and everything.

 

CR

 

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Soggy Bottom Boys:

... I say don't let the owner of the coffee shop dictate a change. But, if the owner of the cache wants to change it in recognition of being allowed to place it there for free, so be it.

---

 

Well, I notice the owner of the cache hasn't taken the initiative to delete a couple of false finds, so I wonder how "involved" s/he is with the cache.

 

My vote goes for archiving the cache.

[+bigredmed]

The Grandfather clauses in most things only apply to the current owners or their family. I would say that this is now a commercial cache. You should "off 'em" according to the rules.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

[+kbraband]

This was a nice change-of-pace cache when we found it more than a year ago. The container was very cleverly decorated. The fact that you had to figure out which business to go in made it fun. I don't think the present business owner should be able to name it after his business. Too commercial and too easy. Definately not in the spirit of the original geocache.

 

[Pantalaimon]

Changing the name of the cache to "Breaktime!" seems to only increase the commercialism of this cache... and that already seems to be running rampant. Reading through the logs is like reading through the cafe's menu. Ninety percent of the people who find this cache become customers of the store, and a couple of those who didn't buy anything said they felt weird about not buying something.

 

If it stays the way it is, without a name change, I'd allow it to remain under the grandfather clause. Otherwise, the party's over.

 

Pan

 

Cachito ergo sum. I Geocache, therefore I am.

[+Harrald]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kbraband:

This was a nice change-of-pace cache when we found it more than a year ago. <>

 

Since the cache was placed on 2/8/2002 it would be tough to find it over a year ago.

 

On topic though, the cache owner has found ONE cache in the past year and seven in the

previous year. If they are not answering Emails and the owner of the business has shown

concern, then it’s time to archive it. It can be temporarily archived till the cache owner

contacts geocaching.com admins.

 

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

[+Geo-Johnson's]

If you change the name of the cache to 'breaktime', it'll definitely make it an easy find. As soon as you drive down the street, you'll see the name. If the cache has a different name, you at least have to use the GPS somewhat to find it. It would be like naming a normal cache '20 paces SW from parking space no.2'

 

My newbie vote is to leave the name, change the hint.........

 

Unless the new owners would like to make a donation to Geocache.com for advertising purposes.

 

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

[adrianjohn]

I think it smells of comercialism to me, I say no to the change of name. If it has to be, archive the cache. It seems from reading the posts the cache owner has lost interest in maintaining it.

[+Web-ling]

I say leave it IF the new owners of the business don't mind it being there AND the cache owner can be contacted, and they change the hint. If the owner of the cache cannot be contacted, consider it an abandoned cache and archive it.

 

[Case_198]

I think that if the new owners continue to support the cache and are not just doing it totally for advertisement purposes, then continue to grandfather it. However, there is no real way to tell the difference.

 

Just grandfather it and monitor it to see if they keep up the cache. If not, archive it.

 

==Case

[+welch]

Since its the business owners requesting the change, i say no way, thats commerical.

 

I also think if owner cant be reached the cache should be archived.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by welch:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Unfortunately the cafe has changed hands and the current owners want the cache listing to be changed to "Breaktime!" which is the new name for the cafe.

---

So the new owners changed the name of the business, and then contacted scafativ asking the name be changed??

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/22008_1700.gif http://www.gpgeocaching.com/

---

 

[+kbraband]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Harrald:

quote:

---

Originally posted by kbraband:

This was a nice change-of-pace cache when we found it more than a year ago. <>

 

Since the cache was placed on 2/8/2002 it would be tough to find it over a year ago.

 

---

 

Oops. Good catch. My mistake. We found it last February. Seems longer ago than that.

 

[+Criminal]

Jeremy, if the new shop owners will give out a free latte when you show them the cache page print out, let them do it. That should offset the increased business they'll get as a result of all this free advertising.

[+Team Teuton]

I'm new here, so maybe this has been discussed before, but why not allow commercial caches to exist, but charge them a reasonable fee for the service?

 

This would allow more caches in different places, and would provide even more income for the geocaching site.

 

I've been going in circles my whole life. May as well make a hobby of it.

[+ClayJar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul & Suzanne:

I stick by my previous post to change the hint, but not the cache name. It sounds like the new owners want it to become more commercial that it already is. Adding greater commercialism to the cache doesn't fall into any grandfathering policy, IMHO.

---

Well said.

I concur with this opinion. As it stood, it was a cache that happened to be in a commercial establishment (a grey area, to be sure, but grandfatherable), but turning it into literally a geocaching.com-sponsored ad (since it's GC.c that buys the bits) would be increasing the commercialism. The grandfathering should allow for decreases in commercialism, but in no way should allow for increases.

 

Oh, and regarding the paid commercial cache idea: If GC.c wants to do it, that's perfectly fine with me... as long as the IDs start with CC0001 and go on from there, just to draw a solid line between commercial caches (CC*) and geocaches (GC*).

[+SimonG]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aristocracker:

I'm new here, so maybe this has been discussed before, but why not allow commercial caches to exist, _but_ charge them a reasonable fee for the service?

 

This would allow more caches in different places, and would provide even more income for the geocaching site.

---

But the extra caches would be mostly lousy - where's the fun in following your GPSr into a load of shops? It's true that it would provide income for the site, but the site is worthless if geocaching stops being fun.

 

...............................................................................

Fnwu n ies galu rnseupyu cesf pucieut. Aj yahltu tagu aj sfug nys bhgi - sfuq'lu ajsup tshbupst, jal funwup't tnzu. - Sullq Rlnsyfuss

[+Team Teuton]

True, but, IMHO, virtuals are mostly lousy too, but there are plenty of people who hunt them. Give the commercials their own section, like benchmarks.

 

If a company wants to hide a cache, whether on or off their property, and are willing to pay the fee to have it posted to this site, again, why not?

 

I bet Home Depot would have some really neat cache goodies.

 

Or think of the fun we could have with a Victoria's Secret cache.

 

I've been going in circles my whole life. May as well make a hobby of it.

[+Geo-Johnson's]

We are inundated enough with commercialism. It's only a matter of time before the dentist bill will come to you with a Nike swoosh on the corner of the paper. It's insane!

 

We don't mind having to go into a cafe for a clue if the cafe doesn't expect us to purchase anything. But I don't want to end up at a hardware store or a mall every time I go caching.

 

Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.