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umc

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Here by popular demand. I posted this in the complaint dept. thread on page 14 but Leprechaun felt it would do well on its own here. I agree with him.

 

This was posted by Rubbertoe in regards to leathermans thread about a L33T pic he found, the thread was locked:

quote:

I'm not sure if Jeremy was just in a bad mood or something when he was reading through the threads - but I didn't see any harm in that little "elite" thread. And, as for being off topic... I'd bet at least half of the posts in these forums aren't exactly about geocaching.

 

Yeah, I know... they are "his forums" and he can "do what he wants" and all that - but I just wanted to say I didn't really see the harm in that thread, that's all.


 

Here is my responce to the toes:

I would have to agree with the toe here. I see nothing wrong with things being off topic. For crying out loud if someone posts a thread that is on topic somebody else posts a link to where it has been discussed before and then the thread dies shortly after that. That whole thing is BS in my opinion, leave the dadgum threads be whether they have been discussed before or not. Quite honestly it seems as the number of that sort of "markwelling" went up the decline of these forums all together quickly followed. Now thats just an observation. My next thought is if 'everything' about geocaching has been discussed here before (so much so that no matter what a link can be placed that it has been discussed) then whats the point of discussing geocaching here anymore? On that note it only seems right to me that in order to have discussion that hasn't been covered its necessary to go OT. Now if OT threads are being closed/locked I think we will continue to see a drop of overall posting in the forums.

 

Two things need to happen; One, Leave OT threads be. I think people generally enjoy them and as long as they're harmless and not a flame war or spam fest then they are best left alone. Now I know that they are usually left alone but the "Can we cut down on the off-topic posts please?" comment/question sort of implies that leaving well enough alone may not be the case any more.

Two, Stop "markwelling" threads. If you don't want to discuss it then don't, pass the thread by. Since you know that it has been discussed before (maybe several times) why not make a possitive contribution since you know the outcome of the topic when it was discussed before. Posting a link is generally good to point out that there is valuable info in the thread that pertains to the new topic. Too much lately everyone (myself included) has been "markwelling" threads just to get to use that term and prove that they knew that it has been discussed before. Maybe its just me and my love of posting but I don't have a problem with discussing a topic several times in fact I should have a good answer for the new thread since I have seen it before and know the outcome. Thats more important than knowing where to find it. Yes I agree it is a good idea to do a search to find the info you want before posting, but its easier to just post it and have someone do the search for you (markwelling).

 

So in conclusion, leave the OT threads alone and stop markwelling every darn new post that comes threw these forums. The newbies that come in here asking their questions is a good thing and markwelling them more than likely just scares them away, hence no new discussion and a very BORING forum.

 

Thats my dimes worth and you can thank toe for bringing it up.

 

Lep, commented on my post in the complaint dept thread so I'm sure he will repost here. Thanks for the interest Lep.

 

All names above were made up to protect the innocent. icon_wink.gif

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

 

[This message was edited by umc on December 10, 2002 at 08:50 AM.]

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...about the group of friends who had been exchanging jokes among each other for so long that, rather than spend several minutes working up to an 'already known' punchline, they simply assigned each joke a number? Now, whenever they get together, the conversation sounds something like:

 

"33..."

"Oh ya? 47...!"

"Jeez, that was good! But remember 82...?!?"

 

About as engaging as a heavily Markwelled forum discussion, yes...?

 

ontario1.gif

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Since my name has been associated with the referencing of previously discussed material, I'll chime in - and I've said it before, but I won't link to it.

 

When I reference a previous thread, in most cases I am not trying to stifle the existing discussion. It is a matter of bringing historical perspective to the topic. If "Markwelling" has taken on a poor connotation, then I no longer want people to use the term "Markwelling." Markwelling should be something that adds interest to the discussion - not ends it.

 

That being said, if many people have asked many times, "Why doesn't my travel bug appear in the gallery," shouldn't we (A) reference them to the appropriate FAQ on that topic or (:D point them to answers that other Geocachers have mentioned in the past?

 

Typical Examples:

How did you find out about Geocaching?

Which GPS should I buy?

How do I add formatting to a cache page?

How can I find the coordinates of a street address?

