Do you request permission to place a cache?

4.5k · April 21, 2002

If you do not know whether caching is allowed, do you request permission from the land manager before placing a cache on public property such as a city or state park.

April 22, 2002

I sent an e-mail to a Conservation Area asking permission to place a cache. It will be our 1st, and my kids are excited about hiding their first "treasure". It has been almost a month since I sent the e-mail and I have heard nothing! I figure I will give them exactly one month before sending a message on the status of my request. If they never answer me, what should I do next?

-Donna G.

April 22, 2002

I ask state park officials, but not city park officials - mainly 'cause they're much harder to get a hold of.

We've pretty much estabilished here that NPS is off limits, BLM is OK, National Forests depend on the ranger, State parks depend on the state and park ranger, city parks are ok, and public land other than that listed above is generally OK.

Of course, common sense would notice off the bat if a cache location was appropriate. IE: restricted public land (Military bases?) are big no-no's.

Of course, I ALWAYS include in my caches a note that says if my cache is placed on private land (and I suppose improper public land is implied), contact me, and I'll move it.

---------------

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

April 22, 2002

I have been of the opinion that it is easier to be forgiven than to get permission. However I have been very careful in my choice of spots. I guess if I thought it might be questionable but I really wanted to place one there, I would ask first.

Rusty...

Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

April 22, 2002

and don't plan to. I'd rather say "sorry" than say

"may I?" and run the risk of having them say "no". Bureaucracies are usually too full of C.Y.A. attitudes.

I would add the caveat that I also excercise good judgement when I place my geocaches. I'm not losing sleep over any of my placements.

- Seth!

April 22, 2002

I have no confidence in the average "land manager" in my area. The chances of getting a thoughtful response rather than a response rooted in a desire to cover thier own butts is nill to none. I always ask a property owner. I never would knowningly place a cache on private property however, if it is private property I would always ask.

But so far as public property goes, I'll still ask one of the owners...myself, and I almost always say yes.

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

April 22, 2002

I said sometimes--I started a thread in the Midwest forum on "illegal" caches in Minnesota, and a cacher who is also a park manager said that park management likes to know that there is a cache in their park. I've gotten non-answers from some parks--something along the lines of "we don't have a policy on caching, but we know there are caches in our park." My rule of thumb so far that if there are caches in some parks managed by the same organization, it's okay to place caches in other parks managed by the same organization. If not, then ask permission. Happy cachin'!!! 15T

www.1800goguard.com

April 22, 2002

In talking with the rangers of several state parks (all across the country) their overwhemling response (which kind of surprised me) once I explained geocaching to them was to go ahead and do it but not tell them. Basically they said that it doesn't sound like it's doing any harm so they wouldn't care. But to get something passed higher up probably wouldn't happen because of red tape, liability, etc.

April 22, 2002

So far I've placed one cache. I asked for permission and got it from the parks manager. They sent a ranger to the site to meet with me and address any concerns they might have. Everything was OK with them, so my cache got placed.

I would not even think about placing a cache without some kind of notice to the property owner/park manager. I'm of the opinion that is better for Geocaching in general to ask for permission than to ask for forgiveness. What's the worst they could say? Even if a particular cache were refused by the land manager, an alternative site or method of placement may be acceptable to them.

Bottom line, I'd always ask. If the answer is no, no skin off my back.

Other than that, I have no recollection, Senator.

April 22, 2002

I think I will feel better about placing a cache if I have permission from the proper authorities. I work for the Ministry of Natural Resources, so I hear a lot about "species at risk", "environmentally sensitive areas", etc. Some of the mapping info in our database is marked sensitive and is not shown on a map unless someone with proper access prints it out. There are several areas that are marked sensitive, but we do not know why, because they are not allowed to divulge what exactly is sensitive. It could be archaeological, a rare plant or vulnerable animal.

The local area managers know why these areas are sensitive and if they tell me I can't put a cache somewhere I will accept their answer, no questions asked. I have asked them to suggest a more appropriate spot if they feel the place I have picked is unappropriate. I hope this inclusion will bring the positive response I am looking for!

- Donna G.

38.2k · April 22, 2002

No, I don't. I do however choose my cache sites carefully to limit impact on the surrounding area.

And my name, home town and e-mail address are included on all of my caches.

