Permission Placing Caches

[+woodsters]

I've been wondering just how many people actually get permission to place caches. This is not a question of pointing fingers or anything. I haven't been seeking a place very hard. A month or so ago I was coming home from caching and saw this conservation trust land. I stopped by and picked up the literature there at the entrance to it. I looked it over a little and thought I would go to their website. While there, on the website, it said that they encourage hiking. So I thought wow, this would be a great place to put a cache and especially since this was not their only one, that I might get another one out as well. So I emailed them and stated what caching was about in case they didn't know and for permission to place one there. I even asked that if there were only certains areas they would want and whatever limitations they wanted. Basically asking to do it under their guidance. Well I received a reply back and the person who replied knew what it was. He stated that apparantly a while back that someone placed caches there without permission(must of been archived) and it concerned them as it will turn into geolitter and and hte impact it would place there. They were going to discuss it in a meeting a week later and last word was that they are still discussing it. I guess it's been 3 weeks or a month now. I will wait as long as it takes as I don't want to do anything against their wishes.

 

But it makes me wonder when I'm going after a cache, what all did the placer do to place it? Did they get permission like I was doing or did they just go ahead and place them with the chance that they may have to be removed?

 

So when you are placing a cache do you get permission?

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

[+SamLowrey]

Looks like you are going about it the right way.

[+Breaktrack]

Without question those who are going to place a traditional cache should get permission if it is required in order to place it. All of my traditional caches are placed on public beaches in Texas which require no permission. If I decide to place one elsewhere I cannot imagine placing it without permission. This is one reason I do mostly virtual caches on anything but public property.

 

So I voted *other* as I have my own little system worked out.

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[Dinoprophet]

I had a similar experience to yours shortly after I started. I went to a park service and asked what policy they had, if any. Fortunately, they were much more receptive than the park in your case seems to be. They asked if I'd be willing to help place some park-owned caches. Communication was slow for a while, but just the other day, Trippy1976 and I met with them again. They're really excited about geocaching. The person we spoke to even talked about listing any caches on their site that are in the system of parks, park-owned or otherwise.

 

As for your question, I didn't ask for permission with the two I have on state park land because at the time, the DNR site said there was no problem with geocaching on state land. Now they do encourage getting permission to keep caches out of sensitive areas. Other than the Game and Wildlife Area ban, which is really a federal issue, Michigan park systems have been great about caching.

 

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

[+Kite and Hawkeye]

I think it depends on the nature of the place. Run of the mill city park with nothing more endangered than house sparrows and dandelions? Probably not going to ask permission. Conservation trust land? I'd probably just not place a cache there at all, because no matter how many times you say "no bushwhacking" or "stay on the trail" some idiot will do it anyway, or someone will show up with coords but no printout and be unaware of any special warnings. But if I really, really wanted a cache in such a place, yes, I'd feel obliged to ask permission.

 

In most places, I feel no qualms hunting (did the placer ask to put that micro under the sidewalk bench? I doubt it). On the other hand, if I'm going in a place that advertises itself as an environmental sanctuary or breeding ground for some endangered critter, I'd feel much better about it if the hider indicated they had permission, and/or that the actual placement was okayed as harmless to the main mission of the place.

[+woodsters]

Breaktrack....so what type of places would one not need to get permission? A public place? What would be considered a public place? One that is owned by the ciyt, state, or Fed?

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

[+Breaktrack]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

Breaktrack....so what type of places would one not need to get permission? A public place? What would be considered a public place? One that is owned by the ciyt, state, or Fed?

 

Brian

 

_As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump_

---

 

Ah, well, luckily the beach areas and most of the accesible barrier islands are covered under what is called the *Texas Open Beaches Act* of some year, can't remember which. It basically allows open public use of the beaches in Texas, and basically, makes them a roadway as well. You can be arrested for DUI on Texas beaches.

 

That having been said, no permission is needed to do most things on Texas beaches. There are even lawsuits being filed against towns and counties that have tried to restrict driving and other activities the act allows, we'll see what happens there.