 

And what about some topics like Geocaching Haiku? Notice that when Jeremy "Markwelled" the thread, it did not END the discussion, but it did allow me to revisit my favorite Geocaching Haiku, and spurred on other Japanese poetry forms.

 

Should these topics have a Markwellian reference? Why not?

 

Should the discussion end because someone has Markwelled a thread? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

If there is a definative answer in the previous thread, probably. But if it's something still fun to discuss - it's just the history. And ultimately, the posters themselves will decide which topics are worth repeating.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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Nice post UMC! Well thought out and brings up an important subject.

 

Threads about different people's questions don't need to be shot down by some person slapping a link to the person and tell them to go that all the time. Maybe some old topics that come back from the dead need to be rediscussed. Maybe it'll shed new light on the subject. When people post questions or bring up subjects, most of the time they want an answer and not some link or a off topic remark. They just want some answers or suggestions to the topic of hand. Not look back at their thread and see nothng but "Markwelled" links or smart remarks. Makings jokes are great, but only if the thread is meant to have jokes. Or how about when a newer person posts a thread another person shoots it down with an insult. This doesn't happen all the time, probably not even most of the time, but this is something that could deplete the forum if it keeps happening and I don't want to see something like that happen.

 

Faster than a dial-up Internet connection, stronger than any band nerd, look up at the sky! ....is it a bat..... no .....is it my grandma's mustache..... NO! IT'S RADMAN Version 2.0!

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quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

Did you ever hear the one...


 

Wait, jokes have been done before in another thread right here... oh never mind...

 

I agree that there's a probably a finite number of Geocaching-related topics to discuss. The problem with slapping a markwell on a thread though, is that we lose anything new that might be related to the subject that has happened in the months since the previous thread, or the insight that newer members might have to offer, or that people that were newbies when the old thread was posted and didn't share an opinion might have one now that they have some experience under their belts. (-1 point for run-on sentence.)

 

I think markwelling (not Markwell) needs to go the way of Miyako or whatever her name was.

 

And I second letting OT posts be unless they get out of hand.

 

- - - - -

Wisconsin Geocaching Association

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I don't see the Markwelling as necessarily stiffling to a topic. One can go look or not and come back and say whether the previous discussion was sufficient or not. I find Markwelling to be useful. I go look and sometimes spend a bit of time on some rabbit trail of threads but I come back and enjoy the current threads.

 

I think that the discussions sometimes get to be quite off topic but I certainly don't have to read them either.

 

I do enjoy the humor. Sometimes I want to laugh out loud. I certainly smile.

 

And sometimes I just want to say 'Why don't you guys just get along'. But then I assume that usually there are strong opinions but not bad feelings.

 

All that to say that I enjoy the forums.

 

Smitherington

David J. Brown icon_smile.gif

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umc, thanks for posting this for discussion. I've copied my response from the other thread, and also expanded on it a bit.

 

First off, I agree with you about off-topic. It has its place, so long as it's not out of hand. There are two types of OT: the difference between the occasional off-topic thread, vs. how serious, substantive threads tend to get off topic by the third post (there was a thread about that!). I try only to crap on a thread after it's already shot up, or if it is OT by nature. In other words, when constructive discussion is taking place, I try to save the bad jokes for someplace else. Unless I can't resist, so sometimes I'm just a jerk.

 

I've been thinking the same thing lately about all the Markwelling and I almost brought it up in IRC chat last night but I got flamed for being ON TOPIC. There are two kinds of Markwelling. The original one means polite references to prior discussions, which help answer a question or provide historical context. The way that Markwell does. NOBODY posting here is criticizing Markwell.... RIGHT? The other kind is more malicious, it is phrased in a way that suggests that the topic cannot be worth discussing because it was just discussed in September, or that the thread creator is an idiot for not running a search first. I've done both kinds, I would like to think that I'm helpful, but again, sometimes I am just a jerk. Heck, most recently I crapped on umc's thread.

 

Both the off-topic jokes and the second kind of linking to prior threads (let's not call that kind "Markwelling" anymore) are forum etiquette principles that ought to be kept in mind. More people would likely participate in the forums if they weren't worried about getting Markwelled, or if they didn't tire of the off-topic stuff. That being said, the humor is part of what makes the forums great, so don't stop it. Just try to keep a balance. We do far better here than in most other forums I've seen (and left).