April 23, 2002

yep

Though I've only placed a couple of caches, they were in Texas State Parks, and I have asked permission. Both times the rangers seemed quite open to the idea as long as they knew it was not in a sensitive natural or historical area. Last time I checked on one of the caches, I found that the rangers had found it and signed the log!

5k · April 23, 2002

I haven't yet placed my cache-in-planning, but I fully intend to get permission. We sure don't need the reputation of geocaching get tarnished by a cache that was placed illegally.

Jamie

April 23, 2002

But I have two that I'm considering (well 3, but one will be later in the year) and I'm going to ask permission on one and am undecided on the other.

The one I'll ask is in a Fish and Wildlife Area in Indiana and to be honest, I'm not even sure what the hiking policy is, let alone geocaching. I know there are no *official* hiking trails but they do allow hunting in season. I'm planning on heading up next week to talk with someone associated with the area to see what they have to say. I thought about calling but thought that maybe going in person and having information with me about geocaching to leave might show them that it is a legitimate sport. I'll also be sure to mention that ALL the state parks in the area have caches!

The one I'm undecided on would be in a county park. It is infrequently used and I've yet to run across another person on the trails. It'd be a nice beginner's-type cache and I know it wouldn't harm the environment if properly placed. I also know that if I ask first, it'll almost certainly be denied if the county naturalist has anything to do with it. I could be wrong but I really doubt it. I've gone back and forth on this many times and probably won't decide for sure until I visit the site and look for a good cache location. I'd prefer to have the park department's O.K. but would hate to see a good cache spot denied by a knee-jerk reaction to something *new*.

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

1.8k · April 23, 2002

I asked, once, and was told no. Then some other cacher placed their cache in the same park. I questioned the park owner, and was told "we're not going to worry about it."

I learned a lesson that day.

"If a boy has enough intelligence, he ought to go into the ministry, except that if when he enters college he is given to carousing, drinking, and wenching, then in that case he should enter the law." - _Harvard Student Review_, 1796

April 24, 2002

I answered sometimes. When I first started, it didn't really occur to me to ask for city parks as the ones we were finding were in city parks. Must not be a problem, right? Then as I was here a bit I started to see that there certainly were land management agencies that had a problem with cachers. And I started to realize that MOST cachers DID NOT get permission eithr before or after the fact.

And the parks folks that are non-responsive or outright contradictory (no, we don't allow geocaching, but no, we're not concerned about the one we are aware is in our park???) do themselves no favors by encouraging cachers to decide it's not worth the effort to ask. For example, Seth! said he finds it easier to say "sorry" than to ask. But I think it sets geocaching up to be banned when WE don't take the better part of valor and at least TRY to ASK. Bureaucrats don't tend to like surprises in their domains. If they suddenly become aware of caches, particularly if it's a bad experience, they may well have a knee-jerk reaction to become anti-cache. Sure, by asking you risk being told "NO." And then once told no you have a moral obligation to respect that answer. If your teenager took the car without asking permission because they knew they might be refused, would you excuse they simply because they offered an insincere "sorry?"

That said, what I did with my already placed caches was to write a letter to the parks directors of the cities in which they were placed. I got absolutely no response from two of the three cities. While it's certainly not an ideal situation I feel somewhat vindicated in that I tried. I plan to attempt some follow-up calls as well. I got a response that was pretty favorable from the city of Fort Worth when I pursued them, but they never completed the promised follow-up. The indication was that they had no problem with it but would like to know what type of containers were hidden in what location in case it was accidentally found and they got called on it. I need to find the name of the woman who was handling it and followup with her again. I have to say I'm not really worried about those cities now, but I will continue to ask new cities before I place. I have also had success asking the Army Corps of Engineers both before and after the fact. I have an actual hardcopy permit for one cache on ACE project lands and written permission (but not a permit form) for the other one. Fortunately, they have been quite open to the concept of caching. I have an idea for a cache on state park property. I will ask permission for that one before placing as well.

I say, ask... you never know when you may make a friend for geocaching!

T-storm

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

5k · April 24, 2002

T-S,

Thanks.. those were my thoughts exactly.

Jamie

1.1k · April 24, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by The Treasurer:
I'm of the opinion that is better for Geocaching in general to ask for permission than to ask for forgiveness. What's the worst they could say? Even if a particular cache were refused by the land manager, an alternative site or method of placement may be acceptable to them.

