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A logo for the rest of us?


The Leprechauns
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I believe this whole common logo thing is over the fact that a FEW people are minting coins and then selling them.

 

My understand was that as long as you aren't using the logo to sell something or promote GC in a badlight there really is no problem. and to that wit you have to leave the logo in it's square 4 color version with a TM mark and the website address near it. Right??

 

But I guess my real question is why are so many people worried about this? Are there that many of us miniting coins, that we need to have OUR Own logo??

 

This whole issue is over OUR right to mint coins to sell and GC tring to hold on to THIER rights to the logo and idenity?

 

So am I missing something??

 

sidenote: I hope this hasn't become(or is becoming) an US vs THEM between the community and our host benafactor. cause I am starting to see that too.

 

I feel GC is more then fair with how they let us use the logo.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

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I think it's really more about having an identifying mark that anyone can use for whatever they please. Not us vs. them. But if I want to make patches for a Geocaching event that has a registration fee - I don't want to have to worry about the legal implications of using the GC.com logo on those items.

 

I think this is all about recognizing and respecting the fact that the Groundspeak crew needs to maintain their standards for the logo usage, while providing a mark to the community as a whole.

 

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trippy1976

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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Well, the coin issue started it all, but what it really brought to light is that there wasn't really a logo for geocaching itself. We've all just been using (or abusing) the Groundspeak logo as the geocaching logo.

 

They've gladly tolerated that up to a point, but it seems to have reached a point that they risk losing their trademark due to derivative designs and unlicensed sales.

 

The reason coins really brought it to light, is that the cost of producing coins is so high (initial die costs of $250 to $800, plus a minimum quantity of 100 or so at $2 to $4 each, or less for 250 or more) that generally anyone who does so must share the expense (and coins) with others. But having a couple hundred coins minted and "sharing the expense" by keeping 25 or 50 or so, and selling the rest violates the trademark license, as it is a commercial use. Plus most people wanted to customize the logo to reflect their team or state, etc., which creates a derivative, which also risks the trademark.

 

In light of that, several people thought there should be a icon/token/symbol/logo for the sport that wasn't a trademark for anyone. That would provide a recognized basic logo that could be customized for teams, states, etc., without any legal encumbrances.

 

There has been some us-and-them type postings, but for the most part, I think the idea is they would co-exist peacefully. On my desk right in front of me is a drink cup with the mcdonalds logo and the Coca-Cola logo one above the other. McDonalds is the host, coke is the product. They work together.

 

I'd love to see a geocoin with the public domain logo on one side, and the Groundspeak logo on the other. I don't see how anyone could object if Groundspeak decided to mint and sell those coins. Likewise, however, the new logo would allow you to customize it into a team logo and have this printed or minted.

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Not that I don't love this thread, but five pages (maybe +) into it I'm wondering what the cutoff will be.

 

Does this just run until we all just get our favorite one tatooed on our left shoulder and meet in Atlanta for the tally? icon_wink.gif Or should we set a deadline for submissions and figure out how to make a final cut? Or do we have enough submissions already to start casting actual ballots somehow? How many licks to the center of a tootsie pop? icon_biggrin.gif

 

You get my drift. I'm pretty content with what we have as far as field of candidates. I'm also in favor of adopting only one (1) singular graphic. Otherwise we really run the risk of recognition dilution. So there's my two cents. I'm ready to get this party started, but wanted to (hopefully) at least start to figure out when closure can be reached.

 

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trippy1976

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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Here is a submission emailed to me By DirtRunner:

 

quote:
From Dirtrunner:

I've created a logo but I think it is way too involved for a coin but maybe

it could be used for stationary or unofficial mascot or something. I haven't named him, maybe we could have a thread for that or something. He looks like a Joe or Stan to me...


 

gpslogo.jpg

 

Last night as I lay in bed looking at the stars I thought 'Where the hell is the ceiling'?

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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaf:

I'm not sure about the colors, but they match my avatar and they are the same as in the Groundspeak logo.