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

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I agree with Markwell on this one. While new comments about old topics are desired, old comments about old topics can get boring.

 

I've dropped out of several forums because the same dozen questions kept coming up over, and over, and over. Eventually I stopped answering the questions and left the forums.

 

I have never looked at markwelling as saying "we don't want to discuss this anymore", though I am sure that it has happened once or twice. I look at it as helping newbies into a discussion by pointing out what has already been said to reduce repetition and to ease them into the existing conversation. (It's like entering a chat room and not knowing what is being discussed, or reading the last post of a thread and not bothering to read the entire thread before commenting.)

 

Having viewed Markwell's posts here for quite a while, I've noticed that they always seem to be helping people is some way. That's one thing I love about this forum -- so many people wanting to help.

 

For OT topics, maybe a forum specifically for OT discussion. But I can understand Jeremy's desire to keep those under control. After all, it costs money to store these comments.

 

As far as running out of topics, I don't think that will happen. Geocaching is evolving and the topics will evolve with it. I believe it was John Adams (or maybe Thomas Jefferson) that wanted to close the Patent Office because he said all the good ideas had already been invented (could someone please markwell me on that).

 

geospotter

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I just want it to be clear that I'm not saying all thread referencing is bad. I noted so in my first post to this thread.

 

quote:

Originally posted by the great one icon_biggrin.gif:

Posting a link is generally good to point out that there is valuable info in the thread that pertains to the new topic. Too much lately everyone (myself included) has been "markwelling" threads just to get to use that term and prove that they knew that it has been discussed before.


 

Like lep said, there are two types of "markwelling" going on here the one where the name came from which I think we all agree is good. The second that slams the thread creator or a poster is the one that needs to go away.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

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quote:

 

As far as running out of topics, I don't think that will happen. Geocaching is evolving and the topics will evolve with it. I believe it was John Adams (or maybe Thomas Jefferson) that wanted to close the Patent Office because he said all the good ideas had already been invented (could someone please markwell me on that).

 

geospotter


 

The proposed closing of the US Patent Office came much later than Jefferson or Adams. I recall it being about 1900 but cannot find reference to it now.

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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

This was posted by Rubbertoe in regards to leathermans thread about a L33T pic he found, the thread was locked:


*insert photo of me cautiously ducking, phearing negative attention*
quote:
Two things need to happen;

One, Leave OT threads be.

Two, Stop "markwelling" threads.


Yup - that sounds about right, although - here is my take when someone markwells a thread. I don't necessarily think that someone markwells a thread with the intention of ending the thread and thwarting conversation. I think it is more a matter of wanting to supply information. If someone asks a question that has been discussed before, someone will probably markwell the thread to that discussion - just so that person doesn't miss anything that might have been said before.

 

But yes, I can see how it would give the appearance of someone just "shooing" someone to another thread, instead of helping them. But, markwelling a thread really is helping, imho. icon_smile.gif

quote:
Maybe its just me and my love of posting but I don't have a problem with discussing a topic several times in fact I should have a good answer for the new thread since I have seen it before and know the outcome.
Ditto - I've referenced a few threads before myself, but I'm usually up for rehashing any conversation that anyone wants to have. It is in my nature to help, or at least sway people to think the way that I do. icon_wink.gif
quote:
Thats my dimes worth and you can thank toe for bringing it up.
If I suddenly vanish from the forums, you know why... and it'll be UMC's fault!! icon_razz.gif

(and I thought my complaint would go unnoticed in the lingering complaint thread... silly me) icon_biggrin.gif

 

I guess it must be a little bit harder than we realize, adding new forums to the pile here. There have been test posts sprinkling all the different forums for as long as I can recall, along with requests for a test-specific forum. icon_smile.gif Perhaps a whole OT forum section would be appreciated by J&TPTB as well as some other users. If this has already been discussed, someone can markwell me. icon_razz.gif

 

icon_wink.gif )

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on December 10, 2002 at 10:00 AM.]