The worst that could happen? That the person you ask will be closed minded, and immediately say "No" without even listening to why it should be allowed...and then raise red flags among the park authorities about rumors that people are burying and abondoning items in the parks, and demand that an end needs to be put to it. They could start a campaign against Geocaching, without even understanding what it is. And once it's been banned, the road to getting it re-allowed will be an uphill one.

From my experience (not just with caching, but with ANYTHING), it's easiest for people to say "No" without even checking into it, so that's what they will usually do. I'm of the "ask forgiveness rather than permission" view...with the caveat that we should always use common sense and consideration when placing caches, of course. I also think we should advocate, practice (and take pictures of), the Cache In/Trash Out policy. Then, if/when the time comes to need permission, we can show positive examples of how Geocaching can not only have minimal impact, but it can actually have a positive impact.

If we ask for permission first, the burden is on us to convince them to allow it. If the cache is already there, they'll tend to ask themselves why they should demand its removal. If we've set a positive precedent, it's easier for them to allow it, than to explain why it must be removed. If we've been told No, then not only should we not place a cache, but any pre-existing caches should also be removed. I'd rather not cross the permission bridge until we have to...and preferably with some evidence in hand that it really ISN'T a bad thing.

-------

Join us at our first "geo-gathering" on 4/27/02!

April 24, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

The worst that could happen? That the person you ask will be closed minded, and immediately say "No" without even listening to why it should be allowed...and then raise red flags among the park authorities about rumors that people are burying and abondoning items in the parks, and demand that an end needs to be put to it. They could start a campaign against Geocaching, without even understanding what it is. And once it's been banned, the road to getting it re-allowed will be an uphill one.

From my experience (not just with caching, but with ANYTHING), it's easiest for people to say "No" without even checking into it, so that's what they will usually do. I'm of the "ask forgiveness rather than permission" view...with the caveat that we should always use common sense and consideration when placing caches, of course. I also think we should advocate, practice (and take pictures of), the Cache In/Trash Out policy. Then, if/when the time comes to need permission, we can show positive examples of how Geocaching can not only have minimal impact, but it can actually have a positive impact.

If we ask for permission first, the burden is on us to convince them to allow it. If the cache is already there, they'll tend to ask themselves why they should demand its removal. If we've set a positive precedent, it's easier for them to allow it, than to explain why it must be removed. If we've been told No, then not only should we not place a cache, but any pre-existing caches should also be removed. I'd rather not cross the permission bridge until we have to...and preferably with some evidence in hand that it really ISN'T a bad thing.

The following is my opinion and does not reflect the views of Geocaching.com or Groundspeak: With all due respect, the rumor mill is one very big reason to seek permission. If a parks manager believes that Geocaching means people digging up a park, the answer is going to be no. If that same manager realizes there is a cache in the park (and still has the belief that Gecacing = digging up the park), then the cache is going to get removed.

Tracy and I have placed three caches. One was placed before we got permission, and the other two were after. For the one that we didn't have permission on, it only took a few emails to explain Geocaching and answer questions. Within a week, we had permission for that cache, and any other for the parks in our town.

Sure, the burden for convincing the parks department to approve a new activity in a park does fall on the people participating in that activity.

Richar

April 24, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:
The worst that could happen? That the person you ask will be closed minded, and immediately say "No" without even listening to why it should be allowed...and then raise red flags among the park authorities about rumors that people are burying and abondoning items in the parks, and demand that an end needs to be put to it. They could start a campaign against Geocaching, without even understanding what it is. And once it's been banned, the road to getting it re-allowed will be an uphill one.

{cut}

Sorry, I disagree with this logic. I challenge you to give us a single example of where asking for permission to place a geocache has resulted in a scenario like you describe here. I'll bet you can't because the idea of someone going off half-cocked just because you asked for permission seems pretty far-fetched to me. The much more likely scenario, (and one we are seeing more and more) is people placing caches without permission, then when the responsible agency finds out about this unauthorized use, they make blanket decisions banning caching. This is what happened in our National Parks, what happened in Georgia State Parks, what happened in several cities and some National Forests, and what may soon happen in California.