 

Such nice artwork, yet he bases his colors on a cat. icon_redface.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by trippy1976:

Michigan Geocaching Organization would be happy to set up an area to host these graphics for consideration on our site.


 

That would be great of you, we can discuss it some more when we get the logos figured out.

 

quote:
Originally posted by trippy1976:

Not that I don't love this thread, but five pages (maybe +) into it I'm wondering what the cutoff will be.


 

If it's like most threads , there will be submissions a year from now! It's nice not to hurry, the people who read the forums are a small percentage of geocachers and many forum readers do not visit often, so a great submission may be here tomorrow. of course, we can't wait forever. By the looks of the Public Domain logo Thread, I think we're progressing nicely, it's been less than a week.

 

Last night as I lay in bed looking at the stars I thought 'Where the hell is the ceiling'?

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I think we should give it time. There may be talented and creative individuals out there who only hit the discussion groups on weekends, and I'm sure we don't want to miss out on their ideas.

 

After all, most of us had almost made our minds up (well, had some favorites, anyway) before we ever saw leatherman's submission. Now it is the #1 choice. I'd still like to see some more advanced designs incorporating variations of his logo. I'd like, for example, to see if the mudbug design could use it instead of the X. Maybe a little larger than their X, so it would be well recognizable.

 

Gustaf's #5 is still good, and I'm wondering if we could get the XG on it someway.

 

I expect we'll still see some more great ideas incorporating the XG into more advanced designs.

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quote:
Originally posted by Neuman:

The logo that works best for coinage, in my opinion, is http://www.geocities.com/graphixoutpost/logospage.html. The only problem I can foresee would be for those who wish to have numbered coins such as thehttp://www.geocoins.ca or, my own personal favorite, the http://www.txgeocoins.com As you can see on the web pages, the numbering is on the logo side. Though MountainMudbug's design has space at the bottom, the numbering is stamped in after the coins are minted and must be in a straight line.

Neuman


 

The numbering system for the Green Man geocoin at www.geocachetreasure.com is on the rim or edge (not the "heads" or "tails") of the coin. As a result, the numbers do not interfere with the design on either side. I don't know how difficult or expensive that it, but it's something to consider. Cache On, Team FISUR

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quote:
Originally posted by Clan Ferguson:

I believe this whole common logo thing is over the fact that a FEW people are minting coins and then selling them.

 

My understand was that as long as you aren't using the logo to sell something or promote GC in a badlight there really is no problem. and to that wit you have to leave the logo in it's square 4 color version with a TM mark and the website address near it. Right??

 

<>The problem is that we are facing a glut of geotrash in the caches, and by moving to coins or other signature items (which will likely have some logo on them), we can cut down on the trash and add a new element to the game (caching and trading sig items). While no one is too worried about using a logo on something they make, most of us are not artistic (with some obvious exceptions), and will need to rely on some company to make these items. They won't make them without either self-created art, PD art, or a copyright clearance.

 

The last case is the rub. Sooner or later, the lawyers will throw a wrench into the clearance process and some cacher will be stuck with a set up charge for custom art. These fees will usually double the cost of a small order.

 

 

sidenote: I hope this hasn't become(or is becoming) an US vs THEM between the community and our host benafactor. cause I am starting to see that too.

 

-


 

<>I don't think that this is a problem. I agree that Jeremy is being fair with the personal use clearance, and he is doing what any smart person would do by protecting his trademark, less it show up on shirts at Kmart...or some not so reasonable person copyrights it out from under him.

 

It really comes down to the cost issue of making any kind of professionally made signature item. Without the clearance, you either can't get them made, or you get stuck paying art charges that really become prohibitive. Cheers.

 

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

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Waiting is good. Waiting forever is not icon_wink.gif Speaking for only one group, whatever is decided here will likely be incorporated into our group's logo design by our members who submit things (see Rusty's previous post)(edit: Err... I guess it's in another thread. It's really good though, check it out). In the interest of that and other projects like it, I'd just like to put a date or something as a 'last day'. So I can help plan our activities around this decision if desired.