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Hi all,

 

Usually, if a forum has enough members, and it continually building, there is a sort of "passing of the torch." Example... Member A explains to Member B. Now there are two members. Member C joins and asks the same quesion. Now, Member B can answer, and so on and so on. This way, the same question might be asked repetitively, but it's a different person answering it, so it's really no bother to them. They're just giving back to the community that helped them. Of course, if Member B is wrong in his "answer," then Member A might join in and offer some steering in the right direction. I've been on marine boards since '98. Trust me, ya'll haven't seen repetitive questions, yet. icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif Still, there's always a "new group" that has learned, and wants to share. Hey, links are great. But current discussion is good too. Sometimes people think links are out of date, or maybe they just want a warm fuzzy person to respond real time.

 

We have a section called the Archives. When a really good, detailed and helpful thread has run its course, we archive it into the appropriate section. And by the number of hits, people do read the archives.

 

I, too, think it's really helpful to not link most threads, and there does seem a zeal to do that here. Maybe it is the eagerness to show the "insider knowledge" of "that term." icon_wink.gif But check this out: A "newbie" might not know what "markwelled" means. Maybe he thinks that's some sort of sarcastic "wink and a nod" amongst members. I'll bet some do. Like, "Oh, we've been down that road before.... and it's been....MARKWELLED.

 

It's great to have a clicky term for your links, but explain that to a person. It's easy to see a newbie, check their post count. For an experienced forum person, finding information is a snap. Sometimes, we just want that real quick answer to a question, "Hey, my laptop doesn't have serial ports...." If the answer is "That's been markwelled" that's not too helpful. Of course, if the person knows that if they drag their mouse over the "term" and it gives them a link, that's great! But I can guarantee you the ignorance of my mom, who kinda likes the concept of geocaching. But she has never been on a forum. Many people haven't; geocaching is the first reason for them to "join" an online community.

 

Hopefully there's enough folks here to kind of keep a "rotation of answer duty" going on. I know I asked a question, and I now know the answer (about the laptop issue). "What kind of laptop doesn't have serial ports?" is not a helpful response. Now that I know the answer, and have researched it myself, I can answer that question, and even give a bit of insight on why a particular brand is better/more compatible. Seeing as ya'll were nice enough to answer me without just saying "It's been brought up before..." I'm eager to help with my turn in answering that "repetitive" question.

 

It sure seems like there's enough folks here (and growing) to provide answers to newbies. Heck, with the average number of posts here, I'd say most folks haven't answered the same question too many times. I don't know how many times I've answered the "same question," but it never bothers me, and if I don't have the time, someone else usually does, and doesn't mind. It would seem there's enough members here where nobody's shoulders should be weighed down too heavily.

 

Again, links are great stuff. But so is a "personal touch" especially to somebody new to your forum. Remember, ya'll want the sport to grow, and Groundspeak (in my opinion) is the greatest place for that growth to multiply. "linking" skills are great, but "personal" skills are even better. icon_wink.gif

 

I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer too many questions, but I'm getting there. Seeing as this is my #2 hobby, I'm sure it'll be no time before I'm well qualified to provide at least basic answers to repetitive questions. And, in keeping with my style, I'll try to give a personal answer even if I do have a great link to post. Again, links are great tools that can often seem like a "brush off" if a board full of members chooses to do little other than "markwell" everything under the moon. icon_wink.gif But a markwell in addition to a brief dialogue, even if it's just to tell the person, "Hey, this has been so well discussed, and the answer is still so current, that you should click on the markwell link to take you to a really thorough discussion we had on that very topic." That's a good markwell, and is not perceived as anything different.

 

Well, I'm not known for being brief if I give myself 5 minutes to type a response! LOL I could be wrong, and the "participating" membership here might be really low - which would explain the exasperation over the "same repeat questions." But if those who ask the question stick around, they should be cool about it and see if they can't help someone else out in turn. I understand (believe me, I see it!) that some folks are just takers - they only want their questions answered, and don't give the time to contribute to helping anyone else. But those folks should be few in number compared to those who really appreciate this forum and wish to help others.