It puzzles me that you understand that giving land use agencies fuel to ban caching is a bad idea, yet you fail to understand that not asking for permission first is the cardinal sin in their minds! (I refer to the following posts from another thread

quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:
Well put, Dan. The bottom line that I agree with on the original post is that we should all make a point to excercise caution and consideration when we place caches. If we don't want to be banned or regulated, the best way to avoid it is to be sure that we don't give them any fuel for their arguments.

Most of the land use agencies just want to know about it first. If they know about what is going on, they feel in control which is what they want. When you place caches behind their backs, you take that control away. When they find out about it, (and they will) the fact that this was going on behind their backs just makes them mad. That is what leads to bans.

Another thing: This idea that "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" may or may not be true, but my corollary is that actually getting forgiveness is much harder than permission. Think about it like this: Suppose you owned some rural forest land and someone wanted to ride his or her motorcycle, hunt, fish, etc. on your land. If they ask first, you might just say yes, and every one is happy. If they don't ask and just tresspass, you probably aren't going to be a happy landowner. If you confront them and they then ask for your permission to use your land, how likely are you to give that permission? I'd say not very, because you're likely ticked off at them for not asking first.

Another example is the stereotypical teenager wanting to use the family car. Would you tell your own teens that it's better to just take the car and ask for your forgiveness afterwards?

In my opinion, we've got to start being responsible for our actions. The days when this sport could "fly under the radar" of land use managers is fading. Bans such as those I mentioned above are going to continue if we continue down the course of "asking for forgiveness". (A strategy that seems to not be working very well.)

On another note: Locally, we've had good success getting permission to place caches. All the folks we have asked either didn't care one way or the other, or were quite enthusiastic about the idea of caches in their parks. I think it's much better to introduce geocaching to park managers on OUR terms instead of letting them find out about it through some other, less reliable source. That is where much of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about geocaching comes from. We get to tell our story when we ask for permission, so we can do a lot to allay those fears. In my opinion, that is the only way we can ensure this sport has a future.

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

1.1k · April 24, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Tecmage (R&T):

With all due respect, the rumor mill is one very big reason to seek permission. If a parks manager believes that Geocaching means people digging up a park, the answer is going to be no.

An issue that is important to me (and one that I've already made suggestions about in our newly forming Michigan Geocachers Organization group), that I didn't originally bring up here since I was already getting long winded, is the importance of putting together a 'presenation' package for informing park officials about Geocaching, and addressing any of the questions, concerns, or misconceptions that they are likely to have.

I'm not so much against asking for permission to place caches, as I am in not being prepared when we ask for that permission. Not to criticize anyone's abilities, but I think that amongst us, there are all ranges of eloquence and ability to present something like Geocaching in a manner which is likely to be well accepted by the authorities. I applaud the efforts that various individuals have made in putting together, and sharing with the group, presentations like I mentioned. (One example of a work in progress is here.)

My hesitance to recommend getting permission, is that if people don’t prepare well before asking for that permission, then a “No” answer means that what once was a grey area (one which we should respect with the utmost care in order for it not to backfire on us…see this related post), has now been banned to us. When I weigh the risks of advising everyone to ask permission (without having knowledge of what manner they will present their request) vs. advising a “don’t ask, don’t tell…but please use common sense!” policy, I still lean toward the latter.

Meanwhile, I am attempting to make headway towards pulling together a tool that can be made available to all for ensuring that we are able to shed a consistent (and positive) light on Geocaching when we do ask for permission.

quote:
If that same manager realizes there is a cache in the park (and still has the belief that Gecacing = digging up the park), then the cache is going to get removed.

If a park manager finds a cache that has been BURIED in a park, then by all means, he should remove it…and shame on the cacher who used poor taste to bury it! Those are the kinds of stunts that get our activity banned.

-------

Join us at our first "geo-gathering" on 4/27/02!

1.1k · April 24, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Thomason:
I challenge you [Zuckerruebensirup] to give us a single example of where asking for permission to place a geocache has resulted in a scenario like you describe here. [That the person you ask will be closed minded, and immediately say "No" without even listening to why it should be allowed...and then raise red flags among the park authorities about rumors that people are burying and abandoning items in the parks, and demand that an end needs to be put to it. They could start a campaign against Geocaching, without even understanding what it is] I'll bet you can't because the idea of someone going off half-cocked just because you asked for permission seems pretty far-fetched to me. The much more likely scenario, (and one we are seeing more and more) is people placing caches without permission, then when the responsible agency finds out about this unauthorized use, they make blanket decisions banning caching. This is what happened in our National Parks, what happened in Georgia State Parks, what happened in several cities and some National Forests, and what may soon happen in California.