 

As for other designs incorporating the XG... doesn't that kind of make them automatically redundant. To me the XG is exactly what we need, something simple, recognizable, and extensible. Just by virtue of the requests to see the other logos try to incorporate it, we've confirmed that it is all of those.

 

If we are looking for other submissions, I'd prefer to see things along the lines of what Leatherman submitted. Something basic, simple, recognizable, easy to reproduce, and extensible.

 

--------

trippy1976

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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There are so many posts! But I'll answer a couple of points raised.

 

"The Language of Location" is a trademark we're in the process of registering. We've been using this for a while for Groundspeak. You'll know more about our direction of Groundspeak early next year. So please don't use it on a public domain logo.

 

No, we're not planning to post the logo on the site anywhere, or the logos you are creating. If it is a public domain logo, you the public can do whatever you want with it. However, I certainly have no problems with you discussing this in the forums.

 

Regarding the logo:

 

We consider the Geocaching.com logo the "brand" of geocaching that we promote through the site. I believe there always needs to be a central "body" that enforces the use of a logo, or it loses meaning. I originally learned my lessons from General Electric a few years back, about the strength and power of a logo.

 

Our brand of geocaching requires a positive relationship with our land managers, encourages a "family safe" nature of the sport, and encourages "Cache In Trash Out" (which this motto is not trademarked, so use it at will). We say no to tobacco, drugs and firearms in caches, and have a 0 tolerance policy for caches that have such items or encourage other illegal activities. We also try to keep advertising and commercial activities in caches (as well as other solicitations) to a minimum, to keep this a light and fun activity.

 

Regardless of what you may think, the strength of the logo is because of all these things. So is the positive reaction from many landowners, and the light and friendly environment that the sport seems to have. It could have easily gone underground or become plagued with more issues than it has now.

 

As a result we ask that the logo we created be honored by asking permission, and that the logo not be modified in any way, so that "brand" is easily identifiable by everyone. If someone wants to make their own personal item we simply ask that folks ask us first, and in almost all cases allow you to make whatever items you want, as long as you don't try to make a profit. It seemed pretty fair, but I guess I was wrong.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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If I ever run out of my limited-edition Team FISUR geocoins and decide to get some new coins, I'm going to be asking permission to use the official & pristine geocaching logo for one side of the coin. Nothing against the designs here, since many of them are fantastic, but I would want my geocoin to be associated with the geocaching.com brand. I would seriously consider using one of the public designs for the flip side if I could tweak it in a Team FISUR sort of way. But I'll have plenty of time to think about that. Cache On, FISUR

 

[This message was edited by FISUR on October 09, 2002 at 05:17 PM.]

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True, FISUR, there are other numbering options. My own personal preference, however, is to have the number on the face of the coin. It's tough enough having TWO sides to look at, now you want them to look at the edge?!?! icon_wink.gif Also, I am very happy with our "mint" and their only numbering option is on the face. Thanks for reminding me about geocachetreasure. They do make a very nice coin.

 

Neuman

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I have 2 more submissions via email from German cacher Named Nicola Straub (no geo user name was sent), but my software will not open the files, despite them being jpg. Peeking into the file, it says it was written with Adobe Photoshop. Can anyone check these out?

 

geologo_de.jpg - the German Flag-variation

 

geologo_bunt.jpg - a colourful/naive attempt

 

[EDIT] files were correctly resbubmitted. The first one is a real cool variation!

 

geologo_bunt.jpggeologo_de.jpg

 

Last night as I lay in bed looking at the stars I thought 'Where the hell is the ceiling'?

 

[This message was edited by brdad on October 10, 2002 at 04:39 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by brdad on October 10, 2002 at 04:41 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by brdad:

I have 2 more submissions via email from German cacher Named Nicola Straub (no geo user name was sent), but my software will not open the files, despite them being jpg. Peeking into the file, it says it was written with Adobe Photoshop. Can anyone check these out?

 

http://www.bytethebullet.com/geologo/geologo_de.jpg - the German Flag-variation

 

http://www.bytethebullet.com/geologo/geologo_bunt.jpg - a colourful/naive attempt

 

_Last night as I lay in bed looking at the stars I thought 'Where the hell is the ceiling'?_


 

Hi, these Files are in GIMP XCF format...