 

I know, I know... Ya'll are thinking, "God help the newbie that asks GC a question - they're gonna get a book!!! LOL Well, if I didn't care - I wouldn't partake.

 

Cheers!

 

Grandmaster Cache

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quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:

Hi all,

 


 

I don't consider myself as having a short attention span. With that said, I've never gotten all the way through one of your verbose postings.

 

I do thank you for posting. Although verbose, my cursory scans of your voluminous contributions seem to relate an intelligent individual. Intelligence is always a welcome ingredient in the typically sabulous threads of these forums.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

I've never gotten all the way through one of your verbose postings.


 

I actually read it, and I'm glad I did. In my mind, GC summed up the issue perfectly.

 

Its not that everyone that markwells is meaning to be rude (although some surely are), its just that it can be seen as rude.

 

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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on the space.com message boards there is a forum called free space devoted entirely to off topic discussion. with something like that you can completely ignore ot items if you choose. as for "markwelling" i like it. it has help me on many occassions. it doesn't kill a thread in my opinion.

 

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I dread the day that a OT forum it put into place around here. I have had A LOT of experience with forums and have been apart of forums that had a General forum like this that was a catch all and a great place for everyone to loiter. OT forum goes into place everyone moves over there topics stay 'Off' and 'general' then the General forum dies. Don't see much point in that. Rules get tightened more than they need to be and people leave. Not to say that it would happen like that here but it does happen. There is no reason for an OT forum. Just place a OT in front of your thread title and if someone doesn't want to read it they don't have to. They can stay as on topic and happy as they want.

 

Now for "markwelling" killing a thread. It does, when done wrong. Think about this. The time when you see a "markwell" done right its to a educational thread/topic, ie. questions and facts. Now when its done wrong its to the OT threads/topics. So if I create a thread asking the age of everyone / someone "markwells" it / it dies. Nobody wants to give thier opinions any more and the person who "markwelled" didn't do so to help out. How can that be helping out if its just a general knowledge question. Hmmm, Example; I ask where everyone lives, someone "markwells" me to a thread that is over a year old and most of the people who responded to it are gone. WTF is the point? So to summerize I think "markwelling" come in two categories and they can be broken down even further into the OT and Info type. OT gets the BS and Info gets the goods.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

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quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:

The proposed closing of the US Patent Office came much later than Jefferson or Adams. I recall it being about 1900 but cannot find reference to it now.


 

1899. http://www.ideafinder.com/resource/archives/wow-duell.htm


 

This can't be the same as being Markwelled, the link is out of the forum [OTF]. Thank's for the input Fuzzy. I learned something.


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Markwelling is a good chance for someone to see what has been said before.

 

Basically I think when the thread is opinion based, it's generally worth rehashing every now and again. I know I change my mind on things after I've had time to test my original decision.

 

But when it's a clear cut answer type question, markwelling it is the right thing to do. I mean... unless there is a new an extraordinary way to set a background image on a cache page... what's the use in documenting that all over again? icon_smile.gif

 

And then there's those threads that just degenerate to the "Where do you get off [fill in action here]??" discussions. Those deserve to be shut down icon_smile.gif

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

I dread the day that a OT forum it put into place around here. I have had A LOT of experience with forums and have been apart of forums that had a General forum like this that was a catch all and a great place for everyone to loiter. OT forum goes into place everyone moves over there topics stay 'Off' and 'general' then the General forum dies. Don't see much point in that. Rules get tightened more than they need to be and people leave. Not to say that it would happen like that here but it does happen. There is no reason for an OT forum. Just place a OT in front of your thread title and if someone doesn't want to read it they don't have to. They can stay as on topic and happy as they want.


I feel the exact opposite. I would LOVE to see an off topic area. On those days when I've been away from the forums for a few days, and/or my time is limited, I just want to stay with geocaching related stuff. I love the OT stuff as much as the next guy (maybe more) but this IS a geocaching forum, and ALOT of people are looking for geocaching related info or discussion. I think if someone new comes to the general area, and has to read all thru threads about doots and varied other OT fat to find the meat, they may not come back.

That said, I think the old timers and regulars here become friends as time goes on, and like all friends, we have varied intrests that we also want to discus with our friends without having to find a different website for each new topic. Thats where a off topic area comes in handy.