No, I don't have an example off the top of my head. The question that was posed is what is the worst that "could" happen...my response was my interpretation of one possible consequence. Considering the currently existing blanket bans (that you mentioned), it certainly appears to be a feasible scenario.

quote:
It puzzles me that you understand that giving land use agencies fuel to ban caching is a bad idea, yet you fail to understand that not asking for permission first is _the_ cardinal sin in their minds!

If there was a rule in place against leaving caches in a park, and we did so without permission, of course it would (and should) upset them. But if there is no pre-existing rule, why should they get mad about our doing something we were never told NOT to?

I don't understand the logic in immediately making a ban on something non-destructive that wasn't previously disallowed before its discovery. If the authorities find a cache that was placed without permission, and they don’t like the fact that permission wasn’t asked, then why not simply establish a new rule to the effect of, "No placement of caches without prior authorization."?

After that, if people broke the rule, I could understand (at least to some extent) the reason for the blanket ban. (Perhaps this is what happened with our National Parks, and Georgia State Parks, several cities and some National Forests? They first ALLOWED managed Geocaching, but then had to retract their acceptance after people broke the rules? Again, I admit that I'm not familiar with the actual facts, so I can only guess. But I would be surprised if that was indeed the case.)

Please note that I never condoned the placement of caches in places that had been banned. My thought was that I’d like to avoid getting MORE places banned by bringing attention to ourselves, and forcing them to take a stand on whether to allow or not allow caches. (Officially allowing Geocaching puts a liability on them…which is one of the arguments for banning them.) I think we’ve all heard examples of people who’ve asked for permission (in places that there wasn’t a pre-existing rule one way or the other), and been told no. If there are any pre-existing caches in those areas, they are now technically illegal (and should be removed), whereas before, there was nothing that said they couldn’t be there.

From my perspective, that’s unfortunate.

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Thomason:
(I refer to the following posts from another thread

Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:
Well put, Dan. The bottom line that I agree with on the original post is that we should all make a point to exercise caution and consideration when we place caches. If we don't want to be banned or regulated, the best way to avoid it is to be sure that we don't give them any fuel for their arguments.

Yes, I still stand by that statement. Several responses to Ranger Rogers’s suggestion to Be careful where you place a cache, or they might be prohibited on all Parks, insinuated that the parks are “ours”, and that we can [paraphrase] “do whatever the heck we want to (and in) them.” If you review a history of the postings I’ve made on the various here, you’ll find that I have consistently been an advocate of using common sense when placing caches, and that we should always consider what responses will come of our actions (whether from the authorities, or by our setting an example for other cachers).

You make a good point about how they might react to finding a cache that they hadn’t known about before. And, while I argued that to simply ban all caching (after finding one considerately placed cache...simply because they are angry about not having been asked in advance) is not a fair response...it should obvious (from my above response to The Treasurer) that I am not beyond believing that they are capable of acting irrationally.

So your point is well taken, and I appreciate your making me think about it. (Perhaps we need to step up the priority of getting that 'Intro to Gecaching' package out there for everyone’s use, and try to convince Jeremy to post the links in a prominent place on the geocaching site. )

quote:
Another thing: This idea that "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" may or may not be true, but my corollary is that actually _getting_ forgiveness is much harder than permission.

I’d like to suggest that we do a study to compare how many cachers have:

1) Asked permission in advance and been denied, and then later successfully talked the authorities into changing their minds, and subsequently officially allowing Geocaching, vs. those who have

2) Placed a well-thought out, low-impact cache WITHOUT permission…and had it later discovered by authorities, who as a result, placed a ban on all Geocaching in their park/park system.

quote:
Locally, we've had good success getting permission to place caches. All the folks we have asked either didn't care one way or the other, or were quite enthusiastic about the idea of caches in their parks.

That’s great! I’ve heard stories that go both ways. Hopefully, with preparation, we can begin to hear more stories like yours.

quote:
I think it's much better to introduce geocaching to park managers on _OUR_ terms instead of letting them find out about it through some other, less reliable source. That is where much of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about geocaching comes from. We get to tell our story when we ask for permission, so we can do a lot to allay those fears. In my opinion, that is the only way we can ensure this sport has a future.