 

As for *public property*, that is pretty much what I was refering to as I have no intention of placing anywhere else for the forseeable future. There are public parks in Harris County where either no one is asking for permission, or none is required, as there are TONS oc caches in our parks. I've only had one conversation with one of the parks directors about Geocaching, and he had no idea what I was talking about... (there are about 22 caches in parks he is responsible for, but I didn't say a THING). None of them are mine, obviously.

 

So the definition of *public property*, for me at least, doesn't really extend any further than the back side of the barrier islands...LOL.

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[+Cincinnati Bearcaches]

The only cache I have placed so far was placed with permission on Ohio State Historical Society property, it took a few weeks, but I feel it was worth it. I took their input, and they had a couple of concerns which I addressed on the cache page.

[+briansnat]

If there is a policy in place that requires permission, or if its on private land then of course you should ask.

 

On the other hand, many land managers know about geocaching and give it their tacit approval by looking the other way. If you put them on the spot by demanding that they give their official sanction to the sport, you might not like the answer you'll get.

 

I know there have been some success stories, but they seem to be the exception.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

[+The Leprechauns]

Woodsters, I appreciate and thank you for your concern about obtaining permission. I have found that when I hide a cache in cooperation with the land manager, it usually winds up being a better hide. After all, they know their own property better than we do. And, whether hiding or seeking a cache, I just feel better knowing that we won't be questioned about our activity.

 

Again, in my own experience, professional land managers like conservation trusts and state parks tend to be more concerned about permission, AND more receptive to developing a policy that allows geocaching, with reasonable restrictions. The town parks are more likely to say "no way" because it is an easier answer. Many geocachers follow a rule of "don't ask, don't tell" for areas that are known NOT to have formal geocaching policies, while following the rules for places that DO have policies.

 

Woodsters, you have a golden opportunity here to influence this land trust right at the critical point when they are deciding on their geocaching policy. If your schedule permits, help to ensure a favorable decision by writing or calling again. Offer to answer any questions, to attend their meeting, to take someone on a cache hunt, or even place a cache tastefully on their property and take them to find it. Tell them about CITO and offer the possibility of a cleanup event. Point them at other land trusts like the ones in Berks County and Lancaster County, PA, that actually place their own caches for our benefit.

 

I worked with a land manager who had previously had to remove an unauthorized cache from the most ecologically sensitive portion of their park (a wildflower preserve). I organized a CITO event at their park, and hid four caches with permission. They are now one of the most pro-geocaching parks in the state. That for me was one of the best experiences I've had since I started playing this game.

 

All that being said, you can bet that none of my urban micros are placed with permission. I'd be surprised if ANYONE has contacted the public works department for permission to hide a micro under a park bench or light pole. So, I answered "other": I obtain permission whenever there is a professional land manager to deal with, and I am clandestine when it's an urban hide on public property.

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

[SLCDave]

I have 3 caches in the works, and I have asked permission for one, I was granted permission for the 2nd [as long as the condition of the area is improved (CITO)], and the third is a micro that I will be placing on my place of business. I emailed the Director of the Parks Dept. for the city I live in, gave a brief description of Geocaching and my intention to maintain the cache, and pull it if it becomes detrimental to the park. Still waiting to hear back, but I did just email him this morning.

 

"I'm 35 Years old, I am divorced, and I live in van down by the river!" - Matt Foley

[Fakk 2]

quote:

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I was granted permission for the 2nd [as long as the condition of the area is improved (CITO)],

---

 

umm? if the conditions aren't already nice, why should a cacher be held responsible to make it look better? Don't get me wrong, I believe in CITO, but if they are only going to let a cache in on the intent that people are to pick up trash, well maybe instead of adopting highways, they can just place caches along the side. Or maybe I am just misreading something wrong about that 2nd permission.

 

I bought a GPS. Now I get lost with style.

[+woodsters]

Thanks Leprechaun. The person from the trust in which I was talking about, knows caching very well and as a matter of fact they have been on the forums. It's a little confusing up here where we live at least to me. We just moved here in January. Here you have the the conservation trusts, town forests, state forests, state parks, wildlife managment areas, city parks and so on and so on. Down south all you saw were state parks, town/county parks, and the federal lands, as well as wildlife management areas. Up here there are slew of trails and they are used constantly. Down there, there are a few parks, but rarely used, depending on the area. It gets hard to decide as to what would be ok and what wouldn't be...lol

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

 

[This message was edited by Woodsters Outdoors on August 25, 2003 at 01:49 PM.]