 

quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Now for "markwelling" killing a thread. It does, when done wrong. Think about this. The time when you see a "markwell" done right its to a educational thread/topic, ie. questions and facts. Now when its done wrong its to the OT threads/topics. So if I create a thread asking the age of everyone / someone "markwells" it / it dies. Nobody wants to give thier opinions any more and the person who "markwelled" didn't do so to help out. How can that be helping out if its just a general knowledge question. Hmmm, Example; I ask where everyone lives, someone "markwells" me to a thread that is over a year old and most of the people who responded to it are gone. WTF is the point? So to summerize I think "markwelling" come in two categories and they can be broken down even further into the OT and Info type. OT gets the BS and Info gets the goods.


I agre with the others who say referencing an old thread is not always meant to kill the discussion. Sometimes maybe it is, and I think, like its been said before, thats fine. If its a cut and dried answer, why wait for everyone here to respond, when you have a whole discussion already answering your question layed out for you? Why take up storage space that costs money to say the exact same thing 1000 times?

As for your example of where everyone lives, its really a rather poor example to defend your argument. Alot of the people in those old threads ARE still active, they just got TIRED of answering the same questions over and over again. I still live in the same place I did a year ago, and I bet most of us do. If you didn't answer before, nows your chance. If you did, why add another hundred duplicate posts when you can just add one link?

You made a comment about alot of those people being gone. Alot of them are NOT gone, they just dont bother rehashing the same stuff over and over. How often do you see ClayJar post here? At one time, he posted as often as umc, but always helpful and on topic stuff. How about Broken Wing, Ron Streeter, Iron Chef, Mike Teagues and dozens of others who were a wealth of info when I first started? Hell, even Jeremy's posts now are usually limited to being about the website or moderating a thread. Very little about the SPORT. The nice thing about markwelling a thread, it gives new people a chance to see what the old timers think, to learn from them, even if the old timers themselves no longer post.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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This is a forum where things are discussed among people of varying experience not an encyclopedia written by gurus. People want to feel like they're contributing. If the forum becomes one big look-up program, who will want to visit? Posting is a way to inter-react and "see" eyeball to eyeball with others in real time. Also, people need to feel like mentors. It's the parenting thing in us. It's a human thing.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

...about the group of friends who had been exchanging jokes among each other for so long that, rather than spend several minutes working up to an 'already known' punchline, they simply assigned each joke a number? Now, whenever they get together, the conversation sounds something like:

 

"33..."

 


 

Sort of like the women office workers who agreed amongst themselves to use "fantastic" as code for "bs". Certain male co-workers were wondering why their usual macho posturing was being received with such rave reviews.

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umc-sorry you've had such bad experiences, but everytime i've been "markwelled" or read someone elses' "markwelling" it's been more than helpful. i've not noticed if the topic has died immediately or not, my question was answered & i was done with it. as for an off topic forum, i've only been on space.com a couple of weeks & so far so good, with the few exceptions of radical political postings but i just ignore them.

i don't think the general forum would die, isn't it for geocaching? and that topic isn't about to die anytime soon as far as i can see.

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Sometimes newbies post a question simply to introduce themselves to the forum. Many times I've seen them be rudely markwelled simply because the 'markweller' takes pleasure from this. Its a shame acutally.....Someone finds an activity they love, they get all excited, they read a lot of the forums and want to join in the comradery.

 

With that I will say......as a newbie, at first I didn't know what the term 'markwelled' meant. I figured it out quick enough. I have to admit that it did give me a somewhat negative image of Markwell. But after spending more time here, I realized that Markwell was actually markwelling in a nice way. No rudeness there......But I do think that if Markwells name is going to be used for that purpose, then perhaps we should do it nicely as Markwell could be judged by our rude responses.

 

By the way....is there some kind of prize available for the number of times we use a form of the word Markwell in a single post? icon_biggrin.gif

 

worried.gif Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners.

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The whole purpose of the World Wide Web is to provide links to material for easy access!

If you say you should not markwell (should it be capitalized?) threads, you might as well say you should not link to other web pages, but rather RETYPE the content on your own server!