Your point is well taken. (And I hope you also can understand, at least to some extent, my own fears and misgivings.)

[This message was edited by Zuckerruebensirup on April 24, 2002 at 04:42 PM.]

April 24, 2002

I did ask 2x (one to my wife who is a park steward) other then that I have just not placed a cahce because I don't want to ask. I am currently planning a new type of cache (don't want to give anything away) that won't require permission.

May 8, 2002

and ask first. The county naturalist not only enthusiastically endorsed it, he has even placed one himself in one of the county nature preserves. He said the park department does request that you submit an informal request with coordinates and a description of your cache so they can approve it. He said the park I'm considering should be fine and even said off-trail hiking would be permitted. The other area I'm considering is managed by the state but he was able to give me a contact number for them as well.

I'm glad I went the "ask first" route but I guess that's easy to say since I received a favorable response. I do hope that geocachers are able to work within the system(s) in order to preserve both the environment and the game. Obviously there are park personnel that do not see these as mutually exclusive goals.

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

May 9, 2002

I have to admit that I voted "sometimes" in regard to caches's I've stashed in the past, but I would answer "always" to future placements. Here's a pole: Isn't where/permission the most important consideration in placing a cache? Isn't *not* getting permsission where permission is required the fasted way to have the cache removed and give geocaching a bad name?

I've been posting messages with the subject "Authorization (Permission) Database" in several threads and asking what the status of this effort is. All I get is blank stares. It seems so central to geocaching I can't believe no one here has picked up the ball an run with it. I've been directed to a locationless cache "Meet With Your Govenment Agents" but what I'm talking about is a lookup table of proptery name, who to contact, and guidelines. It would get off to a quick start with contibutions from everyone that has sought permssion. I propose that it become a a feature of geocaching.com; I would not want to have to go to yet another web site to get info so essential to playing by the rules.

- Doug Adomatis

Travel by GPS

May 12, 2002

There is a discussion regarding this subject at

Geocaching.com Discussions

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

- Doug Adomatis

Travel by GPS

May 12, 2002

I'm sensitive to the percieved image of geocachers as a group. I advocate (and do) 'cache in trash out' in discussions and promote it as I write about it.

I'm a firm believer in having clear and good intentions. Most geocachers have the simple good intention of geocaching and very few of the imaginary intentions dreamed up by beaureaucrats.

I don't like to hear we are denied access to our own lands because someone has to give an permission to a request they have little or no experience in. My hat is off to all the Rangers and custodians of the Lands that are educationg themselves in this great sport.

My vote is sometimes because I feel I don't need the permission from an agency to be responsible for my own actions on land I own.

I do ask private land owners for permission because THEY own it.

KernBob

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few. -- Shunryu Suzuki

Drive Fast, Take Chances. --(amongst others) Jon Bedford

May 12, 2002

my caches are on public BLM lands "I DON'T NEED PERMISION"

welcome to MY world!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

http://www.cachunuts.com

3.1k · May 13, 2002

And Mitey Mite usually says.... go ahead honey, oh did you finish your chores???

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

May 13, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DonnaG:
I think I will feel better about placing a cache if I have permission from the proper authorities. I work for the Ministry of Natural Resources, so I hear a lot about "species at risk", "environmentally sensitive areas", etc...

The local area managers know why these areas are sensitive and if they tell me I can't put a cache somewhere I will accept their answer, no questions asked. I have asked them to suggest a more appropriate spot if they feel the place I have picked is unappropriate. I hope this inclusion will bring the positive response I am looking for!

- Donna G.

In the past when I have requested permission for something from a bureaucratic organization, I have found great success with putting in a statement like "If I have not heard from you by such-and-so date, I will assume that permission is granted by your lack of response." If they are concerned at all about it, that gets them on their horse faster than anything! Nice part is, I've been lucky enough to get permission for what I was asking most of the time.

November 9, 2008

If you do not know whether caching is allowed, do you request permission from the land manager before placing a cache on public property such as a city or state park.

never

10.2k · November 9, 2008

If you do not know whether caching is allowed, do you request permission from the land manager before placing a cache on public property such as a city or state park.

never

Whoa, now there's a bump. Me too. If we're talking like a City or County Park, and there is no existing local geocaching policy, I go with the "frisbee rule". Of course there were hardly any geocaching policies anywhere when this thread was started.