[SLCDave]

quote:

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Or maybe I am just misreading something wrong about that 2nd permission.

---

 

No, I was unclear. They don't want the area looking worse, and HOPE it gets the area looking better. If it gets worse, I think I'll be the one cleaning the area!

 

"I'm 35 Years old, I am divorced, and I live in van down by the river!" - Matt Foley

[+Newenglandah]

I am currently working with a small group of land owners in my town to get permission " its looking good" I simply wrote them a letter and I am waiting for them to vote on it. They did ask if i could go to the board meeting to do a small presentation on g/c but I am working when they meet. I say if it is a land conservation area get the permission and asure them if they feel like it isn't working out, they can call you to archive the cache.....Make them aware of the trash in cache out and make sure they are aware we aren't a bunch of kids looking for a place to party and trash the place...

 

NOSEEUMS--High Protein Low Calorie unpacked trail snacks!!!!

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

 

[This message was edited by Natureboy1376 on August 25, 2003 at 03:27 PM.]

[+woodsters]

missed the even eh natureboy? Was my first event and was a blast. Wish you could of made it.

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

[+Renegade Knight]

Depends on the location.

[+Criminal]

I always ask, baaaaa, just like a sheep.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

[+Newenglandah]

dup

[+Polgara]

Permission in certain areas in Pennsylvania is required. I have a multi in a state owned environmental forest/park area which i have permission for.

 

The good thing is the forest manager was fine with me placing my cache. I had a meeting with him when i had everything ready, but BEFORE i actually placed the multi pieces. I marked on a trail map exactly where each piece was to go, which was very helpful cause he could see right away if one of my placements was near an unacceptable area. One of my locations was not accepted, however the forest manager quickly pointed out an even better spot. They also informed me that one of my spots was in a part of the forest being frequented by high school kids and would be subject to plundering. These things were very helpful, getting permission doesn't have to be painful, just go prepared. One thing I kept in mind was that I probably knew more about caching than the person i was talking to about this, and people feel vulnerable when the other party knows more than they do.

 

The down side is, I have heard from other cachers that no other caches are allowed to be put in this area, the rangers feel my multi cache is enough. I can't say I'm happy with that, but they are new to learning about this, and perhaps in the future they will open up some more as they learn more about caching.

 

My other cache also has permission from a park that is embracing geocaching.

 

"The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator."

- Louis Pasteur

[+woodsters]

Well I think it has come down to a position of Darned if you do and darned if you don't.

 

On one hand, one wants to go about it properly and ask permission. But what happens if there is another in the same area that didn't ask permission? There's a chance of theirs getting found out and then the authority in charge of the land getting it archived. Whats bad, is when you are in an area that has over 400 in a 35-40 mile range from wher you live. I'm in no hurry to place one, but I would like to experience at least one placement...lol

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

[+briansnat]

quote:

---

Well I think it has come down to a position of Darned if you do and darned if you don't.

---

 

I think as long as you use common sense, you'll be fine. If it's private property (or private preserves open to the public such as Nature Conservacy, Audubon, etc...) ask permission. Same for any public lands that require it.

 

But if there is nothing forbidding geocaching and no policy in place, don't force them to create one. We don't ask permission to mountain bike, camp, hike, or fly a kite. I don't see that geocaching is any different. And I'm sure that the ubiquitious (at least in NJ) tree stands that deer hunters build were constructed without permission and a geocache is far less intrusive.

 

Just make sure your contact info is prominently displayed on your cache and if someone has a problem with it, they will surely let you know.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

[+flask]

i had the conversation ONCE with th director of a local parks system, because i didn't want the parks people to be unpleasantly surprised, as can happen.

 

he was going to have all participants sign waivers, but i asked him to consider it as if my bike club were going to ride through.

 

he gave me some simple guidelines for their preferred areas, and i stick to them.

 

on private land, i ALWAYS get permission.

 

in some cases, as has been said before, i don't want to go with hat in hand asking when i would not ask for biking or kite flying... i DO try to use some sense.

 

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