 

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:

Keep on Markwelling my posts but don't criticize me if I have never seen it before.

 

tb


 

For myself, I often markwell in an effort to provide the most complete answer, and to point to interesting external references (is linking off-site still 'markwelling' or is that just'linking'?)

I only get nasty critical thoughts in mind when it appears that the poster chose to ignore the several pages of "READ THIS FIRST" and "YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE" links that they had to have past to get to the posting point, and rather decided that their time was more valuable than everyone elses and ask the group to duplicate previous effort.

 

ApK

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quote:
"33..."

"Oh ya? 47...!"

"Jeez, that was good! But remember 82...?!?"

 

About as engaging as a heavily Markwelled forum discussion, yes...?

 


 

Continue the analogy: How engaging is it to sit around telling the same jokes over and over again?

 

That's more the point, I think.

 

ApK

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On the subject of being "Markwelled" from a newbie standpoint, my contributions to this forum have being minimal compared to my learning from this forum. A few of my posts have been "Markwelled" but in a tactful sense. There was the link but also followed up with an answer to my question. The link only provided more info.

 

I can see where some would be offended as in a response that only refers to using the "search" option. It's almost like saying, "Don't be so #%*@'n lazy, do a search on the topic!" If time is taken to answer AND provide a link for more info, I believe it's constructive.

 

Garminator

 

"I seen Elvis making crop circles"......................Are the Soprano's on yet?

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quote:
Originally posted by Garminator:

 

If time is taken to answer AND provide a link for more info, I believe it's constructive.


 

I'm concernd a bit by the implied sense of entitlement in the suggestion "Everyone else should spend more time on me" vs. "I should spend more time using the resouces laid before me so as not to make everyone else waste their time."

 

This is a forum with archives and FAQs and search systems, rather than a real-time chat for a reason.

 

If someone chooses not to use those resources, I think couresty dictates that they have no right to expect anything more than a reference to their answer. The only meaningful difference on the part of the responder would be whether they respond more in the style of:

 

"Good question! Here's a link to good answer, and by the way, you might want to try the search page--there's probably a lot more about that here that would interest you!"

 

or like

 

"Duh! Here: read this link and next time do a search first!"

 

ApK

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quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

Of course, if a person doesn't wish to be troubled by answering a newbies question, someone else will do it. No one is asking anyone to be the answer machine.

 

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.


 

I see two distinct issues:

 

1. Whether as a responder, it's better to a)markwell, or :D answer again. c) not respond at all.

 

As you say, this is everyones choice to make, and I think a,b and to a lesser degree, c, all have merit.

 

2. Whether as a poster of a question, it's better to a) Read and search first, then post, :D post first with the expectation that you may be politely markwelled to your answer by someone who was kind enough to save you the effort of searching and hand you the results on silver platter in the form of a hyperlink, or c) post first and expect someone to type a complete personal response even if the topic has been done to death with nothing new to add.

 

I think that 'a' demonstrates self-reliance, intellegence, and consideration for others, 'b' is clearly understandable and acceptable, and 'c' is rude, selfish and lazy.

 

ApK

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quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

I disagree with most of your post for various reasons, but I'm too rude, selfish and lazy to go through them all at this time.

 

I've made my case on this subject in a previous thread. Will someone please markwell it?

 

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.


 

Ah, yes, you've illustrated a fourth responders option that I didn't consider: 1.d) post a snide comment with no useful information at all.

 

ApK

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Apk,

 

Don't take me wrong...I appreciate when I looking for info on a certain topic and get refered to another thread. I just don't like to be rudely (sp?) told to use the "search" function. You are correct, it's all in the presentation!

 

Garminator

 

"I seen Elvis making crop circles"......................Are the Soprano's on yet?

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quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

I see, but if you had done a search, you likely would have found the referenced info.


 

I'm not sure if you're making a serious attack on my specific posting or not, but in case you are:

 

1. I'm particpating in an active thread (which, by the way, umc was kind enough to markwell me to from the 'complaint department') and posting my opinions on the topic at hand, I'm not asking a question, and I certainly am not posting blindly...I've read the thread. So I have to assume that either I'm misunderstanding you or you're missunderstand the topic.