5.3k · November 9, 2008

KD7MXI, dude what is going on? Did someone put something in your Cheerios?

November 9, 2008

KD7MXI, dude what is going on? Did someone put something in your Cheerios?

no

just bored :blink:

November 9, 2008

KD7MXI, dude what is going on? Did someone put something in your Cheerios?

no

just bored

Hie thee forth, and setteth ye a cache to tantalize, taunt & charm.

That, pilgrim, shall be thy salvation!

Forsooth.

Fivesooth, even!

~*

November 9, 2008

Interesting to read through the 6 year old thoughts on this subject.

Times have certainly changed and there's a lot more regulation now.

Being of a different era.....

I wrote my local reviewer several months prior to hiding my first. He gave me some contact information and I searched out some more.

About half of my caches are placed in areas that require permission. Before I placed them I talked to the Township Cache Approver (local P&R Recreation Superintendent). He has been nothing but helpful (He's a cacher himself), even found me a township map and gave me a list of good locations. He said his goal is to, "Have a cache in every township park." And the local reviewer knows that any caches placed here need to be approved so they don't get published until the 'placed with permission' logo is on the page. There's a form that has to be submitted and then the township guy goes out and checks the locations. In fact, he turned me down on one a couple of weeks ago but when I explained where it really is he met me there a couple of days later and gave the ok.

I also wrote to my reviewer to find out about parks a little farther out. Placed a couple after he said that the Philly City Parks had no approval system.

I just got a response back from the local Watershed Association about placing caches on their properties. They too are happy to have cachers on their trails and there's no form or process for them.

With so many caches getting archived by the Bomb Squad (Including one two weeks ago only about ten miles from here!), I have NO problem filling out a form for the Parks & Rec. Department!!!!

I'm curious to hear again from some of the folks that posted on this 6 years ago.

10.2k · November 9, 2008

Interesting to read through the 6 year old thoughts on this subject.

Times have certainly changed and there's a lot more regulation now.

Being of a different era.....

I wrote my local reviewer several months prior to hiding my first. He gave me some contact information and I searched out some more.

About half of my caches are placed in areas that require permission. Before I placed them I talked to the Township Cache Approver (local P&R Recreation Superintendent). He has been nothing but helpful (He's a cacher himself), even found me a township map and gave me a list of good locations. He said his goal is to, "Have a cache in every township park." And the local reviewer knows that any caches placed here need to be approved so they don't get published until the 'placed with permission' logo is on the page. There's a form that has to be submitted and then the township guy goes out and checks the locations. In fact, he turned me down on one a couple of weeks ago but when I explained where it really is he met me there a couple of days later and gave the ok.

I also wrote to my reviewer to find out about parks a little farther out. Placed a couple after he said that the Philly City Parks had no approval system.

I just got a response back from the local Watershed Association about placing caches on their properties. They too are happy to have cachers on their trails and there's no form or process for them.

With so many caches getting archived by the Bomb Squad (Including one two weeks ago only about ten miles from here!), I have NO problem filling out a form for the Parks & Rec. Department!!!!

I'm curious to hear again from some of the folks that posted on this 6 years ago.

Yeah, right. The only one you'll likely hear from is Snat. The rest of them are all long gone. I didn't realize Moosie Girl used to post to the forums though. Maybe some day, that will happen with me. But for now I can't keep my mouth shut.

Slightly off topic, care to post a link to the recent bomb squad cache?

I wasn't around when this thread was started (but sort of close). I believe there were a lot of proponents of the "frisbee rule" back then, as I mentioned in a previous post. Pretty much if you can play frisbee there without asking permission, it's OK to place a cache. I know it was pretty much a free-for-all in the New York State Parks back then (not that there were too many caches). Now, you'd have to be smoking crack if you think you could place one without a permit.

9.3k · November 9, 2008

do you request permission from the land manager before placing a cache on public property

When I need to, I will. Otherwise, I do not.

7.3k · November 10, 2008

I'm curious to hear again from some of the folks that posted on this 6 years ago.

Yeah, right. The only one you'll likely hear from is Snat. The rest of them are all long gone.

Actually, Seth! and travisl are still around and posting here and there.

Do you request permission to place a cache?

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