I'll try to convert them to jpg.

 

SIGINT

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

... If someone wants to make their own personal item we simply ask that folks ask us first, and in almost all cases allow you to make whatever items you want, as long as you don't try to make a profit. It seemed pretty fair, but I guess I was wrong.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location


 

No, I don't think you were wrong at all. Your requirements for use of your logo are more then fair. Generous in fact. I don't think this thing about the "public" logo casts any negative reflection on you or geocaching.com at all. I fully support your "brand" of geocaching. (I have a geocaching.com window decal proudly displayed on the back window of my car. [markwell's shaggy and scooby photo even shows it] icon_smile.gif ) The public logo thing, I believe, is just a way of having something folks can modify or tweak. (signature icon_smile.gif

Thanks for all your hard work and keep it up!

 

66427_2400.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by skydiver:

Cummon, admit it. Deep down, you _knew_ somebody was going to

http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=geocachingpd to be the first. icon_razz.gif

 

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselveswhat we seek is the very seeking of things."

_Blaise Pascal_ (16231662)-------------------


--------------------geol1.jpgI want some GxEO stickers.

 

Preparation, the first law to survival.

39197_400.jpg

Mokita!

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Originally posted by W8TVI:

Here is a "clean" version of it. I'm calling my version "GeoX". Maybe that way when refering to them. people will know they mean my verson and not leathermans icon_smile.gif

 

"clean"? if the other ones were seen as cult and gang symbols, what do you see in this one? Use your imagination.

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Okay, I've seen what people are doing with the "Gx" logo, and I've read the commentary and seen the "GeoX" logo.

 

Well, I'm no artist, but here's my take on a logo. I admit this is somewhat inspired by the previous logos, but I hope this is at least original enough to be useful... and now, without further delay... SmoothGx:

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

[This message was edited by ClayJar on October 14, 2002 at 08:18 PM.]

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WOW!!!

I read through every one of the posts regarding the creation of a logo. There were many themes running through the volume of comments. The two that struck me as most important can be summarized as follows.

 

FIRST: It is clearly in the interest of Jeremy to maintain, proprogate, promote and protect his logo that represents HIS view of GeoCaching, and is certainly synomous with HIS site.

 

SECOND: It is in OUR interest to develop a logo that can be in the public domain AND that will be embraced such that the majority of individuals will use it to represent the HUMAN side of the equation within the community.

 

In light of that I firmly believe that the family represented both in text and in one of the logos should be an integral part. Thus representing the family or group element of the sport.

 

With that in mine I have created two variations but don't know how to embed them into this message.

 

In essence, I took Gustaf #7 and overlayed the family from brdad #2 -- for the second one, I did the same family overlayed onto the Sissy-n-CR

 

Perhaps some helpful person could either tell me how to post an image, or do it for me.

 

SORRY I'VE JOINED YA'LL LATE.

 

BTW how do WE bring this to closure and then ALL embrace it and support it, so that it becomes OUR INDIVIDUAL LOGO with variations allowed.

 

--------------THREAD COMMENTS EXTRACTED THAT LED ME TO THE ABOVE CONCLUSIONS --------

 

TeamJiffy

Excellent thread! I am not an artist, but some thoughts to consider...

The general idea of 'easily recognizable but leaving room for customization' is a very powerful one.

Pubo

How about a geocaching mascot?

Acceptable Risk

…there's really only two basic elements to geocaching... A person and a goal, and the official logo portrays that exactly

SR & dboggny

… could also become as recognized as much as the Groundspeak geocaching symbol. there is no reason why we cant and shouldnt create it and use it

Jeremy Irish

… people hiking

brdad

…. And I like the ideo of the family as opposed to one hunter, how about you?

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First off, I must say the logo has pretty much been decided on by the general geocaching public as Leatherman's #1, or the "GX". Of course, anyone is free to use any image they want.

 

However, I'll be glad to add your images on my page as it may give teams ideas for personal logos.