 

quote:

This brings up a good point. If you are rude, why do you expect anything but a rude response?


There's a couple interesting point to made here, involving the 'golden rule' and 'eye for an eye' and two wrongs don't make a right' etc. But the short answer is "I don't" and I don't think I was rude in the post you responded to. Do you? If so, why?

 

ApK

p.s. re: your avatar...are you an O-5?

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quote:
Originally posted by Garminator:

 

Don't take me wrong...I appreciate when I looking for info on a certain topic and get refered to another thread. I just don't like to be rudely (sp?) told to use the "search" function. You are correct, it's all in the presentation!


 

I don't blame you, and I won't say I haven't done it, but I am getting better lately at going back minutes later when the frustration has passed, and editing my reply to be less rude.

And sometimes I even manage to resist editing it down to a passive-aggressive "Oh, never mind!"

icon_smile.gif

ApK

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Originally posted by Garminator:

Apk,

 

Don't take me wrong...I appreciate when I looking for info on a certain topic and get refered to another thread. I just don't like to be rudely (sp?) told to use the "search" function. You are correct, it's all in the presentation!

 

QUOTE]

 

Not pointing any fingers here either! Sometimes when posting, words can be EASILY taken out of context.

 

Garminator

 

"I seen Elvis making crop circles"......................Are the Soprano's on yet?

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There's NOTHING WRONG with markwelling a thread. But if you have a desire to be helpful, and not just impress yourself with your own cleverness and show others in the treehouse that your were "FTSW" (first to show wit, in case you're not privy to that term, yet icon_wink.gif ) you'd not only markwell a thread, but then explain what "markwelling" is to a new hobbyist. There seems to be a RTBS (rush to be seclusive) for some of you. Have you enough friends, and not RFM (room for more)? A hobbyist will take an answer even if he has to research it. But not everybody is MI (markwell informed). I know some of you enjoy this hobby for the riddles and "encryptions," but heck, let a newcomer at least COB (come on board) before you indulge him with your IA (insider's advanatage). There, now take away the "explanations in parens" and this would have made no sense, correct? Well, that's how many of you appear to first timers. And if YOU don't care, or you think it's stupid... then maybe you're giving the same impression with your own greek lesson. icon_wink.gif

 

Hopefully that was brief enough for those of you who shudder when you walk by a bookstore. Amazing how some people can be rude and sarcastic, yet complain and get nasty if I respond in like fashion. If the best you can do is comment on how lengthy my posts are, that subject has already been markwelled - and you are serving little purpose other than to be redundant yourself. icon_biggrin.gif As long as my 10-year old can read my threads, and not get overwhelmed, I'll safely assume not everyone is GCC (Grandmaster Cache challenged). icon_biggrin.gif Of course, you can always just scroll right on past without commenting on the obvious - your own ability to recognize a lengthy post. icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

BTW, ApK: You said:

quote:
Continue the analogy: How engaging is it to sit around telling the same jokes over and over again?

 


 

Hopefully I can use this to illustrate my point: If the established members are sitting around telling the same jokes "over and over again" to each other, I can understand your analogy - it would make sense that you are intrigued. But if it's a new member, it's new news. Ya know? As for an analogy, Seinfeld tells the "same jokes over and over" but in different cities (read, different audiences).

 

Do you think forums should be so impersonable that people should first engage in your suggested "research" before asking a question? That's sad. Really sad. People join and remain at interactive forums where people aren't "too bothered" to answer a question. Nowhere is it written that it is "offending" to ask a question that has already been asked. I'm glad my first post (a question about a laptop cable) was answered politely by someone. I've been "politely" answering the same questions for years on marine forums. I enjoy the hobby, and enjoy giving back. If I'm irritated to answer a question, I don't answer - I'm hardly offended if someone asks a realtime question that has been answered repetitively. They want an answer, and if folks wanted to "research" something they'd look in an encyclopedia. These are interactive FORUMS not encyclopedic reference halls. Again, it's really cool to reference something, but it's just as nice to say a few kind words to a newcomer first and explain any tricky words you are boasting your knowledge of. icon_wink.gif

 

Grandmaster Cache

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