 

As far as posting an image in the forums, they will first have to be uploaded to some web space somewhere on the net. Then just make your post, and click on the UBB code for image below the edit box, and type in the image location and it will show right up in your post.

 

If you have no web space, or do not know how to use it, email the pictures directly to me at the alternate email on my profile page and I will post them here and on my page for you.

 

We all have mental problems, it's just that some of us choose to show them.

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I like the designs based on the globe and the compass rose. They show a meaning and are related to the sport. To an outsider they describe something about the sport/game. I showed my eight year old geocaching daughter all of the ideas offered thus far. "GX ... yuck. What's supposed to mean?" The globe, Lat + Long, cardinal points, satelites, hiking, compass, etc. all represent our hobby. Our icon should be representational of it. When cachers and NONCACHERS see the logo it should easily and clearly represent geocaching and what we do. GX doesn't. Take some time to study marketing text. You may want to rethink. The litmus test is if an outsider understands the icon, then we've picked the right one. If it needs explaning TO AN OUTSIDER it's wrong.

 

Please don't slam me for this post. The forums are here for all opinions and facts.

 

Geonavigating since 1991

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quote:
Originally posted by MrMom:

I like the designs based on the globe and the compass rose. They show a meaning and are related to the sport. To an outsider they describe something about the sport/game. I showed my eight year old geocaching daughter all of the ideas offered thus far. "GX ... yuck. What's supposed to mean?" The globe, Lat + Long, cardinal points, satelites, hiking, compass, etc. all represent our hobby. Our icon should be representational of it. When cachers and NONCACHERS see the logo it should easily and clearly represent geocaching and what we do. GX doesn't. Take some time to study marketing text. You may want to rethink. The litmus test is if an outsider understands the icon, then we've picked the right one. If it needs explaning TO AN OUTSIDER it's wrong.

 

Please don't slam me for this post. The forums are here for all opinions and facts.

 

Geonavigating since 1991


 

GREAT INSIGHT icon_biggrin.gif -- The only thing I would add is that "Our" logo should represent the individual GeoCacher. After all the idea is to put it onto an exchange item of some sort. GeoToken would be my take on it and my perspective is that we need a place to find manfacturing resources, exchange place, info for the novice, etc. GeoToken will be my attempt to contribute to the sport icon_wink.gif.

CacheAholic (still trying to find an Avatar)

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I may be simple minded......(no flaming please?) But why do we all need to use the same logo? In reading other messages throughout the Groundspeak forum, it seems folks prefer to find personalized or signature items. What's wrong with everyone making their own coins? I would love to find special Geo-coins, but I don't want to find a bunch that are all the same. I'd like to find different ones........it just makes it more fun when the items that you're collecting are different. If one wants to reference Geocache.com on the back of their coins...then perhaps a small geocache.com icon and the web address? I would rather collect small tokens of others creativity........ I would like to dig through the treasures and find one that's different than the one I found last week....... icon_biggrin.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Johnson's:

"...I may be simple minded......(no flaming please?) But why do we all need to use the same logo? In reading other messages throughout the Groundspeak forum, it seems folks prefer to find personalized or signature items..."


 

If those who've adopted the GX logo thus far are any indication, it would appear that 'personalized' versions are hardly in short supply. That the basic GX design lends itself to such a wide range of variations on a common theme is, in itself, kind'a neat; you recognize the GX, yet you're also 'treated' to unique personalizations (the numbers of which are only limited by the imagination of those who use them).

 

And mine...? It's taken from the coat of arms for the Province of Ontario.

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My company, Spatial Minds, has created several variants of the Leatherman logo in a "Park Sign" style for inclusion in our software Overland Navigator.

 

We sincerely appreciate being able to use these symbols in our software, and want to make sure that our derivative works are also available for everyone to use.

 

They are all SVG files which is an open format that can be viewed by most web browsers, and edited with the freely available Inkscape vector drawing program or with commercial products such as Adobe Illustrator.

 

Geocache

 

Geocache Found

 

Letterbox Cache

 

Multi-Cache

 

Puzzle Cache

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